Kodiak: October 29, 2026, Work Session

The October 29th, 2026 work session will now come to order. This work session is open to the public. For those who are listening, meeting agendas and packets are available online on the City of Kodiak's website. Public members are encouraged to web stream from the city's website portal. Audience and council members, please silence your phones, and council members, please put your phones away for the duration of the meeting.

The first item on the agenda is public comments, which will be limited to 3 minutes each. If there is anyone who wishes to address the council as a whole, Please come to the podium or call 907-486-8610. Please note that this is the only opportunity to comment during this work session. Due to the slight delay in broadcast, I will be pausing for a moment to allow people from the public to call in.

Again, it's very quiet.

Hearing none, the next item on the agenda is to discuss city manager hiring process, and I'll turn it over to City Clerk Brandy Warnecke to provide a review. Thank you. The city of Kodiak currently has, um, your packet says 27, it's 28 applications for the city manager position, um, following the October 6th municipal election. Staff is seeking direction from the city council on how they would like to proceed with the recruitment and selection process for our permanent city manager. Um, and we do have our city attorney Charles Cassiola online, um, to, uh, provide some feedback as well.

And we have, uh, Mr. Cassiola's memo provided to us here. If council would like a few moments to review that memo, we can take that time.

And just let me know when you're done with the memo.

Everyone good? Yeah.

Yes. Well, it seems to me that Mr. Caciola has done a good job at this memo in succinctly stating where we are right now. I'll just reread paragraph 4 because it seems to be kind of the meat of the issue. If the council believes that Mr. Putney is a particularly well-qualified applicant, our recommendation is that each individual council member reviews the published manager's application before the November 10th work session to determine if there are other applicants that should be interviewed. Then at the November 10th work session, Council can discuss in public session if there are other applicants who should be interviewed, or if it's satisfied that Mr. Putney is the strongest applicant such that further interviews are not necessary.

Should the Council decide to interview other applicants, it can direct the clerk to schedule interviews with the selected applicants at a future Council meeting. And then on the next page The other one— the other thing that seems particularly relevant is that said, if the council believes that it may want to offer Mr. Putney the position at the November 12th meeting, at tonight's meeting the council should inform the clerk to prepare for the possibility at the November 12th meeting. Public notice requirements mean that preparations for the November 12th meeting cannot wait until November 10th. Having read those two relevant paragraphs. Is there any— are there any other questions or comments from the council?

Council Member West. Thank you, Terry.

Um, I see that we have all these dates. Um, I have said in, in public, I've said on the radio and at our work session and to everybody I've met that my goal was to have opportunity to open up for local applicants.

This schedule does not seem to me to allow enough time. I mean, we had— maybe we did, but maybe it was enough time, maybe it wasn't. How long ago? A week ago, week and a half ago that the vote got confirmed? The 22nd, and today's the 29th, so that's a week.

That's a week. That people would say, okay, I live on the street and I could apply to be the manager. I've done similar work. And I was just thinking we should allow some time for those people to put in their applications. So before we keep going on, just because I have— that has been my goal all along, is to open it up to as many applicants as are eligible.

I would like to consider, um, a 30-day— I'm just throwing that out there— a 30-day period from the time it was, uh, certified, the election, until we close the application period, and then I think it's a great time for us to review any of those, or all, all of the applications so that we can make a decision that one person is particularly well qualified. So that's one of my thoughts.

The other, because I do have a matrix at home that I've been working on, that I appreciate the matrix. We're gonna The other thing is I just wanted to bring up, um, I know it mentions in the last paragraph, uh, draft employment agreement. Um, we as a community have experienced, um, some hires and fires really fast.

That being said, um, you know, city manager as well as superintendent Um, I would propose that we, uh, whoever we choose, that we would have them on a 6-month probation period where they would not be getting full pay that we talked about. I don't know if we can do that, but it's just, just a 6-month probation period.

Um, those are my two thoughts on this. Thank you. Any further discussion or comments?

I completely agree with her, or with you, sorry. I completely agree with you. I think we need more than just a week or 2 weeks for us to hire a property manager itself, and I do like your probation era. That's actually a pretty— that's a wise choice to do.

