Senate Environment and Public Works (Sullivan): Hearings to examine the nomination of Kevin Lilly, of Texas, to be Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife.

Good morning, everybody. And it's a pleasure to be here. This morning we will hear from President Trump's nominee to be the Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife at the U.S. Department of Interior, Mr. Kevin Lilly. Welcome, Mr. Lilly, to the Environment and Public Works Committee. Mr. Lilly, I know you spent a considerable amount of time with the Energy and Resources Committee yesterday.

Given the nature of this position and our split jurisdictions, And so we're very appreciative that you're here with us today. Mr. Lilly brings decades of leadership experience gained from his time in the private sector, state government, the military, and most recently at the Department of Interior in the role as Assistant Secretary. He's been nominated to be the Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife, where he would provide senior leadership and policy leadership for both U.S. Fish and Wildlife and the National Park Service. This role includes oversight of the implementation of the Endangered Species Act, ESA, conservation and funding partnerships with states and landowners and stewardship of our national parks.

The Fish and Wildlife Service also participates in the federal permitting process through the ESA consultation process. This process has been long, inefficient, and costly for projects and communities across the country. Any assistant secretary confirmed to this position must believe that federal agencies can protect threatened and endangered species while also providing timely consultation, habitat, and incidental take decisions to ensure that important infrastructure projects can responsibly and efficiently move forward. These projects should not be held hostage because federal agencies failed to coordinate early or establish clear schedules or make necessary determinations. Striking an appropriate balance between conservation and beneficial economic development is essential for all states, and that's no different than the state of West Virginia, my home.

Oversight of the National Park Service is equally important in West Virginia. We have the New River Gorge National Park and Preserve. It's one of West Virginia's great natural resources and an important economic driver through tourism and recreation. I highly recommend it. The park has defied the failing attendance trends facing other national parks.

The New River Gorge posted a 9.5% increase in attendance in 2025, with visitor spending contributing over $100 million into the local economy in 2024. However, the park has only had— only has now an acting superintendent instead of a permanent one. The New River Gorge National Park needs a permanent superintendent to focus on improving the visitor experience and park operations, as well as working with surrounding communities to leverage the opportunities presented by the park's increasing attendance. I expect the Assistant Secretary to make filling this position a priority for the National Park Service. West Virginians are proud conservationists with a tradition of hunting, fishing, and outdoor recreation throughout our beautiful state.

The North American model of wild— wildlife conservation has been a great success in this country in ensuring we responsibly manage public resources for the future. Unique in this model is the role our hunters, anglers, and outdoor recreationists play not only in local conservation work, but also in funding and helping to deliver conservation programs. This model supports recreation and tourism opportunities in local communities. All across the country. Having leaders in Washington that appreciate these important partnerships is key to the continued success.

I look forward to hearing from our nominee about his experience and issues he will prioritize if confirmed to this position. And with that, I would like to recognize Ranking Member Whitehouse for his opening statement. Thank you very much, Chairman. We just had Brian Nesvik before the committee to discuss the Fish and Wildlife Service budget. We're now here to discuss the nomination of Mr. Nesvik's boss.

There are a few things from our last hearing that I believe are worth raising with Mr. Lilly. First, the way that the Department of the Interior and its bureaus in your jurisdiction have treated career staffers is unacceptable. You all have let the doggie boys chase out nearly 1,800 employees. Purging at least 530 biologists. I don't know what the biologists did to deserve that treatment.

And over 100 regional senior staff. The Park Service is suffering with parks and wildlife refuges understaffed and overburdened. I remind you that you'll be overseeing two bureaus, the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service. Which have jurisdiction over some of God's greatest creations. Last week, I displayed this chart of the biomass of mammals on Earth.

It's almost all humans, pets, and livestock. 5%, 5% Of mammal biomass is all that remains on this planet that is still wild. We're living through a biodiversity crash, often called a sixth mass extinction. This time, not brought on by an asteroid, but by human pollution, climate change, deforestation, habitat destruction, overexploitation, in a word, greed. The Department of Interior seems not to care.

In March, the Secretary, your boss, saw fit to exempt all Gulf of Mexico oil and gas activities from our foremost wildlife protection law, the Endangered Species Act, careless that the Gulf is home to the right whale, a species so endangered that there are only around 50 left. This administration will happily sacrifice an entire species on its altar of oil and gas interests. Meanwhile, you all pretend to care about the North Atlantic right whale. Rice's whale, right whale, what's the difference? Well, Rice's whale inhabits offshore oil and gas territory, and so can die.

