Palmer: Sep. 17, 2026, Planning and Zoning Commission

I would like to talk about the variants tonight. Um, the variance request fails on all 6 requirements. It's a typical corner lot surrounded by 3 streets and 1 privately owned adjoining property. No corner lot can buy or expand into a street lot next door, and the lot next door was not for sale. The building is close to a zero lot line, but that doesn't impact its grandfather rights for existing use.

The problem is owner's actions and nothing else. The applicant's letter from 5/28, quote, realization of our plans hinges on securing adequate parking provisions. The before purchasing, they asked the adjoining owner if he would sell the green space, and he said no. And then all other 3 sides are streets. They decided to purchase anyway a retail and apartment investment property, knowing it was nonconforming for any other use.

The result is of their own actions. Code 1776 does not allow change of use to increase its nonconformity. The variance request would give the applicant special privileges, rights no one else has. The City Council unanimously voted postpone indefinitely removing parking code for all bars, restaurants, and retail. In 1963, all properties were given a nonconforming status, same rights for all.

The variance, variance is injurious. Evidence that the city was aware, per Manager Mosi, '23 memorandum to the council. It shows that the 35-seat restaurant that was required 7 parking spaces, uh, and it outlines the disruptions it caused. I have some photos, but the actual cars there are 21, and to meet code, businesses count their street frontage. Variance would harm that balance, making several of us out of compliance.

It's also interest to the city-owned depot by allowing a private property owner exclusive rights. The property's already permitted commercial retail. The staff got number D wrong. The intent of PMC-1764 was not to override PMC-1768 nonconforming parking. Is the characteristics of use such as street parking in relations to the land, structures, and premise No change shall be made in such characteristics of use which increases nonconformity with such requirements.

Change will be permitted in the direction of conformity of the requirements of this title. Meaning this type of variance request is invalid against code. There's nothing wrong with this flat corner lot. It is not a wedge. No government regulation renders it unusable.

It's 100% usable. Um, last one, land use is already general commercial. The building is usable as a rental, retail, and apartment. Code 1768 does not allow the change of use to increase nonconformity. The land or structure can't be extended or enlarged.

And I do hope that Troy and Andrea still consider Palmer as they look for something that can fit their high-level parking needs. It is a good community. And then if you look at the pictures, there's some pictures that show the depot and it's packed. Thank you so much.

Oh my, the privileges of being disabled. Not that I'm disabled. Okay. Hi, I'm Janet Kincaid. I'm by far the oldest person in this room, but I'm also the longest business owner.

And we bought the hotel, I think, in 1976 as a family, and I've been continuously a business owner ever since. Presently, I own the Colony Inn and the little house across the street. And do those rentals. So I'm very fond of Palmer. I consider Palmer my home, and I want to see the business thrive.

I am totally against this variance. Uh, I think that the field should be as even as possible, and to come for a variance when you need 100% variance for parking He only has 1 parking place as it stands right now. I think to then assume that the parking can be on the city. We, uh, at the Valley Hotel, which I happen to work, uh, pay taxes, pay gravel, pay lights, pay a lot of things to have parking. Uh, at the end, I have parking.

When we bought the hotel, I met with Dan Contini and did a lot of work on figuring out how people could park, because there weren't any parking places. This is way back in the days when the lot came up for sale behind us. We could easily see the need for parking, so we bought it and then paid taxes on it, cleared it off, paved it, use it for parking. So I think that they ordinance that we have to have off-street parking. A variance is a tool for planning and zoning to have and can be used sparingly to fix situations that can't be fixed.

In this case, this is almost much closer to a square lot than it is a wedge, and it has been a very successful retail as long as I can remember in Palmer. So thank you for listening.

Hi, my name is Marty Kincaid. I've been in the Palmer area since 1962. I have been involved in commercial business investment for 25 years. I just recently did an RFP for a federal lease, and the first thing is location, the second is parking. If I did not have the parking requirement for that RFP, then that's ball stops.

I'm not allowed to move forward. So, um, it's like I said in my letter, it's unfortunate that they bought this building, but, uh, there is the Dairy Queen right next door that is for sale. My solution is sell this building that does not meet the parking. It'd be great to have a barbecue place. Nobody's saying no against barbecue.

Nobody's saying no against Troy. We're saying no to the variance that it is retail. And the other point I put in my letter is then that the taxpayers are paying for the maintenance of the parking, not a private individual. You're competing against private enterprises where the city is doing all the snowplowing, the maintenance, the insurance, etc., where that should be borne by the business, not the city, not the taxpayers. Then you're competing against the taxpayers that, uh, gain revenue for the city from the depot.

And so I think that a better solution is to buy— sell the Just So building and buy the Dairy Queen. There's 30 parking spaces over there, plenty to meet the needs. There's a drive-through. Who doesn't love a drive-through in the winter? And There's a commercial kitchen.

Everything that is there is available. And so to force, like I said in my letter, a square peg in a round hole is ridiculous for that. We're even here because it should have been stopped right in as if you were doing an RFP. There is no ample parking available. I can't believe I haven't used my whole 3 minutes.

But anyway, thank you, Council, for listening. I'm sorry that this is back back here. It is nothing personal, definitely not against the barbecue, and— but it is. And if we want to invite, um, businesses to Palmer, it has to be the level, same playing field, because there's other properties that would want variances. Oh, one other thing is this would be changing code from the International Building Code from, uh, mercantile, which is retail, assembly, and that might create a whole nother, uh, variances needed to meet those codes.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Sherman Leifer, uh, owner of the Palmer Bar. Um, thank you guys for, uh, having this in your service here. I really appreciate that. Um, I'm against this variance, against the variance for the primary purposes. It's going to be harmful to other businesses.

It's going to be harmful to the depot, the city. If it's harmful to the other businesses, there might be some repercussions, liability towards the city on that due to allowance of this variance. Um, uh, really, you know, we have parking codes in place. At the last meeting, the gentleman that was sitting over there is on the City Council. He was part of when they put in the existing parking codes, and they did it for a reason, and they put a lot of thought and effort for it, and he was against it.

And I just think, you know, there is a lot of other places in town. There's the laundromat, there's Humdinger's, was also Sweet Gypsy not too long ago. There's other places in town, but allowing a variance on parking, it's going to put the burden on burden on the city, on other businesses unfairly, especially to the ones within, you know, a couple hundred feet, especially the depot. And I think you guys should consider that. I wish nothing but the best.

