North Pole: Budget Work Session - Administrative and Clerk/HR Budget

But all right, silence my phone. I've got to learn how to silence the watch.

Where are we live? Yeah, we are. All right, thank you very much. Welcome. Today we are doing our first round of budget workshops this evening here at the City of North Pole.

I suppose I should say the date today, the 27th of October. Thank you for joining us.

Um, we'll just kick right into it. Mr. Clerk, please. Roll call,. Please.

Yeah. Mr. McGee. Miss Rolfe. Here. Skips.

Here. Miss Barnett. Here. Mr. Schuster is not here yet. Mr. Claus.

Here. And Mayor Terch. Here. You have a quorum. Thank you, sir.

Where shall we start this evening with budget workshops?

I think we're going to start with the admin.

We are. Yep. Good evening, Will. There, do you have it up on the screen, Derek?

Hopefully it's. Showing. All right, good. Cool. So this is our, um, 2027 proposed budget for the admin department.

Not working. Not working. All right, we'll do it the old-fashioned way.

Uh, oh,.

It's working. There we go.

Here's our mission statement of our goals: transparency, information, accurate information, enhancing transparency. Identifying financial opportunities. Our current objectives: work with the auditors, keep the council and the mayor informed, and continue to provide access and, uh, employee training, professional development.

And get right into the revenues. These are our proposed numbers for the 2027 budget revenues.

Well, if you may, the other revenue sources at 422, will you drill into those a little bit? Sure. We have, uh, fire department revenue. Um, last 2 years we've budgeted for, uh, $6,000 to $7,000. $6,000 In '24, $6,000 in '25, $7,000 in '26.

And then this year we're staying at $7,000. At the time this budget was developed, this budget worksheet, we were at about 60% of our budget in July. So we're looking at about the same forecast for next year. The interest income is, uh, it's about $380,000 a year. Last year, that's how much we collected.

And this year we're on track to collect that much from our reserves. So $380,000. And then we have miscellaneous revenue for, uh, $35,000. Uh, last 3-year history tracks between, uh, $60,000 and $12,000, so we estimated right about the average there of $35,000.

That's a total for $422,000— fire department revenue, interest income, miscellaneous revenue.

For the record, Councilman Schuster has arrived. Thank you for joining us.

Any other questions about the revenue?

Our salaries and benefits, we have it about, um, let me just look at my sheet real quick. Yep, $714,873.

That is an increase from last year, and we also have another position that we are looking at adding possibly under that structure, so that's why there's an increase there. Our purchase services have increased $187,000. We're looking at $187,000. Last year we were at, uh, about $146,000, but, uh, costs have increased for IT and maintenance contracts. So those are the two bigger ones that have increased based off that.

Our operational expenses have— are at $50,000. And they're about the same average for the last 3 years. So those operational expenses consist of utilities, heating, electric, phone, data, postage, office supplies, promotions and apparel, and some publications and subscriptions.

Biggest one there is the office equipment and supplies. We're looking at getting some new laptops and desks.

Vehicle gas and oil, that's a reimbursement. Oh,. Skipped one. Oh,. I got you.

There you go. Oh, there we are. All right, leases and rentals, so that's the lease for the copy machine. And then we have some, uh, travel and training, and that also includes travel and training and then memberships and dues. So travel and training includes reimbursement for tuition expenses upon qualification, and then also any travel and training that admin and the mayor might do during the year— conferences or professional development training.

Vehicle gas and oil, that's the reimbursement for the mileage. Building maintenance, uh, possibly looking at getting some new windows. And then other is just miscellaneous expense.

24, We had about $6,000 with $8,000 spent. 25, We had $6,000 with just under, uh, $5,400 spent. So we're looking at that 3-year average of about $5,000 for miscellaneous expenses. That's all we have. Any questions for the admin expenses?

I got one, and that's just the decrease in electric. I understand the solar project, but I'm just curious when That was calculated when we thought that project would be finished. Do we have enough in for electric if we don't finish?

The decrease in electric is two parts, so it's the solar, and we're also looking at allocating some of the electric bills for this building to the HR and clerk department. Okay.

Yep. Could you go back to your slide where you were on personnel? I think was your second slide on expenses. Can you bring that up there?

Professional development and step increase for 2 employees. Is that new employees or current employees? Um, current employees. Current employees. Current employees.

Thank you.

Okay, any other questions? Please. Uh, under the salaries and benefits, uh, the— I guess the department's proposed budget and the mayor's proposed budget's, um, like $100,000-something difference. What's the difference between the two? Like, why are the numbers so Yeah, I'll.

Take that. Um, we had talked about hiring a chief of staff or someone in the mayor's office to assist the mayor in day-to-day work, grant writing, and also the transition period between mayors. As new mayors come on, it takes them a year, sometimes two, to get up to speed as to what's going on in the city. And having a chief of staff or someone in the mayor's office to assist in those transitional periods would be very beneficial. We have kicked around the idea, instead of having a chief of staff or city planner, to have an attorney in that position who would do grant writing at the same time and work out of the mayor's office.

Um, I We need somebody else in the city, in the mayor's office, and we're not exactly sure how that position is going to go. Originally, my thought was to do a city planner and grant writer, but the council voted by resolution to hire a director of city services. Um, my intent was to not hire a director of city services, turn the public utility supervisor into a department head, along with the utility supervisor into a department head.

And then move forth with a city planner. So we'll see where that goes. It's budgeted, but we'll see how that turns out. So what's the proposed salary on that? $120,000, I think, is what we had that at.