The right whale inhabits offshore wind territory and is a useful tool to attack clean energy. You all use fake concern about one whale to suppress oil and gas's clean energy rival while sacrificing the other whale to fossil fuel. It is yet another example of corruption to help Trump's fossil fuel donors. Right now, after losing every case on your offshore wind shenanigans, y'all are using billions of taxpayer money to buy out fossil fuels' lower-cost competition, anything to prop up Trump's oil and gas donors. That should not be the primary mission of the Department of Interior.

I very much doubt you're equipped to be successful in the position for which you've been nominated based on your background and experience. You say you have a tremendous appreciation of the land, waters, and wildlife managed by the National Park Service. And the Fish and Wildlife Service. Appreciating things as you sacrifice them does not pass the test. Your predecessors, including from the first Trump administration, had decades of specialized experience.

You cannot replace decades of experience— of expertise with one year as acting, particularly when you've run out 530 of your biologists. And particularly not after a year like we've had. To eliminate an entire species, to sell wildlife refuges to private interests, to decrease enforcement of out-of-season hunting on federally owned lands, poaching for Pete's sake. This past year, each of these things has happened with the stroke of a pen. Mr. Lilly, if you're confirmed, the decisions you make in this role will affect our country's remaining wildlife, for years to come.

You should manage our wildlife refuges and parks for the good of all Americans and the species who call them home, not for deep-pocketed and politically connected polluters. I give you about a 2% shot. I hope I'm wrong. Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you. Senator Cruz was— is on his way to introduce the witness. So if we could wait just a minute or two, and if he doesn't go, we'll move forward.

Uh, the Senate, in which senators are on their way. On their way from the— what was that, Senator Kennedy? He was on his way, but he was at the Boston Airport. Yeah, wrong airport.

Welcome, Senator Cruz, to the EPW Committee. How do you like our new hearing room? We just— this is our first year back in it. It is lovely. Trying to be as good as Commerce.

Yeah. So I'm going to turn over to Senator Cruz to introduce our witness, Kevin Lilly. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the leniency. I had to gavel in in Commerce before running down here, so thank you for the flexibility.

Good morning, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Whitehouse, distinguished members of this committee. It is my privilege to introduce my friend Kevin Lilly, President Trump's nominee to serve as the next Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife at the Department of the Interior. Kevin is a Texas native who attended the University of Texas at Austin for his undergraduate studies and later earned his MBA from Southern Methodist University. During his time at the University of Texas, Kevin participated in ROTC, where he received a commission as a tank commander in the United States Army and later rose to the rank of captain. His service to Texas and our nation continued in the Texas State Guard, where he led the 8th Regiment as a colonel during Hurricane Harvey.

The 8th Regiment, I'd like to note, is known as, quote, "Terry's Texas Rangers," and was first led by Sam Houston. So this regiment in particular is very meaningful to the Lone Star State. Kevin later served as the Chairman of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, where he oversaw agents responsible for public safety and law enforcement at licensed establishments across Texas. In that role, he oversaw efforts to monitor and investigate human trafficking, money laundering, and narcotics trafficking activities. He also founded Avalon Advisors, LLC, the largest privately owned wealth management firm in Texas.

And I would note that Kevin spent many, many years as business partners with one of my closest friends on planet Earth. Today, Kevin serves as the Acting Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife. His experience serving both the state of Texas and our nation has made him a steady and reliable leader. Who understands the importance of cooperation among local, state, and federal governments. Kevin and his family share a deep love of the outdoors, including fishing and hunting, which has fostered a strong appreciation for our public lands.

Kevin is a proud Texan— I'm not sure there's any other kind— a proud American, a well-respected leader, and a lifelong conservative Republican who has dedicated himself to serving the people of Texas. His love for God, family, and country is evident through his continued public, public service, and I have no doubt that he will continue to lead with conviction and integrity as the Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife of the Department of the Interior. Kevin is a good man, and he will do an excellent job. I strongly encourage my colleagues to support his nomination. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Cruz. Appreciate you coming. I know you have a Commerce Committee meeting because I'm on your committee as well. So as the senator leaves, I will now ask the nominee, Mr. Lilly, to come forward to the witness table.

If you want to just remain standing, Mr. Lilly. Yeah. Before we move to an opening statement, I will now administer the oath for you to receive your sworn testimony. If you would raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give to this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

I do. Thank you. Let the record show that the witness has answered in the affirmative, and we will now hear from the nominee. Mr. Lilly, when you are ready, you You are recognized for 5 minutes, and thank you for being here.