We want more businesses in Palmer. There's a few other ones that are available, so good luck.

Kind of like West Hart's, um, kind of like everyone else says, we all want Palmer to grow. We want it to grow responsibly. This is not the doing that. Any other, like they've said, there's many other locations. That one, when the train depot actually has a big function, we get their overflow already.

Um, there's nothing more depressing when you're watching When I come to my bar and our parking lot is completely full and it's— the customers are elsewhere. Um, and because the train depot was full because the alehouse is having a big function. Um, that's the impact of putting another place downtown that's right here that doesn't have parking would be a very bad thing. Also, if We, we would like to get a variance then for closing our parking lot down, turn it into a music venue. Um, if other people are getting variances, yeah, are we all— none of us as business owners want to be like, hey, screw our neighbors.

We want our neighbors to grow and be good and be successful. It grows all of us, but What's going to happen when our businesses are negatively impacted? Because if I can't have my customers park in the back and come in, they won't come in because they're having to walk through too far away. So please think about this and make— try to make the right decision. But yeah, we got to live as a community and look out for each other.

But that's just the bad, a bad spot. Thank you.

Jim Cooper, City of Palmer resident. A little history for the 3 people who have not been on the commission when this first started. June of 2024, the applicant put in a request to favor a waiver for seating for anywhere between 45 and 130 people, depending on what he wanted to do in the business. That came before the council and that was disapproved because at that time it could have been up to 20, approximately 20 parking spaces. Um, there's not spaces obviously available around town.

Subsequent to that, the city council brought forth an ordinance to eliminate all parking requirements in the city. That also failed because we realized that businesses need to have parking requirements, and we realized that, you know, there's typically not a parking problem in Palmer. It's a walking problem. But I understand the restrictions that are on this building. Obviously, it has no off-street parking at all.

And what I'm, I'm concerned about, about the variance, uh, variance goes with the building, which means it goes on history forever. Um, and so if you allow this variance, there's a potential that the downstairs could be, um, turned into a business. The middle floor can be turned into a business, and they can build another floor on top and be turned into another business. It could be all restaurants or bars. And what that means is then all of those have unlimited parking.

So, a suggestion, Mr. Vincent, is, you know, come back with another request. If he wants 45 seats, that's only 9 parking places. If he wants to do that, then you come back with a waiver to the council again and ask for 9 instead of 20. And I think that would probably have a much more favorable opportunity to pass. I understand waivers go with the, um, the, the business and not the building.

So I think that's the thing that you need to think about. I think the other thing you need to think about is you're missing 3 of your commission members, and maybe, uh, an opportunity to postpone this that you can get all people here that you can, you know, have a much more lively discussion. So thank you.

I, I got a question. I, as the person bringing this up, have a matter. I'm not going to be here a month long. Makes no sense.

And clerk. This is what I was— We have a couple options and vote on the motion as is, or somebody could make an amendment to change it to Sorry about the picture.

That would be my— so we do have a motion on the floor that they— I, I would advise Council, the motion, do the motion Because we've certainly done that for—. Thank you very much.

Moving on with the agenda at this time.

Resolution 7.0, Central History, exception for parking, Block 1, AR, 1.

The act—. Zoning—. Zoning variance amendment is considered a quasi-judicial action by the commission. Quasi-judicial actions are those that involve the application of established rules or policies to specific acts in order to determine the rights of particular person or a specific group of persons, including but not limited to any permitted applicants. Family members may wish to speak to Commissioners.

The decision should be made by the facts presented by the staff, testimony given, and the contact and conversation available on this matter. To be considered ex parte could cause Commissioners to recuse themselves from voting on the matter to maintain the integrity of our Commission. Please disclose if you have spoken to anyone about this or received correspondence explaining what occurred, and sharing any information you have received. Please vote. Commissioners, I—.

Prior contact and communication with anyone on the—.

R02, the property, commercial property to the west. Building was first occupied by a bookstore, which was the founding—. Founding operation of the—. Since then, building serves a variety of commercial Uh, most recently just so we should talk, some of the city 2.8 existing zoning, zoning is commercial general and, and overlaid with District considerations of, uh, subdivision 1, pretty detailed records.

9, 2 Years after, 2 years after building, of course it was out in CG, Commercial General, as shown on the 19th day of Palmer zoning map, it's 106, Variances are intended to allow the creation of terms in special cases.

Chapter 17.64 parking loading, this will code 1764.0.0 Central Business District, a minimum number of parking spaces to be provided for each structure Variance, variance. In order to grant a variance, the commissioner must find that each has been met. There are unusual circumstances of generally to overcome the same incentive probably have a camp—. There's interpretation in this title of the—. It's coming by the property—.

Same district in terms of the—. The authorization of variance will not be Authorization of variance will not be introduced to nearby— that granting variance from the— title— the application is due to manufacturing— and/or governmental action— that granting the variance will not permit a land use district inside the city.

I have to stress it. The subject property is approximately 3,428 square feet, two-story commercial building. Each floor is approximately 2,426 square feet. For an estimated building total of— building was constructed in 1949 under the city's current zoning regulations. It was zoned in 1945 and is zoned commercially general under AMC 17640 Dallas East Martin.

Retail use of the water space is currently and has been retail, continues retail. So retail in it is a non-conforming status due to it predating current zoning and retail use, use of the water space for— in this case, the, uh, design use as a restaurant. While restaurants and bars require one parking space for 5 seats based on the maximum seating capacity, fractions are always rounded up in this calculation of parking. Here's the whole So calculation of this square footage, 427. Right now the building is—.

Status for retail essentially has —on the 35 seats, 7 spaces, 8, 9, 50 seats, 10.

Recognizing the distinction between proposed change in PMC 1768.0 rights that were working as a non-state change may not be made parking requirements associated with— As for the staff's finding, particularly on this question, usual circumstances apply.

Every process has any small and very— just, you know, Egypt, subsequently 69.6% of lot coverage. General minimum 72,000 square feet.

And this current property is 34.

This limits the practical ability to provide additional, additional onsite parking. Circumstances substantially predated out in parents' change of use. Respiratory use also shall be evaluated under C.070 to determine whether—.

Existing part—. Staff finds that is supported with— qualification.

So strict interpretation, Title 17, what is title?

Same district. Property is located within the same business district, while redevelopment after the existing building has historically supported commercial uses despite constrained physical characteristics. The application currently— the adaptability existing structures. However, a project should distinguish between continued use and establishment of a new use that may generate different blurs. Chapter 1764 also provides mechanisms for addressing blurs, including qualified blurs.

