Sealaska Heritage Institute: Lecture: CONNECTING HAIDA LANGUAGE LEARNERS ACROSS BORDERS THROUGH STORY | Sealaska Heritage

Alrighty. Plahawiya di talang. Hi, my friends and family.

I, Tukshok A. Hinudeekyaang. Gats'akas kustu di kwaalagang. Hiktaa handleist eesh usnagang. Nagang. Waiats out out lugang handlei eesh usnagang.

I said hello, my friends and family. My name is Tukshok A. My English name is Sarah Peel. I'm from the village of Heidelberg. My grandparents are Anna and Clarence Peele, and I'm so happy to be introducing my dear friend Jesquan today.

So Dr. Jesquan Bedard is an assistant professor at Simon Fraser University in the Indigenous Languages program. Her specialty is xʷad kil, the Old Masset or Northern dialect of the Haida language, as well as methodologies and pedagogies for Indigenous language strengthening. Dr. Bedard's dissertation is titled "Haud K'esgatl Gusugii Gansong: A Haida Research Framework for Learning Haud K'il" and aims to provide a pathway for specialized Haida language learning guided by Haida community laws and values. Jess Kwan is also a Haida singer, Haud K'il translator, and Haud K'il learning resource developer. Starting in fall 2025 and through spring term 2026, Dr. Jesquan Bedard offered INLG 435, Haudenosaunee advanced to Haida language storytelling.

This class was offered to intermediate Haudenosaunee learners of the Indigenous Languages Program at Simon Fraser University. This class centered on a story first recorded in 1901 by ethnologist John R. Swanton for the Jesup North Pacific Expedition called "How the Kigani Migrated to Alaska." This story was originally written in the American Phonetic Alphabet, APA, but retranscribed into modern Hodgkin orthography by Dr. Bedard and workshopped by the class. The lecture, this lecture will detail the process of shaping the course material, the learning outcomes of the course, including the experiences of both Canadian and American Haida, as the story connected students to place, shared history, and new understandings of the Haida, of how the Haida migrated to Alaska. Again, a big hawa to everybody for joining us today, and just a reminder to please please silence all of your cell phones before Dr. Jeskwan takes back the mic. There will also be an opportunity for questions at the end of the lecture.

So, slán go fóill for Dr. Jeskwan.

How—.

Ají tlagey tláhadala'asi. Tlingit haadei, Dlangya tlige aaw eejaa. I'm honored to be invited here on the Tlingit Inai.

So as you heard, Gisdu di eejung, Jaskwan Hanudi Kyang, San Lennay Emma Matthews Hanudi Non Keas Kyagan, Chief Weah William Matthews Hanudi Chin Keas Kyagan. This is the I'm right here.

Skiljade Phyllis Bedard, hinudi naan kiyagin, lao yaku jingogin. Anna Hyde, hinudi awang au kiyagin, lao wosten jingogin.

Koonajit Kathy Bedard, hinudi au kiang. Kuyance Ken Bedard, hinudi hod kiyagin.

Nangjui Kingas Hana, Lise Judd, Nora Jane, and Weeja Henu Digidilung Kiawung. So my great-grandparents were Emma Matthews and William Matthews, Chief Weah. My grandmother was Phyllis Bedard, and my grandmothers were Phyllis Bedard and Anna Hyde, Kathy Bedard is my mother, and my father was Kweyans, Ken Bedard. And my children are Nung Chui Kingas, Lise Judd, and Weeja.

Jaskwan Henu Dikyang, Kungwanet Hansen, Nung Dukdukdia Doktagas Hansen, Henu Dikyang. Tsiitskitne stu di iskogng, aotligay stu di iskogng, Haida iskanyats hade di yu iijung. Simon Fraser University.

So my other names are K'un Gwanet as well as Nung Duck Duck Dee Ya Doktagus, Hummingbird Doctor, given to me recently when I achieved my PhD. I'm from the Cheitskitnee Eagle Clan from Old Masset. My mother was adopted into that clan before marrying my father, who's Yaxlanes. And I work for the Indigenous Languages Program at Simon Fraser University, and we work together closely with Haudenosaunee, the language office in Old Masset, and we're coming upon our second year of immersion program, and I co-instruct that immersion with, yup, with Jassaljus Yakujinaas.