Good morning, Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse, and members of the committee. I am both honored and humbled that President Trump has nominated me for Secretary— and for Secretary Bergum's trust in me to serve as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks at the Department of the Interior. I'm joined here today by my wife, Leslie, both of my sons, John and James, although James seems to be dealing with D.C. parking and is trying to find a place, so we'll expect him shortly, as well as several friends. Apparently he is here. Oh, is he?

Yes. Oh, okay. Sorry.

I am grateful for the unwavering support of my wife, Leslie. Throughout our many years together, her faith and resilience have always been my North Star. I'm also proud to be the father of two Eagle Scouts who now are both here, and of a remarkable daughter who has made us doting grandparents, and a son-in-law who is proudly serving in the U.S. military at the present time. Their commitment to service, leadership, and family has inspired me as much as I've tried to inspire them. Much of my life has been devoted to encouraging young people to grow in character and confidence, whether through my work as an Assistant Scoutmaster or as a youth baseball and softball coach.

These experiences reinforce my belief in mentorship, responsibility, and community. Our family's love of hunting and fishing, camping, has carried me across some of the most beautiful and diverse landscapes in our nation. Experiencing these places firsthand has deepened my appreciation for the public lands entrusted to us and strengthened my desire to expand access to them so that more Americans can share in the same sense of wonder, peace, and connection to the land. My faith has always guided my respect for creation, grounding my belief that natural resources are gifts to be cared for with humility and gratitude. The values that guide me today were shaped early in my life.

Growing up in federal housing through the military as the youngest of 5 taught me resilience, gratitude, and importance of hard work. My maternal grandparents immigrated from Sicily in search of opportunity. My grandfather was poor and uneducated, and he found work only as a street cleaner in New York City. My father, whose Irish ancestors came and immigrated to Boston, served in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, and as a police officer. My older brother served honorably in Vietnam before losing his life to the long-term effects of Agent Orange exposure.

These experiences gave me a deep understanding of hardship, strengthening my empathy for others and instilling in me a profound respect —for the strength of families and communities. These foundations have shaped my approach to service throughout my life. As Senator Cruz mentioned, first as a commissioned U.S. Army cavalry officer and tank commander, then as a Texas State Police Commissioner, and now in my work at the Department of the Interior. Over the past year, serving as a steward of America's natural resources has been more than a professional opportunity, it's been a calling. My faith, rooted in care, responsibility, and respect for creation, aligns naturally with work that protects public lands and wildlife.

I carry into this mission a sense of purpose rooted in humility and gratitude. I am also grateful for the dedicated career men and women that serve faithfully in the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service. I am inspired each day by their public service. I'm grateful for the opportunity to work with our tribal, state, local, and external partners, as well as our gateway communities and the hundreds of friends groups. This is a collaborative effort.

As Assistant Secretary, my focus will be straightforward: keeping our national parks open, safe, and properly staffed for the families who visit them; supporting the men and women of the Fish and Wildlife Service in their work to recover species and sustain healthy habitat; and confronting the deferred maintenance backlog that affects both visitor safety and the conditions of these treasured places. I will work hand in hand with our state, tribal, and local partners, and with the gateway communities whose livelihood depends on these lands, to advance both conservation and access.

In closing, I want to share a moment that defines this vision. After this year's Artemis II mission, the first time Americans flew around the moon in more than 50 years, the mission commander, who by his own account was not a religious man, described being so overwhelmed by the vision from space of our Earth illuminated by the sun that back aboard the recovery ship, he broke down in tears at the simple sight of a chaplain's cross. Recently, while at Yosemite National Park, I awoke to see the sun cresting above Half Dome, and I was also overwhelmed with that same sense of awe and grace. It is that moment that I hope each American can share in some way and experience, that our nation's children can find comfort not in the virtual world but in the Creator's world. Our national parks, our wildlife refuges, are the salvation of the American soul.

I commit to you and the committee I will remain an unwavering steward of the precious resources under my watch while ensuring Americans can enjoy public lands safely, responsibly, and fully today and for generations to come. Thank you again for this opportunity to appear before you, and I am prepared to answer your questions. Thank you, uh, thank you and welcome to your family, and, uh, thank you for being here. Thank you for your service to our country in more ways than one. Um, to begin this, we have 3 standing yes or no questions that, uh, we ask all of— all nominees who appear before us.

So I'm going to ask you these pretty straightforward questions. Do you agree, if confirmed, to appear before this committee or designated members of this committee and other appropriate committees of this Congress to provide information subject to appropriate and necessary security protections with respect to your responsibilities? Yes, ma'am. Do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings, documents, and electronic and other forms of communication of information are provided to this committee and its staff and other appropriate committee in a timely— timely is the key there— timely manner? Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. And finally, do you know of any matters which you may or may not have disclosed that may place you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed? No, ma'am. All right. With that, I am going to start with my round of questioning.

