Alaska Legislature: House Resources, 4/20/26, 1pm

Good afternoon. This meeting of the House Resources Committee will now come to order. It is now 1:40 PM, Monday, April 20th, 2026, in Capitol Room 124. Members present are Representative Hall, Representative Mears, Representative Prox, Representative Elam, co-chair Representative Freer, and myself, co-chair Representative Dybert. So please let the record reflect that we have a quorum to conduct business.

Please take this time to silence your cell phones for the duration of the Thank you. And before we begin, I'd also like to let the record reflect that we have been joined by Representative Fields at 1:41. I would like to thank Cheryl Cole from Records and Renzo Moises from the Juneau LIO for staffing the committee today.

Today in House Resources, we will take up consideration of the governor's appointee, Julie Vogler, to the Regulatory Commission of Alaska, or RCA. Who flew down to Juneau to be with us here today. After that, we will hold our first meeting on Senate Bill 230, Jonesville Public Use Area, from Senator Raucher. I would also, before we begin, like to welcome Senator Nelson to the, to the resources room. Thank you for being here.

Rep—. Oh, Representative Nelson. The Regulatory Commission of Alaska, RCA, consists of 5 commissioners. Appointed by the governor and confirmed by the legislature for 6-year staggered terms. The commission regulates public utilities and pipelines, ensuring safe service and reasonable rates, with its main office located in Anchorage.

Ms. Vogler began serving the state of Alaska in 2004. Prior to her appointment, Commissioner Designee Vogler served as utility master analyst at the RCA. Commissioner-designee Vogler received a Bachelor of Business Administration Finance from UAA in 2001 and a Bachelor of Business Administration Accounting from UAA in 2011. Ms. Vogler, welcome to the House Resources Committee. Please come to the table, state your name and affiliation for the record, and begin your statement.

And as you are settling, Ms. Vogler, let the record reflect that we have been joined by Representative Klum at 1:43.

Good afternoon. For the record, Julie Vogler, RCA Commissioner. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I was appointed— excuse me— appointed by Governor Dunleavy on March 11, 2026, for a 6-year term to replace Robert M. Pickett. I meet the statutory qualifications to be appointed as a commissioner.

I earned 2 bachelor's degrees, finance and accounting, from the University of Alaska Anchorage and have over 21 years of regulatory experience. Thank you. Sorry. I began my career at the RCA in 2004 as utility financial analyst 1, the entry-level position in the finance series. I progressed through the series and in 2015 became the analyst for an advanced level position that also included supervisory responsibilities.

In this role, I temporarily served as the Advisory Section Manager and was responsible for supervising and overseeing the work product of both the tariff section and the finance section while maintaining my workload. In 2022, my progression continued. And I became a utility master analyst. I have played a role in the Power Cost Equalization, or PCE, program since I joined the Commission in 2004. For the first few years, I managed the PCE program for non-economically regulated utilities, and several years later, when staff limited— staff resources were limited, I again managed the program, ensuring that timelines were met.

In my supervisory role, I provided guidance and reviewed the work product of the analyst that managed the PCE program, and most recently as a master analyst, I provided extensive training to the newly hired analyst one. I was fortunate early on in my career to have the opportunity to be assigned complex rate filings as advanced-level analysts left the Commission. I took that as an opportunity and started teaching myself all things rate-making. I was assigned as staff on dockets and filings for all utility types which included surcharge filings, rate filings, gas sales agreements, regulatory assets, and regulatory dockets, to name a few. As I advanced through the finance series, assigned filings became more complex, some being controversial and precedential in nature.

Furthermore, the commissioners often relied on me for guidance on matters that I was not the assigned staff but had the subject matter expertise. As a master analyst, I was an advisor to the commissioners providing guidance in the decision-making process and performing qualitative and quantitative analysis on both complex and non-complex matters for regulated utilities and pipeline carriers, and also non-economically regulated utilities. In both my finance and master analyst roles, I mentored, trained, and provided guidance to staff members in other sections of the agency, developed and implemented procedures to provide consistency amongst the advisory sections, developed agency-wide procedures and workflows, collaborated with management to develop section-specific procedures and workflows, and most recently developed the procedure for the annual regulatory cost charge calculation. For the last 2 years, I have been the lead legislative liaison for the Commission, which includes communicating and meeting with legislators and staff, presenting before committees, attending committee hearings to be available for questions, and reviewing and drafting of fiscal notes. In my role as a commissioner, I continue to be involved in all legislative matters before the RCA.