So this lecture is really centering on a class that came to be from circumstances really that brought learners together virtually. Traditionally and for a long time, most title language classes in Outla Gey, that's the Masset area, were done in person, and this was because our elders, our first language speakers, preferred it that way. It was really uncomfortable for them to be online, so we didn't even really consider that as an option when we had our elders with us for teaching.

And then many of our elders passed away in Outlagey and For some time, we had to really transition into teaching with everything that they left with us.

And then what happened with the circumstances of COVID-19 necessitated the availability of online class delivery. So during that year, we shifted and started delivering our Hod Kil classes online to really keep our learners in the language, and because of that, really wonderful things happened.

Most importantly being that our, our Haida who lived off island were able to access our Haida language learning in new ways that was not available to them previously, because as many of you may know, it's quite costly and difficult to travel to Haida Gwaii. So many people who've moved off island for many different reasons over the years, our Haida diaspora, never had opportunity to have language classes, and these online classes really opened up that opportunity, and we, we found connections to our East Haa'daa students, our Haida students here in Alaska, as well as many Haida students in the lower 48, and students across what is now known as Canada, as far east as Montreal. So it was quite, quite exciting, even though it was difficult to transition to that online class delivery. And I was a part of that. I delivered a number of classes as a sessional instructor with Simon Fraser University's Indigenous Languages Program over the years, and some of the topics of the more advanced classes included our stories.

Gyaaslinge laa Gyaaslinga. Our elders have taught us the importance of story to understand our Haida worldview. Giaaslingay have been passed down generation after generation orally.

Giaaslingay teach our protocols such as yakudang, respect, gudawthwadluwan gudawthkwaginang, everything is connected to everything else, tlahyata, to make right, as well as the importance of place. Many types of stories such as clan histories, nation stories, event stories, and there are also our creation stories.

Our trained storytellers play a crucial role in our communities, clans, and nations. We've learned how important those members of our society, the important role that they've played. Gwaganat, Dr. Diane Brown from Agilda Olnegei, Skidegat, her grandfather was a trained storyteller, as well as my great-great-grandmother, the mother of Sandlanay, Emma Matthews, Sarah Spence. They knew many, many stories, and these stories contain complex Haida grammar and syntax.

So some of these storytelling classes that we taught were kind of survey courses with where we went over multiple stories over the term.

This, many students gave feedback that there wasn't enough time to learn elements of the story in this type of class. So we developed, right, courses concentrating on a single story. And I really prefer that method, and it seemed as though many, many students did also. So I decided to teach a story last fall, 2025, that I had recently transcribed into the modern orthography, and it was titled "How the K'ay-gani Emigrated to Alaska." And this story was recorded by John R. Swanton, in 1901 when he visited Haida Gwaii. He's an ethnographer, and I chose this story because of the many Alaskan Haida, our k'is haadee, T'ulung, who over the years have taken classes and who frequently discuss and share our haad'kil learning journey.

So 10 students enrolled in the INLP 435, Haud Kíl Gathlungdung, the advanced topics in Haida language storytelling, and represented the 3 major dialects of the Haida language. So we had our Aautligay Haud students, our Aautligay Haud Kíl students, our students from Masset, our K'ís Haud Kíl students from around these parts, and Southeast Alaska, our K'ís Xóot'xil, and our Haida Xóot'xil, Skidegat Haida language student. And this was a first for me because often our dialects are so similar in Aautla'gé to Alaskan Haida that it's very common for us to share resources as well as have our students go across and learn from each other. However, it's not often that we share our learning journey with, or that we have classes that include Haida Gwaii students, as the dialect in Tla Gilda Skidegat sounds quite different than our Haudenosaunee in the north. Once we understand those differences, we can understand each other, but over the years it just hasn't been common that we are learning together.

So it was quite interesting to have all three dialects represented amongst the students. So our work in class really began with discussions about our Haida dialect diversity, including similarities and differences. We also discussed our our shared understandings and teachings about Gyaaslingayi, including oral histories, storytellers, and story protocols that we had all learned over the years.