I am going to mention this morning I had an interesting experience with the National Park Service myself, and that I was given a sort of a preview of the undercroft of the Lincoln Memorial, which will be opening tomorrow to the public. It is an extremely interesting and extremely well-done presentation of how the monument was built.. And it will be a welcome respite for some visitors because it's air-conditioned in there and has great bathrooms, which all visitors are looking for. But it's a real testament, I think, to the National Park Service and their talents to have this done in 3 years. So I hope anybody listening makes sure that on a visit to Washington you make sure you do that since it's going to be open from 9 to 9.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was great. It was great. So recently the U.S. District Court of the District of Columbia vacated the biological opinion that governed consultations under the Endangered Species Act for coal mining activities in states that have primacy under SMACRA. You and I have already talked about this.

This leaves states like my state of West Virginia in tremendous limbo with respect to how the ESA reviews will be carried out. We did have Director Nesvik in front of the committee, as Senator Whitehouse mentioned, and I asked him to make the same commitment that I'm asking of you right now. Do I have your commitment to work with with the Office of Surface Mining, state regulators including the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection, and the mining industry on a path forward that allows ESA consultations to take place in an efficient manner and avoid unnecessary delays in the permitting process in the wake of this court decision? Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much.

So let's talk about permitting reform. As you know, we are in dire need of permitting reform. This is something we've said for years, and, uh, Senator Whitehouse and I are working with our staffs very diligently with the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. We need the ability to build critical infrastructure in a timely manner, but we need to do it the right way. And one of the biggest hurdles projects can face is under the ESA consultation.

In this position, how will you work with Director Nesvik to ensure that the implementation of the ESA protects endangered species without a stonewalling effect? Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Madam Chairman. That's a great question. And yes, I have spent a great deal of time with Director Nesvik as well as the Fish and Wildlife staff and other staff members within the Department of the Interior.

I think that the, the fundamental reality is that many things, while well-intended, become subject to the unintended consequences. Of their own action. I think that is reflective in the Endangered Species Act. I think when it was established in 1973 and passed, I believe at that time by unanimous vote, it was, as some people called it, a wildlife management process in which the objective was to recover and delist species. Consequently, the delisting of species should be received with great fanfare and celebration.

It should be something that we continue to work toward rather than something to battle against. And it seems that in some sort of a perverse sense that while we receive— when we have successes, we are immediately sued. That there are those that while we go through reasonable science, tremendous hours of biologists, of scientists, population managers, attorneys, the public input, when all the science has culminated to come up with an answer, and yet it can be whisked away through judicial review, that does not work toward the benefit, I think, of either the species or the American people. The only thing that it benefits are legal fees and the perpetual litigious nature that the ESA has become. So, to answer your question directly, ma'am, working toward ESA reform is a benefit to all, and I believe it is a bipartisan reality to deregulate, to protect our environment, to protect our species, no question, but also to be reasonable and not use it as a burden upon American industry, upon private landowners, upon tribal communities, and upon stakeholders.

Thank you. I want to turn briefly, I just have a minute left here, and this is not a brief topic, but it's the national parks. Obviously they are stellar. West Virginia's national park was signed into law by President Trump in 2020 as the latest park, the 63rd park, and I mentioned its successes. It's a real source of pride for all of us in our state.

How will you, using your professional background, use that to strengthen local economies and grow tourism in our national parks? And that's a big question for a 20-second answer. Sure. Well, I think it's a great question, and I think it leads to other concerns. My background, and if I have to stop, I guess I could answer it later, but Um, the National Park Service is one of the most complex ecosystems and organizations in the United States and in the United States government.

The multiple sources of revenue—capital leases, deferred maintenance, law enforcement, housing, concession contracts, trademarks, IP, bridges, tunnels, golf courses, dealing with gateway communities, and realizing that the balance that must exist in the collaboration with all of these varying components, which I have spent a career as a fiduciary dealing with and having some degree of experience in, and also working with these businesses that are so reliant upon the success of the parks, is extremely important. One of the things I do every time I go to a park, I make sure that I spend a tremendous amount of time in roundtables with local business, community, and tribal leaders. I want to hear directly from them how we can better serve one another to serve the American people, to make this not a mutually exclusive relationship, but an inclusive one. Thank you. Thank you.

Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much, Mr. Lilly. Thank you for joining me yesterday to discuss the issues the Interior Department is facing. Thank you for your service in our military.