Is that correct, Will? Uh, right now it's at about $110,000. And then the intent was, since we've never had that position before, to hire them as a non-PERS employee, saving us about 22.5% in PERS and offering them some other form of retirement, whether that was a 3% match or come up with something that works for the city and for that employee.

Please,. I have a question on that, and, and refresh my memory how we did this last year. Was that the easiest way, or do we talk about— I mean, we're not making amendments in here, so just hold our thoughts until the council meeting, or—. I mean, you certainly can speak your thoughts if you want. I don't believe we're making any changes or amendments this evening.

Okay. Yeah, certainly, if it's a topic of discussion. Bring it up and we can discuss it.

Please. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So this $110,000, um, that was just quoted, where did you come up with that figure and their qualifications, and what type of workload are you thinking of for that kind of salary? So that would be a 40-hour-a-week employee workload. We have a lot of grants that we could apply for Um, you know, as we talked earlier this week, I have a lot of thoughts and ideas in moving this city forward, um, but no one to draft those plans and move forward with that.

I know in the past we have hired Agnew Beck to do city planning at a very deep cost to the city. I believe the first plan was somewhere in that $150,000 to come up with And then we updated that again in '23 for a cost of— I think that was $16,000 or $18,000 to update that. And we haven't done a whole lot with that city plan because it's essentially the same knowledge that we all have in that plan.

So what I'm curious about, Mayor, is, is that that salary is considerably, or it's considerably higher than the, um, than the mayor's salary. Um, I don't believe we have any, any ordinance that says we have a part-time mayor, um, as of yet. You may— I may be educated on that, but I haven't seen it yet. So if he's assisting the mayor, then I'm trying to justify why he's making so much more than the mayor.

So the mayor is a political position, and as you look at our code, when you get into the city manager position, it's much higher than the mayor's position. Um, as a mayor, I do this because I want what's best for my city, not because I'm looking for a career in politics. Um, so I hope that the next future mayor is willing to accept less than what would be a normal salary to do the job and do what's right for our community. I can't expect though every employee that works at the City of North Pole to follow that same desire.

They want what's best for the city, but they also need to earn a fair wage. I would agree with the fair wage. Um, I, I see the mayor's office a little bit different based on my experience with a number of those photographs up there.

But, and I don't see it as a political position, with the exception of the fact that it has— it's an elected position, but it's not elected based on whether you're— what, what your party affiliation might be. Um, so I don't see it as political. My experience with the mayors, um, the mayor does a lot. I've seen all the mayors that I've worked with, beside one, um, do great things for this city, bring in money, bring in funds, represent us in Juneau with the list of things that we need done for the city. So I see it's a job.

I agree it's a job. I just don't feel like it's a political job because that person represents the city not only in a public stance but, but in a work stance to do a lot of what you're saying that, that this— that the other person would do. And I'm not taking that away from that. I, I, because of my knowledge with the mayors, I know that every one of them has asked for an assistant. I've seen every one of them, every one of the mayors in that back office with stacks of, of work that they're trying to get through.

So I agree with, with your assistance.

Um, I just want to make sure that we justify it. Thank you. Are you saying you don't agree with that salary for the assistant? Is that what you're trying to get at? Yes, I'm not so sure the— that, that, that current wage salary is what we're, what we're trying to justify, what we're trying to look for.

We're actually looking for— I'm going to break it down to a mayor's assistant, which is commonly referred to in, in this realm as a chief of staff. And a chief of staff's primary mission to my knowledge, is helping the mayor accomplish that job, that position. And so I see it more as assistant than someone who's taking on a full-time, 40-hour-a-week job, which he can be here 40 hours, but he's assisting the mayor. And then I agree with, with the mayor and what he says. There's, there's always been a problem with the transition when one mayor leaves office and a new mayor comes in.

I understand that. Yeah. I don't see it as— I don't see it as a position that could take over the mayor's office.

Makes sense. I think it makes sense. Yeah, the— in my purview, I guess you could say, when it comes to cost-wise, because the mayor position is temporary, really, right? You have a term, you do the term, right? But the assistant, it's that person is supposed to stay, that Chief of Staff's supposed to stay.

And I feel like it would be more beneficial for a person to want to work and continue that if they have a good wage to bring someone in. Do you know what I mean? I do understand what you're saying, but I also— my experience with how our pay scale works and how the benefits and, and the cost of living all adds up into it, and the percentage they get annually with their position, um, that person is going to— there's a stepladder there for that person to grow in that office and increase his salary in the office. I just, I'm just questioning, and I don't want to spend too much time on it, um, but I'm just questioning, is that, is, is that an absolute starting wage that we should start with? Yeah, I understand your concern.

I just think if we don't start at a good wage, I don't know that we're going to get someone who's going to want to take on the job as well. My concern. That's just my—. And that's. My point of view.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You bet. I think it's a great place to start, and, and this isn't a deal breaker for me one way or the other. Go ahead, Councilman Schuster.

I was just going to say, um, just want to remind everybody we have 2,500 residents inside the city limits, North Pole, and I don't believe we need a director of city services a full-time mayor and a chief of staff. Um, it's the mayor's testimony that, you know, he's, he's very busy but somehow has time to take on director of city services tasks, and he didn't want to hire director of city services. And, and I'm not saying that, you know, you don't have your plate full. I don't— I believe that you do. But if you're able to take on those added responsibilities It's up— would be my opinion that we don't need all 3 of those.

Um, I think with a well-equipped Director of City Services, um, there would be no need for this position.

My 2 cents. Oh, I appreciate that. So we have right now a Utility Supervisor that's been here 24 years and a Public Works Supervisor that's been here 12. If they don't know the tasks that they need to take care of on the day-to-day and the year-to-year, and they're needing a supervisor to inform them as to what they need to do on the day-to-day, we have bigger problems. So I don't know if the Director of City Service position needs to remain as it has been in the past.