Chapter 1764 outlines the criteria of each Journalist quoted, submit to France, 1768-70. Variants will not be dangerous to member.

Tested variants return for unauthorized expansion.

Would result in injury to property. If you aren't used to nature or active recreation on the land or property, then the property owner should consider conceding credit Do you want to mention that when, um, investigating Linda Restini, what I brought to you, that, um, early 2024, subject called out to you?

This subsequently have led to— hey, the 2021 code to address such things. So it needs to take into consideration that particular 17, 64, as much Austrian, back in previous, still leads to, it's consistent with the objectives.

Conservation of— grant should, however, be specific, should not—.

Staff finds that the criteria here at the Equal Opportunity topographic condition, government selection, arrangement, physical condition, existing power, the described experience of those— onsite development. The property cannot facilitate any onsite East side of the railroad corridor and current parking design standards, trenching, trenching on the—. Additionally, to the west, if there to the crosswalk, it sets a 20-foot— so essentially, due to the crosswalking, that end of the—. Just—. It should not, however, be characterized Up against historically supported commercial uses, in this case, hotel.

Title 17 provides alternative satisfying— evidence supports that are fine— Criteria E is supported to the extent of the described above.

Lastly, uh, criteria 20, funding, the requested variance is limited to 2017-0. It does not alter funding as it is shown in CG And so historical city action in regards to vicinity variance, but, um, actual random 08-0111 prior city action was concerning 76 South Alaska Street. That should be considered as relevant historical evidence regarding the tree cemetery straining downtown properties. It should be treated as an action rather than any precedent. How is the current code differ—.

As an application should be evaluated. Issues 1761 1768, 070, 1776.

Property is located on Alaska Street. It, um, for that waiver, it was, um, applied change that from retail space essentially trusted. This case, it was approved. That lot does not provide any on-site parking.

So I package.

I, I, I had read the package.

What I lost out Why didn't you include the, the original staff findings?

Any other— excuse me, of the commissioners, any other questions from commissioners to staff?

Thank you very much, and I will—.

I just want to know, question was, um, worth of 1,000 square feet CBD that, that would pertain to actually relax to help facilitate ideas under less constraint. So, 17 to 19, that's the era of Matrix.

Thank you, Commissioner. Um, now open to public testimony. Applicants are asked to give their testimony, their opportunity to clarify. This case, the Excuse me, Vincent.

I'm gonna— I need to use the restroom. Is that going to count towards my 10 minutes? Yeah, it's another lunch.

Mason is a very— to give Christian yourself.

Now, a last testimony, and then, uh, I'm going to hand to you.

Thank you. I'm going to use my phone first. That's fine.

So, um, again, my name is Troy Vincent. I did buy that property. Um, there are a few things that have been misconstrued over the years. When I did buy that property, I was aware that there was parking restrictions. At the time, it was told to me that I had 4 parking spots.

That was reduced to 3. At the time, it was also told me, per the rules, that it was 1 parking spot equal 5 customers.

I noticed that rule changed this April and made it 1 to 4. So thanks for making that a little harder for me. But the question is, is I understood that it was retail, much like what was discussed. I also understood with talking with city officials and whatnot prior to buying the building that that was considered retail. And it was grandfathered as retail.

And much like what was just mentioned, there was 9-point-some spots, 'cause that rule hasn't changed, that was allowed, so it rounded to 10. Then I looked at it and it was everything I got out of all the information that I was given is I'm not increasing the parking requirement for the building because it's already at 10. So when I first applied for the parking waiver with the city council, I had big dreams. Just bought a building, live it up. So I did ask for up to 130 customers in that building.

Well, that got pooh-poohed right away. And when I found that out, because an engineer told me I wanted a rooftop bar, I went back to Brad or community development and said, hey, I need to change that. They're like, well, you can make your statement So, yes, it's true that I initially asked for 130, but it's also true that that meeting there, I conceded to go down to 50. Now, 50 at the time was only an additional— I want to say 6 spots I was requesting for the parking here. That would have given me my 50.

So anyway, that, that's the confusion. Acting like I was naive and didn't know what was going on is not true. I was given that because it was parking of 10 for the retail. If I conformed it over, I would have to follow the new rules, but the new rules would only be if I exceeded what was already granted to the facility in the building itself as it is. That's the disconnect.

So the, you know, that's, that's my issue is if I do want a restaurant of 40 or 50 people, that usage of the building with 10 parking spots, it doesn't arbitrarily just go to my spot, go to my building. So anyway, that's the confusion that I had is I was under the, when I bought the building, the idea that the worst case scenario as I could have a restaurant with 50. And I conceded that, and the waiver still got denied.

After hearing some testimony prior to me getting a chance to speak here, I think there's a lot of— there's a concept in business called competitive clustering. And that basically, basically says, yeah, put more people downtown, everybody's going to prosper. And that's what I would do in this position. I would have a restaurant. Yeah, people on, you know, off the cuff, they go, I'm going to be taking food away from Vagabond Blues in the hotel.

That is not true. If I brought 200 additional people or 100 additional people into downtown Palmer on any given night I don't have room for them. So where are they gonna go? Vagabond Blues and the Valley Hotel. So the whole concept of that collective clustering, they do it at malls, they do it everywhere, is the idea is the more people you bring into Palmer, it's better for Palmer.

And that's all I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to make a business. I don't sell socks, I don't sell sewing products. I do bare naked barbecue.

Um, let's see, lots of talk about parking not available. In that package you'll see a circle area that I drew at basically is 600 feet. I couldn't find it back in 2024. I found something that's talking about 600 feet from your business, so I drew a circle circle in that circle area, and this is just using Google Earth. I zoomed in and counted 698 parking spots.

Right. Grand Summer Private— I didn't care, I just wanted parking spots. There is plenty of parking spots in town. City hired a consultant team to come in here and say that, and more or less what I got out of the The difference— there is no parking issue on the day-to-day operations. The special events come in, of course there's parking issues.

Who wouldn't? So what do we do? Ban special events? No more Christmas, you know, downtown. That's not how it works.

So the deal is there's plenty of parking to be had. I, I'm— I've heard it over and over again that, oh, that That, uh, the Depot parking will be my private parking lot. That's public parking. Anybody can park there. You go there now— well, not now because nobody's downtown— but you go down there, that happens to be Vagabond Blues parking lot.