As an analyst, I was responsible for thoroughly reviewing the record in the proceeding, whether it be a PCE filing, a tariff filing, a docketed matter, ensuring compliance with applicable statutes and regulations, and providing the Commissioners with a thorough analysis and recommended path forward. I was objective in my review and analysis, which resulted in recommendations that were also objective. This is a skill set that I have now and bring with— bring with me in my role as a Commissioner. In closing, my education, regulatory experience, and institutional knowledge allowed me to immediately transition into the role of the Commissioner. I look forward to continuing to serve as a commissioner at the RCA.

I am excited for this opportunity and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Vogler, for your testimony and for your service to the state of Alaska. Um, before we go to questions for the committee, I'm going to let the record reflect that we've been joined by Representative Sadler at 1:45 PM. Are there any questions from the committee members?

Representative Sather. Yes, thank you very much, Madam Chair. Ms. Vogel, I'm going to jump right into it. We have legislation in the House and Senate, both sides. I think SB 180 is the current version which addresses whether the RCA has regulatory authority over liquefied natural gas facilities that are permitted by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

Do you believe that the RCA has regulatory authority over siting and construction of a FERC-permitted LNG plant? For the record, Julie Vogler through the chair, Representative Sadler, no, we do not. FERC has the jurisdiction over the siting and construction of the LNG import facility. Thank you very much, Ms. Vogler.

Thank you, Representative Sadler. Are there any other questions? Representative Prox. Yes, thank you. Just a comment, or I guess a request.

I'm really glad that you're sticking in there, and obviously you have a lot of experience.

The Regulatory Commission of Alaska webpage document filing system is very difficult to follow for somebody who hasn't worked there for 20 years. Do we have any opportunities that you might know of to improve that, make it more accessible to ordinary people? For the record, Julie Vogler, through the chair, Representative Prox, we are in— we will be implementing a new case management system. That case management system will replace what we have now, which is directly tied to our website, and one of our goals is to make it more user-friendly. Representative Prox.

Well, just comment, I might give you a hug if you accomplish that. For the record, Julie Vogler. I'll let you know, Representative. Thank you, Representative Prox. Representative Elam.

Thank you, uh, thank you for coming in and for serving and everything. And then I just, um, I guess I'm kind of curious what your perspective or opinion might be on, on the RCA and areas where there might be strengths, weaknesses, improvements. What's the vision for where it's going over the next 6 years? For the record, through the Chair, Julie Vogler, Representative Elam. So we have been— there's going to be strengths and weaknesses in any agency.

We have been focused on trying to build our staff because we have had staff turnover. So initiatives have been taken to turn a position, let's just say if it's a Financial Analyst 1 position, Making that a position that can be a 1, 2, 3, so progression can inter— can happen internally, and so that in the agency we can keep people for longevity as they are trained up. I think that we— having that diverse group of commissioners and the different skill sets that they add will help in the decision-making process. And we will have— we do have, as we all know, we have complex matters that will be— the Commission will be faced with regarding gas supply, et cetera. We will just do what we can to make the best decisions.

Follow-up, Representative Belem. And so what kind of vision do you have for the RCA for the next 6 years? For the record, through the chair, Representative Belem— Julie Vogler, sorry. So the vision would be we have— so the chairman of the agency is really who manages the agency itself, and I think we all work together for our vision and to make sure that there's safe and reliable service and providing just and reasonable rates to the consumers.

Thank you, Ms. Vogler. Representative Sadler had a question. Thank you. Ms. Vogler, are there— and it's kind of a standard question I like to ask appointees to these commissions. Is there any way, place in the RCA's organization where it's not, not up to its responsibilities?

That is, do you have the staffing and resources and equipment, IT, etc., to fulfill RCA's substantial mission and responsibilities? For the record, Julie Vogler, through the chair, Representative Sadler, yes, we do. While we do have, um, some vacancies filled, we've filled them, but we're meeting all of our statutory timelines. Follow-up, Representative Sadler. Thank you.