The last 4 Director of City Services positions that we have had don't have a great longevity here at the City of North Pole. Good. I think that's a matter— and we talked about it when we discussed the mayor salary— of maybe direct tweaking the Director of City Services job title to maybe help with some grant stuff and take some off and, and help with the transition between mayors. And I think that's more of it could serve as a chief of staff position. I don't, don't get the two confused.

That's— I'm not saying I think we should not hire a director of city services, but I think there is truth to what you're saying, is that we, we do have the fortune of having two very good department heads in— or supervisors in, in Water and Public Works that Maybe that role of Director of City Services can be changed a little bit to assist in some of those areas, um, but it would still— I, I think that would be the direction to go before hiring somebody for $120,000 in addition to Director of City Services position.

Councilman Kloss. Thank you, Mayor. I also agree with, uh, what Councilman Schuster has said about the Director of City Services.

Services. We have had, um, my opinion, an excellent Director of City Services before that did take on a lot of the tasks that you were just mentioning there. And I think with some tweaking, um, the Director of City Services, since our code permits us to have one and actually requires it under current code, um, that we ought to stick with that and explore that, especially at that salary level. Just my 2 cents worth. Thank you.

Hey, any other questions or comments about the admin budget? Yeah,. Please. If we were to adopt a Director of City Services type, like, combine or whatever, or hire Does it change if we hire internally cost-wise?

Will that change how much? Do you know what I mean? If we hire someone internally to have them come up to that particular position, would that save us in some way? Just an idea. It could, and just because that's the number that we have identified, and I believe that when we did that, Will, that was loaded wage at $110,000, correct?

Um, we increase the other benefits, uh, over time and stuff like that for the increase. So total of $110,000 is, is where we put that in, not just for wages? Okay. Um, yeah, and there is a chance to do a lateral hire from another department into that position. Um, I don't disagree with all of the testimony here.

I think it's worth a discussion as to how we move our city forward and what's the best avenue.

If, if that chief of staff position was also an attorney, the city would save greatly on that, and we could increase that wage and actually save the city a ton of money. That was going to be my next question. Our current attorney bills are running anywhere from $7,000 to $9,000 a month, which would more than cover that entire position. If the Chief of Staff was also an attorney, and we could offer that wage at probably $155,000 and save a ton of money, um, with the way that we've been going. And then having an on-staff attorney would be able to address all of the issues inside the city, not just what we send our attorney.

It's worth looking at something inside of the mayor's office to help with the transition and to improve our city. As you look around through all of these departments, absolutely every single one of our city departments has an assistant, has a backup, has someone else who can do the job if they're gone. And the mayor has the mayor pro tem, and that is a great position but not necessarily fair to the mayor pro tem if the mayor has to be gone for a month.

Please. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I don't want to kick this can too far down the street, um, but I just quickly looked up the city director's position to refresh my memory as what their responsibility is. Um, I think the best city director we ever had was Bill Butler. He was kind of a tough one to deal with, but he was the best.

That I'm familiar with. But I also recognize the fact that, that as the mayor has said, we've had— we have some pretty fine department heads running those departments without a city director. And the city director's main responsibility is to supervise those departments, and they seem to be doing well without that director. And if we can reutilize that position from city director to, um, chief of staff, then I think that's something, an avenue we should be looking at. Um, and I, I know that from listening to the previous YouTube videos and watching previous meetings that the fact that we don't have a city director at the moment and that we weren't looking for him just a few weeks ago but now we're advertising again has been a, a, I don't want to say a sense of contention, but it seems it's been an issue.

And I think what we should do is, is evaluate that position and what the code of ordinance requires us that position to be, and then reevaluate the Chief of Staff and see if we can get more out of a Chief of Staff, um, than we can just another person to supervise supervisors. Um, I think that'd be a wiser— I just wanted to share that, and that's as far as I'm going to kick that can. I hear what you're saying, but it's kind of messed up, don't you think, to be like, hey, this is your job and now we're going to put more on your plate? Do you know what I mean? It sounds like you're saying you have this job, but we also want you to do this job.

It sounds like you're just like, let's take this guy and make him do more. No, I'm not— not— I'm— thank you. I'm not trying to say that the chief of staff that he wants to employ takes over the city director's position. I'll put it this way: eliminate the position, the city director. We don't— I— obviously you're doing well without it.

And I personally know these employees that he's talking about, and they've been working very hard the last few years. And if they're doing well without an overseer, then I don't— then maybe we should consider not having that position. That money we save, because that is a highly priced position, that money we saved, it can be utilized in a more efficient person, as in the chief of staff. And I'm— but I'm not saying take over the director's position. As a chief of staff.

And I will tell you that I agree with you, um, that Bill Butler was great in the engineering department, but his position at that time was city engineer. The director of city services— that position wasn't, um, introduced or created until I think we got into Mayor Welch's time, where the intent for that director of city services position was to eventually become a city manager.

Which is why when you look at their task and their role, they supervise pretty much everything related to the city rather than just a department head of a single department.

I, I agree as well. And the— my only concern about not having the position, and this is where I think I understand where Mr. Schuster is coming from, is his final requirement in our ordinance, and I'll just read it, is responsible for administration and management of the design and construction contracts of all capital projects for the Public Works, Utility, and Building Departments. That is an important position, a very important position. The others are supervisory, but that one is one that, that if we can mingle it or make it work then I think that's the one we can't do without. Thank you.

