Denali Borough: October 21, 2006 Community & Outdoor Recreation Committee Meeting

Denali, guess. Yeah, not guess.

That great one. The great one. Each word capitalized and spaces.

All right, well, welcome everybody. Very exciting to be here on this snowy evening.

Crazy. Um, let's do roll call real quick. Did you call it to order? Yeah, uh, it's called to order. Healy Parks.

Here. Jess Tubman. She let us know last meeting that she'd be gone. Yeah. Jess Tubman.

I'm sorry, Nicole Street. Here. Al Lucasburg. Here. Patrice Levine.

Yeah, Levine, Levine, Levine, Levine.

Abigail Walker. Here. Tina Graham. Here. Here's a quorum.

Perfect. All right, let's look over the agenda real quick.

Um, I know Patrice said we helped work on this agenda, but if there's anybody that has anything they would like to add, this would be a great time to do it.

All right, I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda as written. Second. All in favor? Aye.

All right, public comment. Do we want to address public comments? I mean, there's no public here to comment, but the public comments we received, should we just wait until we discuss that in the agenda further on? Can we do that? Yeah, they're all related to the, the one item, so I think we'll just wait for that.

Okay, all right, that sounds good. So that being there's no member of the public that's here to comment, and nobody's appearing online. I guess just acknowledge that we— they did receive 8 written public comments prior to the meeting. All right, we did receive 8 written comments prior to the meeting. The copies of them are available, and it's all related to the shooting range, and we'll just discuss those public comments and acknowledge them during our discussion of the shooting range, if that's okay.

Okay, all right, uh, minutes from the previous meeting. Do— does anybody have any corrections or additions to the— to that? No, motion to approve. Second. All right, all in favor of accepting those?

Aye.

Moving right along, Stephanie, would you bless us with your director's report? Yeah, well, I guess I just wanted to double-check expectations. I've, I've gone through it and kind of read it, and we've discussed it in the past. I'm I'm wondering if you guys want to proceed that way or if you just want to ask questions. So what are your thoughts and preferences?

I personally like the discussion and the hearing it. I appreciate the reading it. It gave me some notes that I was able to write down. Okay. But also I think for our public that might be watching, it would be good to have it discussed openly rather than just read.

Okay, awesome. Well, I'll go through. So first thing on the report is there has been an appointment to seat D on the CORC, and that will be Michael Christie, who applied to be one of the original members of the CORC. We didn't have enough space at that time. And then with the resignation, Mayor Noll made that appointment.

Michael had previous engagements planned prior to the appointment on the CORC, so isn't able to make it today, but anticipate that he will be here at the February meeting. So I'm excited to have him here. And if you remember, I think he is an avid cyclist, so I think it will add a great rounding out to the CORC with someone who's gotten more knowledge about biking and an interest and can represent that community. And especially since we're getting bike trails, or bike paths, I should say, it'll be great to have him in that perspective and expertise. Then I'll say that I went to the Alaska Parks and Recreation Association meeting where parks and rec, I guess not officials, but professionals from across the state come together.

That was in Kenai this year, and I enjoyed learning more about playgrounds and grant opportunities and also meeting some colleagues from the Fairbanks North Star Borough. And I think that that's just great to be able to connect with others in Alaska who also are in interior Alaska and manage things. So good connections to the, the person who manages Tina Lakes Recreation Area in North Pole. And we already had some great discussions about vaulted toilets, which I won't fill you in on, and operating them in the winter. Man, I learned a lot, but it was great.

And then also with some of the grant writers for the Parks and Rec Department up in Fairbanks, North Star Borough. And I think that we can learn a lot from them. And I'm really eager to check out some of the grants that they've done and the upgrades they've made, say, to like the Chena Lakes area is getting some bike paths and they have some mosaics. I don't know if you saw that on Facebook. So yeah, excited to partner with them and learn from them.

You know, a larger municipality who's been doing this a little bit longer. Then the borough website. I know that this is on the agenda, but just to give you all an update that we are doing a major overhaul of the borough website. There is a contract for an outside agency to help us do that. It's going to improve our— mainly our ADA accessibility that's required by law, but also at the same time it's going to be a wholesale review of navigation and like, like wayfinding, which is not, not trailwayfinding, but, you know, just wayfinding on the website.

And I think, you know, the idea is 3 clicks or less to get what you're looking for. So as we go over the website analytics that Amber has prepared for us, just keep that in mind, is that we're, we're going to do this major overhaul this year, but would love, you know, your feedback on that as well.

Anything else that I missed on that, Amber, for the website that you'd like to add about the website project?

That right? Power down. Okay, good. And then separated pathway updates. So the design work continues on our separated pathway projects.

So we have the ones along the highway and the school area paths. So the construction for the paths in the Healy area, both around the school and along the Parks Highway from Santana to Antler, that is right now we're forecasted that we will be able to begin construction next summer. So summer 2027. So I'm super excited about that. And I'm not sure if everything will be wrapped up by the end of 2027 or will continue into 2028.

One thing that they did mention is they are keeping an eye on when the school calendar starts for the fall semester and trying to see if they can get the paths around the school leading up to the school on School Road and, and Suntree done by the start of school. So that'll be super exciting. Riding that gets done. That sounds like a bike day. Yeah, I know.

In the fall. Yeah. Can you remind me, what did we settle in on for the name? Is it—. We haven't settled yet.

Okay. So we're still calling it separated? We're— well, I'll say Denali Bike Path is— I know we talked about— is kind of what I'm calling it now. But in separated, like, I should actually start using that, like, a name in the reports. In all of our documents, it says separated pathway, and that's what it's officially called in our memorandums of agreement.

But I think last time we talked about community bike path. Yeah. You know, where community was in there. Denali community. Yeah.

And I mean, there is some more feedback. We can go into that about the name that—. Oh, there's other input. There's other input. OK.

I was like, oh, do I want to talk about this at this court? Maybe not. So I didn't put it on the agenda. But thinking about— If something called Denali Community Bike Path, will people in other areas of the borough feel left out is one of the feedbacks that we got. Does this actually apply to me?

Because people might think it's just about the park. I was like, oh, I hadn't considered that before. Except Denali and Ferry is what I was thinking. Yeah. So there's like, there's, so I think, it's TBD.

It's TBD. So anyway, so these bike path projects, I'll just call it bike path. One of the other intersections here, um, with the Healy, um, area shooting range discussions is that it is very likely that the 252 material site, um, the Pangani Pit that is unofficially used as a shooting range will be advertised as the space that is available in the construction contract. So that basically means that, you know, they could take gravel from there, use it as a material source, or potentially do staging. Uh, and I've heard that that pit has quality gravel, high-quality gravel.

And also it's more advantageous for a contractor to use a DOT pit because I believe I heard the DOT is not charging for that gravel. So that means it's really, really a high likelihood that that pit is going to be used by DOT next summer and the next, the summer after, I should say, the DOT contractor. We won't know exactly what pit a contractor chooses. They'll put it as like a bunch of different sites that are available. To have staging or material or gravel extraction from, but we won't know until the contractor puts in their bid and the winning contractor is selected.

So, but it's very likely. I think that we can— I'd say the likelihood's pretty high. I'd say 80% or more. Because even with staging, that could be where their campers and trailers are parked that they live there for the summer. Yeah.

Which we can't shoot with people's trailers there. So it might be, there might be problems. I don't know. I haven't, I haven't, um,. But also I was like, I'm actually surprised that they said it was quality gravel because some of the things that we heard from people was that the shooting that has happened there created the gravel or made the gravel less.

I. Think they're saying that the, the material behind that. Oh, yeah. If you keep. Going,.

If you keep going, that, that the composition of it otherwise makes it like that. Yeah, exactly. So it's compared to like the pit across from Antler the quality of the gravel is better there. And then, you know, the DOT did, I believe, pay someone to clean up the pit. So, yeah.