When I go in there to do work in my building, there's oftentimes I've got to park a little further away just because there is activities going on. I'm not whining about it. I walk to my building, do my work. People are used to walking. Um, anyway, I don't really have much to say.

You guys have the package in front of you. Hopefully you guys all read it, and I'm here to answer questions. I, um, and I just wanted to point that out. The other, other photos you'll see in there of emptiness. I was taken on a Friday night at 7:30 at night.

Looks like I can have a few of those parking spots if I had a restaurant.

That would be primarily dinnertime.

So anyway, I don't see that there's a parking issue. That's always brought up every conversation that's ever said. I think We all realize that in certain circumstances there are, you know, that's life. Special events happen. And asking for, in the day, asking for my original 6 parking spots, I didn't think was too much.

Again, going off the 10 that's already allowed, it's not going to cause any more. If that's okay, let's just say I open it up as retail. I'm allowed 10 parking spots. That means I can have 40 people running around parking wherever they want. That doesn't disturb businesses.

So is it the safety concern based on because Bare Naked wants to move in there, or is it actually the fact of that I would be generating more traffic if I'm limited to 10 spots? It's no more than I got now. So there should be no additional harm, foul, whatever you want to call it, to any other businesses than it is sitting retail. We're going to do that. Just give me the 1 parking spot and let me open up retail for 4 people.

That's not the intent. The intent of this whole variation, in my opinion, anyways.

Let me get to my. Thing here.

Is that not the intent of the variance, is to allow growth and to prosper? I'm not, I'm not asking for anything other than what it already has, honestly. Um, anyway, kind of stumbled over everything. I'm here to answer questions. Does anybody have any questions that that they need to go.

Oh, one last thing I want to add on there, and I'm in agreement. So right now what I'm being told is, if this is the way it is, it's 100% this panel's decision. I got to get 100% of their vote, whereas if we had a full staff, it's down to 58%. So I want it in record that I feel a little cheated that I've got to get 100% participation from the commissioners to grant this, whereas if we were at a full house, it'd be 58%. Now, if you all vote yes, well, then I have no problem.

But I just want it on record that, that I'm in agreement that this is a disadvantage to me.

Anyway, I'm here to answer questions. I don't know.

Sure.

I'm not sure that's being asked for any other business downtown. I mean, does Back of the Blues have a variance in front of them asking how they're going to direct traffic for their business. So, no, I'm not going to have a person standing out front saying, you can park here, you can park here. I know that the general parking lot's available. I know that Wells Fargo's offered up their spot.

Contrary to the neighbor changing his mind, he had offered me the dental parking lot behind his building, store frontage up front. Those are all available parking. What's going to eliminate the parking in my business is by the limited seats. I have 40 seats in there. Sure, let 100 people, 100 cars drive up.

They're going to turn around and drive right back out because, one, there's no parking for them, two, I can't accommodate it. So your question is, is what am I going to do to alleviate other concerns in parking? I'm not going to stand out there and direct traffic to where people can park or not. I don't know if that's where you're going with that.

Hey, I don't have a parking lot. I want to be good neighbors, so be mindful of this lot.

Yeah, would that requirement be if I make it— made that retail, you'd want the same requirement for me to reach out on public service and say, hey, I got a retail building that's got 10 spots, please be mindful that that's all I got. So, I mean, the same criteria meets if I'm sitting there as retail, but that's never been granted or requested as far as I know from the existing retail. So I don't want to— I don't understand why we're treating this any different than if I open it up as a retail, because I would have 10 Gotcha. Well, the, the variance request is based on the need.

Okay, I didn't, I didn't build this building. I wasn't around when this happened. The city surrounded it, and right now it's limited. And it's grandfathered as retail.

And the deal is, is because I want to make a request to change the venue is now making it unusable. Because who's going to open up a restaurant, 4,800 square foot for 12 people? Not too many. Bad business.

That's where the variance comes in. The variance, I thought, was the idea is you guys would read the rules and say, hey, he still has 10 parking spots for retail. He's not asking for anything more than those 10. And yeah, this thing's boogered up so bad that it can't be. I even made a comment and I knew I was in trouble.

They're in the counseling or the chamber, uh, whatever, city council meeting. I asked, you know, what am I going to do with this building? Can I make a funeral home? And, and some wisecrack on the, on the panel, yeah, as long as you don't have 10 bodies in it.

That's, that's not beneficial to business, and that's all I'm trying to do. All I'm trying to do is establish a business in Palmer. Bring more customers to Palmer, spread my food instead of my food truck. That's it. You know, honestly, this was a bad, bad business move on my part.

I'm out about $400,000 on the rental place that I sold to buy this building. It's sitting there doing exactly nothing for me. And I guess I'm fine with that. I mean, that's what I thought the variance was for. Is to say, hey, this building is boogered up.

Back to what they say and what I think you guys have the availability to do, you guys can put limits or considerations on this variance, meaning, you know, I'm not going to build a third story, I'm not going to build any of that. So I'm fine with a constricted variance on that building, and it should be. You shouldn't be able to build a 5-story thing in there and expect it to be unlimited parking just because I got a variance waiver approved in 2026. So, I can see it. I don't, I don't have room for any more than 50 customers.

So that's my max limit. And I don't even know by the time I design it. I might not even have seating for that. But back to your question, where's people going to park? Public parking.

There's, there's adequate public parking. You know, the city spent a lot of money on the side, side of the depot there, added a bunch. I think there's what, 30, 36 parking spots there? Sits empty. So does it limit— you still ask questions or no?

Oh, okay.

Sorry, now you like these two.

If you in there, basically this is just paperwork.

No, no, I see what you're saying. The bottom line is I don't have parking, so I'm relying on public parking to park. The city expanded the side, the depot, the depot parking. If I want to, if I want to park my food truck and block off 3/4 of that parking lot with my food truck, I'm entitled to. I go get— if I go get that, uh variance to let me roll— it used to be called the roving travel license.

I, I forget what it's called now. As long as I'm 100 feet from any other competing business and then the same type of retail, I'm allowed— I'm allowed— I'm allowed to get—. I'm allowed to park there. I'm allowed to park pretty much anywhere I want if I have that license in Palmer, as long as I don't infringe on competing like businesses. So the deal is, I don't know where all these customers are going to park.