Okay, Mr. Harlock, please continue. Okay, if you don't have any more questions, I think, um, it's to, uh, the clerk and HR department. Do we have any more questions for Administration Finance. Okay, Clerk Department. Good evening, Council.

Uh, this is the City Clerk and Human Resources proposed budget, uh, also, uh, part of your proposed budget too. You are part of the City Clerk.

So our mission in the clerk's office is to serve as a vital, uh, part of local government and be committed to serving as a link between residents, local governing bodies, and agencies of governments at all levels. We pledge to be mindful and neutral, uh, and impartial, uh, with respect to local government matters and to place, uh, service to the public as our top priority. Do you want to read your HR one, or— okay, I can read it for you. The mission of the Human Resources Department is to support and enhance the city's most valuable assets, its employees, Human Resources is responsible for managing the employee life cycle and ensuring a productive, compliant, and positive work environment. HR plays a crucial role supporting both the City of North Pole's goals and the well-being of its employees.

We started off with some of our long-term goals that we'd like to see moving forward. Um, our number one is recodification, and that's update, reorganize, and consolidate the city's existing code. Into a single consistent and current document. Um, ideally we'd like to have a website refresh, uh, and updating it for mandatory ADA compliance. That got pushed back a year or two, um, but it's still looming on the horizon.

And for the ease of access for the citizens of North Pole, I would like to address some of our records management, uh, just digitization of records for the ease of access for employees and citizens with a potential public-facing portal.

For citizens to access records easier that they are allowed to access, and, uh, continue with our professional development, be statewide experts in our fields.

Um, there's an old Santa Claus house photo for you, courtesy of Explore Fairbanks. Uh, the 2026 budget was, uh, $417,000. Our 2027 proposed is $508,183.75, an increase of $91,000. We'll get to the increases here in just a second. Uh, on our screen you can see the actuals from '25, the 2026 budgeted items, the 2026 year-to-date, and the 2027 proposed.

Um, our wages, uh, full-time, obviously those always go up. We do have a drop in benefits, uh, PERS I wanted to know our leave cash out. Both Miss Kimmel and I, uh, would like to take our vacations and not cash out leave. So, uh, striking up a proper work-life balance is important for us. And then Miss Kimmel's the only one that is a regular overtime employee in our department, and with me being here, she doesn't have to work as many meetings.

So that's going to go down as well. We don't need to have budget as much money for Obviously, if it's in red, it's a reduction from, uh, last year's budgeted. Uh, health insurance is also going to go down. Council wages will go up about $2,500, but for a department, um, in that wages and benefits, uh, we should be down about $6,000 bucks, uh, $311,073.75.

Um, Clerk, HR Department, Purchases and Services, uh, maintaining the status and advertising, uh, Audit and Finance, uh, talking, uh, that's our portion of the audit, um, that is broken up amongst departments, uh, and I think talking with Mr. Harlock, that was going to go down a little bit this year. Um, we do have, uh, credit card fees For 2027, uh, we're thinking with an increase— with the increase in public records requests that we're seeing, a lot more people are paying with credit card because it's going over that time threshold, um, and it costs money to process those credit cards. So, uh, it's not much, but it's, it's a new line item in our budget. Uh, our insurance is going to go down. Uh, it's our portion of the liability insurance The main— one of the big increases on this page is IT services.

It's split up amongst the departments. Our AlaskaNet contract is going up, and it's roughly been coming in at about $1,835 a month.

So across 12 months, it's about $21,000. So, and that's for our internet, correct? And our last— yes,. The IT is for the, uh, Alaska Connect. Yep.

Um, legal fees, um, our proposal is $55,000 for the year. You can see where we are year to date right now, and I think that that number is still— I mean, we still have bills to pay for the rest of the year. Our maintenance contracts are a portion of Tyler Technologies that— and also part of the software that we use for our employee benefits and onboarding. Those are going down. Professional services, we plan on keeping the same.

Um, that's our portion of the cleaning. Golden Heart, which is our trash and shredding, uh, Laserfiche Um, the— as we approach— as we've gone through this year, uh, we feel like that $12,000— we've gone over because those were some fees that we didn't anticipate as we kind of shuffled some things around moving through the year. But I think that $12,000 is a pretty good estimate of where we want to be next year. Here's the big ask. Again, it's, it's your appropriation whether or not you choose to move forward with it.

Ordinance codification— obviously you can see that we don't really spend a lot of that normally. We spend money to send in our code, they update it, and it's maintenance of our website, right? So ordinance recodification is a big task. It gets sent out to a company, they'll do a full legal review of it, make sure that we're up to Alaska state statute. And where we need to be, give suggestions, make sure code doesn't contradict code in other spots.

And you guys have been on our website and seen our code. We need, we need a recodification, but it is, it is a big financial commitment and understand if we need to take that out. So that's So that's one of the big asks for this year.

Operational expenses, we are paying our portions of what we owe. So electric is going to be new, heating fuel will be new. Those are new expenses that each department is breaking it up and paying for it. Phone and data.

Can you help me out, Michelle? MTA is going— is it was in the IT category, but now it's switched over properly with the— yep. Um, postage is the same, uh, just in case we need various postage fees. Uh, office equipment and supplies, uh, it was high. They were budgeting for new desks and such.

We just don't need that much, so we cut that in half. That, that is part of our paper supplies, ink, whiteout, excess copies, battery backups, batteries, Atta Boy signages when we get this, all these items. So that's a lot of what comes out of this line item.