So Gyaaslingayi a day'et, about the story that I chose. So it was first recorded in 1901, as I mentioned. By American ethnologist John R. Swanton, who was a member of the Jessup North Pacific Expedition, which was led by Franz Boas. Swanton's 10 months on Haida Gwaii produced a volume of written material, including The Ethnology of the Haida that was published in 1905, as well as The Haida Text, Masset Dialect, and The Haida Text, Skidegate Dialect, that were both published in 1908.

He also has a volume of written notes that I understand are available, I think, in Philadelphia to view, which I would love to go and see sometime, because there is much information that is not included in these texts. It's dense and really there's numerous, numerous pages. It's amazing the amount of work that was done in those 10 months. And of course he didn't work in a vacuum. He didn't arrive on Haida Gwaii understanding and knowing the Haida language.

He knew only English. So he was very young at the time, and this was the first job that he had as an ethnologist. And in Masset, he connected with Henry Edenshaw and Mary Ridley. Who translated the stories recorded by the Haida storytellers that they introduced him to.

So he went and travelled to the established villages of that time. All the northern Haida villages had congregated in what is now known as Old Masset from all of the areas around northern Haida Gwaii after the major epidemic of smallpox that hit in 1864. And that, along with the following diseases that were brought over, reduced the Haida population to just over 500 Haidas in the 1905 census.

So there were still remaining our trained storytellers at that time. And those storytellers worked with Swanton because of the relationship he had created with Henry Edenshaw and Mary Ridley in the North. He also worked with Moody, I think Tom Moody from the South. Who introduced him to the Southern storytellers.

Haida stories were recorded in the American phonetic alphabet, the APA, by hand, of course. And so if you can imagine 1901 Haida Gwaii working in tents with lamps and just writing these stories line by line, word by word, as they were told. And it was, of course, Henry and Mary who provided the translations of the stories.

The—. They were allegedly further interpreted by Swanton. That's why I really want to get my hands on those notes. I know there are Haida scholars who have traveled and gained access to those.

So about the transcription process, here's just a snippet of the beginning of the story here, and this is what it looks like in the American phonetic alphabet. So a lot of these symbols are not recognizable to our modern-day, you know, typing system, and this alphabet was developed to record the plethora of Indigenous languages that were being recorded at the time in this period of what they call salvage ethnography, with ethnologists and anthropologists really looking to collect the last of what they, what they said of these great nations along the coast. And because of the great diversity of languages, you know, amongst our nations, this orthography really just represents sounds, right? So orthographies are just symbols that represent different sounds.

Now, there have been many scholars over the years, including linguists, who have retranscribed a number of these works into what we call the modern Hodgkin orthography. Which has been developed, you know, since the 1970s. And, you know, really I tip my hat to the work here in Alaska for the Society of the Preservation of the Haida Language, who did a lot of work to create that orthography with the linguist Jeff Leer, and one that we've all adapted and developed into the agreed-upon modern orthography that we use today. So there's been little fixes and shifts over the years.

Apparently the entire Masset texts have been retranscribed into the modern orthography. However, we in community do not have access to that retranscription. There are, of course, a few copies floating here and there that I've been honoured and really grateful to have access to over the years in my Hodgkíl learning, including the Oystercatcher story. That was one of my first encounters with our stories that was, I think, originally done into the modern orthography by John Enrico and then workshopped by Dr. Mary Anne Ignace, Gulkilgit, who's been a teacher of mine, a mentor, and now my colleague in the Indigenous Languages Program.

So of course these stories are just so rich and beautiful and tell so much of our history, so we all want our hands on them. And so seeing it in this orthography doesn't necessarily make it accessible. So I've over the years worked on a few stories and put them into our modern orthography that are not available to us. I started out with The Woman of Sutdang Kun, and that story takes place on Haida Gwaii, and I used that for a course in 2023 and 2024. And then I got to work on this story.

In starting in 2023 and working on it to this very day. Now this map here, I'm just showing it because I'm going to tell a bit, bit more about the story. This is the Ocean and Way of Life Map created by the Marine Planning Department of the Council of the Haida Nation, and I just really love, I love the look of this map of John Broadhead of the Gaugaiya Institute was the one who designed and researched this map with information from our marine use study that took place over a decade or more, where Haida knowledge holders contributed to the information that is on this map, which includes place names, just a small sampling really of our place names. It includes our marine mammals, our marine animals, as well as a few supernatural beings, just very select here and there, but it shows Haida Gwaii in such a beautiful light with all of this cultural information.