As I mentioned, go to Google Earth, 698 parking spots are within 600 feet of my building. Now, what is the percentage of those of private to not private? I have no idea. That's counting the bank parking lot, which they said I can use. It's counting all the little street parking, because if you count 600 feet, 600 feet, 25 feet.

I mean, how much does that add, right? So that, that's kind of how I went with it. Um, I know that's not all valid, but I know that Palmer should be able to accommodate 10 parking spots. Now, where, where these people are parking, you know, I don't know. I mean, am I, am I gonna, am I gonna put a sign in front of my business saying No vagabond blues park here.

No. Should I put a sign in front of my property that's public parking saying bare naked parking only? No, I'm not doing that either. Um, you know, it is— if, if, if it's such an inconvenience for somebody that has to park even down here by, uh, where they do flighty fling, they're not willing to walk from there to my restaurant to have a burger or whatever I'm serving. And I guess they don't need to eat.

That's their choice. I mean, they have the option to walk as far as they want. You know, people walk quite a bit to go to the fair. And again, I ask you to look at my snapshots at 7:30 on a Friday night. I don't see how I'm going to infringe on too many people at all.

I don't know if that answered your question or not. Okay, sorry, I rambled.

No, hold on, I, I disagree with that. The variance is not that. I can have a restaurant in that building right now, but it's limited to 12 to 15 customers. So the usage is my choice. I can make it this, I can make it a massage parlor, I could just make it a Ding Dong shop and sell Hostess cupcakes.

Whatever I wanna do with it, I gotta meet the criteria of the new rules. But because I'm grandfathered as retail, then I'm no longer really, even though I think it meets the rules because of the square footage of my building.

So, sorry to step on you there.

0.0 Central District. Reason why we're— applicant is requesting the variance, choosing to change the occupancy.

Currently it's the parking row. As I stated earlier, with calculation, we tell that property once it doesn't expand, you model it to an extent to go where it extends, or extends the— always, and can always be, you know, that space essentially giving each other would equate for 10 spaces for the code. Doesn't have to have to add code. So, and alternatively, they use it triggers and basically takes them out of— have to address the issue. And now on paper asking, saying I triggered the moment.

Now I have to follow code for part specifically.

Difference from any, it is his own fault, of his own fault, or their fault, is the picking tendency of the breed.

1764.070, Which is the non-conformity language in there that talks about expanding the non-conformity. That's what you guys need to focus on, is the expansion of non-conformity creating this word variance. And Troy had mentioned conditions to this new code, 1776, which is variances, subsection 060, club conditions, kind of like zoning special limitations, construction special limitations. Make the property bigger, do certain things, creating safety measures essentially, neighbor they have those conditions as well. In this case, that's up for you guys to discuss.

Thank you for clarification. Are there any questions from Mr.

Anyone else have to have other testimony to speak to ourselves?

Okay.

Okay. Michelle Kincaid. Um, I want to clarify, the Select Building got a waiver. Um, the barbecue place tried for a waiver and it was declined. So considering the waiver that somebody else got in this case, I believe is wrong.

Um, the retail store had one level, so when you're calculating the space of the building, you can't calculate the whole building. The basement was an apartment, and you might check with council because he might be out of compliance and no longer have grandfather rights. There's some land use that after 100 days, 180 days, you lose your grandfather rights. There's also some rules about that as far as structures go as well. And there's nothing wrong with the lot.

This is a wedge and this is the size of the lot. It's a corner lot. It has 3 streets on each side. So when you're using that because there's a railroad, there's no place to expand. Well, he went and asked the neighbor to purchase property before he bought it, and they said no, but he went forward with it again.

And even his own testimony, he knew it was limited. So you can't say that there's 10 parking spaces there because there were not. And when you talk about— you guys are giving away everything. A variance gives him everything. And when you talk about code, the 1 per 5 on restaurants, well, that is not how many people really park there.

And if you look at the Feather and Flower, they had 35 seats, required 7, 7 parking spots. Day in and day out, there was 22 cars there. That's 300% more than what code requires. And so when he's talking about a meeting room downstairs, It's not 1 per 5, it's almost 1 per 1. Everybody drives their own car.

I drove my own car. I don't know if you guys all drove, maybe somebody walked, but everybody drives their own car. And so we're not talking about 10 spaces, we're talking about a lot of spaces. And then when you look at the depot, um, it's busy. So is it going to be closed every time there's a depot event?

And when you talk about the waiver for the Selleck building, that waiver gave them the depot parking already. So how many times are you going to give away the depot parking? And at the last testimony, he said if he couldn't park at the depot, he was going to tell them to park on my private property. And, and that's just not right. Um, so the meeting room would be devastating.

The meeting room would take up about 26 or 28 just for the basement meeting room. And so, 1, if he has a 50-seat place, um, it's 40% more than, than the Feather and Flower. So that's probably almost another 20 or 30 cars for just the 50 seats. So you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't get a variance and then say, oh, we're going to go with this code that isn't really real parking.

So, Thank you very much, and, and please, please consider all the facts and how injurious this would be to everybody. Thank you.

Sure, we want to. I'm not scared of— so we relaxed the rules for the first audience, so now this is— I just want to make sure that I'm not being— yeah, and just, and just so you know, other than If you will go ahead and allow more people speak, and Mr. Vincent have an opportunity.

My name is Lori Koppenberg, and I want to make this, um, a public known fact. I am no longer associated with Vagabond Blues, or I will not be very soon. So for Mr. Vincent to continually bring us up. We have very limited time with that business. I am here as a public person that knows Palmer pretty well and what we've gone through.

I just want to share with you, staff findings should be objective, not subjective, and in this case they are very subjective. Staff has misapplied code in this instance. This commission should request legal opinion on the correct process for this request. In addition, the road or the side street between the depot and the Tesco building, it's a road, and there are legal setbacks from that. You can talk to Jude and he will inform you that those are legal setbacks and they have nothing to do with crosswalks.

I am all for Mr. Vincent getting his barbecue place somewhere in Palmer. This is not a personal attack on him. However, he chooses to make it a personal attack on us when we have some concerns about parking. Parking has been an issue in our town forever. You allow it this one time for this one place, you will be required to allow it for every single business property that meets these exceptions.

I don't have enough parking, but I'm going to do an event center. Um, the old Chase Building, they want to do an event center. That's what they've talked about in the past, where they park in the depot and everywhere else. There's other properties in town that don't have parking. They will be coming to you asking for the same exception.