Okay, bike paths in the Cantwell area. So the design work, we're doing a project kickoff right now. The DOT is leading that. So it's a different funding source. So it's on a different timeline than the other bike path projects.

And so we're working right now on a project management plan with DOT and a public involvement plan as well. And that all has to be approved by the, the agency that does the grant, which is the Build America Better Bureau. And so we're working on just the initial stages, but the grant agreement has been signed by DOT and we're working on, you know, what those— again, that public involvement and engagement might look like. So excited that that is kicking off. And then to just give another update is the draft statewide transportation improvement plan is out for review now.

That's a plan that is— it's like basically forecasting what the state is going to spend with the DOT budget in the next 3 years. And there are some good increases that we need for construction funding for the Healy Area Separated Pathways. So if you do review the projects, you'll see that in there. There is also a rehabilitation of the highway near the Bear Creek area, so mile 262 to 276. Why I'm bringing that up here is we can also advocate at this time that there are pedestrian or cycling accommodations if they're looking at the bridge.

So it's all of the, it's in planning and design, like how do we make sure it's a safe place? And people might not think that people live in this area, but we know that people do live in the area and they might be using the highway. And then also there is planning and design funding for the railroad realignment and reconstruction project down where we have that at-grade railroad crossing south of the park. And that kind of fits into this overall bundle of where separated pathways might go along the highway in that area. So it's great to see funding for that increase.

And then lastly, this one was a new one to me that I wasn't quite aware of. There is planning and design stage funding for a, a new bridge that would run parallel to the current Moody Bridge, which is that very long bridge. Some people call it the Windy Bridge as you're going south from Antler Ridge towards the park entrance before you hit the canyon. And so right now what I'm reading from the STIP is that there is planning and design funding for a whole separate bridge, and that could accommodate pedestrians and cyclists, which has been a key missing piece in how is that that going to be accommodated with the separated pathways because something like that is very, very expensive. So I saw that in your report.

Yeah, I was like,. What? That— yeah, it was. I wanted to thank you for linking those right in your document. That's awesome.

And I appreciate that. I'm listening to check those out. And then I would say, you know, the borough will be submitting comments, but I'd encourage, you know, anyone who's listening online or committee members, you know, or you know someone who wants to make a comment about any of these projects in support of these funds for increased construction for the Healy area bike paths and also for these other projects where we might get some more of this pedestrian and cycling infrastructure to really separate people from the vehicle traffic. That could be important and they are accepting comments through October 29th. So that is something exciting.

I think I'll pause there because that's a lot about the bike paths and see if anybody has any questions. Yeah, I do. Just for those people online who might want to make a comment, where are they going to go to do that? Oh, okay. So I'm going to do a pitch for signing up for our Denali Download newsletter, because if you do that on the borough website, then you will get the link to comment on the STIP.

So we send that out in the newsletter. If you— I don't think I included it in here, but people are— feel free to contact me for that link, or you can just Google Alaska STIP, and it'll take you to the DOT website and they have a form, an online form which you submit. Yeah, thank you, Nicole.

Any other questions or comments about bypass? Nope. Okay. So Antler Ridge, anybody been out there the past week? No, but you said that there was flagging being done, right?

Yeah. So they staked and they have cut the vegetation or the trees on the lower trail. So I went, um, out there before the snowstorm hit. So I timed it well. Um, and so they have, uh, started that, that clearing.

Um, I think that they've actually finished for the lower loop. That was the one for what the Migratory Bird Act, you need to clear basically after July 2nd. And so they've done that so that they can start in the spring on the, the trail construction because they'll have removed the, the vegetation now. And then there is a slightly later finish date for Antler Ridge now. August 17th is the date that the contractors are thinking that that will be done.

They have until August 31st to finish the project. So we'll see. I don't think it'll be delayed too much more because they're getting pretty close to their timeline, but exciting that that will be done near the end of next summer. Do we have access to like a map or a trail? I mean, I know we've seen like little zigzag, but like, do you actually have like specs on it?

I do, but I will say that there's something unique about this contract is the, the state parks did the initial design, but when the contractor comes on board, they also look at the design and they suggest modifications because they'll be the ones building the trail. So there have been some modifications made to the design from the original, like I have the 95% design versus the 100% or the as build design. And so I do not have those right now, the updated ones. But we will have those. And if there's an interest, the project engineer is currently traveling.

So. I would love to see those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess we never really did that.

And that's not— that wasn't part of the GIS thing, right? No, that— yeah, that was separate, you know, just going through the design and like something, you know, I would say, like, as the CORC is new, like, what's handled administratively and then what is, is like the CORC's focus. You know, I think, you know, in the past, like, Teresa had, you know, specifically worked on the trail alignment. But at that time, you know, the CORC wasn't doing a plan versus— Yeah,. We were just a volunteer group.

Yeah. Yeah. And this one's a little bit tricky because it's like a state-contracted DOT contract on Verrückt? Like, it's not like you guys are in charge. Well, I would say, you know, we did receive the grant and then it's— there's another entity delivering the project, which is great for us.

They do all of the project management, but, but I do play like a project liaison role. So I have looked at and I've signed off on, on the trail maps and have done back and forth with them, you know, multiple times on the design. Like for instance, there was going to be a loop trail around the toilets. And I was like, we don't need to maintain that extra, you know, bit of trail and it might cost us X, Y, and Z much more money. Let's just put one trail in from the parking lot versus multiple trails.

And but like right now DNR does manage that contract, so I don't talk to the contractors, you know, or I would say involved in their direct work. The contract is managed through state parks, but I'm like, the toilets are locked, tell them. Pack it in, pack it out, right?

But I'll, I've got a note that folks are interested in the trail design now.

But just a general note, as you're going into the parking lot, it will follow along the power line. So that is how the forest loop will go. And, you know, it might be a little bit different than what people expect. Like, why isn't it going up the ridge? But another consideration is there are Accessibility considerations, and with that you have to control your, your slope and your width so that people could take a wheelchair on the chair, for example.

So what might be ideal for a hyper-elongated ridgeline is slightly different, you know, for a trail that is going to accommodate other uses. Or even a multi-generational family. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Any other questions about Island Ridge? I know we've got the signage on the edge, I believe. Right, yeah, we have more to talk about later. Yeah, okay, Otto Lake Lions Club Park. So I wanted to give folks a little bit of an update on what is happening there.

So for a little bit of context, we, the borough, put in a grant request for money from the state legislature for a vaulted toilet. So that was awarded. And then there were also some concerns about the playground area at the Cantwell Ridge Lake Park. And so we're combining that into a bundled project that will also use borough funds. The assembly approved to use $200,000 in addition for the project.

And so right now I'm working with the engineers. We're working with Goldstream Engineering on this, on the design. One of the things that we learned at Antler Ridge is it's very windy. And if you have the toilet doors facing into the wind, they can slam back. And so we're kind of working on a revision so we won't have the toilet doors facing in the direction of the wind right now.

So maybe not that exciting, but just kind of like an explanation of why things take a little bit longer when you, you know, you've got your design stages like 35, 70, 90, 95, you know, 100%. So I'm working with Goldstream right now to to do that. And then we're going to estimate, we're going to get a contracted estimate for how much it's going to cost because I want to make sure that we have enough money. We are going to apply to the Rasmussen Foundation, that's our plan, to help us out with the purchase of playground equipment. But it may be that, you know, there's the desire to also say have a covered pavilion there with a concrete pad.

How much money do we have? Do we need to phase the improvements in the design? So before we put that out for bid, just wanting to double-check our figures there. And I still anticipate that we'll get out an invitation to bid and construct next summer. But just want to make sure we've, you know, we're doing it right with all of the details.