And, you know, you can't get promoted until you have a replacement trained up. Do you have somebody— is there somebody at RCA who could conceivably step in to take your old job? For the record, Julie Vogler, through the Chair, Representative Sadler, that is a tough question that I will leave and defer to the Chair of the agency to answer, who is not testifying today. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh, Representative Mears. Uh, thank you. Uh, through the chair to Commissioner Vogler, um, thank you for being here today. Um, I wanted to share, uh, really with the committee that, uh, we— our office has, has worked with you, um, on legislation and, uh, in the context of the, the Energy Committee. Um, for those that haven't noticed, the RCA is online very frequently, uh, to answer questions.

Particularly in that, in that committee. And you were often asked to fill that role when, as a staff member, when commissioners were in hearings, which does take up quite a bit of time, and there's a lot of that work going on. So I don't really have a question for you today. I just kind of wanted to share my experience with the Commission of working with you as a staff member. It is a challenging agency to understand.

I very much echo Representative Prox's thoughts on that, and I think we are all— if we've got the space for the homework to learn more about what, uh, what y'all are doing, we do have some time for that tomorrow scheduled in House Energy for tomorrow at 1 PM. So as we take on our work tomorrow morning, I hope we'll keep that in mind, and that there's more we can learn about what you guys do, because it's really important role for consumer protection in the state. Thank you. Thank you for that, and looking forward to that hearing and learning more about it. Representative Sadler.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To Ms. Vogler, are there any trends— I see you have extensive experience and training in the regulatory world, which is its own strange world, I understand. Are there any trends in utility regulation, either by federal law or economic trends or state law, that the RCA is going to be facing during the pendency of your, I hope, upcoming term? For the record, Julie Vogler through the chair, Representative Sadler. That is a good question.

I am sure in the next 2— next 6 years we will be faced with several challenges. Right now we do have the tools we need through statutory authority, which of course are always subject to change if we need more. And then we have with the regulations reform of AO, Administrative Order 360, we are looking at cleaning up our regulations.

Follow-up, Representative Sadler? Thank you. What I'm looking for more, Ms. Vogler, is are there any— I know that there are regulatory commissions in every state. There are federal regulatory commissions. Are there any trends in that business, not merely RCA's operations and statutory framework.

But is— what should we look forward to that we don't know we should be looking forward to? Is a strange way to ask the question, but where is the industry going? What are we going to be dealing with the next 6 years? For the record, Julie Vogler, through the chair, Representative Sadler. Honestly, I'm not familiar with what's going on with other commissions in other states, but we do know that we will be seeing with the importation of LNG, potential impacts of cooking, that gas supply dwindling, we will be faced with those issues.

Thank you, appreciate the answer. Thank you, Ms. Folkler.

Okay, going once, twice. Okay, see no further questions. I'm gonna go ahead and We will now move to public testimony on the Governor's appointee, Julie Vogler, to the Regulatory Commission of Alaska, or RCA.

First off, is there anyone in the room who wishes to testify? Seeing none. Now, is there anyone online who wishes to testify?

Seeing none, I'm going to go ahead and close public testimony.

And with that, I'm— do we have a motion? Thank you, Co-Chair Diver. In accordance with AS 39.05.080, the House Resources Committee held a hearing on Julie Vogler to the Regulatory Commission of Alaska. A signature on this report does not reflect an intent by any of the members to vote for or against the confirmation of the individual during any further sessions. [Speaker:DR. BETHANY BRAY] Thank you, Co-Chair Feer.

Hearing no objections, we will forward this name to the full hearing of the House and Senate. Please stick around to sign the committee report.

And thank you so much, um, Ms. Vogler, for being here today, flying down, being here in person. That means a lot. You're welcome. Yes, thank you.

I'm gonna, with that, take a brief at ease as we transition to the next item on the Back on the record in House Resources. We're going to move to our next item on the agenda, Senate Bill 230. Would Senator Rauscher and staff to Senator Rauscher please come forward, put yourself on the record, and introduce Senate Bill 230. To the committee.

Thank you, Chair Divert, and, uh, I'm sorry, Co-chair Divert and Co-chair Fryer, members of the House Resources Committee, for hearing SB 230. For the record, My name is Senator George Rauscher, District O. That's from Valdez all the way to Healy. So, uh, before diesel, coal ran the steamships, the war effort, heated the cities of Anchorage and Palmer, put the town of Sutton, Alaska on the map as the biggest supplier of coal available. As diesel replaced coal Evan Jones closed down his coal mine located just a few thousand feet above the town of Sutton, Alaska.