I would like to talk with you about the reflecting pool, as we discussed yesterday. At the moment, the Park Police are making arrests around the Reflecting Pool.

The President has claimed that vandals, quoting him here, "took some form of knife or blade and put a 250-foot-long gash into the beautiful facade of what took so much work, competence, and money to build and complete." He increased the estimate to 300 feet later, then to 350 feet.

Insisting that it was, quoting him again, "cut and powerfully lifted off the surface, leaving very jagged, uneven edges." He was asked what proof there was of any of that, since it doesn't seem to be visible to any other person. And he said, "Well, you'll have to go see the Parks Department. They'll show it to you, or see the Secretary, but I saw it. We have pictures." He also said, "You'll see it in court." So you are police commissioner in Texas, I understand it?

Yes. When people visiting the Reflecting Pool are being arrested, handcuffed, and dragged away by your police officers, you'd like to think that they have proper probable cause to arrest someone. I grew up in the Foreign Service, and there are plenty of countries in which arrests made to satisfy a political leader's narrative that had no basis in fact was something that they did. The American system of justice has not operated that way. What can you tell me here today about what damage was done to the Reflecting Pool, where this 350-foot gash came from, and why tourists are being arrested.

What is the factual predicate for these arrests? Yes, sir. Thank you. And indeed, I have spent— as a son of a police officer as well as a police commissioner, I've spent virtually my entire life in and around the law enforcement industry or business community, rather. So you'd agree with me that arresting tourists to vindicate a political narrative, not because of any evidence of a crime, would be a wrong thing to do if that were what happened, correct?

Senator, the U.S. Park Police is one of the most extraordinary and historic police departments in the United States, founded in 1789. And in the year that I've had the opportunity and pleasure and privilege and honor to work with them, I have been amazingly impressed by their professionalism, their training, their discipline, their service, and their duty and service to this district and the people that live here. Yeah, which is why these incidents seem so aggravating. And I'd like to ask you to respond. And consequently, sir, I would say that, uh, and I I think that all people would agree that ensuring that law and order is maintained for anyone to apply, and I'm not saying that you are, that the U.S. Park Police in any way used political motivation to carry out their duties, I think would be unjust, um, and in some ways an egregious accusation.

So what's the predicate then? Was there in fact a 350-foot gash done by a vandal to the Reflecting Pool? The predicate, sir, is that I have no doubt that the police officers involved in the apprehensions of these individuals, of which I believe there were 5, were doing their duty, were enforcing the law appropriately, and I think that all of us should recognize and believe that vandalism of any kind— is an affront to civilized society. Yeah, but it hurts everyone. But Mr.

Lin, the question is, was there vandalism? Did someone cut a 350-foot gash in the reflecting pool? And what vandalism did these individuals do? Is it really vandalism to pick a piece of floating peeled paint out of the reflection pool? People have run through the reflecting pool in the past.

The president drove through the reflecting pool, apparently. Sir, I stand by my statement that the U.S. Park Police operated and conducted their business of defending, protecting this city in an appropriate manner. There was no malfeasance, nor was there any political motivation to it. And furthermore, sir, as you know, this is an ongoing investigation, and consequently I'm not in a position to share that information publicly. But once it is available publicly, I'm happy to meet with you.

I met with you yesterday, sir. I'll meet with you anytime. Was there or was there not a 350-foot gash in the reflecting pool. Senator, I stand by my— I stand by my statement, sir. Your statement doesn't answer the question.

I stand by my statement, sir. Okay. Don't want to answer the question. I can see why you don't want to answer the question. You're in a terrible position because the president has made up a 350-foot gash.

And unfortunately, now police officers are being put in the position of having to make arrests that I suspect are going to fare very badly in court. Because there's nothing about touching the Reflecting Pool or picking up a piece of floating, peeling paint that amounts to vandalism as a matter of law. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Senator Curtis.

Thank you. Mr. Lilly, I— it occurs to me as I think about my state, two-thirds of my state is owned by the federal government. I have counties that are over 94% federally owned. We have 5 national parks. You might be the most important nominee to come before me for many reasons.

And so I'm grateful for this opportunity. I did catch very carefully your claim of 2 Eagle Scouts. I also am the father of 2 Eagle Scouts, and I can tell you from my experience as fathers, we have no business taking credit for it because we all know it's the mother.

Who pushes them through those requirements. So to your wife, congratulations on your two Eagle Scouts. I appreciate the decision to end the time entry system at Arches National Park. Are you familiar with that? Were you involved in that?