Okay, let me see. And then other developments are that the Healy Valley Lions Club was contacted by a company that does boat rentals up at Chena Lakes and Denali Lakes in Fairbanks, North Star Borough, about providing boat rentals at Otow Lake. And so we've been working with the Lions Club and looking at our lease with the, the railroad and with this company to see what that might look like. So I don't really have many details to share, but just trying to make sure there's enough room for everything. We also have a like ongoing construction project next summer too, but, but super excited that there might be boat rentals on Otter Lake.

There used to be with DOC. Yeah, but you know what I mean, like it works really good there. But yeah, that's exciting. Um, is the— it was the Alaska Dream Adventures. Are.

They the ones that— I don't know if you know this offhand— that have like the self-sufficient like building where you go and rent like fishing equipment and other things up in Fairbanks? Or you don't know that? I don't know about the fishing. I should have looked it up. Um, yeah, they do have a website that, that shows what they do.

I do know that they do boat rentals at Tianna, um, lakes and, and China Lakes, but I'm not sure about, you know, the—. Well, I only asked because I was thinking, I was, yeah, when I was trying to picture it, yeah, like, I'm like, oh, well, if it's this self-sufficient, or are they like moving operations down here to have people? And. Yeah, I. Think we don't know.

They would have like a staff person down, down here as well, I believe, is the intent. And like, they have a mobile like office trailer I think that they were thinking about. And then boat racks, you know, of course. Yeah. Don't have all the answers.

You can move on from that. Yeah. But exciting. Yeah. Yeah.

It's exciting. Good opportunity. And then also, you know, something that is coming up is the, the Otto Lake Park is on railroad land. And so the way it's worked in the past is the borough does a master lease for the land and then we do a sublease to the Lions Club. The last length of that lease was 15 years, and we're coming up on the end of that lease in September 2027.

So we'll start talks with the railroad again about renewing that lease. And yeah, all of the things that we have to do. Now, why is that a 15-year lease? And like, say, the lease that we were going to be talking about later is shorter. One annual.

Um, so I'm not sure what length the railroad will do for their leases now. It could be, you know, a 15-year lease, it could be a 10-year lease. You don't know for sure that you'll secure that? Yeah, I don't know for sure that it's going to be a 15-year lease moving into the future. I know that the lease rate will go up, um, I've been told by the railroad.

Um, and then there's a difference between the lease agreement that we have at Denali Park entry permit. Oh, and so there's a difference between, you know, a lease and like infrastructure and everything, and then the entry permit is slightly different. So like different permitting systems basically. And lease, like I would think, you know, can be exclusive to versus the entry permit is, you know, your right to enter someplace but not have exclusive use.

15 Years ago, I'm sure the rules were different than they are now, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. I, I, we'll see what happens. So I'm sure that I will know more by the end of this process of talking about the lease on Otter Lake Park. But any other questions about Otter Lake Park before I move on?

Okay, this is a new one. Okay, Cantwell Shooting Range. So we've talked a little bit about the potential for a Healy area shooting range. So the Cantwell shooting range, for those who don't know the, the backstory, it is managed by the Denali Sportsman Association on land that's leased from ATNA, and that's next to the transfer station in Cantwell. And the reason I'm sharing this is because I was asked by the Planning Commission and the Assembly to share it because we brought up at a joint Assembly and Planning Commission meeting in September the potential for some land swaps between OTNA and the borough.

And so one of the areas that is being considered is a potential swap that would have the borough own the land under the Cantwell Area Shooting Range. And there were a few questions that were brought up by the assembly and the planning commission that I thought I would share here. They did ask, like, has— does the Corps know about, you know, the potential land swap? And then also for looking at a potential shooting range in the Healy area. You know, there's questions about, you know, a nonprofit entity managing it, liability insurance requirements, like what would that look like?

And then cleanup requirements for any type of garbage or, you know, if there's lead or like a contaminated substance, like what would that look like during and at the end of a lease period? So I don't have too much more to share other than the mayor has reached out to the Denali Sportsman's Association to start discussions on, well, what are their views on this potential, you know, land swap? I can't remember the term of their lease, but I think it's longer than 15 years. I think, Lhvatna, I don't remember the exact amount. So the land swap was not like established already.

It's not happening yet. No, it's, it's just proposed. Yeah. And I believe, and the clerk can correct me if I'm wrong, that the assembly needs to approve any actions associated with land swaps. And honestly, I think it's a great testing the waters situation for potential future projects, really.

So is this currently Ohtono land that the borough is leasing? No, that the Sportsman—. Sportsman, yeah, was leasing. Did they pay Ahtna for the lease? I would assume, because.

I don't know the answer to that question. I would assume. I don't know what the fee is. Yeah, and I'd be curious if they had any previous agreement to clean up, you know, what's already been deposited there.

Yeah, before the, um, before the borough would take ownership, right? I think that there's— yeah, there's some some, some questions. Yeah, I know I've heard, because obviously I've talked about the, you know, the shooting up here in this pit, and, um, I know there's residents down there too that it's like, how do we always end up with shooting pits right adjacent to, um, to residential areas? And, and I think that would be worth, you know, discussing at some point. And I'm just more— I'm more curious why Ahtna wants to to swap that if it's not— I mean, I was assuming it was a money-making maybe lease for them.

So they're— I don't know, it feels like there's a reason why they want to get rid of it, right? You know, um, who wants to manage a shooting range? I mean, I think might be— I think that that is like, you know, for like a landowner, um, You know, it's, it's a lot, right, to consider. And then there are, you know, other areas, you know, like other considerations is— no, currently. Okay, so how much?

Okay, I'm just going to tell you the story. Okay, so there are certain lands that were held aside for community development, and those basically are are in Ahtna ownership, but they have community facilities on them. One of those is the land under the Cantwell School, and the other is the land under the Cantwell Transfer Station. So part of this is kind of also this whole scale looking at like what Ahtna lands are and does Ahtna want to retain land that has borough facilities on it, or would there be— does it make sense for the borough to manage exchange the land and any, say, like contamination that we— we're looking at transfer sites, but I think about our schools, but like any of that liability associated with that when, you know, with the potential land exchange, the land could go to the borough and would revert to Ahtna at the future time if the borough abandoned those facilities. So I think it's part of these larger discussions about, you know, are there swaps that are beneficial for both, um, ATNA and the borough?

Like if we're looking at areas that might be primed for housing versus areas that are adjacent to a port and on the site. So I'd say that there are two potential land swaps that are being considered now. And the land, um, that would be swapped for this is potentially, um, next to the area where ATNA may be developing a resort and gives them a bigger buffer from a current hotel. So that's probably where. They're,.

You know, it's like the, you know, and, you know, should a community, you know, parks and rec facility basically be managed by, you know, a Native corporation, or is there more interest in having a borough entity manage that? So I don't, I don't have answers to the questions, but just like lending like a little bit more, I guess, like color to the story.

Any more questions about Camp Mire shooting range, or—. I wonder there too that if the borough, with the principles in mind that we outlined in our plan here about siting of things like a shooting range, you know, like I could ask the question, why would the borough want to take on a shooting range that adjacent to private landowners within its borough rather than say like, not that we wouldn't want a shooting range down there, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be in its current location. Like we wouldn't need to, I guess I'm very on the periphery of the information here, but I mean, but why would we take that and and give up other borough land, obviously in a, in a good spot in a swap for real nice land for not an ideal location for a shooting range, I guess is what I'm saying. That would be my personal thought on that.

Andy? So Stephanie, and I don't want to get in the weeds, so this might not be for this discussion, but if there's already a Denali Sportsman's Lions Club, is there not an option for us to piggyback off of them with what we're doing here in Healy or potentially looking at doing instead of creating a whole nother organization? This is a question that we never really—. Yeah, I have no idea. I guess the question is, are the folks that are in charge of— what's it called?