Are you ready to do that? And is the city taking on the fiscal note to pay for all the public parking and the maintenance and requirements? If you are, you need to extend that same consideration to every private parking business in this city. And allow them the same benefit through a tax write-off or a tax benefit if you're going to pay for private business to continue in this way. Thank you.

A few things, set the record straight. It is true I went next door to the neighbor prior to buying the building, and he agreed to sell me prior to my building. 3 Different times he's made concessions to me And only after I inquired with him, why have you changed your mind now?

He said, and pointed to the ladies, which is that lady right there, kind of boozling, and did not sell it. That's on the side note. Prior to buying it, I went to Wells Fargo, asked about their parking. I saw their little sign basically welcoming anybody to use their lot after 5 locks. So I went and asked, they're like, use it weekends, we're not there, do what you want.

Monty Burke, which is the gentleman we're talking about, he conceded to let me use the back of his building for parking. I reached out to the Alaska Railroad. Evidently there's 9 different parcels that are between the Home Depot or the depot and skateboard park. City owns every one of those. I asked them Well, if I got the city to relinquish the portion that's behind my building, could I then put a parking lot?

And they're like, you can put whatever you want as long as the city doesn't own the lease. So when I did ask Brad Johnson— I said that, that is his name, right? Brad— oh, Hanson, sorry. Um, I said, hey, would you be willing to release the lease that you got with the railroad to accommodate this parking issue that we're having? Because it was my understanding too, is about 17, 20 years ago they had plans to pave that street, make it a one-way street, make everything angled parking.

Monty showed me the— all the details, and you know, that is additional parking there. Even on these special events, you see parking up and down that road, even though there's not little yellow signs still people they can park there or not. That's just what happens. So anyway, um, again, lots of, uh, I don't know what meeting room she's talking about. At the beginning, uh, 3 years ago, I was thinking of having a meeting room down there, a little bigger room for people.

I don't, I don't have the space. That's going to be storage. So, you know, it was also mentioned, is not this meeting that I was going to ask him for 100 parking spaces. Again, another false narrative that's been spewed out there. So again, all I'm trying to do is open a restaurant.

I conceded down to 50 during that parking waiver program. I'm conceding now. I understand the variance should not be open-ended. That's why they got— you guys could make exceptions or What do you call it? Conditions, there you go.

And so I'm willing to work. I just wanna open a business. I've calculated based on what I can do just in my truck, I know what I can do there. The city's missing out on some tax revenue and not just $50 a month. And, you know, that's concerning too.

You know, cities, cities got to prosper. There's not one city probably in the country that doesn't cry about some type of parking issue or condition. Again, you guys hired somebody, they said there is none. I don't know what else to say. Anybody else have any questions for me in regards to my application, what I want to do, why I want to do what I want to do?

Okay, copy. Thank you.

But that's, that's an aside. Anyway, go ahead, Ms. Shermer.

Will be uncertain.

We cannot guarantee that we Is there a second?

So there's a motion to postpone until October 15th. Is there any discussion? I have one.

I would, I would, um, ask that each commissioner that is Commissioner Puryear. Commissioner Hunt is Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Lockhart? Can you have a teleprompter?

Take a short break.

On the agenda Uh, let's see. Each business.

Yes, unfinished business.

I'm making the motion for— Thank you, Commissioner Ferrier. Is there a second?

Thank you, Commissioner Hansington. Seconded on the motion.

Parking industry and access. Commissioner Fergie?

Yes. Jackson? Yes. And Commissioner— you've entered the poll at 7:40. Do you want a staff report?

You can identify the top 3 or top 4 that you would like to send to see. So then we are thinking around, um, inspecting within our service context, ages 55, 56, 57, 58, 59. Perfect.

Yes, there it is.

So, you should put this over—.

I think that we should take goal number 2, where it's in downtown, and I think that you take bicycle safety and put down so we've got light program there. I think the, um, activity, a different issue entirely. And I think downtown pedestrian beacons and the curves and crosswalk issues, the lighting, all of that stays as number one.

So you have the entire number one, which we That one would be the— are you on page 59? I am. Okay, that's— you're the only one. Okay, and then like I said, pull the bicycle safety out of that, uh, goal statement and put it down with the bike stuff. Would you 2.3, which I don't know how to go on that.

And the connectivity, I believe, is a separate issue.

Activity— connectivity is a concept that would be in a map form. Not—.

Let's let the pedestrian stuff be in one Yes, so I need to think there might be some sort of a— so this is pulled from the original matrix. From within that, you guys kind of— there were goals, strategies, and actions. You guys had goals, strategies, and actions, and actually included— so what I understand is it's not necessarily the whole company that's going to have to participate. You guys have identified I did memory circuit classes on 10 years, and it was—.

It was the big—. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily —go by. It was the strategies.

Yeah, I agree with that. So was the— so we kind of had a handicap here because you were missing?

No, I don't think so. I think you guys had to identify this is the strategy. So within the—. I'm sure is here to go and answer all these questions.

I think what would serve us best, Mr. Laffey, another question is if we wouldn't start on page 59 And we went through these and made sure these are in our direction and request we speak on— and then I say, help me, send back to staff, ask them to then So let's start on that page 59 regarding that one goal by— infrastructure by having— crosswalk positions, lighting at bridges. Streets. The Complete Streets is a, uh, used in the RESPECT study, and it is kind of a— I don't— I can't explain it.

Is that—. Is that my understanding of the time?

Is there anything that we would like to change in that 2.0 screen infrastructure?

I think we really— it's— it would be great, but I think achieve that I think it's just—. I think it's just a term that's used. We're saying we're planning a new street, we want to integrate program. Perhaps you need to understand what that would mean.

Yes, I think that everybody's knowledge. Let's use— I, I— a complete streets. I'm sure it's true to say handicap, uh, but it's a complete— for handicap, for bikes, for children, for old people. I mean, let's do that instead of using the phrase of This is pedestrian safety. Bottom line, it involves anyone that is walking.

And let's not do the bike first. Move the bike first down.

Madam Chair, can I make a comment about Complete Streets real quick? So the Municipal Planning Ord—. That's a— that is a federal term. Municipal Planning Organization is involved in doing Complete Streets, and it's— and it's—. And it is talking exactly— it includes all modes of transportation, whether it's walking, bikes, you know, any kind of trail system.

And it's— and it's also a connectivity thing. It's getting Complete Streets from trail to a street to a street. So my recommendation is leave the name Complete Street because it is a federal—. Federally recognized program, and it's something that the Municipal Planning Organization is also—. They're pursuing Complete Streets throughout our, our area.