Promotions and apparel, just increase that a little bit, $150. That's our employee appreciation pins, pins, all of those kind of items. Publications and subscriptions, we have a publication or a subscription to the Newsminer, um, and all of our HR posters that are required by law, our Canva, our Adobe, and our Zoom all come out of that, but nothing needs to change in that. Council supplies, we added $500. The plan hopefully is to get you guys away from paper if we could, and, uh get 2 laptops at the dais for you, just some Chromebooks that you guys can operate, and that would just be computer— the extra $500 would just be for computer upkeep.

And I think honestly, once we get that dialed in, we could probably drop some other expenses because we, we go through a lot of paper.

Last, travel and training. Our memberships and dues are about the same. That is our memberships to AML, AAMC, IIMC, SHRM. We're gonna be members of the— or in the National Association of Parliamentarians.

Recruitment is $110. You can see that we haven't used that. I think that's something that we could cut. It's recruitment for if either of us left, and I don't— hopefully neither of us are going to leave. Um, travel and training, um, just for what we have coming up this next year, we asked for a little bit more, uh, or about the same.

We're going to the Region 9 Conference, which is our region for our clerks. We're both going to AAMC. This is for you guys to go to AML, for Miss Kimmel's SHRM training for HR items. Uh, and we do benefit— I just wanted to note so you guys, uh, know that we benefit from paying virtually nothing for our flights. We're able to use points, um, and we also try to be stewards with our spending on that.

We bought all of our tickets when we needed to during the PFD sale so that we got the best bang so that we didn't have to spend— I think we spent maybe $45 in flight money. Yeah, so, and we didn't even spend that because we had a wallet, uh, balance from a canceled flight. And then, uh, council travel and training, that's for, uh, AML for you guys to go to NEO. And if you guys choose to go to the AML Winter Conference, there's a summer conference, there are multiple AML conferences. Um, vehicle gas and oil, that is like Will said, that is The mileage— the most mileage I spend is probably when I have to go to borough things, specifically around election time, and it's not very often, so we don't really need that much in there.

And then that is our portion of the building maintenance fee.

Uh, last— or getting close to the end here— election expenses. Um, it's at— last— this year we budgeted $8,800. We haven't got our bill back yet. Um, from my previous position at another employer, I know that some of those fees were going to go up, but this could, um, this might— could be adjusted. I just suggested $10,000.

Once we get that bill and we kind of dial it in and have talks, I think we could— if we need to accurately reflect that, I think, uh where we're going to be. Miscellaneous expenses is just food, trash bags, paper towels, things of that nature throughout the year. And you can see this is where we were at. This is our final proposed budget, so— or not, our proposal to you, not final, excuse me. And our impact areas are just IT services, legal fees, and the possible recodification and spreading out of department fees are all areas that are driving up costs.

But we have, even though we have done that, we did some reductions in a bunch of places that we could try to save some money where we could. And with that, if you guys have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Okay,. So you said in the phone and data, MTA is in that now, so it was removed from IT services. Uh, so with it coming out, why is IT services so much higher this year? So we,. If would like to take that.

I asked that same question because I did not understand it as well, but, um, and correct me if I'm wrong, Michelle, at any point in time, please, is that the Alaska Connect contract is going up as well, so it would have been even higher if it wasn't for moving that out of that area. What's their justification for that high of an increase? Like, it doesn't make sense.

Allocation has a lot to do with it as well. Michelle, would you— I'm sorry, into the mic so that those who are listening— thank you. Um, we're repositioning how we're breaking down the bills, so they're going to have a portion of the Last Connect bill, or a bigger portion, not necessarily Last Connect, that MTA bill.

So the way that it was done— I'm sorry, go ahead, Michelle. About $10,000 a month. Yeah, citywide is what it is. So we're now paying— we were not paying a portion, or not a, a fair portion of that before, correct? Is that what it was?

Correct. Yes. So that's why it also went up too. I think the bill went up, but then our services— it was one, maybe one place was paying all of the bill So now we're spreading it evenly across all other departments. So I don't think it went up that much, but it did go up.

But then we're also paying our fair portion of what was— what we're supposed to be paying to. Okay, so what did it go up, the overall bill?

So,.

Um, IT for the HR department is about $1,800, between $1,800 and $1,900 a month. Currently,. Right? But the— so what he was— or I guess what the explanation is, is that it wasn't evenly split. It's going to be evenly split moving forward, which is part of the increase from what it was last year to what it is this year.

Uh, but it's still an increase across all the departments that I've seen so far. Obviously I haven't gotten through all the budgets yet. Uh, but how much is overall bill going up?

I believe we're in contract with Alaska Connect, so that is in 2025. It was $1,200 a month for a clerk in HR, so it increased to about $600 a month from last year.

Contract. So $1,800 times— well, $1,900 times 12 would be, uh, $22,800, and they budgeted for $23,000.

Did the services that we're getting change, or did they just highly inflate their prices?

No, their, their prices have, have stayed the same. We, we went into contract— do you remember when we went into contract with Alaska Night Can you pull that up? Uh, let me see. Was that March of last year that that happened? So looking at last year's budget versus this year's budget, the Alaska Connect is, is a big difference.

And it went from $6,700 a month to $10,800 a month. Yep. $10,000. Yep.

Right. I'm just trying to figure out what was, what was the change? Are we getting a different service? Are— did their prices just highly inflate? Like, what is— what cause the change?

So, uh, two things. Alaska Connect sold to MTA rather than being a standalone or owned by GVEA. They had been trying for two years to get the city of North Pole off an old contract that they honored that was signed by Bryce Ward back in 2014 for that same price, and they've held that price for us all the way through these terms. They tried for the last year and a half of Welch's term to get the city on a new contract. And finally, I believe in September '24— is that correct?

September '25? Do you remember when that was that they came to us and said your new price for IT services, because you won't get in contract, is now $9,700 a month?