Um, the Denali Sportsman Association. Are they interested in expanding their—. Right, you know, like, I don't know, you know, you have Lions Clubs and they're all over. I don't know if that's something, you know, where you could have like a Healy chapter, Cantwell chapter, instead of having to build it completely from scratch again. Is it something that we could maybe— and obviously it has nothing to do with us— but that we could help our community members who are interested connect with them and see if that is a conversation that could be had that might help support both of the groups to have more people involved, right?

And Tina, and you probably don't know offhand, did any of the members of the Denali Sportsman Club come to any of the work sessions? As far as I know, they did not. Okay, but you are— you know who members are? I don't know who the members are, but nobody came saying,. Um,.

I'm from the Denali Sportsman's Association. And I don't even know that any of them were from Cantwell. No, maybe somebody online, but you know what I mean. I just can't speak from that though. Yeah, that's really kind of good thing to pose for.

I mean, I'm looking it up. I can see who they're registered— like, I can see their leadership is listed. So, and they may be Cantwell-centric, and that's okay, you know. Maybe we need to do something more this area-centric. But if they—.

You're right, the effort to create a nonprofit that is doing kind of like focused on the same goal Right. Seeing it's like it could—. Both shooting ranges are within the borough and have semi the same expectations or rules might be helpful too. And they already, they're in good standing with their nonprofit status. Right.

So it becomes easier to get grants and things like that with some time under their belt.

Especially if this land swap's gonna happen and borough land for them and now for potentially a second. And I may have a big assumption here, but I assume a couple of them may be OTNA members as well, which may be helping with some things. But who knows?

It does feel like something to dig into.

I think we just need to figure out who, um, the contact information for them. Yeah, I can— if there's a CORC member that that wants to take that on. I think we have ideas of the key individuals who, you know, starting those conversations with. Tina, would that be helpful to get Dakota a contact and just maybe connect them and see if there's options? Yeah.

Anything else?

About Cantwell area.

Okay, we're, we're still in the Cantwell area. So the Wolf Point area on the Denali Highway. So I go to lots of meetings and Wolf Point came up, so I thought I'd tell you about the context of the meeting that it came up in. The land manager for Ahtna, he's based out of the the Glenallen area on the other side of the Denali Highway. But he expressed interest in a potential project to install a vaulted toilet at Walt Point and is engaging in discussions with the Department of Transportation about that.

And so at this time, you know, it may just be like a more supportive role that the borough plays. And I did want to say that there is a potential, you know, to have a site visit there. We had talked about that in the spring, and I think that that might be still a great thing for the Corps to consider, especially to engage with more people in the Cantwell area. And then I mentioned it to, um, the Ahtna Lands Manager. Maybe that would be a time for him to come over too and, and like kind of have like a, a joint meeting.

He could swing by the shooting range and find out. Well, and I think all this time we didn't really know who— when we as a, as Corps, um, members looked into Wolf Point improvements, we didn't really know who to connect with. So it sounds like this land manager specific person for that area has been identified. I think it's a complicated situation, right? Because there is an area that's plow, that's in the DOT right-of-way.

So where would a toilet go. You know, at Antler Ridge— it's probably TMI, but I love TMI— and the ridge, the toilet was specifically placed right outside of the DOT right-of-way on borough land so that the borough would maintain it. So I think there's like, there are still things like that, like where would a toilet be placed? Would it be— who would have the, the long-term maintenance, uh, like authority and responsibility for that? So nobody wants that.

No, maybe, but maybe. Yeah. So I think, you know, vaulted toilets are, you know, it's a big deal because no one wants to clean up the waste, right? And so I think more engagement and getting prepped for a potential grant, you know, at the end of next year is how I see things going. But I think, you know, if, you know, the Ahtna Lands Manager is and wants to directly advocate with DOT because the road is being plowed to that point and creating an issue, issue there.

I think that that's great that they're having some of those conversations and you know that may go ahead, you know, without, you know, the borough or the, you know, Cork's, I'd say like direct involvement. But there are also ways that, you know, we could support and looking at, you know, if there's a missing piece of the puzzle, how does, what does the borough have a role to play in supporting, you know, this area both for residents and people who are coming to visit. So the June cleaner, you're the July cleaner. Well, opportunities at Antler Ridge if you want to go to Cantwell Park. So really, you know, we can do it closer to home.

So I think that looking at, you know, if there's an idea of like either an April or a June meeting, you know, if there are thoughts here, you know, I can start, planning on that. So when I saw that with the— I know we talked about the site visit, but so would it be in place of a meeting? It's on the date of the meeting. We had kind of talked about, like, having a meeting in Cantwell and doing a site visit or whatever. Okay, so kind of would be a longer day situation.

Right. Okay, because I was just thinking, like, I'm like, we can't do a meeting from out there. But yeah, but we can meet there at 3 and then be back in Cantwell. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Amber, can you provide a little bit of context? And because this is before my time with the Planning Commission, like when they did site visits, you know, when say they went to go look at, you know, potential sites, you know, on Stampede and McKinley Village. What did that meeting look like?

Because I know that they were online for a portion of it and then offline. Yeah, most of them would just be publicized as a work session. There was one meeting in the McKinley Village area that they ended up wanting to have a special meeting prior to the work session. So we held the special meeting at the community center and then adjourned that meeting and then continued on with the site visit, which was not broadcast or video. So yeah, it just depends on if there's any business to be done before the site visit or if it's just a site visit.

So we could just have a Cantwell work session, that's just a site visit. Yeah,. But was the discussion— do you know, did it have a, a seasonal basis to it? The, with the, the interest in the vault toilets, is I mean, from my own experience being down there in the wintertime, it's obviously where the plowing stops there, and there's a tremendous amount of vehicles and traffic and stuff there. And then in the summer and in the fall, I assume it still gets some use, but not as much, and there's not the obvious stopping point there.

I was just curious at— if, if there was a seasonal basis to it, or like, it was there like a— is there an incident where like, are they saying like, we are really tired of this mess each winter here, or are they saying just in general they want something there, you know? Or did they—. You know, I don't want to speak for them, but I think like the impetus is probably the winter season, and then you get the melt out and you see the piles of garbage and you have the mess to deep, you know, to clean up, you know, every spring. Is, is that— that's like my gut feeling of probably what's going on. I know it does see, you know, a lot of use and like that, you know, easement in particular can be quite muddy, you know.

So I think that there's multiple issues with, you know, both Point and the 17B there. But I think, you know, the trash and the— and like Sue specifically mentioned, you know, this is a problem because the road is plowed here now and this is where everyone's stopping. And then we— so I have a feeling That's probably—. I was curious because if it was gonna— if there was a general like focusing on Wolf Point, because like, you know, then so that's the winter and spring issue typically there. And then come summertime— well, in the wintertime there's also people don't stay within the 17-wheeler easement.

I mean, snow machine traffic goes every which way. But in the summer, you know, it's not so obvious in the winter that there's damage, but in the summer the damage to the trail and to that easement is really bad. And I was just curious if there was talk about that as well. Like, is this going to go beyond that? Because 17B was one of our highlighted projects that we had said, and Wolf Point was one of those, I think, that was often brought up as being like a key one.

And so—. Well, and I was wondering if the land manager also also has connected with BLM on like that specifically, because that was kind of part of with our 17B easement, like who are we talking with? Is it beyond—. Oh, that was your question before earlier about who's the contact, right? Or is it ATNA?

Or I mean, these are not questions that we need to answer right now, but it's really great that somebody has brought up Wolf Point since we all have, or it's been identified as one of one of the problem areas that we want to clarify or help clarify for 17B easement. And I think, you know, having a meeting at the Cantwell area could broaden the discussion and be an opportunity if the CORC has a site visit for a discussion about broader issues that if people want to come, you know, anyone in Cantwell could come to come and discuss things. And then as far as like who has authority, the BLM and Ahtna did sign an agreement that gave Ahtna some discretion to manage the 17 Bs since most of the issues are trespassing on Ahtna lands, the private lands that those 17 Bs go through. I think there is a tiny bit of money that is being allocated for for that now, which is a great change because it's really hard to fix a problem if you don't have any money to put towards it. And so I think that this opportunity, like if the Corp were to host a site visit, it would be great to bring together members of the community, members of Ahtna, and have everybody there and have the discussions specifically about, you know, what priorities are, how would partnerships cork who has, you know, authority, you know, to make decisions and how can others assist.