And I use it quite often in my classes because I, I appreciate the aesthetics and all the information. However, because it is dated, we do, we do make sure to make note of if there are any corrections to this presentation of our place names here that were used before we adopted the use of tonal markers in Aotla'gē Hot'kil. But it shows here northern Haida Gwaii, and this is where I'm from. I'm from Aotla'gē, which is in this area. That means— which Aotla'gē literally means land all around Masset Inlet, And that just is the term we use in modern day because to include all of the villages that are there, not just the one place where the current reserve, Old Masset, sits.

As our, our Haida territory extends, of course, beyond that tiny, tiny little piece of land that the Canadian government determined to be a reserve.

And I love to use it in our storytelling classes because our stories always tell us about place, and we're able to understand our place, our landscape and our oceanscape in such a deeper manner with the use or with understanding the haudenosaunee, the complex haudenosaunee that is used in our stories. So I may come back to this because I really wanted to show where the story began here on K'ís Gwaii. K'ís Gwaii we translate into North Island. That's very commonly how we call K'ís Gwaii, but that's not the exact translation. K'ís is the name for this body of water here, which is right between Haida Gwaii and Southeast Alaska, Prince of Wales Island.

And you can't see it here, but it's just over, over on the top of the map. It's very, very close. And from our northern shores, we see Alaska. So we feel quite connected to you all, even though I had to fly down to Seattle to fly back up here to Juneau. So I—.

The story begins on K'ís Gwaii. This village here of Jaa Tlaanis.

And it starts with a woman from the Kwitas clan who's married to a man of the Q'awus branch of the Staastis, Eagles.

And the man goes fishing for halibut, and that's how the story begins.

So when he comes back, there is a group of people who are canoeing up from here, from Masset Inlet, and they're Jatláanas, and they want to buy some halibut from him. And he refuses, but they end up tying him up and taking the halibut. So he's, he somehow manages to escape this predicament and he goes back to his village and he tells his nephew what happened. And his nephew springs into action. He is very offended by this great disrespect to his uncle who was tied up and all his halibut was stolen.

And this tells a little bit, just a little snippet. So this is how the story looks in the modern orthography.

And, "Wagyan sashkang aanaal katsaayan." The next day, very early, his nephew went out and returned at once. This is after he heard about what happened. "Wagyan ulqa sh'eidee daagan ulhustoagaan." He took out a bow his uncle owned.

And his uncle asked him, "What do you want for it?" He said to him, "I want it for an eagle that is sitting on the point." And I really like this little snippet because we spent quite a bit of time in this part of the story, and we were, we were kind of contemplating these events. And we came to a conclusion in the class that the nephew was not going to hunt an eagle sitting on the point, but he was going after the chief of the Ch'othlanis, who is eagle.

And this story uses metaphor to describe that.

And we loved figuring this out. And the hod kil taught us it, and we understood it when we understood the movement of the nephew after, in the ensuing events, because he did go back over to the chaath Ōlnige and exacted revenge, which set off a series of conflict and war.

So we learn of the events that took place in an intricate narrative involving the clans and villages that resulted in conflict, and it began on East K'waii, on the northwestern tip of Haida Gwaii. And the story tells us because of the warring of the Haida, they moved to Prince of Wales Island and then of the ensuing events that occurred. And it's interesting because the story is really detailed at the beginning and then it kind of just glosses over major events in one or two sentences. And again, we as a class sat and discussed why that might be. And we thought again of the circumstances of how the story was recorded in 1901.

And the storyteller telling, you know, John R. Swanton, you know, with his collaborators Mary Ridley and Henry Edenshaw repeating over and over again these events so it was recorded accurately. And we imagined maybe there was something that happened that the storyteller wanted to just move along the process. And we understood that how the story would have been told to understanders and Haida community members would have looked a lot different. There would not have been the repetition over and over again of each line. There would have been people sitting around to listen and hear and take in the story, and their purpose would not have been to record the story accurately, word for word.

So we understood that this story was told differently, and that may have affected how some of the events were told.