And we went out to bid to RFP. And AlaskaNet was the lowest bidder by a bit, so we chose to get into a 5-year contract with AlaskaNet at $10,900 or $10,800 a month. We do have a better service now. Prior to this, we did not have the proper accounts to run for police department related to CJIS. So we now have that dialed in with our IT services, and we also added emails for Utility and Public Works departments, which we had never had before.

They were on an outside email entity rather than being on a corporate email. So there were some additional costs incurred there, but just the cost of the services Absolutely insane. It's my question. That's what I was trying to get at, like what drove the increase, and all I was getting is not an answer. But that answers it.

Thank you. Okay, I figured if I talked enough, I'd knock it out. Um, please. We were grandfathered in, and then, and then they were like, nope, no more. Fun.

That's a fun change in price. Mr. Mayor, Mr. Ball, understanding the difference between administration's credit card services and your credit card services, um, you're only looking for $200. My question is this: are we charging a service fee for credit cards being used to pay bills? That I don't— looks like no,. We are not.

And we should. And we should. We have talked about that internally at staff meetings, especially when it comes to budget. I mean, I don't know how your credit card fees are broke down between the two different departments. Um, what define your $200 credit card fees?

Can I take that one? Is that okay? Um, those fees are, are directly related to only public records requests where people who request records go over the 5-hour per month limit that we have set as a city, and they pay at cost. At loaded wage cost for records above 5 hours, and most of them swipe a card for those records rather than pay cash or check. And, and because we don't have a fee policy, um, the, the city accepts those fees.

So, uh, question for, um, admin: are you going to implement service fees for the use of credit cards? I can only imagine how much we're paying in service fees for that.

Um, for all of— yeah, we're paying quite a bit. That would be something we definitely could look at.

Councilman Schuster, I think, uh, a credit card fee for people living outside the city and doing public records is something I could get behind. I don't know if that's legal, but for city residents wanting to either public records, pay their utility bills. We're taking more of their money, which it's already their money. So we're increasing our budget to cover their services, which I, I don't think makes sense. I'm in certain areas, I think it does.

In certain areas, I don't think it does.

Mr. Mayor, as a business owner, I can tell you that the credit card fees are quite high. Sure. Um, and I do charge a service fee, which is legal, uh, when people use a credit card to pay for my services. Um, because if I don't, then that means my— I'm taking that money out of my service to pay for their use of a credit card. A credit card is a privilege.

If you write a check or use a debit card, there's no charge. But if you use a credit card, that is a privileged source of use, use of payment. And I don't think if you really knew the numbers of how much we're spending or we're paying for in, in by accepting credit cards, if someday you could tell us that actual number. $30,000. It's what,.

About $30,000? $30,000 A year is what it's sitting at right now. Then that's $30,000 a year less than we're getting for our, like you said, our utilities and our services. And so that just means we're kicking back to them. So it's something we can debate in the future, but something we should definitely look at.

Thank you. If we do do that, are we equipped and prepared for people that do not want to pay the service fee? Like, are we capable of they come in and pay in cash or whatever, like we can do all that. Okay. I was like, I don't want to like shoot ourselves in the foot later, but I agree.

I think that's a lot for fees and I think most people are used to paying credit card fees at this point. So yeah. Just one minor clarification. We're not a business. I mean, I charge a service fee in my business as well, but I think I do think there's a difference between a, you know, a government body doing it and a business doing it.

Okay. Yes, please. So, um, to the council member, should we increase our fees to cover our cost? I mean, that's the whole point of our nice rate. My, my argument was to not city residents.

Yes, we should charge a credit card fee to people doing public records that aren't North Pole residence. Councilman Claus, please. Thank you, Mayor. Your patience. That's all right.

Thank you. Thanks, Mayor. So with respect to the codification that we were talking about before for our city clerk, last time I spoke with our city attorney, which was months ago or a few months ago, the subject of codification came up, and since our city has a sort of a habit of throwing a lot at the attorney to look at to make sure it's compliant with stuff, the city attorney said if we redid our code, essentially cleaned it up, uh, that would cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, in their opinion. Um, so that's an expense we should consider if we're talking about the cleaning up our code, which we do have to do. I mean, I, I agree with it, we have to do it, unless you factored that in already.

Just a point. And another thing, uh, since, um, Ms. Kimmel stepped up and bridged a gap when we didn't have a city clerk for a while and stepped up, I'm wondering Since we were going over the budget before, um, has all that shaken out? Is— have all those salaries been readjusted and all the rest of it to reflect the different changes that have been going on since the city council is responsible for whatever is going on the clerk's purview? I just wanted to make sure that if somebody's been acting, that they're not acting anymore and their salary reflects that, and some other adjustments that might have been made. So I just wanted to double-check with that.

And last, I'm hoping that since everybody's been having these great presentations, that the city council members here, that we all can get copies of that before our city council meeting coming up this coming Monday. But thank you. Thank you, Mayor. You bet. And let me address just a couple of things, and then we'll move to you.

Um, talking about the acting pay at this point in time during a budget meeting, I almost called a point of order on you, so that might be better brought up in private or at a regular council meeting. And as far as getting copies of the presentation, I— like was said earlier, and we are trying to reduce copies. Color copies are 10 cents, so we certainly can email that out. Okay, thank you for that. Yes, Mr.

Clerk. And then through the mayor, to answer your— the other first question, Um, the recodification process, we would go out, I would get a couple quotes. Um, generally we have— excuse me— a contract with— it's not General Code anymore, it is a new company. Yeah, no, it's like. International Code—.