And yeah, yeah, let me—. So is this a time right now where we decide that we're going to do— set a date for a site visit? I think it would be ideal for the cork to start thinking about it. I don't think that we would maybe need to set it until February, but like, okay, like if we decide, hey, we don't want to have it one of our work meetings, is there a work session, you know, that we want to have? Is— what would be a good time?

Is it April? Is it May? Is it June? I think in the past we've discussed, you know, having it a little bit later so it's like warmer when people would be out there. You know, there might be something to be said about having it after the road opens, the Denali Highway.

Point, um,. The whole lot. Well, because. Yeah,. We can get out to the point, but yeah, I see what you're saying.

Breakup would be certainly good, drive the point home. Yeah, suppose after though, would we miss really seeing the impact if we went too late? Yeah, yeah,. Yeah. I mean, I, I know we threw out dates for our April 21st or June 16th.

I think, um, selfishly I'm hoping that we don't choose use April 21st as a site visit because I am going to be online for that.

Good to know. Okay,. For our February agenda, that needs to be—. Yeah, why don't we— yeah, February agenda, let's, let's pick a, a date. Um, writing that down now.

And if we have a ton of snow and a brutal winter, right, like we did last year, maybe, you know, Okay. Yeah, when I had gone to that BLM meeting, um, that's. Right, yeah,. That was the whole focus. And on that grant, that was a while ago, things have changed in that administration in BLM, but, but that was the focus, is that they really did want to partner with anybody and everybody to work on those resources.

So, and Yeah, I think it'd be great for us to, to go, go down there. It'd be a great opportunity to do all those things we talked about last meeting. So. Yeah, and I mean, ideally it would be awesome if the Glenallen-based land manager was present, or could we coordinate a date that works for that person? Yeah.

Okay.

Okay, I'll just put Lukish and I will connect with him too.

Okay, anything else about— So next on my report is I had mentioned the multi-use trails grant at the last Cork meeting. After looking at it, we have a grant grant review team, myself, the mayor, and our finance director, we felt that we did not have a project that was developed enough in order to apply for the grant to meet all the parameters, like have the developed budget requirements, scope of work. And so I think that that is a focus for me, is to get something ready. Like, what is our project? You know, we have ideas, but where is the, where is the You need the item.

Yeah, that, that brings it beyond that, like, idea in your head to like, okay, well, how would we actually make this work? What is our rough budget? Do we have that budget? Say, for instance, some of the things that we've done before is like get like engineered drawings so that we have like some kind of design and then we can get a budget with that. And so, yeah, I'll be working on that.

But yeah, we felt like we're like, oh, we don't really have it in line and there's a a month noticing period for those grants too, so you had to provide public notice. So the timeline was too tight. But now that we know roughly the time of year that DOT is going to release those grants, I think we can plan for next year. So, um, yeah, one of my goals. Um, and then can community engagement opportunities— um, I know that we have this later on the agenda, so I'll just bring up a few things about, you know, as I was looking at community and outdoor recreation plan and we went over those implementation strategies at the last meeting, thinking about how some of the projects we have could fit into those.

And one of the things that from my view, like writing grant applications and looking at management of what we have is knowing the history. Of how things were created, how they're currently managed, and what the needs are. And so looking at, you know, Mountains of Fun Playground, Denali Park, and then someone brought up the cemeteries in the borough. If there are core members who are interested in reaching out to community members and really getting narratives written down that would help us be able to spit out, like some of these grant applications more easily to like write that nice feel-good, you know, community story, like say about Mountains of Fun, how everyone came together. And I'm like, I don't— it's in the cork, but I don't have a write-up, you know, on it, or I don't have a write-up on the full history of the Auto Lake Park.

Um, and then also, you know, there are nonprofits that are managing these, um, areas now, but one of the, the roles that the borough can have, like with Auto Lake Denali Park as being a project sponsor. So that means like we go after the grants, we can be that fiscally, you know, responsible partner who like, okay, let's write the invitation to bid and get it out for construction and manage that construction project like we're doing at Auto Lake. So what would really help if we think about how we're going to maintain the things that we already have is also talking to people about what the needs are. You know, as kind of like with the Auto Lake project, first it was like, okay, well, let's put in the toilet. And then someone said, Well, wait, the, the slides are cutting my kids when they use them, and we don't have any playground, like, safety surfacing on there.

So if somebody falls, they could, like, really hurt themselves. So can we improve the conditions there? So knowing that in advance would help us be able to go after grants. Um, so I, yeah, I was curious if anybody was interested potentially in working on some of those. I feel like it's totally in my wheelhouse.

I like that kind of stuff. So I'm happy to to— I don't want to take it, um, from somebody else, but like Auto Lake, I feel like I could focus on maybe gathering some tidbits, information. I didn't even know we had cemeteries. I knew we had cemetery, so I'm not the person for the cemetery. I was gonna say, I know the history.

I was on the committee for the playground when it started. Yeah,. I don't remember what year, but I could guess about when and try to find out some information. And like the cemetery, I know the history of that too. Yeah.

Um, and there's a few family members that are still around that could probably give them more information.

And Anderson does not have a cemetery, but there's a Native cemetery in Cantwell. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. And then someone said that their body's buried in a certain location of the borough, and I was like, wow, do I really want to—.

I know where that is too. I know where that So there's, you know, I do that, you know, it was at the shooting range session. I was like, well, that would be nice to know. Like, I'm not asking the clerk to inventory like where all of the barrels are. I took Theresa there with our original GIS stuff.

So, but I don't like people knowing because it's been defaced before and we have,. Yeah,. Yeah. When I was a borough clerk, I was brought a skull to bury and I knew where it was, so I took it back out there. Yeah.

So, um, And I'm not saying that anyone should maybe, like, if no one wants to take on the cemetery project, that's fine. It is in our comprehensive plan for the BUR, which is not the Cork plan. But when I was talking to a community member about this, it was like, well, you know, also there might be a need with the cemeteries as well. And that's kind of a community resource as well. So again, I don't want to force anything on anyone.

I think the highest priorities maybe relating to, you know, parks and rec or community outdoor recreation would be be, um, Auto Lake Park and Mountains of Fun. And it sounds like maybe we have 2 volunteers. Yeah, for that. Yeah. Okay.

Um, okay, well, maybe I'll, I'll be in touch. Thank you for allowing me to assign homework. And what's really funny is that the cemetery and Mountains of Fun, their whole nonprofit caretaker is Renee and Baxter Mercer. It's not a nonprofit. There's no money.

It's 2 people. And a few families that send her gas money now and then in the summer. So like, as a community, we could probably do better.

Well, I'm excited to start this and, you know, get more of the histories down, especially if we have like two key members of our community who are managing these public facilities. What does that look like, you know, in the future? And, you know, are, like we said, like when can we lend, you know, helping hands or be a project sponsor? What role might the borough play or other community members, right? Okay.

You did a great job. It's okay to work on your homework together.

Sounds great. Abigail, Patrice let me know at the last meeting that I could assign homework, and I would. So that's like our term of engagement. I'll even ask for it. I feel like we have something to do.

We're very like motivated by the—. That's for you and comment by the state. Help us keep on track. And then the next point is, you know, one of the things in the Community and Outdoor Recreation 2 plan is like holding an event each year. And so it was brought up during a staff meeting.