The mine workers once living in Mr. Jones' self-named area of Jonesville now populated the town of Sutton, and that town grew into what it is today along the Glenn Highway north of Palmer. In 2008, the Mining Reclamation Act of 1977 gave the state of Alaska $9 million, which they put toward reclaiming the Jonesville coal mining area where strip mining and tunnels were vacated. The project, led by Joe Wormer of the DNR, put out the still-smoldering underground coal fires flattened the old landing strip and placed 20 campsites along it. The project included widening and fortifying the web of coal trails and built solid gravel roads out of them, accommodating large motorhomes and parking areas for thousands of visitors expected to use the area, inviting everybody in the state to come and enjoy the 14,614 acres of abandoned coal mining leases. The one thing the state did not do, there was thousands of visitors, was to design a management plan as asked for by the Sutton Community Council back then.

The Jim Creek area in the Butte was just underwent a management plan to stop the lawlessness of car burning, shooting all hours of the night in all directions, car dumping, drug parties. Hikers and four-wheelers were all in danger there, so this, uh, This newly designed area right above the town of Sutton became the new dumping ground for cars to be hauled up there and burned, garbage to be dumped everywhere, trees to be mowed down by semi-automatic and automatic weapons and tennerite bombs. Bullets were now hitting cars and houses of folks living as far as a mile away and as close as a couple hundred feet. Bathrooms placed in the area were like porta-potties, were thrown into the lakes. Drug needles were now everywhere.

Boats were set on fire in the water while floating in the lake. Pavilion placed by the Matsubara was shot until it was left to its uprights barely standing. It had to be removed. Every year, the members of the Sutton community along with many recreational groups, cleaned the mess up in the spring at their own cost. Usability Coal Mine and Cruz Construction has helped in the cleanup in the past, as well as the DNR has had members come out.

But as many as 8 at, uh, probably 20-foot to 40-foot containers of garbage and other flatbeds for burned cars were removed each year in the beginning, and this was just 4 years after the work was completed by the DNR. In 2018, HB 6 was passed by unanimous 60 votes, which allowed the Jonesville area to become a public use area and could now have its needed management plan written by the DNR. It will never give back the life of a man who was killed by mistake as he wandered unknowingly between a shooter and a target, or help, uh, the teen who receives stray bullets to the leg while in a group of kids having fun up there, or help the little kids hit biotic control four-wheelers in the camping area. But hopefully the residents a few hundred feet away can stop living in fear of stray bullets hitting their houses or them. Tenorite bombs going off all hours of the night, blowing up cars and trees.

So what does this bill do? SB 230. One piece of state land was accidentally left off the survey. The DNR gave us that survey back, uh, for HB 6 when the legislation was passed years ago. It was— it's on the map in your folders.

It is right near the lake. Contains part of the cleared gravel area and is closer to private land and houses than the bulk of the area already included in the Jonesville Public Use Area and must also be managed. If not, this creates a dangerous situation for campers in the area and nearby homeowners as it escapes the no trash dumping regulations and the organized shooting allowed in the public use area. I hope this Committee will see the importance of the bill by passing and working with members of the community of Sutton to ensure the Jonesville Public Use Area will work for their safety and peace of mind. Thank you.

My staff, Isabel Ordez, would— could read this section if you like and also address any invited testimony. Wonderful.

Yeah, Mr. Das, how about would you like to read the— sectional?

For the record, Asplar Das, staff to Senator Rauscher, and I'll be reading the sectional analysis. So Section 1 amends AS 41.23286 to read Jonesville Public Use Area, updates the statutory boundary description of the Jonesville Public Use Area, and then Section 2 provides for immediate effective date.

Thank you, Mr. Dazs, for that. Okay, with that, and thank you, Senator Rauscher, for, you know, giving us a picture of this part of Sutton at a high level. And it sounds like it needs a lot of work. And I will now turn to 2.

Are there any questions from the committee? Representative Mears. Thank you. Through the chair to Senator Rauscher, I believe we have representative—. Did I say senator?