It is. Um, so the process of that gets if we were to start that process, and again, we would bring everything just before the council to approve it anyways, um, is they would— they have a team of like, I don't know, 10, 15 lawyers that go through it. And that's why they can keep the cost lower on that recodification process versus, for example, MCS doing it and having 2 attorneys, when they can get to it, go through it.

So that process would take several months, and then they would get us a, um, legal review of every issue that they found and whether we want to address it, not address it, and go through that. I would probably put together a code review team that we can work through that process. And then on top of that, we probably should send a completed draft version of what we would like to do to our attorney, but then reducing the cost of all of the time that they need to spend on it because we've already gone through it. And here, here's what we think. Please spend an hour or two with this if you can, and then that should be the cost associated with them unless they are so lower that we would choose them to do it as well.

So, um, but that— no, I factored in all that in the recodification process too. So yep, long, long answer. Longer. Great, thank you for your patience, Mr. McGee. Thank you.

So, uh, to Clerk Ball, in regards to the, the ordinances and the codification of the ordinances, um, a little history here. Um, Mr. Claus has a good point. Um, first, we, we have to be up to date. Since I've decided to come back on council, I've been studying and going over a lot of, of our ordinances and, and trying to look for information and trying to find some archive information and find it to be— even though we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on archiving all this information, it's been very, very difficult to bring it up and find some history on it. So it is something we definitely need to do.

And if there's this company, as you refer to, that can go through our ordinances and our charter and recommend changes to it, that, that's going to be great. We're going to pay for it. Now, the history is we had a committee of citizens, and a lot of the old-time citizens who were from homestead families, that, that gathered and they reviewed our charter and our ordinances. And after they went through multiple months of going through all of that, they brought their recommendations to the council, and then the council would review them and determine which ones we would have to update. Even something as simple as the word 'and' or 'the' that changed the meaning of a sentence, we would, we would have to correct.

Um, so I do agree that it's important to update our and codify our ordinances because we're kind of a little We're kind of out of date at the moment, but my other question is, is for this, um, under council supplies on your budget, on the council appropriation budget, all three of them, you only have $750.

Now, if I'm reading it right, that's under council supplies. It's gone from $2,000 down to $31— well, that's used— but down to $1,000, and yours is $750. Am I reading that correctly?

I don't have a line to tell you, but it's under the operational experience expenses, council supplies. I have proposed $1,500 up here. I don't know that change. Okay, so I saw that on your presentation there. It's not here as a proposed.

It's not in here that I'm looking at. But my question is, we're talking— I'm hopefully that we can get away from this paper printing and back to the laptops, whatever anyone wants to use. Um, is that enough? I mean, do you have enough laptops on hand? That's not even one laptop.

We have, we have, uh, you can see that we've only— we budgeted $1,000.

Um, and we. Have $1,006. Yeah, so we still have quite a bit of money in there. And we also have, um, quite a bit of money in our office equipment and supplies as well still, as you can see on here too. So I think that's enough to cover.

And. Office equipment supplies, as long as you're looking at it in a sense that you're going to be able to provide the laptops that each one of us needs— and I don't need one, I have my own, I appreciate the offer, but I'd prefer to stay with my own— I would recommend, I would recommend that if we have what we had in the past is if we wanted to use our computers, we had an Adobe subscription so that we could rework the, the agenda as we were reading it, and we could put in our changes that we wanted to introduce on our own systems. So I would recommend that if we still have that Adobe subscription, to share that with each one of the laptops so that We don't— like right now, I'm the one I'm using. I can't change anything. I can't put notes in there or change anything that I'd like to do.

I used to be able to do that. So I'm hoping that that's part of your consideration when we eliminate all this paper and save some money there and start using the laptops. And I really appreciate the mayor and the clerk's office. I'm getting all kinds of updates and my emails are coming through, and I appreciate that. Thank you.

That's all I had, Mayor. Thank you. Um, so that— that's an added layer that I didn't necessarily think about. I was intending for them to stay here and not necessarily for you to take them, but I don't see a reason why you couldn't be responsible for taking them. My thought was just to get Chromebooks for you guys so you guys could access the agenda and all the files at your diocese, but that's something that we can to look at too, if it's the will of the council.

So. Thank you, and I— we should take them home because as soon as you email that agenda to us, we get the opportunity at home to open it, study it, make any notations or recommendations or changes that we may want to make in whatever's being proposed at our convenience at home. Then that way, when we actually come to the meeting, we're already prepared. Thank you, Mayor. Are we allowed to just use our own?

Okay, does everyone have one already, their own? I mean, I don't, I don't see a need to provide us with laptops that we're not even— theoretically shouldn't take home when if we already have a laptop and you're already sending it to us, then why buy laptops? Doesn't— you know what I. Mean? So we looked.

At some of that might be subject to public record and using personal laptop? It would depend on— no, because you should be able to download your email. I ultimately— the, the thought with the Chromebooks was the stacks and stacks of paper that we print, we pay for every single copy for. That. I get, I get wanting to not have all the paper But I, I mean, I already have like, you know, I got a laptop for this work and this work, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't need like 15 laptops. I'm like, I got a laptop. Can I just bring a laptop and use my laptop? And so what I mean, if we're already getting it emailed, yeah, then you log into your email anywhere. So that's why I was like, maybe we don't need necessarily need the cost of laptops for everyone is all I'm saying.

So there's nothing in the ordinance that says we can't use our personal laptops, right? With the exception is don't you ever hit record on your laptop. Well, yeah, that's. Because that, that breaks all the rules, right? There's nothing in our ordinances or our charter that says we can't use a personal laptop instead of using the city's.