Oh, Would the Quirk be interested in maybe having a Winterfest event? We didn't hold the borough event last year, and I know that you would all talk about like ski trails and maybe some kind of event. I'm not saying that it has to happen, you know, like during Winterfest, but if there's energy around that time for that or some other time, you know, the Quirk thinking about would you like to hold a winter-themed event this year? I think, you know, it might be hard to hold something at Antler Ridge. This summer because of the construction, you know, and then we'll have the separated pathways.

So a winter event, it might be a good year to do that. So just bringing that up as something for you all to think about. And the next time the Corp meets is February. So if you did want to do a winter event, it might be good to do a little bit of pre-planning or make some decisions on that. And maybe we could talk about that when we get to the community outreach opportunity.

Absolutely. Play around with ideas there.

Yeah, well, that's the end. Awesome. Any other questions for her?

It's always a lot, but it's always good to hear what's going on. Yeah, I feel like every time I read, like, when you talk, or when I'm like, oh wow, there is so much going on. And you have learned so much about vaulted toilets. I bet you never dreamed. Oh yeah, I can go on and on.

I learned even more about winter maintenance and salted toilets. Well, you can add that to the, you know, the discussion at Wolf Hill Point. You know about winter maintenance. We won't be on campus without this.

All right, so technically we're now on to the, uh, mayor's report. And you guys, he's— since he's not here today, you have seen, uh, a piece in that, um I will throw it out real quick, um, with the Denali Borough elections. When I went and talked to the students, I have 4 students that are going to come and help us sit at the table for borough elections, and I feel very excited about that. We've had students before, but I've never had 4 and had a really good response. Um, the other thing I was going to comment on, um, well, he does talk about the flu clinic, and I just mentioned that it has been canceled for— or postponed postpone.

It's not going to be able to happen tomorrow as planned. So. Yeah, it will not happen tomorrow as planned. We're hoping to reschedule maybe for even as soon as next week, but I'm not sure.

Awesome. And then I read in here somewhere— oh, with the, um, Denali Borough School District— how, um, they're considering housing there. And it's so funny because when I first became a student here, there was housing there. Oh wow. Oh yeah, we've had housing there.

Where was it located at? Um, do you know where the, um, Kids in Motion Atco trailer is? And then there's a path kind of down that way. Um, you know what I'm talking about, Abigail? Mhm.

Yeah, the out there, it was right there. There was 3 different trailer houses back in there. The principal and his family lived in one of them because I babysat first kid, so I remember. Is that where there's those clearings back there that are starting to grow in? Mhm.

Okay. Yeah, that's where they were. Okay, maybe that's where the potential— and the trailers are gone. Yeah, they were taken out, uh, the '80s sometime. Yeah, you can clearly see that there's a space that's—.

What was there? Yeah, yeah. So I just thought that was interesting, like, oh, we're going back to something.

I mean, it was obvious that they probably needed to be taken down for a reason, you know. So, all right, any other thoughts on the mayor's report as you read through?

No. Okay, awesome. Okay, so, um, I will speak to this real quick. Um, I was able to— I was invited to Mr. Um, Frisbee's government class at Tri-Valley. Um, I did reach out to the students and prin— or the teachers and principals and, um, the counselor at all of the schools.

The only one that I heard back with was from Mr. Frisbee, and I was able to go to his government class. Class, and it's made up of 11th and 12th graders. And, um, so I was able to talk to those high school kids, and I did bring up elections, and that's how I got recruited for new election judges to help out. Um, that's pretty exciting because it's just knowing the process of voting makes people want to be more involved in the voting process. So that's exciting.

And then the other thing I talked about was the court, and I left them a copy of our plan, and they had really great engaged questions. And I had more things to think about because of some of their questions that they were asking. And, um, 2 people, um, said that they would be interested, and I invited them both online or here. I know it conflicts with, uh, volleyball practice a little bit. Um, I really do think that one of the ways that we can keep the students involved is going to be, um, project-specific, like the bike path.

And, um, maybe even like an Antler Ridge— maybe there's a PE class that could come and hike, or I don't know, we could think of things. Um, the Auto Lake situation, like where the kids are excited in, um, recreating in a specific way. I think that would be really great. The Abigail Sawyer ski trail, a Nordic ski trail, exactly. Yeah, all of that stuff.

Um, so yeah, I felt very— I felt like I did my community outreach as I promised for homework last time. Good job. To a. Good.

Success. So gold star. Thank you for joining us. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I know this is a lot of information for you, and if you need to leave because you have to drive home, that's okay.

All right, um, I'll just go ahead on to the, um, Healy area shooting range work session. We had 4 people here, um, in person. Nicole and I were both here. We had 4 people. We had some people online as well.

The group has had some traction in people wanting to get a sportsman's club together, but it had— they haven't actually filed anything with the state yet.

One of the leaders of that was unable to be there at the meeting. So, but also I felt like my mission was accomplished because if we set a date it'll keep nudging it, you know, encouraging it, coaxing it forward. During the meeting, oh, I got 2 new people added to my list of emails, and I emailed them all out reminding them about that. So I feel like I have a good contact list of interested folks. Not that it won't— they won't be seeing it publicly in the regular way the borough announces, but an extra email reminder.

Part of that discussion came back to where should it be? And it's very interesting to me that we got so many public comments because I believe the comment went like this, hey, is there anything out this Stampede Way where there's some borough land out there? Is there anywhere out there that might be of good use? And so we looked at what borough land was there, but we did the same thing, like, what's up the Healy River? What about around Otto Lake?

What about north? The, you know, the transfer site area, the borough land is popular, but also, like, what about a little bit farther north? So it was, it's very intriguing to me, and I think it also, it highlights that the not in my backyard is going to be Um, you know, except for the Nordic ski trails where every time we posted at Otto Lake last year, hey, it just got groomed again, we had zero negative comments, which was just absolutely phenomenal. But I think as this process goes, whether, um, you know, whether it becomes a Healy Sportsman Club or the Denali Sportsman Club expands to a Healy branch or something I think we're going to have a lot of that kind of thing. And again, I am kind of blown away by the comments.

Somebody must have heard something differently and then shared the borough's going to do this, they're going to use that, you know, and that wasn't it at all. Like, what possibilities were out there was more of the discussion, not like, that's the perfect spot, you know. Yeah, when I saw the meeting packet and there were public comments, I'm like, oh my gosh, we got public comments. Yeah, I opened them up like like, wait, I hadn't heard that because I wasn't at the work session. I don't even remember discussing Stampede even on the maps on that at our first map, um, or our first work session.

So. At the one, the other one we did, um, but again, it was like, what borough land do we have out there? It wasn't even an indication. I mean, also, I mean, it's a work session,. And.

Obviously Somebody thought they heard that it— that that was more of an excited, you know, actual viable place for us, right? And then shared it with their neighbors. So I think that we will probably, no matter where we pick, we're going to get some of this same kind of traction from residents. And honestly, one of the things that was commented was that the Cantwell shooting range is pretty close to residents. Yeah,.

So I mean,. I think that's going to be the case. I mean, even I don't think you could pick an area, um, that has people living in it right now that would be in favor of having the shooting range in their backyard, including the shooters in the community. You know, nobody wants it there. So, um, and, and that's the thing, we're, you know, we're gonna— that'll be the thing that needs— and, and I think that's what we pointed out in our plan, that, that was one of the things that we needed to do in addition to the safety aspect of it was encumbering the public or private landowners with whatever projects, you know, that we push forward.

But, yeah, that's. Another thing that really came out. Nicole maybe can speak to this too, is this one was having it where people's eyes are on it, like not so back off, you know, first of all, the plowing and the accessibility, but also people are driving by or seeing it fairly regularly. Regularly, there's going to be some more eyes on it, which of course, like the Stampede 4 Mile gravel pit, using that as an example, would not have those eyes on it that the group kind of thought that would be important to have. It'd be pretty hard to do that.