Yeah, I think maybe a 30-day to see who's able to apply and see if they're good for the job would be a great idea. Um, and also maybe we need an extra 2 weeks to kind of see if those people— or go over the list and just kind of get the right person for this job. And that's it. Thank you, Councilmember Davidson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um, I see our situation from a different perspective than my fellow council members. Um, I don't personally see a reason to extend the process. I feel that we have already had an open call for candidates for the city manager for 2 years, 3 years, 4 years. I mean, how long has it been? Um, and the council made a decision that was public at a public meeting that we were pausing interviewing until the results of the election, which opened the avenue and gave plenty of notice.

I, I would have to Ask Brandy for when it was made, but I think it was like July, which was over 3 months ago that we told the community we're not going to interview anyone until after the election so that we know if they are eligible to be hired based on whether the proposition— is it a proposition?—. Passed. Yep. And so, so we've already had sort of what you're asking for, and in fact, After that point, we did see a rise in local applicants. I, I actually did not specifically look and see if those 2 or 3 local applicants after that point were in or out of the city limits.

Um, I was more focused on their work experience and things like that, um, because at that time where they lived wasn't relevant because the election was what gave us the permission to make the decision that we've been waiting multiple years to make. So I don't personally think it's in the best interest of the community to further extend the process. We already have 28 applications, um, and I just think that the community is better served by us being definitive and moving forward because we've had plenty of time to hem and haw. Thank you. Council Member Charles Daviston.

I, I don't think it's fair to the 27 applicants that have their, uh, application in. So, but at the same time, I would like to see this expedited. I mean, this special meeting, because, you know, with the holidays coming up, you're, you're looking way down the road. So if, if we can go go through the 27 applicants, which I feel we should because we have them here and, and they've taken the time to submit them. I mean, some of them won't take long to go through, some of them might, but we— but this new council can then determine, uh, what are the expectations, what do you want, what are the qualifications you as an individual see.

And in regards— a question for the board: we already have a probationary period, or does that come with the contract. Not sure. So the city has probationary periods for its regular PR&R employees, but as contract employ— as a contract employee, um, Charles, correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be something that is written into the contract. It's not, um, that could be—. That would be—.

Need to be in the contract because as a contract employee we don't fall under PR&R.

Yes, that's correct. So generally, the city's manager employment contracts have provided that the council can terminate the employment for cause, in which case there's no severance involved, or you can terminate not for cause, in which case there is severance payment involved. You certainly could put something to the effect that, you know, if there's termination in the first 6 months of employment, you know, even not for cause, that there'll be no severance. So that's something that could be put into an agreement.

Councilmember Walker. Agree with both of them on this. You know, we, we've been at this for a while, and, uh, we have some good applicants, and, uh, looking forward to just move on with what we have. And, uh, let's get the— get this done and pick our new manager. And be done with it.

We've been at this a long time. Well, I certainly agree with that. I, I think that we've had a chance to look over the— except for Jose, we've all had a chance to look over the, um, the applications. But by the time November 10th comes along, we all will have had a chance to review the applications that we've had in. And I would point out that of the 28 applicants we've had None of them live in the city.

So it doesn't seem like there was— there's— there's been at least one. One. Well, recently, maybe. But the major— the vast majority of our applicants do not live in the city. So I don't think there's— it shouldn't be necessary to hold the application period open for a time after our proposition passed.

So I think we should move with this. I think we should move forward as Mr. Caciola suggests. And review the applications that we have by the November 10th, and recognize that we do have a very well-qualified, uh, applicant who has already been on the job, and for a probationary period, I would suggest that Mr. Putney's already been engaged in one and has done quite well. Council Member Davidson, uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I do agree with you that, uh, Mr. Putney has done a really good job as an interim city manager, and I do agree with you that I need to double-check because there were two more recent applicants that struck me as potentials.

But, uh, I do— I'm pretty confident that I do believe currently he is the strongest applicant. I do appreciate that he knows Kodiak, he grew up in Kodiak, and he grew up in a— his career grew into this level of responsibility through his experience as a patrol officer, turning into experience as the police chief. So I do trust his knowledge of the community. Doesn't mean that I necessarily am convinced that he is the right one right now to hire without doing any interviews or revisiting the matrix. But one of the reasons I wanted to speak Uh, now it was to remind ourselves and also our audience and our community, um, that, you know, there's been a lot of concerns about whether or not the process is public and transparent.