Absolutely, sir. Yeah. For many Utah families and visitors, that system became an unnecessary barrier to accessing public lands. I myself waited in line for over an hour with the reservation a year or two ago. It's also created real challenges for our small businesses.

You've mentioned Gateway Communities a couple of times, and we know that the reservation portal doesn't really fix the problem. It manages scarcity rather than actually solving the problem. As we enter the busiest months of the year, rather than limiting access, our focus should be on managing demand, investing in infrastructure, and improving the visitors' experience. Most importantly, we need to keep our parks easily accessible to the public. Your description of growing up, of being out in the outdoors, was similar to mine.

It was my scouting experience that was actually part of that. And I think the more we make that accessible to people, the healthier we actually are as a society. Can you walk us through the specific steps the Department of Interior is taking to reduce congestion, improve traffic flow, and expand visitor experience at Arches so that more people can enjoy that park without waiting? Yes, sir. One of the things that I have mentioned many times is when I first arrived at the job, I told the staff, I told our politicals and our careers that we would never refer to an American citizen as a guest in a national park because they own it.

Our parks are owned by the American people, and consequently, it is incumbent upon us to ensure that Americans have access to their parks, which they own. And I believe in certain cases— sir, if you specifically mentioned Arches— that timed entry was actually a deterrent. In fact, the numbers play out. I was at Arches earlier this year. I met with Gateway community members.

I looked at the demographics, I looked at the economic analysis of the city of Moab, and I realized and was told from members of their county commission that Moab actually had a 500,000-person reduction in visitor attendance.

That is a catastrophic effect, and it was referred to as recessionary upon the city of Moab. That when they began timed entry, attendance and visitation in Moab decreased. Hotels, restaurants, concessionaires all suffered.

The way that we can combat the sort of perceived issue of congestion is, I think, we have used an extraordinary semi-pilot program in Yosemite, which has been incredibly successful. It involves technology. It involves utilization of fast lanes. It involves utilization of license readers. It involves— I'm not sure I can say this publicly— can I say the Chick-fil-A model?

But I guess we all know what that is. Using tablets in order to work to decrease the congestion and allow the more rapid access, ingress and egress, in and out of a park. And we saw that most recently at Yosemite and at Arches as well. And I'm just gonna jump in simply because of time. I would really like to engage with you.

You and I have the fortunate situation where a visit to Arches is actually part of our job. And so may I just express a desire to engage with you to solve these problems. Arches actually has another entry that's not not used. Understood. There are lots of choices.

The community cares deeply about preserving and protecting it, but they also care deeply about those 500,000 people who didn't have the experience that we know they could have had. So thank you for that commitment. I'll carry that back to them. Also would like to point out, throughout Utah, we have these gateway communities and would like to invite you to be equally engaged in all of our 5 national parks. And I'll meet you there.

My team will meet your team there. Anything that we can do to rectify this situation where we're, where we're preserving, protecting, but also optimizing these, these parks in our state would be very much appreciated. There's indeed a balance. Yes, sir. Yeah.

Thank you. And I apologize, I'm out of time. Senator Merkley. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and welcome, Mr. Lilly. And we were able to talk previously about the challenge of increasing pollinator plants.

Because in organized agriculture it's become more efficient, so there's fewer wild species, if you will. And I mentioned Lamar Alexander had spotlighted a program for roadside pollinator plants. And if I recall right, you mentioned in Texas there's a program for using roadsides as massive pollinator fields to help or pollinator plants in the side by the way. Did I catch that? Yes, sir.

The wildflower program which was initiated by Lady Bird Johnson is a staple feature of Texas along both our federal and state highways. So the, and I had commented on the fact that we face a huge drop in pollinators, natural pollinators. Including the monarch, and almost on the western monarch, almost disappeared, twice almost extinct. The, um, and that one idea that we had worked on and passed into law and funded was for groups to adopt sections of the interstate highway system to plant pollinator gardens, but also that some ranchers are working to in their, their grazelands, grazing lands that serve cattle, they're also scattering wildflower seeds. And I just would like to know if you'll continue to work with us to increase the pollinator population, if you will, of these wild species, and of course with a special interest on my part of the western monarch.

Yes, sir, and I also enjoyed spending time with you last week. In your office. And so certainly I'm intrigued by the programs that we used in the state of Texas and to see how we can think about those types of measures as it relates to this particular situation. So I'm happy to work with you, sir. Another issue that I mentioned was the Klamath Basin that has suffered a lot of drought and has high conflicting demands for water between farming, ranching, in lake with some endangered species, and in the Klamath River.