I mean, even at the current spot, which is barely off the road, it's still—. I never notice it when I drive by. It's, it's, I don't— it's still hidden and it's a disaster there, you know. I think to have sightlines, say, to the road off-road. Um, obviously don't think you want that in a— in your shooting pit design, you know, like—.

I think they just meant like not so far off-road that nobody can just swing in there. Not in the way where people can get involved in bad behaviors. I. Get that, but I think it's going to be— I think probably the more effective deterrent there is going to be the club itself, who's ever managing it, maintaining a presence there, whether it's, you know, people making on-site visits, you know, routinely, um, maybe advocating for good behavior when people are there, educating people when they're there using it. Because I mean, frankly, trying to find a place that's close to the road that isn't surrounded by, by private property is going to be be a— that's a fine needle to thread, you know, be a tough one.

Do we know, um, or have we— it seems like we have probably haven't heard a whole lot from anybody from Cantwell, from the shooting range. I know it's close to residents, it's close to the road. Do they have problems there? I mean, because we heard from Anderson and people seem like everybody is okay with the Anderson. One.

I haven't heard a ton of— I haven't heard any negative. It was Chip Barker feeling like it was kind of close to the, to the residents. You know,. Chip said that he had heard from some of the folks in that area that maybe it was a little bit off-putting, but we haven't heard from any of them specifically. Right.

Cantwell, you're talking. About, which again is close to the road, close to residents, but also I just didn't know if there were, um, you know, problem behaviors or problem—. I had talked to, uh, one resident down there about— had approached me about it, and Um, and what we had determined there was one of the differences is that because they have the Sportsman's Club, you know, when the shooting continued, I mean, he wasn't happy with it, that it was as close to their house as it was. It was, it was, you know, disrupting to their lifestyle. But he said at least there, there were hours posted and that when, if things went beyond that, there was, he could call the Sportsman's Club.

He had a contact and that person's his duty was to go down there and remedy the situation, right, in an official capacity. And so I think there's something to be learned from that, that, you know, because like, whereas like now there's really nothing, there's no—. And I don't know where in the borough that's close to Healy that we could have a shooting range that won't be heard by somebody. There's even in our first meeting with people shooting in Dry Creek, like, he should— he, the one man said that he shoots in the air just to let him know that people live there because it's so close to his house. I can hear it from my house too, the direct shooters.

Yeah,. You know, and they're just shooting in the creek. Yeah,. It's, um, did you mention at the last meeting, uh, something about that, um, the railroad is open to discussing, uh, leases for other things including the shooting range? I read that somebody—.

Yeah, yeah, so I, I I did have a meeting with the real estate department of Alaska Railroad and talked about multiple avenues that the borough is working on with community development, like our goals and economic development, housing, and then also the, the CORC projects. And so it wasn't a no. It was, I said, well, what about a shooting range? But, you know, it was like kind of the common sense things like we don't want people shooting across the tracks or like, you know, near the tracks. We don't want basically nobody near the tracks, not shooting near the tracks.

So I think it's not a no, it's a like, well, what's your proposed area? What's the evaluation? Are there any other current leases that this would affect? You know, and it would be a different situation, you know, if there were infrastructure put in, that's like a different process. But there's a process for it.

So it's, it's not a hard no. Yeah. Okay. Because I think that's That, um, I mean, just from my personal thoughts, I'm thinking about places like the railroad owns considerable amount of land, like we've seen, you know, this area where like put the ski trail here and then further to the south. And those are large blocks where there aren't private residences around.

So the, so the white whale might be in someplace like that if we can find a suitable— it would, it's definitely worth looking into. I, I never thought that that would be an option, but I really do think it would be a good one to, to consider on some of those, those lands. Um,. And I'm envisioning this whole process being the Sportsman Club, whatever that looks like, comes to the borough, say, or to the Cork, or whatever, saying— I, I kind of feel like at this point we're just a conduit to helping this come, you know. Um, and saying, these are our top two choices, and this is one and then we can explore those avenues.

I think, I don't know, I mean, I think like we, you know, we've had the benchmarks that we feel like we wanted in that project detailed in here, and we need to be able to, I think, stay with them to convey that, you know. Stay with the—. To, to a nonprofit. Group? Yes.

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, I think so, but I don't think like I don't think me having— we're not making a decision on. The. Site. No, no, right, right.

Because we as a CORC member, we're not going to be— I mean, we can be members of a club or whatever, the group, but like, we're not going to be the ones saying, um, nope, you shouldn't do it there. We're going to be like, do you think this is the best? And then you can be like, oh yeah, well, I'm not sure that is. Oh, I don't think that's a possibility because it's railroad and they won't let us do whatever, you know, all those things. I think in the meeting that Chip did say, yeah, that across from the cemetery, like in that area where there's railroad land, across to the.

South of the cemetery,. The south of the cemetery, yeah, he thinks there's land in there, but that there's a hotel going in. He's what— well, he said there's higher likelihood with the hotel going in for Premier on the other side that there may be something coming on maths, I think. So. The, um,.

So that would be curious too. And of course I don't have the magic crystal balls to look at any of this. So,. Well, so I guess where I'm getting— coming this from is like talking about helping provide resources and utilize, um, the skills that the members bring to the board here about, um, so for instance, um We had talked a while back, or I had talked to the mayor about— I don't know if we talked about it in the meeting here actually or not— about like using— he was going to check in to see like with David Bechtel from National Park Service. Yeah.

You know, and modeling. And so like that we could try to find terrain traps that would, you know, where distance alone is far from the thing that dictates, you know, how much noise like shooting travers and stuff like that. We. Did. Yeah, we did agree that.

Setup. And I know that Stephanie said that there has been some communication with them. So, but again, we need to get back to the— like, until he can do a site visit on a site that actually is plausible, you know what I mean? Like,. What I— when talking to Chris, I thought we had the impression that he had done some mapping of the landscapes or something.

Yeah, of the area in general. And we could— we can— I think we can fine-tune it with specific inputs to in a given site, but that on a broader map you could overlay areas that would say, like, would say this is a spot that dampens sound regardless, you know. Yeah,. I don't, I don't know about that. Okay.

You know, I think that, you know, regardless if it's someone, you know, from the Park Service or the, you know, if the borough could, you know, contract out services like that to do an analysis, Um, looking at, like you were saying, the court plan, Al, um, that, you know, site-specific recommendations, identifying several locations, conducting feasibility studies, kind of similar to what they did with the Denali area airport study, right? Like, there's a couple different locations, like, what is the best, um, potential location, um, and then collaborating with a long-term, you know, like, with a local shooting, you know, club for long-term management. One of the things that I do have on the agenda later is is I was like, oh, I got a lot of stuff in my brain, and you all have lots of stress in your brain. Like, how do we communicate to each other, and how do we develop a project past that it's an idea to like making it into a reality? So I whipped up this prototype project development worksheet, and I think that that would— could maybe be a good way to frame the conversation.

And I specifically, um, created I did this because I felt like we were at the stage with the Corp, with both the potential Nordic ski trail project and the Healy area shooting project, that we might want to have something to center our discussions around. This is very prototype. The mayor was like, wow, you got a lot of questions in here. And I was like, yeah, I have a lot of questions. So right now it's just a prototype.

There's a lot of questions in there because like a shooting range project is very different than a Nordic ski trail project. You're covering your bases. Yeah, just covering up. Yeah, right. By like, okay, well, what are all the questions to get people to think about?

What are some things? So like one of the things included in here was like, what are the considerations that we might want to take into effect? So I think, you know, having this and using this and, or something like this, you know, as we work through the core works through projects and taking things from the plan and turning them into reality. At least will be helpful for me because I know we can talk about it, but having it written down, going back to it, um, well, I think be useful, um, for ourselves. And then also, like you're saying, Tina, providing support, you know, uh, the borough doesn't have to manage a shooting range.