And, um, in a way, the process has been paused, which we transparently communicated at our meeting when we decided to wait until the election. And at that point, We decided— we looked at all the applicants we had. We had a special work session. We decided that none of those ones— and that was before Putney had applied— but none of those were ones we were interested in interviewing, and that moving forward, every applicant would be posted in upcoming meeting packets. So we have been transparent in that every single applicant for the position has been not even just through a public records request, but through our actual meeting packets, been accessible to everyone in our community.

And if they had an opinion, they had the opportunity to come and share that, and they will have future— even if we choose to move forward now, you know, we still have the— I mean, we're not meeting next week at the special work session to talk about this, but public comment, you can tell us anything you want to tell us on any time as long as it's 3 minutes, right? Um, and then at these other future sessions. So in my perspective, there is still opportunity for us to get community feedback and for us to do our due diligence and our responsibility to review those applications and make a careful, um, good decision to move Kodiak forward now and not wait another 3 to 6 months, um, to, to put somebody permanently in that position. Thank you, Council Member West. Thank you.

Uh, thank you. I, I, it's nice to have, um, know that Juna has done a lot of, um, hiring, and so the process— so it's just really good for me to hear you say we've already done this. Um, I wanted to make sure I gave everybody a chance, and it sounds like we have. So, um, I'm keen, uh, if we don't need to make a, uh, we're not making any proposals, any voting, but I am keen for this to— for us to have a chance to review all the applications before the November 10th work session. Does that mean in the next 11 days someone can put in an application?

Are we going to close it on November 10th, are we going to close it? When are we going to close it? What, what is, what are you calling a proper time to say application period is closed? Yeah, I guess I defer to Brandy on that because I didn't actually think about that side. Yeah.

So, as, as you and I had discussed, the, the application process was closed on October 10th following the municipal election. Um, if it's council's desire to reopen that for a period. But following council discussions and council wanting, um, basically wanting to revisit this following the results of the municipal election, um, that it was, it was closed by city staff on the 10th. Now again, that can be reopened if that's council's desire.

Council Member Charles Davidson. Fine.

Does that mean that we have received other applications after the 10th? I mean, because I don't even think anything after the 10th shouldn't even be in the file, right? I mean, that you don't accept anything after the 10th, or is it from the date of the, of the mailing? Or I guess mail is the old way, I guess. Yeah, so as soon as it was closed, closed on the NeoGov website, then we just were no longer accepting applications.

So we would not have received— So I'd like to offer a point of clarification. There were a total of 30 applicants received. 2 Applicants have pulled their applications. Wendy Bishop and Darren Hargraves have pulled their applications. So you currently have 28 active applications.

Council Member West. So I just want us to think about, uh, if it was closed on the 10th, does some— but the, the vote wasn't confirmed until the 22nd. The, uh, results of the election were certified on the 22nd. Yeah, so that just seems like we maybe have cut it off a little bit early. Tell me if I'm wrong, but— No, I just think we've given plenty of time is what you're thinking.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm just wondering, you know, if we're giving a whole fair— as much as we can consider this a fair deal to everybody. Who lives—. Well, in effect, we've been taking applications for a couple of years. Yeah, yeah.

Council Member Davidson, Junah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um, you have to have a closing date, and we did, and I trust in our staff that it, you know, it was published. And, you know, like our mayor said, We have been accepting applications for a couple years and actively, like, even when we had Mr. Ladic as an interim city manager, like, we weren't not accepting applications. And I've been on the city council for 1 year and we had this discussion on my first city council meeting. So that's why I feel like, um, there's been lots of opportunity for people to apply. It's just that now we know that if they live outside of the city limits, we can hire them, because they could have applied before even if they didn't live in the city.

We just couldn't hire them.

Next, Council Member Charles Davidson. My, my concern is you have new members on this council. Go ahead. Oh, You have two, two new members on this council. We haven't been part of any of that discussion that you've had.

So that's one of the reasons I felt is fair for us, the new members, to— but, but this process looks like after hearing what you say in that, I, I think it—. I guess I might change my position on it because it's gone through the legal process and, uh, well, even the new council members will have over 10 days to review the applications that we have in. Uh, Brandy. So I did look up that council passed the resolution to put the ballot measure on the ballot on June 25th, 2026. So the first discussion council had about adding the proposition to the ballot came on May 12th, 2026.

Yes, I see that. Council Member Mangini. Yeah, hopefully you guys can all hear me. I'm having trouble with my camera, but good discussion. I tend to agree with June as well.