And that, that requires very conscientious effort to provide support for that Klamath Basin. We've done various programs to try to help make sure water is available when needed for ranching and farming, or to be able to seasonally retire certain water rights so ranchers don't, or farmers don't go out of business, also to improve the conditions in the lake. You know, algae has gotten a lot of attention in the reflecting pool, but algae with rising temperatures and rising amounts of phosphorus in our waters is an issue all across the country, a very, very difficult challenge. So I'd like to know if you've had a chance to examine any of that collaboration that's going on in the Klamath Basin and can be supportive of our efforts to help address those multiple needs. Yes, sir.

After our meeting, we did discuss that. I met with Director Nesvik on that specific topic. And as I mentioned, and as you know, sir, obviously water is an extraordinarily important issue at the Department of the Interior, especially in our Department of Water and Science, especially as it relates to water rights, irrigation.

And so absolutely, Senator, we are— I look forward to working with your staff and working with my team on this issue. Thank you. And one of the concerns I've had is whether the administration executes programs that are duly authorized and funded by Congress, because I feel like this is And, you know, it's a constitutional issue that the power of the purse rests with Congress. So occasionally, or sometimes more than occasionally, there have been programs where the administration has not distributed the funds. And one area that I'm particularly concerned about is that of the international affairs programs in the Fish and Wildlife Service.

And these are the multinational species conservation funding, The whole goal is for the United States to participate in programs that reduce the illegal trading of animal parts, which there is— some of the syndicates that are involved in drugs and terrorism also make money smuggling animal parts of rare species. And also to try to have a world for the generations to come that still have rhinos and orangutans and tigers and, and so forth. And so with this program, can you commit to making sure that, that the funds appropriated by Congress are duly dispersed in a timely fashion to the various groups that are working on these issues? Yes, Senator, I am aware of that issue and In my prior experience, working with trafficking was one of the most critical functions that we dealt with. Human trafficking, animal trafficking, all of it is run by cartels and is an enormous business.

I can commit to you also that we are working to enhance and increase our law enforcement capabilities as it relates to our special agents within the Fish and Wildlife. And I will work with your officer on this particular topic. Thank you. And specifically, I'm asking if you can make sure that the, the monies have been appropriated and authorized, will be timely dispersed, uh, and get to these international organizations for the work they're doing. I will work to that end.

Yes, thank you. Thank you. Uh, Senator Husted. Uh, thank you, Chairman Capito and, um, uh, Mr. Lilly. Great to have you here in the committee today.

I had the opportunity last week to visit Maumee Bay State Park with our, with our Ohio Department of Natural Resources Director Mary Mertz and Congressman Bob Latta, who's been very involved in issues regarding wildlife in Ohio and natural places. And I have been engaged in these issues pretty much my entire life, and I've seen how concerted efforts can change things for the better. We had a chance to meet with a bunch of sportsman's groups and environmental groups and habitat groups and you name it. And we recounted the number of fish species that are on the recovery, bird species, predator species who are— habitat recovery. A large amount of wetlands have been restored in Ohio to help serve as a buffer for nitrogen-phosphorus runoff from agriculture, to absorb more of that, to help make sure that we don't have algae blooms in Lake Erie.

But it also creates an enormous amount of new habitat for wildlife as as well. Um, uh, but we also know that, uh, there are also struggles with invasive species, invasive plants. There are certain types of plants that overtake these, these, these wetlands. Uh, and I was just, uh, and so you see all this progress, uh, that has been made through these concerted efforts. It's great.

And it's fantastic. You know it's possible. And in that context, I'm just interested, you know, what's your view as you look at the responsibility you have? You know, I'll talk about the Great Lakes, but across the country, and what more can we do to make sure that the people of our nation get a chance to experience more wild spaces, more public lands that are, that are fruitful for these types of recreational purposes? 'Cause there's huge economic benefit, but it's also a huge benefit to the quality of life.

Thank you, thank you for that question. I enjoyed spending time with you last week as well. I think it's sort of a multifaceted question. One, as it relates to the wetlands that you referred to and sort of the natural buffer that they provide, We continuously work with items such as varying grant programs, NACA grants, et cetera. We work with communities and states on their wetlands, on the preservation of wetlands.

I personally am a duck hunter, and so I recognize the importance of maintaining our flyways and maintaining our wetlands appropriately. Such that and so that it can continue to be enjoyed, not just for hunting, but also for recreation. I will tell you, one of the big, big things that we have up in that part of the state in Lake Erie is birdwatchers that come during the spring to see the enormous migration that we have of birds coming from back from Canada. Absolutely. The, the, the opportunity for birding is extraordinary, and this type of habitat improvement works toward that particular recreation.