I hope I did. Senator Rauscher, I believe we have Representative Garrett Nelson in the audience because he has a companion bill that we heard over in Community and Regional Affairs. Are there any differences between the bill that the Senate passed and what we have heard on the House side that you're aware of? At this time, I'm not aware of any changes. There was a change in the Senate which did not make it into CS on the floor, so the bill should be almost completely exactly the same.

Through the chair, now, Representative Mears. This is Representative Rauscher. Thank you, Senator Rauscher. I'll get it. You're back on the House side.

You've backseated the House Resources Committee. Thank you. Representative Sadler and then Representative Klum. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Rashford, good to see you back in Resources.

I have a question for you. I'm looking at the map which you very kindly provided with a legend and everything. In Site Detail A, outlined in green and green hash blanks indicates the area that will be added to the Jonesville public land— public use area. Looks like there's a gravel pit or something or a pond or— what is the surface feature that I'm seeing in Site Detail A? For the record, Senator Rauscher, through the Chair, Representative Sadler.

So Detail A, which you're referring to, is a large— it's a very large parking area. It takes up many, many acres. That green area is about 80 acres. Okay, so that parking area takes up about 30 to 40 acres itself. Okay, now that area is, uh, was left out, and there is a lot of trash dumping.

There's cars being hauled up there and burned. And so basically, that's what that area— it's a very large, flat parking area.

[SPEAKING SPANISH] [Speaker:COMMISSIONER MILLER] Follow-up, Representative Sellner. [Speaker:COMMISSIONER SELLNER] Looking for agreement or not, and it sounds like given the essential purpose of this public use area that this is one of the hotspots and essential that it's included in the management, in the boundaries such that the management plan can apply to that. So I appreciate you bringing this forward. A different question, if I may, does this expansion create any challenges to the Department of Natural Resources effort to just, uh, to do its regulations to implement previous legislation? Senator Rauscher, through the chair, Representative Sadler.

Appreciate the question. Um, it charges— it changes nothing. This is 14,000 acres, and what this does, actually leaving it there is more dangerous than it is actually including it, because now the people can actually do what they want in an area extremely close to the rest of the parking area, the lake, the rest of the organized hobbies, so to speak, the recreational ideas that people have for utilizing the area are all kind of in— they're in jeopardy if this is not included. It was an oversight by the DNR, and we've seen those before. This is basically cleanup language.

I do want to say B, if you're wondering what the detail B is, detail B is borough land. Now the borough was included in this, and now we're excluding them because we don't have control as a state over borough land. It got included by mistake. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Senator.

Yeah, Representative Sadler, thank you. Senator, so the yellow area, detail B, the orangish area, that is area that is currently Matsuboro land that is being removed, or is that— I'm not quite sure what the detail B is actually showing me. Senator Rauscher. Senator Rauscher, through the chair, Representative Sadler. So for clarification, it exists as borough land, but it also exists in the control of this public use area by the state of Alaska.

And because they can't— we can't as a state control that, it needs to go back out of the picture, belong to the Matsu Borough where it actually belongs still.

And also for the committee's awareness, we do have Rachel Longacre, Chief Operations of Division of Mining, Land, and Water with DNR, to help us with any questions as well. I'm going to go ahead and go to Representative Calum. Thank you, Chair. Hi, Senator Rauscher. Good to see you.

So I think that kind of answered my question, was the, um, you've got an areas added and then you have areas that's removed. I can't really tell, it does, does this bill actually remove those two areas so they're borough land, or is it that that's just the status of what is now? Senator Rauscher, through the chair, Representative Colon. So, uh, thank you for, uh, clarification's sake. The land exists and it is owned by the Matsuburo in that yellow area, that rectangle.

It was included in our public use area, which we designated a public use area, which we cannot do that to borough land, right, because it is under their purview. So what we're doing now, if you look at the bill SB 230, it's kind of rewriting HB 6, omitting that part and including on line 24, page 2, the new section where the parking lot is. So what it did was it rewrote that section of the bill to exclude and include for you to— that's how it's written. Thank you. Follow-up?

Yep, follow-up. So this is designated a public use area. Does the— is the bill proposing that it go to a wildlife refuge or critical habitat or anything like that? Are we keeping it a public use area? Senator Rauscher.