I really liked this one line of the story, and this tells of later on after there have been conflict and fighting when the Haida who had moved over had gotten into some scuffles. And we hear the English translation that is provided, we see 'And then the news of this reached North Island.' And the Haida that was given said, 'Wagyen king asayen.' So there's no mention of K'ís k'wai. So we are thinking, what does this translation mean? What is the Haida storyteller telling us? Wagyen, we know, is 'and then.' King is to tell news.

And events. Sa is to go across the water. And yaan is the storytelling past tense. So that news travelled across the water. And the Haida storyteller was letting us know of these events that were happening up here, and the news travelled across to Iskwai.

And in our higher Haida world, We would understand and picture that. And then the first place that news would hit, the northernmost point of Haida Gwaii is K'is Gwaii. So it wasn't necessary for that place name to be mentioned, but it was so interesting to learn about.

So these, these classes encourage and provide students a pathway for collective learning. They include, along with, you know, the story itself, discussions regarding Haudenosaunee word meaning, like I was just giving examples of, dialect conventions. So we're really able to understand each other's dialect in a deeper way through these classes. Oh, you say it that way, we say it this way. And then we have, we had our one Haida Gwaii student being like, oh, and we say it this way.

So it was so interesting and lovely to have all of our dialects converge, recognizing of course that the Haudenosaunee, what's now known as Aotla'ke Hotkil represents multiple, multiple northern dialects in Haida Gwaii. What's known as Haida Kil represents almost a dozen southern dialects in southern Haida Gwaii. "Is'xod kil" represents a number of Haida dialects here in the North. So there's not just one way, there's not just three ways, there are multiple ways to understand our language and they're all correct. Individual students' experiences learning xod kil becomes a mosaic representing a range of diverse dialects, clans, and families.

Students students attribute their teachings and tell who told it to them, what elder they learned from, what family member, their nani or their chinai, their chinii or their nanai, nana or chinna.

So the voices of each kunisi, our ancestors, join our classes via the memories shared by students demonstrating their dedication to Hodgkill learning.

Aji gasslingeugun. So what did the story teach us? The importance of place, how landscape and oceanscape is described in our language, and how we gain understanding of location in relation to the story events. The importance of relationships between families and clans. The uncle and the nephew, the husband and wife, the use of metaphor in Hod'kil storytelling and how it expands our understanding of Hod'kil worldview, our shared histories regardless of community, country, or dialect.

Wee dona. Gdawusut alang naangung. Weidana gdawusut alang heeningagung. Hadee wadluwanu tlak yakudangung. There were emotional parts to this class because it does cover conflict and war, and we had a difficult time with that.

That's not part of our Haida reality today. Today we live together. Today we live to— we share this beautiful Haida life and culture together. Today we respect each other. We respect all of our Haida people.

And we came to that conclusion as a class. We saw the beauty of this shared history and the result seen right here today in this very house. And I love knowing of shared families and cultures with the Haa Daaask and Tlingit Haadee. It's quite beautiful. And Staff Cowess Dr. Steph Cowess, who was in the class, really demonstrated this and communicated that to us all, and I appreciate her, and I'm hopeful that I'm able to see her this trip.

Gyaaslinge iskenn yakudang. Creating a safe space for Haida language learners across geography, dialect, and time zone are the welcome unintended result of virtual classes and deserve to be highlighted. Our complex Haida history has endured many harmful impacts of colonization which have resulted in an unprecedented Haida diaspora. Diaspora. Connecting Haida people through language learning and creating a safe and encouraging space to create relationships with language, land, and community is is truly an act of healing and demonstrates yakudangan, respect.

Hawa dalung oaskil logung, hawa for inviting me to give this lecture today, hawa to my hosts, wasaskidak, iskan kaalake islingaan family, hawa to my students who took the class and who are here today, either virtually or in person, Hawa to the teachings of each Kunisi, our ancestors who carried on our language, our stories, our way of being, our protocols through such a difficult time. They carried it to pass it along to us, this current generation of learners, to carry it forward with yakudang, respect.

And I'm so appreciative to my teachers over the years, the late Skadadalega, Cheney Steven Brown, the late Slikamjud Noni Bibsi, Primrose Adams, the late Awangli Skela, Lawrence Bell, the late Kuyang Claude Jones, Cheney Claude Jones, The late K'is k'wai'nan, Noni Mary Swanson.