I think we've left this open for quite a long time, and even people that didn't live in the city applied already. I have a hard time believing there was someone sitting around waiting for the position to be decided through voting. So I would like to get moving forward personally. Um, that's just—. That's my thoughts.

Councilmember Calderón. I honestly think we need to look thoroughly through the applications and listen to the city people and see what, you know, they have to say about it. I know people don't show up and don't call, right? But We all have jobs. There's a lot of us who have 3 to 4 jobs.

Not all of us are retired. Um, I think we need to look thoroughly. I think we need to make the right decision in listening to the city. And, you know, yeah, I mean, if we didn't put a due date on that and we're not consistent, then why are we consistent on the other way and another place and not in that place giving that time limit? So, um, we need consistency.

Council Member West. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, I think if we look at the fact that applications closed on the 10th, but I, I didn't know that, that's a couple days after the election, and then on it wasn't certified until the 22nd, uh, seems like a gap. I mean, I mean, are we giving— I want to give people every chance every chance. I mean, I know I want— I also want to move it along.

Um, so help me out here. I—. It just seems like a gap that it was closed on the 10th. When we say closed, we took it down off the website. It wasn't that anybody emailed their applications and we sent them back.

Did we receive— sorry, we receive any applications after the 10th? I can verify that with the HR manager, but I'm— I would bet that that's a no if we took it off of the website, because through the NeoGov system, you apply through the system. Okay. So just what I'm— you hear what I'm saying? If we close it on the 10th, so you on the 11th, 12th, even after the 22nd, you want to apply, you could not.

That's a barrier.

No. Okay, Council Member Djuna Davidson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Every job has a closing date unless you have it open until filled. We chose a closing date.

We did. There was a closing date. Um, I want to acknowledge that we do have two new council members who have not been with us as we have received the applications, which does mean it is extra work for the two of you to review those 28 applications before November 10th, but that is still a period of time for you to review those applications.

And as Mr. Davidson said, some of them might take more time for you to review. I have reviewed all of them, so I know exactly how long it took me. I will review them again, um, uh, but that is part of the burden that we choose when we decide to serve, is at certain times we give more of our time to do that extra reading, to do our due diligence. Um, it doesn't mean that we should stop moving the process forward. Thank you.

Thank you, council member. Uh, council member Walker. Well, I've been here through the whole process plus a lot more. Process. Yeah.

And, uh, and it is amazing, the, the process does work. It does. Um, but we have had a lot of time, a lot of different people come through with that, you know, applications in different times on, on different ones. And, uh, you know, I, you know, I was on a many, um, many, uh Hiring. Yeah.

And, you know, you have to, as much as you want to make sure that you're giving everybody a good, you know, opportunity to file and for the positions and everything. But, you know, we've already gone through this. We've gone through I don't know how many different times going back through applications from people all over the whole, what, the whole upper Northwest and part of the country.

And on top of it, you know, sometimes you don't really get the best bang for the buck for even that. But, you know, we have thrown out there, we've had an interim manager right now that knows his job. He knows Kodiak, and he is ready to take on this job for us, the community. And he's— from what I've seen and went through, and I've been through a lot of them— this, this, uh, this gentleman, it's applied and has been working in that capacity, and we've all seen him, and, you know, he's done a great job. And, uh, you're never— you're never going to find that perfect one, but he comes really doggone close to it.

And I think we just get going and move forward and hire the person that we have in there right now and move on.

Councilmember Calderón. I unfortunately feel like I can't do that because I, I don't even know who he is. Um, I haven't done my research yet, but when I do, trust me, I will do my research and I will let you know what I find. Um, I don't think, I don't think we should move on yet with this person just because I, I still don't know what, what, who he is. Um, a lot of people still want to say something with— or the manager's position.

Um, I just— like, for example, we used to have a previous manager, right, for this— for Kodiak. Am I correct? How long— how long ago was that? Remember, a couple of them, 4 years ago. Do we still have— when they were in—.

Whoever—. Okay, you guys are here for— you guys were here longer than I am, obviously. And so with just that being said, I think we need to see what the city says and what I find and what, you know, further investigation. Well, for one thing, it's not up to the city. This is our charge.