Senator Rauscher, through the chair. Representative, um, Calom, appreciate the question. I really do, because it's confusing. It is. But we don't change anything.

That part is not in the bill which actually created the public use area. The part that you see right here is where we're designating which land is in there and which land is not. That's what you're actually looking at, that particular part of this, of the, of the equation. Not creating anything, not uncreating anything other than letting the Matsuburō's little chunk of ground out and our needed chunk in. Wonderful.

Representative Elam. Thank you. Good to see you again. And question for you about the, the gravel pit section. Um, is that— is— so is there a gravel pit or a parking lot there?

Senator Rauscher, through the chair, um, Representative Elam, thank you. It's, uh, it's actually a parking area in the green. Is that the question, or the yellow? Yes. Okay, so in the yellow, they're both parking areas.

Okay.

Thank you. Thank you. Representative Sattler. Thank you. I had the pleasure of watching now Senator Rauscher work long and hard to get the Jonesville public use area established, and it's clearly still near and dear to his heart.

And we know that occasionally, Mining Land and Water or whoever does the maps gets a little bit wrong. And I think this is really clearly a— this is the kind of bill that's simply a truing up or an adjustment of boundaries. Without other extra added agreements like other legislation we've seen. So I think this is an important thing to do. It looks like it's an important area for the operational and function of this area.

So I'm looking forward to voting for this to advance and pass into law so people in this area and in my area can go out and enjoy Jonesville safely and efficiently.

Wonderful. Thank you for your comments. Representative Sadler.

Seeing no further questions, we will now turn to invited testimony on Senate Bill 230. First up in the room, we have Representative Garrett Nelson, former chair of the Sutton Community Council. If you could come forward.

Yes, thank you, Representative Garrett Nelson. I'm here to speak in favor of this bill, and the reality is that this project has been going on— excuse me— for almost 2 decades, and the senator has been working long and hard on it. And the borough, all players are in favor of this, all interested parties, whether it's the DNR, the borough, the community, the off-roading community. 40% Of the people that come to this place actually come from the Anchorage area. And so we're moving forward with a plan that is actually on the cusp of being able to be realized.

So all this is doing, once again, as has been said, is cleaning up the boundaries a little bit, and especially adding the one piece is integral to the management plan that the borough is moving forward with. So I would just urge your support.

Thank you, Representative. Are there any questions from the committee? Representative Prox. For Representative Nelson. Thank you.

Through the chair, will be— will disposing of used automobiles still be allowed as a public use?

Through the chair, Representative Garrett Nelson. I doubt it.

All right, thank you, Representative Nelson, for your testimony. Next up online, we have invited testimony from Chris Spitzer, former chair of the Sutton Community Council, who is available online. Mr. Spitzer, if you can hear us, state your name for the record and begin your testimony.

Uh, yes, Chair, my name is Spitzer. I've been actively involved in the public affairs for many years. I supported the original legislation developed by George, and I worked with the Matsuburo and planning committee to help develop a management plan to be a model for how it will potentially be managed. I've also helped organize annual cleanups there for about the last 10 years or more. SB 230 is just a straightforward fix.

It corrects boundary issues so the area can be managed as it was originally intended. Uh, right now, inconsistent boundaries will create confusion, and it will really prevent it from functioning the way it's supposed to. Clarifying them provides a foundation for effective management, whoever ultimately takes that role. From my perspective, this bill supports long-term access by bringing clarity and consistency to how the area is handled. Um, thank you for your time.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Spitzer, for your testimony. Are there any questions from the committee for Mr. Spitzer?

All right, seeing none, we will now open up the SB— we will now open up Senate Bill 230 for public testimony.

Is there anyone in the room who wishes to testify? Seeing none.

Is there anyone online? Seeing none. Seeing no more individuals to— seeing no one online or in the room to testify, I'm going to go ahead and close public testimony. Okay, we will now hold the bill in committee until a future hearing. I am setting an amendment deadline to Senate Bill 230 for Friday, April 24th at noon.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator. So good to see you back here in House Resources, and thank you for all your work. Thank you very much. That completes the agenda for our House Resources Committee meeting today.

Our next House Resources Committee meeting will be on Wednesday, April 22nd. The time is 2:22 PM, and this hearing from the House Resources Committee is now adjourned.