And secondly, the other part of your question had to do with invasive species, so if I may, I'll answer that. Please, please. Invasive species, as you and I spoke about, the sea lampreys, especially the invasive carp, is an enormous problem, but it's not just in fish. It's also dealing with pythons in Florida. It's dealing with feral hogs in Texas, which is an enormous problem.

And one of the things that we are working on specifically to answer your question is the use of technology to combat that problem. Um, drone use, algorithmic research, tracking, statistical analysis, probability analysis, so that we can more efficiently locate where they are. This part of it is finding them, especially with four-legged invasive species. But then also to continue to work with the Fish and Wildlife Service in our robust invasive species program, which I'm fully supportive of and realize that it is a problem and it is one that we need to spend more time on. Yeah, I can just say that this is always a big— we've, you know, as an Ohioan, we've seen Lake Erie recover in amazing ways, and it's very successful.

We, you know, it's a very successful recovery, but we still have issues on issues like algae blooms and the phosphorus and nitrogen. But, but the big, big concern I can tell you is the invasive plants, the invasive the invasive lamprey, potentially the invasive Asian carp. All of those things are of great concern, and I just— I know you have a lot of demands, and I just ask that you keep your eye on how we can continue to protect against those challenges and continue to mitigate successfully as we have. Yes, sir, and we certainly do. Great, thank you.

Chairman Capito. Thank you. Senator Lummis is on her way, so I'll give her a minute or so, and I'll take license here to ask you something I mentioned in my opening statement, and it's back to my New River Gorge Park and Preserve. I mentioned that we hadn't really had a full-time superintendent, so we're getting off the ground, numerous visitors, challenges on infrastructure. It's not a very large by what we see in states like Utah and others, but it is exceedingly important and it needs the full attention of a full-time superintendent.

So I would hope that when you are confirmed, that I have your commitment that a new superintendent permanent that would just be focusing solely on this New River Gorge park and preserve would be something West Virginians could look forward to. Well, I'm honored that New River Gorge is the 63rd and most recent national park in the National Park Service. And I think your question is a great one for multiple reasons, not just for New River Gorge. I think it is the importance of leadership in an organization. One of the The benefits that I've had of having a bit of a diverse background is understanding that culture within any organization is critical, and creating a culture of excellence, responsibility, accountability always starts with the leaders on the ground.

And within the National Park Service, and certainly also with Fish and Wildlife and our refuge managers, A park superintendent can make a huge difference, and especially as it relates to parks that sometimes are remote. And so I have made a commitment to the Secretary and to the National Park Service that I'm taking a personal interest in our hiring and development of our leadership. And not just at the national— not just at the superintendent level, but the deputy superintendent levels as well. And so I completely agree that finding strong leadership for a park as important as yours to the people of West Virginia is paramount, and one that I am fully committed to endeavor toward. Thank you.

Senator Whitehouse, did you have another question? I'm giving Cynthia that. Mr. Lilly, you know, if there's been any request made to the Interior Office of Inspector General to look into the situation at the Reflecting Pool, how the contracts were let, how the contracts were administered, what actually happened, was it the hydrogen peroxide that tore up the paint? What is going on over there?

Seems like it's IG material. You do, I think, have an inspector general. Has any referral been made to the Inspector General to have an independent set of eyeballs? Thank you. We do indeed have an Inspector General program, uh, that is an independent body.

Um, and to my knowledge, sir, I do not know of any Inspector General, um, inquiry or process as it relates to this topic. Should there be?

Inspector General comments or Inspector General programs can be launched by anyone at any time. And so I'm not in a position to opine on whether one is warranted or not.

I'm sorry, you're not— you're the acting supervisor of the department, right? How would that not— Well, Senator, I think that your question implies that there's malfeasance involved. Involved. And I would argue that there is not. So there's, so there's no need for the Inspector General to have a look because everything is—.

I believe that we have conducted ourselves legally. I believe that the contracts have been done, and I know that the contracts have been done by warranted contracting officers who are licensed by the federal government, that are career professionals, that are excellent at their job. And I believe that everything that has happened with this project, as well as all construction projects the National Park Service are done in compliance with the law. Well, I guess as further examination continues, we will find out. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, with no further questions and no other members, although I hear some are coming, they need to speed along. I would like to thank you, Mr. Lilly, for being here this morning, and for all my colleagues who participated in today's hearing. Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, July 1, to do so. The nominee's responses to those questions are due back to this committee no later than 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, July 8, and will be submitted for the record.

With that, this hearing is adjourned.