And the whole point is, like you said, you got— you know, I have a number of laptops, you have a number of laptops. Why buy them if we could— if we have our own? It's just that, that's, that's the way I see it. I don't want the company, the city, to spend the money to give me a Chromebook because this is much better for me and I can use it the way I can. What I can make my notes and like one of the things that— forgive me, I know we all want to go home, but one of the things I love since we went to computers and we all had a laptop is being able to access the charter, access the ordinance while we were having discussions so that we were accurate with what we were understanding and saying.

I won't say anything about the ordinance unless I can read it and quote it. So this has been a very good advantage for my, my own personal use to be able to informed about what we're doing.

Okay, perfect. Um, any other questions budget-wise?

Please, let's roll. I'll just give my two cents on it. Uh, my preference is paper. Uh, I like to be able to flip through it and look at it, uh, and look at more than one thing at once. Can't do that on a computer screen.

It's not big enough unless I have multiple screens. Uh, at work, I have several screens to work off of and they're very large. Paper works better for me. So if everybody else wants to go digital, I don't have a problem with that, but I still want my packet printed and I'll come pick it up every Friday like I currently do.

Okay, so are copies— well, let's just talk about that real quick.

Every single page that we print cost the city, I believe, 1.6 cents for black and white and almost 8.5 cents for a color copy. Um, plus we pay for extra services for having the huge printer, which I think we need anyway, but we get charged on, um, copies made per month, and I believe our $6,000 for black and white and $2,500, I think, for colored is where we're set now. Please, Jordan,. Are we still renting a printer? What's the—.

Isn't the thing they—. So. You had this discussion last year. The city signed a contract for the printer, and we could have bought it outright for $10,100, but a department head chose to lease the printer, to spread that payment out over 5 years at $189 or $180 a month, for 5 years, which is about $16,500 for the total cost of that printer. And when we're done with that 5-year contract, they come and pick the printer up.

And leave us without one.

That would not have been my preference if I was given a decision. I would have said, certainly, let's buy the $10,000 printer and pay for it outright rather than lease it for the additional $6,000. And then at the end of that 5-year period or 8-year period or whatever, We have an object to take and sell.

You're on year— almost year 2. Yeah.

I mean, there are different ways to do it. I managed that at my former law firm, not my current one, and we did the lease that ends with us owning it at the end, not them taking it at the end. There's basically 3 ways you can do it. You can just do an outright lease, which is what it sounds like ours is here, just the lease where they— at the end of the period, come and take it. Uh, you can lease to purchase at a set price at the end of it, where it's yours at a set price.

Um, that's what I have at my old office. Uh, and you can also do a lease where it's whatever the value of the printer is at the end of your lease term. You get the first option to buy. If you don't want to buy it, it goes away. Uh, so leasing is not necessarily a bad option, uh, but not having a purchase at the end is definitely not the way to go.

If there is no interest rate attached with that lease purchase, that makes a lot of sense. But where we're at in the city, leasing it for a leasing fee or paying additional fees over what it would cost to buy it outright just doesn't mathematic for me. Sorry, I'm North Pole. Go ahead. I understand we're in a contract with that, but maybe it's worth checking and saying, hey, would you be open to changing this so we can purchase it?

I— okay, I, I can reach out and check. I asked—. I feel like they'd be happy to sell a printer. Within the first, um, few months that we had that, once I found out that we didn't purchase that outright, I called and asked if we could purchase that outright. And the corporation that we are leased with Um, this is how they operate.

Um, they buy the printer outright from the company, lease it back to us, and then get the printer at the end. So they make their money on both sides. You know who leases? I do. Who is it?

I'm, I'm sorry, I won't say. Um, I'll send it out in an email if everyone's interested, and we can actually send that entire contract out. Would you make a note of that and send that out to the clerk so he can distribute that to the entire council? There's usually 2 that go with it. There's usually a lease of the printer and then a maintenance agreement.

They make sure it's inbuilt out. Sure, Michelle. Thank you.

Okay, any other discussion on tonight's budgets?

Questions, comments, suggested changes? Okay.

With that, Mr. Clerk, uh, if you want to give me just one second. I'm sorry, I can't second that. I'll hold. Um, Mr.

Clerk, do you have the piece of paper that I need to—. Miss Kimmel was printing it off. I can just— I can also just tell you if you'd like to make that motion. Please. Yes, sir.

Um, so you would, uh, You would like to move into executive session because subjects, uh, the immediate knowledge of which would clearly have an adverse effect on the finances of the city. Or you make that motion. Can I ask one quick question? Absolutely. Did that need to be noticed on our agenda to do that?

It does not. It says, consistent with AS4462.310, the council by majority vote may recess from a public meeting, work session, or other gathering of the council into executive session if the council considers no business during executive session except for the subjects mentioned in the motion calling for the executive session, and the motion includes which of the following? Mr. McGee,. Clarification: is there an individual involved in this executive session, and has that person been notified? There is no individual.

This is related to, um, items of financial information that are important to the council. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And then I would like to make that motion, Mr. Ball, just as you read, and then I would also, um,. Just leave it at that, and then we'll come back. Okay.

Yep. So with that motion being made, I'm looking for a second. Okay, second. So moved and seconded. Any further discussion on that?

Mr. Clerk, please call the roll on that. Uh, Miss Rolf? Yes. Mr. McGee?

Yes. Mr. Skips? Mr. Claus? Yes. Mr. Schuster?

Yes. Miss Barnett? Yes. And Mayor Church? Yes.

Would anyone like to change their vote? Okay, with that, I would also like to propose that after the executive session Okay, it's quite all right, Mr. Clerk. I thought we— I thought we had a process.