As you know, I'm chair of them, so it, it's, it's an important title to keep. And I understand what you're saying, but when you talk about Complete Street, it includes all the things clear in what we're saying, what we actually mean. And if we want to put Complete Streets there, that's fine. I'm sure it does have a bearing in terms of funding as well. But I think what we want to do is make this as clear as possible.

And one of the problems with the Respect proposal is there's a lot of, uh, nomenclature vernacular that was relative to city planning and all that stuff, which I love. I majored in it, but doesn't hit locally. We don't, we, we don't need that. We need to be very clear about what we're talking about today. This one, what if a complete street sets fine with the really other things.

Other comments, Commissioner?

This is the Genesee Okay, we'll go ahead and do that. Ask staff to do that. You want to 2.2 to improve active transportation? That would also— 2.2 From the first one to where we— some pedestrians down activity in—.

Actually 2.2 is rather— the idea is after each I don't hear. So at this point, what is the mission on 2.2? Effective transportation, roadside walk paths, railroad right-of-way conversion to transit park, freeway maintenance, coordination transit. Doesn't probably matter.

Anyway, 2.3.

Yes, you don't have any terms though. I thought we had like before we got— we did. Now we have a lot more of them. This is under—. These are the strategies under the goal to improve downtown pedestrian and bike community.

This is the goal. That's one goal. Have 3 And I see 2, 3, actually there's 4. Yeah, so we have— this is part of the strategy to implement. Goal 1 was just to improve downtown.

Oh, actually, excuse me, Commissioner Hunt, that should have been Because that's the main goal, downtown pedestrian and bicycle safety. These are the strategies and actions to accomplish the goal and bicycle connectivity. So I think—. Comments on that. So my understanding So, that's selecting in Balance here.

And, and don't be confused with the 2 and the 3. That's, that's pulled from the stuff. Um, so yes, yes, you're correct. So it says 2.2. That should be your number.

But what it was is you pulled the goals from that. There was the strategies, the matrix. We're now looking at those strategies, saying like, say, do you want 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5? And if not, scratch Right? That's not a priority right now.

And then we're moving to the actions, selecting all of those, the 2.1 actions. Which ones do we want to select? Which ones out of the chaff, right? Basically pulling wheat from chaff away, and from that creating essentially what we want for the few days.

So you're, you're essentially drilling and fine-tuning what you guys want specifically in the action.

Identify the goals, strategies, carry over goals, name strategies, and what they actually want.

I'm fine with the way it is except that the bicycle park amenities— Any other comments on that?

During the— John, page 59, item 1.

Hearing none, I'm going to move on to page 60. Our goal was accessible, reliable, and safe year-round under 2 months.

Our strategy was to improve ADA accessibility and strengthen regional And it's emergency vehicle access. Action: get full ADA parking assessment, even the last time that was actually done. ADA assessment? Parking assessment facilities.

So that's, that's has been done and update that.

I think an action to improve ADA enforcement standards for— in signage, because I don't see down streets. So that's probably a priority. So going on to number 3.2, standard snow removal manual. You talked about that for the business. There's also the comment from the audience and also myself the city to take up being the sidewalks, particularly up through including Palmer Park, to keep it consistent and, uh, depreciate our businesses.

And for the pedestrian that wants to get out of the car and not step over, be over snow, because one person did this and there's no connection. So I think I'd like to— manual, actually, let's take that out and see about having, having that new, that particular area. Does have —engage the audience. And my understanding is, is that Public Works does have kind of a guideline for businesses of like how the operations happen, um, pushing snow out of the road and that. Yes.

Yeah, so when we went through this particular part of some of the, uh, conversations I was having with expansion, maybe that favor expansion or clarification.

It would be helpful if the city helped us know a little more as a business owner, like you collect all the taxes And the city doesn't block, but you don't feel like anything affects you. But snow removal affects everybody. There's vacant lots, nobody does them, and so there's no consistency. And there isn't the lot with the city. They might text you at 3:00, snow removal in the middle, but if you're not there to push it out the middle of the road, then it There's all kinds of rules, can't they, like Palmer Bar and stuff?

They don't have anywhere sidewalk is there. Thank you, Chris. So let's leave the snow removal manual in there because that would be applicable to other businesses that are not on— I would like to see public work cleaning the sidewalks in the core area. Okay, unless no.

Okay, and then emergency vehicle access stripe and sign at fire station 3.31. Just 31. Is that an issue that we need to take care of?

So there was conversation, uh, and that's why it's on here, is that right behind us, it's kind of a trifactor. Like, not to— has half this lot, actually the whole thing. And then City Hall essentially has a portion of the parking right behind the building. And then of course 3-1, their spots. We have had loose conversation about striping parking spaces that could be accounted for.

There's a little bit of a hint of this dialogue of whether we striped in red or not, um, so that's where that came from, conversation we had about —consultant would like to maybe take an initiative to have designated volunteer fire—. Will 31 still be—. This is Bill. Sure, it will be because Station 39 is not, it's not 100% calling PFR. Um, they, they have essentially the borough subsidizes, but the borough kind of pays for certain things because Palmer Fire and Rescue does things in the greater Palmer area, outside the city limits, and therefore there's a sharing of funds that have come PFR.

So it's not 100% still going to be sad for Soviet residents in the next years. That's a no, maybe.

I think that should still be a conversation that we should make up. Any other comments on the issue of Sprague and Sun? Any other comments on that area under the 413 accessible sidewalk and safe parking mural?

Okay, moving on to goal listed as 5, build a comprehensive event parking and mobility program, event parking master plan, um, define, define expectations for event sizes. I think there was also in this a discussion, it was the next group, about, um, vendors, staff, volunteer, partners, event maps, and walking routes. Over on page 61, and similarly, I had seen, uh, program for— oh, that sounds very Bob. Uh, oh, one. Okay, that's your best.

Right. Yes, don't like that we have—.

I'm sorry, did you don't like that we have what? 5.2. So we are particularly— I thought we generally agree time, and that's something that is sitting, not stopping. Julie had a public hearing, seemed to be about how parking spaces were intended to be acquired at various points. That's not something we saw for Ben or else.

Any other comments on that?