This is the council's decision to make. And honestly, it didn't— it wouldn't matter if every single person in the, in the, in the community came up and said something that different than our judgment. It's still our job to use our judgment and not to lean on what, what people think should be going on. Moment, please. And with all due respect, uh, to the new council members, um, that's what it is to be a new council member.

Catch up. You have time. The homework is there. Figure it out. If you don't know who Mr. Putney is now, it's easy to find out.

He's lived here his whole life, pretty much. And I would suggest that Mr. Putney has been padding his resume for this position since he was hired as a patrol officer. He's shown us over the years and over many years, and we all know him very well, that he's responsible, capable, and of good ethical and moral character. We're not going to find a better candidate. In fact, if we, if we didn't have someone like Mr. Putney to look at, we'd be going through the whole process.

We'd be slowly winnowing down to 28, down to 10, down to 5, down to 3, and figuring out who we might want to bring here for an interview, which all costs money and takes time. That's not the position we're in. We're in a very, very enviable position. And I would have envied our position right now a year ago. Boy, I'll tell you.

Yeah. And we're not going to find a better candidate. We're just not going to. And that also has to do with our longtime commitment to hiring someone from Alaska or someone from Kodiak, if possible. Someone with local knowledge who already knows the situation.

That seemed like an impossible task, but now he's in. He's, he's been before us, and he's already— he, in the years past, he's been our, um, acting city manager in the past and always performed well. And over the last few months, he's been our interim city manager and has performed very well. I can tell you from personal experience that Mr. Putney really works hard at this job. He's a guy who really does his homework.

And we went to Washington, D.C. He was very knowledgeable, calm, cool, and collected, and was a great part of our team when we went to lobby. We're simply not going to find a better candidate. I mean, I want this to go through the process and to carefully consider every candidate. But the fact is, we've been at this for a long time now.

We're in the enviable position of having the perfect candidate. And I, I think the only thing that's going to make Mr. Putney not be a, a great city manager in the years past is some sort of catastrophe that befalls somebody. Or so I would suggest we do move forward as suggested, that we go through all of the, the manager's, um, applications before November 10th, and then on November 10th make that decision as to whether we want to bring more— some of these applicants forward for an interview, but with the understanding given to staff that we may just choose Mr. Putney as the obviously best qualified candidate. Um, Mr. Charles Davis. Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

I, I, I meant no disrespect to our chief and presently prevailing acting manager, and I agree with you, everything you've said about him. He's— he knows the city from top to bottom because he's been here long. He was He was a young man in— I don't know what it is— in junior high school when I first met him. So, you know, he's been in the community a long time. And, and I just think that, that, uh, I was just trying to protect our new members' app, you know, process to the— because if we're going to vote for somebody, and yet I didn't have the, the opportunity to review all of the applicants, you know.

But the way the lawyer— our lawyer— has laid it out, I'm, I'm perfectly at ease with what we can do.

Uh, Council Member Djuna Davidson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to reiterate that it is a disadvantage for the new council members, but you don't restart a process every time there's a new person at the table. You can't. That's how you don't get anything done.

I do want to say, while I agree with a lot of what you said, Terry, um, and I know that you were very staunch in your support of Tim as the best candidate, and I agree he is one of the best, possibly the best. I just need to double-check one of the candidates that I also liked. Um, but I disagree that it wouldn't make a difference if everyone in the city came and spoke to us and said they hated Tim. It might not make a difference for you, and that's okay, but for me, if every single person in the city came and told me what they thought, I would reserve my preference for the city manager, because my responsibility is to listen to the voice of the community. However, they have had many chances, and they will have November 4th, November 10th, and November 12th before we actually make a decision.

3 Opportunities to come and tell us what they think. And of course, we all know that if we see them in the streets, they'll tell us what they think too, which is awesome. But every time someone comes to me one-to-one, I will talk to them, but I will tell them, you should come to the City Council meeting and tell all of us. It is more effective if you come and you tell all of us than if you tell me, because I can hear what you say and I can value your perspective. But, but we all need to know what the community wants, and the only way we know that is if the community tells us.

Um, but the community elected us. All of us were, were chosen to be in this position to help shepherd the success of Kodiak and make decisions that are not always easy. Um, and I think it's just time to make a decision. Well, point well taken, Council Member Davidson. Uh, we shouldn't, of course, ignore public sentiment and the judgment of the public.