And the list goes on with many elders who took place in Haudenosaunee, the language nest, my first experience in really learning Haudenosaunee to pass along to my children. And the storytellers, you know, who spent those many, many days and nights painstakingly repeating our stories. So they could be written down, and I imagine that they envisioned future generations of Haida knowing that their way of life wouldn't be forgotten. So I appreciate all of you being here today, and I did want to end with a song.

This is a song that I recently composed for my daughters who graduated this year. My older daughter from university, Hana Nungchui Kingas was the name she was given, one who looks to the center of things. And Nora Jane, my younger daughter who graduated from high school, and Lise Jada is her name, meaning mountain goat, mountain goat wool woman. She's a weaver.

You are so very smart. You're such a talented weaver.

We hold you, we hold you up so high, and we wish the very best for you.

And I have time for questions. And how is much?

Testing. Oh.

Howa, Jasquan. Shigoo penu kilidakya'ong.

First of all, I want to celebrate with you what you were able to do with getting the people together with the different dialects, regional differences, histories. I recognize that as an accomplishment. I just really like that part. I really like your demonstration of seeing our worldview through the stories. You were given the demonstration of this fellow was going to go looking for a specific eagle, not like a, you know, a bird, but so— and that's a thing you would get through our languages.

So I really appreciate your demonstration of that. I also want to thank you personally for sharing, sharing what you do in your work. You joined our Samaic Learners Group virtually and shared a lot of your story about how you started teaching, and it really helped us because we were in parallel tracks and we had some of the same issues that you were talking about. So it was really encouraging for us to have you dedicate some time to share with us. So I just wanted to— I don't have a question, but I just wanted to share some appreciation.

Hau'aa.

Hau'aa.

Hau'aa Jeskwan. I was wondering, and you mentioned this a little bit, but since you're working on the translation of some of these stories, and you kind of mentioned that some of the— when you translate the direct Xótk'il doesn't really translate into English the way that it was originally interpreted. And I'm wondering if that's been a pretty common occurrence throughout your translation.

Yes. Yes, definitely. There are things that are said in Haudenosaunee that just wouldn't sound right said how it's translated into English. I find it really amazing, the skill of our first language speakers who understood English and Haida, and Haida is their first language, and their ability to translate so perfectly. And sometimes we as learners looking at the translation might, might be compelled to say, put the exact translation, and then it just is gobbledygook in English, right?

And so that ability to create understanding amongst the different languages is really a skill I hope to gain. And but it's also something that's so helpful for a language learning kind of delving into piece by piece what the language is telling us. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Hau'au for coming, and I really like that question, and I was wondering personally, how has your worldview changed as you've learned our own understanding as Haida people, like, across the ocean, and how has that impacted you and your understanding and how you present yourself in the world?

Oh, that's a beautiful question. I think what it's done most significantly is created a greater understanding of just my place in the world, like physically and also relationally to my family or to other people and to, you know, the land, water, and, you know, the world at large. And I think one of the— I think there are many teachings that show that, but one of the ones that come to mind that are quite significant, that is quite significant for myself and other learners is knowing that there are kind of two main directions One is "q'at," towards the ocean, and the other is "dit," towards the forest. So you're either positioning yourself either way. So it's "q'at kwa," going towards the ocean, "dit kwa," going towards the forest, or "q'at ku," at the ocean, "dit ku," at the forest, "q'at kwi," it goes on and on, but recognizing that that's, those are the two two directions that one would be going on Haida Gwaii.

And so I find that really beautiful, and being more aware of where I am and understanding, you know, the words for our landscape and bays and streams, points, and how we, you know, stories change dependent on where one is. And I find that to be a beautiful learning that has really changed my awareness of where I'm at and where I'm going and my relation to the things around me, everything around me. Hawa. Hawa.

Hi, thank you.

So I think what I heard you say is that all of the stories that were documented by Swanton have been now transcribed in the modern orthography. But I think I also heard you say that they're not accessible to the community, and I didn't catch why. Yeah. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that and maybe if there are in addition to your work, other efforts to make those accessible to the community in the modern orthography? Right.