With top things and age, that this is all very— want to make specifically, and there's just then traffic management and— sorry, it's all good stuff, but Up, we were going for safety aspects priority and not to have pages of other options so the city council could look at different options, different ones, sure that we're definitely the highest priority. So let me rephrase what I believe I heard you say. The other aspects that came forth, that, um, and, and the recommendations that they had, we came up with the 3 issues— excuse me, 4 issues that we felt were most— what you're saying now is what you would like to see us work on, very specific steps rather than not taking the verbiage out of the study but saying we want things.

I think some clarity is necessary. Maybe the way you said it is—.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

Okay, going forward, and the fact that Kim is not here, she She was instrumental in making the list for us and getting prepared for doing something to pass up to city council as far as our recommendations. What is your recommendation for us to do tonight? And then go— I would suggest distilling this list down to Action items. Any other commissioners feel on that?

Commissioner Laffey?

All have very flat names. And, you know, if you're just going to send this whole list right here, basically suggestions to— shorten the list.

All right, Commissioner Ferguson, would you like to start and talk to us?

This is just like I'm From all the commissioners, um, to study over this ourselves, bringing back our ideas, but again, bring self-reflection.

Next meeting.

Sorry, completely off topic. Do you have our own email?

Yes, you go to the city's website. I have found those, those email— here, totally off topic. Point of order. Point of order. Yeah, okay, we are in community hall, but we don't want to get too deep in CPC.

All right, is there anything else that we want to us this evening. And when we do come out of the committee hall, would you want to have an— excuse me— a motion ready to move forward? Anybody prepared to do that?

Are we done?

Yes. And if so, I need someone to make a motion that we come out of the committee hall.

That we come out of the hall. Second, the second that we come out of the committee, the hall. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed?

And we are out of committee, the hall. Is there a commissioner that would like to make a motion concerning working and administering things? Commissioner Lathey, the chair of I move that we, that we direct—. So be two parts— direct staff to make changes we have suggested, city of Hull, to this spreadsheet, and then take I am— October.

Thank you, Commissioner Lafferty. Is there a second?

Thank you. And seconded. Um, then both I don't think any— that back. Okay, all those in favor? Opposed?

Hearing no opposed, motion to please read this has passed. I have a motion to strike these back to the Right, perfect. Thank you so much. Okay, um, new business. IM 26-018, Committee of the Whole, possible subcommittees.

We have a motion to enter Committee of the Whole.

I should have a motion.

I, I think that's a great idea. Is there a second? The second motion, I move business item IM 6-0 discussion, subcommittees, um, should be on.

Thank you. Is there a second?

Thank you. It's been moved and seconded that we move IM26018, discussion of possible subcommittees, to the October meeting with the Health and Human Services Ethical Commission, um, discussion Seeing no discussion, uh, for you a vote. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed, hearing none opposed, the motion passes. I give you to vote aye.

Okay, moving, moving on to Adam Kaye plat reviews. There are no plat reviews. Uh, public comments, is there anyone in the audience who wish to to speak at this time. Address your remarks to the chair, state your name. You have 3 minutes.

She wants to go home.

Michelle Kincaid. Um, so I just was looking over the, uh, 17.68, and when it goes into the grandfather rights on the land, you can lose the grandfather rights in 180 days. And on the structure, when a non-conforming use of a structure or structure and premises in combination is discontinued or abandoned for 12 consecutive months, except when government action applies to the premise. Um, I believe that it's saying that you need to start to comply with the codes, but I've got some copies of that code that you guys all should look at. But I believe that the grandfather rights on that property no longer exist, and I think it's very important important that you don't consider that 10 parking— what he's talking about, uh, there wasn't 10 parking spaces there.

That's public parking. So he has a couple, 2 or 3, I'm not sure what's determined on the street, but you can't consider that whole building. You need to take out for the parking lot— or not the parking lot, for the apartment downstairs. I wanted to mention, I have— there's nothing unique about this property. I have a property that's 22 feet wide, and it doesn't even have enough to qualify for 1 street parking, and I lease it out to the Sentinel.

But if they— if the lease— he wanted a 15-seat ice cream shop, we couldn't have it because we don't have that many parking spaces. So I know people want the barbecue. And everybody has compassion, but he bought the wrong building. It just doesn't have the parking. And you can have them close when the depot's open, because when the depot has a function going on, it can take up all of the parking and the street parking.

And so he's relying solely on public parking. And so when his customers come and take street parking away, from like the dentist or across the street, we had to count that street parking to meet code. So if you're going to give him a variance and 50 places could have 30 cars and they take up all the street parking, I'm out of compliance with the code. And so where do my customers park then? So a variance doesn't work for parking.

So look at the depot pictures, look at the lot. It's not a wedge lot, it has nothing to do with the railroad right away, it has 3 streets around it. You can see the Colony Street right there. Some people didn't know that that was a road going into the depot. Really important to really look at how much impact Feather and Flower had.

This article was done in 1922 from Manager Moosey. And he put it in here that it's a problem. And up in the article before it, it says the Eagle Hotel was required by code to buy additional parking. So, thank you very much.

Oh, uh, Manager Musi, uh, he was a previous city manager. He's the one that did those articles. And so they're not just made up. That was a— important individual that—.

Hi, my name's Marty Kincaid, and, um, the only reason I'm speaking is because Troy did this 600-foot circle, but if you look at the map, it includes the parking behind the Vagabond Blue is the Kozlowski Building, the Valley Hotel, Turkey Red, the parking that the hotel bought to meet code compliance across the street from the hotel. And so that is like, well, about the 600 parking spaces he was saying, oh, you know, there's plenty of parking. No, there isn't. It's because private individuals met code, they pay for the parking, they pay for the maintenance, and now one individual, because he made a bad business decision. When I make a bad commercial investment, I don't put it on anybody else to absorb my mistake.

I bear the cost, I sell the building, I move on. There were plenty other buildings that would be great for a barbecue. We want a barbecue, there's no doubt about it, but just not in that location. Thank you.

Lori Kopenberg. Is the light on, Liz? Yeah, can you— you can hear me? Okay. So again, I am here as a private property owner and not as a business owner.

Um, I recognize each of you are aware that as a quasi-judicial body, and the proceedings held and voted on by you must be clear incorrect in your interpretation. It is in the best interest of this body to have a legal opinion before your next hearing regarding Resolution 26-010. It's important to follow code, and the correct legal interpretation of code must come from this body. It can't be a subjective opinion from staff findings. A legal opinion you must ask for before your next hearing.

Thank you.

I haven't know.

Say no.

Just, um, That's me. Hi, Malu.