I was trying to make the point that it still is our responsibility. Agreed. Council Member West. Yeah, thank you all. Thank you all very, very much.

Um, I appreciate it. Sounds like we do have consensus to go forth on the 10th, but I want to, um, share some of the things that, uh, as I look through our, um, applications, and that the matrix is, is, um, very health— uh, helpful, helpful and healthy.

To go through and put the name. And I made several blank copies so I could get up to 28. And, but I think some things that are, have been brought up to me to look for, because I always thought, oh man, this person really looks cool. But it's important that some of the things that we want to focus on is municipal experience. And Alaska experience.

So Mr. Putney is far and above when we look at the other applicants that we've had. People can, can manage— I don't want to name things because that's particularly on their applications, but they can manage lots of things. It's not the same as managing the city and having municipal experience. That's one thing I've learned. So as you look through those applications, I want to encourage you to look at, do they have any Alaska experience?

We're a little different. And do they have actual municipal experience? And I think that's what June is talking about. There's one person we thought, oh, maybe this is actually— so, um, anyway, thank you all. Council Member Charles Davidson.

Thank you. I'm sorry, I'm kind of winded tonight, but I just want to let people realize This is a very unique town to have to be a city manager in. You have 2 or 3 municipal airports, you have 3 ports, you have so many things that other municipalities of our size, 6,200, where you have to maintain your own sewer system, your grid, your— you know, that's why it's so expensive to live on an island. I just want to let people realize that that's why it's so difficult to get the right manager, to have the right fit. But I agree, we probably have the right fit right now.

That's all I have.

Any further council discussion?

Do we have consensus to move forward on the, uh, as sketched out by Mr. Caciola, for reviewing our— the applications before the 10th? And then at the meeting on the 10th, we will decide whether or not we want to bring people forward for interviews, or whether we might want to offer the job to Mr. Putney. And then we will be directing staff to be ready for the eventuality that we offer the job to Mr. Putney, just so they're prepared without prejudging that.

Does that sound— is that clear enough, uh, do you think, Miss Branecke? Mr. Cacciola, you've been looking on interestedly. Do you have any comments yourself? Uh, one question. So if council wants to proceed as, uh, Mayor Haines just explained, uh, would the draft employment contract that would be in the packet on the 12th— would you want that to have a probationary period wherein the agreement could be terminated not for cause without any severance?

Say that again. Will it— is there any reason not to have that in there with the understanding that we could take it out if we wanted to after discussion in executive session, say, when we're negotiating the contract? Or when we're discussing the contract?

No, that, that we could do that easily enough.

So there's really no harm in having a, a severance clause, or a, a probationary clause rather, uh, in, in, in our draft contract?

Council Member Walker? Well, he basically has already been through that process. Right. I think a lot longer, a longer than, uh, as right now he's been there than most people that we brought in from down south and had them here, and it turned out within a month they were gone. It's a unique place to live.

It's got a lot of unique people here, and we follow it by the, the, the rules And we have a clerk and her staff that keep us straight. And, you know, thank goodness. We're, you know, we need to move on. We really do. We've seen some great people that we all came through here that we thought were just great, and within 2 weeks we found out that wasn't the right one for us.

Well, I think it, it might be wise for us in general to have a probationary or a clause like this in our contracts as a default going forward, given our experience, as guessed out by Council Member Walker. Yeah, I agree. Any further council discussion?

Uh, hearing none, is that enough direction for staff?

It is for me. Okay, that's right. Nick. No, that was Charles. Oh, Charles.

Sorry, Charles. I got it. Which pair? Which pair? If there is nothing further, then this— oh, is there something further?

Oh, go ahead. So as noted in the, um, Briefly, I just want to say, as noted in Charles's memo, um, regarding the application, so we are going to be putting— so we— they've already been included in meeting packets, but we are going to put them all in one place online so that you're not having to go to every work session packet. Um, however, I did want to know for the council as a whole, we can also create binders for you. I didn't know if you wanted printed interview packets or interview. That sounds like a lot of paper.

What's the council's pleasure? Council Member Calderón? I honestly, I'm a paper person. I'm telling you, I'm old school, and so I'm a paper person because I like to make notes and just— for me. So these—.

And correct me if I'm wrong— I figured for the, the council that has seen the applications as they've come in. Yeah. Um, but for Charlie and Jose, we can definitely print out packets or print out binders for you.