I think what we have to do is just do the work that I've been doing and retranscribe them, because there's just these intricate, complex politics of not, like, I guess, non-Haida experts coming and doing that work, and then as a result people saying, oh, it's not— we don't need to do it, so-and-so is doing it. And then there being circumstances where that person left and brought all their work with them, and at this time there's no light at the end of the tunnel where that's coming back. And I even know of some other linguists still or I've heard of, sorry, I don't know of, I've heard of that work being done kind of remotely as an academic exercise. But then again, that's not coming back to community either. So it's just something that we just have to get done.

And it's such a, I mean, it's a lengthy, arduous process. Like the story is 74 lines, and it took me, you know, 2 years of workshopping and editing and going over and checking. And even then I'm still finding things because it's not a perfect process, turning the APA into the modern orthography. It's—. There are some like really high-frequency words that are quite easy to transcribe, the ones like wagan and then or wadluwan, everything or everyone.

But there are others that you can see it in APA and you know the word, but like it's missing many characters indicating those sounds that we have to fill in if we have that knowledge. So it's a great learning exercise, and I think it's something our community can take on and learn a lot from, you know, if we're not able to access those, that work already done. Yeah. Thank you. Hawa.

Thank you. Just one. Could you talk a little bit about your immersion program and how you use sign language and, you know, to help the students get it? In their brain to associate the sign language with the language.

And how long has your immersion program been going on? And I know Nathan is part of the immersion program, and I really appreciate the work you have done because he has learned so so much, and I thank you. Ho, uh, ho, uh, the immersion program is going into its second year, so it started, um, in August 2025, um, and it's a partnership with the language office I work with, Hot Kilnay, the Haida language office in Outlagey, and an organization called Where Are Your Keys. And Where Are Your Keys developed a method that combines a modified American Sign Language with language learning, and so it's developed a number of techniques that we use, and it includes a lot of training in the techniques and learning signs and also creating signs, because as we mentioned, there are things that are said in English— or there are things that are said in Haida that there's no English translations, So of course there's no sign for it. So we create signs for those types of vocabulary.

And it's going into its second year and we see it going into a third year. So there were 7 students in the first year who trained in the method. I trained alongside them because I had just recently finished my dissertation about learning Hud'kil and then jumped on board to help create the curriculum for the program, but I was kind of the— I got on board right when the students were learning the methods, so I was learning with them because I had an unexpected medical leave last summer. And so the 7 students last year, of the 7 students last year, Qallagaytlinga, your grandson included, there are 6 returning for the second year, and then there are 6 new students who are launching into their first year. So we will be teaching 12 students in total.

And yeah, it's—. It—. The method and techniques are really focused on the mind-body connection. So everything has a sign. So when we practice hotkil, the program is 9 to 4, Monday to Thursday.

So it's very, very intense and arduous. But beautiful and fun. And we have a lot of physical activity that we do because we're always using our hands and arms. We do a lot of stretching, Energizer games, and then we go through lists of vocabulary that are associated with each lesson. And then that— we build on those lists day after day and we repeat them., and it really does stick well into students' minds.

It's an exciting program. We also include story in the program. We, we did a puppet show of the Oystercatcher story and performed it during our Haudenosaunee potlatch last April, and so that, that was a wonderful way to include story in our learning too.

Hi, I have a language question for you. So you described— you'll have to forgive me if I butcher this, but did you say git and kot for describing, I guess, like the space around us? Would you also use that in like a setting right now? Like, for example, in Tlingit, we have dak and dak. So if, let's say, Shiklop came up to the podium, I would say dak hwo'agoot, he came out to, like, almost like an opening.

It kind of almost describes, like, he came out to, I don't know, do whatever. Whereas if I were to say you were to leave and go out to probably closer to the walls, That would be dakhuwagut, and that would mean you went out to obscurity.

Would you use git and qaat in the same sense, like right now, for example? I would have to really orient myself. I would use it most commonly outdoors, so if I was going towards the water. And I knew where the water was. That'd be like, "cut," and then "deet" if I was going towards the forest.

So it's often used, most often used outdoors, and inside the house I know there is a similar language for being in a longhouse, and towards the back of the longhouse, which is, you know, the safest place where we would be. So we discussed that as a metaphor, I think, to seat our elders and respected ones, regardless of what house we're in.

But that's the only example I could think of right now.

Yes.

Right on the dot. We are exactly 1 o'clock.