That's great. But like, can we be that project sponsor that helps like figure out, okay, what are the concrete steps that, that we can do to support a local entity or a nonprofit? Them to take those steps. So just to say like, oh, I, I thought about that, maybe, maybe this would be useful. Cool.

And Tina, did you at— in the work session think, uh, or talk about planning another work session? Um, as you were. Saying, momentum, you know,. I kind of feel like I put the ball in their court. Um, this Denali Sportsman is a brand new idea, so I think think that that maybe would be something that we need to pursue next.

But, um,. That's a homework assignment. Yeah, I already have written that. Yeah, I've got to work so far.

Um, but, um, yeah, like if they— if we connected them and then— and Cantwell says no, we're not interested, then the other one applying, you know, like that's— yeah, that's for steps. Also, I expect that when they have their meeting that I will be let know, then I can let the clerk know that, hey, this club, you know, if you're interested in the Sportsman's Club. Well, it feels like we might want to have— if nothing has moved forward by, especially by the spring, we might have want to have a work session on there, especially if the gravel pit is for closing. Yeah, yeah. So I guess again, for our February meeting, let's have some discussion about that, gun range on that, um, even if it's just to plan another work session or just an update of where we're at with this.

Again, I feel good that we had the meet— the work session in October. Yeah,. Um,. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, momentum, new faces.

Yeah, yeah. And I, I really, really meant to be at that meeting, but it's understood. Yes. Yeah, we can't do it all. Al, back to your comment, just really quickly too.

Some— somebody who's familiar with the Anderson shooting range said basically the same thing, like what you heard from the Cantwell, is that there's residents close by, and once they're hearing shooting after a certain hour, they call a neighbor, what's going on? If none of them are aware of it, they go down together and they address the issue. And so that's really going to be key to being able to make it, because like we've identified almost every looks, it cannot be with it. People are going to kill no matter what. And so just having those eyes and ears on there, somebody.

Who can go and address the issue, I think, biggest concern. Yeah. And, um, Katie, when we were at the Strawberry Festival, there were a few people talking about it, but they were talking about something about the Anderson, um, shooting range and how soundproof it is, right? What was it? I don't know if I remember the details on that.

That? I don't know if someone mentioned that. I don't know. I do know they said it was embanked and stuff like that, which helped some of it. Yeah, right.

You see where it is in Anderson? I don't—. No, I never like drive past it or see the location, so I don't know how close in proximity it is. Yeah, I'm curious if, if that really is the case. And, and then,.

Well, and Nicole just said she definitely has heard from an Anderson community member who said somebody's familiar with it,. That says it is better. Well, no, no, that they still Yeah, yeah, the residents definitely still there, they said. But they have a good handle or method to control whoever is using it. Yeah, it seems so.

Another option, there are a couple of shooting ranges in the Fairbanks North Shore Borough that were brought up. There is one off South Cushman. If you just Google like Cushman area, like Fairbanks shooting range, there was a grant that was applied for to create that. There is embankment. I think that there's even a few pictures there.

Care of it. So, you know, that is, you know, if anyone's ever in Fairbanks, I don't know if it's open. Well, you said the magic word, grant. Grant. So, you know, that, and then also in the grant description, there are standards by the NRA or National Rifle Association about shooting ranges.

So I think that there are, you know, just like, say, with the separated power, the bike paths, that there's like design standards. There are design Yeah, that would help like think about, okay, so what, what is the consideration? How long should the range be? Like what, you know, what are those considerations? How does that keep sound down?

You know, the Troopers saying if you make your range a certain distance, you're going to get high-powered guns. If you don't want high-powered guns, make your range shorter, you know. So there are certain like design things and certain safety things. Um, so I think that, you know, we just haven't looked at those yet, but there's best practices. Well,.

And I mean, Tina's right, like it's not really on us to be moving this forward too much, but also if we can be supportive in any way and like bring up the grant that, or the protocol that is needed for the shooting range based on what other places have done, then I think this is all information that helps propel it. No word. But I just Oh, go ahead, Katie. I. Was gonna say just to go back a little bit to the noise disturbance in Anderson and Cantwell, and I think just something that we should like be prepared for that is that looking at those places as examples of how people respond to the noise or how they're handling it is great and could give us some like ideas on how to handle it.

I just think that we should also expect that people will respond differently to something new that is being put in place than something that has existed for a long time. So those those people might be comfortable calling up their neighbors and might just have accepted that that is part of where they live. But as evidenced by a lot of the public comments we got, if we're putting in something new, people may not just be willing to approach it the same way that people in Anderson have been. And it might be that we don't have any good options where it's completely out of earshot, but just something that I think we should expect that they won't necessarily take to it the same way that someone in Anderson might be. Nobody likes change.

Yes. Okay. Even though everybody agrees it's not working and we're not doing a good job taking care of it right now. Yeah, we need change, but we don't— yeah. So I have a question on our role and Cork's role in this.

Um, it does seem a little strange that we would basically just say, okay, group, go, go create, bring this project to fruition. I mean, like, I feel like like whether it's the shooting range or, you know, separated bike path or, or the ski trail. Like, we're, um,. Well, you could still be part of the nonprofit. Like, this is kind of part of what we've talked about, subcommittees.

And like, for some of these projects to happen, it's not happening in our bimonthly meeting, right? Right, right. So I mean, like, you, you know So we as Cork members can still be part of the, not, you know, like if there's a sportsman club, you know, we can. Yeah. Well, so like, so say you're building a new trail and somebody wants to put a bike trail wherever on out here and we say, great, form a bike club and build a bike trail or come up with a plan to build a bike trail.

It seems a little crazy that we wouldn't be fairly closely involved in it. You know, like we talked about, you know, like, you know, tread design, like making sure like they meet all these, uh, that there are standards, you know. And like, because like if you would have a group that's, um, let's say they're, you know, like the bike thing and aren't familiar with those standards, like it seems like a lot of work would happen. You'd bring up all the land and, and Ideally, we would have a look at it and give comment, but it's like to do that after all the work, for us to comment after all the work is done, like if we haven't outlined those concerns, like the things that we said make— we try to come up with projects and we wanted them to be done in a certain way. That's what this whole plan is about, that we have these projects but that they're done the right way.

And so that if we don't we don't give community members the, you know, the standards by which we had set out in this plan, how do we expect them to meet those when they come back? But I think that the shooting range is a perfect example of how this is playing out. You know, Tina and Nicole are both very, very heavily involved. You've been too. And I think propelling forward with the bits and pieces of information, the maps of the land options, But ultimately, it can't fall on them or you to make this all happen.

It needs to— again, to. Get. Grants, we need it to be a. Nonprofit, to sign leases, or to do land swaps or whatever to get the property. So, I mean, are you guys in this case with the shooting range, you guys are tied to this one then?

I mean,. Like, so far, I mean, it's still in the happen—. Yeah, I would like to see it through. Yeah, okay, so that, that's what I'm getting at. So like, you'll have— you can be there as a work representative in some fashion for the determination?

I mean, the two meetings that we've had, I felt like that I've taken the lead on them. Okay. And, um,. But those have been court meetings specifically,. Right?

Well, only because, once again, because that's our role in trying to move this momentum forward, is let's set up this meeting, gather the people who are interested. Anderson,. Get all the information out there, hope that somebody takes the reins. But so far, you know, it's still kind of falling on Cork a little bit to keep it going.

I think another consideration to look at is, um, you know, a project may be different if a nonprofit can pull it off all on its itself on land that's not associated with the borough and get grants all by itself. What role does the borough play in supporting these projects? And some of that is administrative, that would fall on myself and, and staff, and other roles like would be with the Cork. So for instance, you know, the Planning Commission might want to know if the Cork, for example, If we were to have the Cantwell shooting range on borough land, does the Cork recommend best practices if the borough were to take that lease over? Similar, like if there were to be a shooting range on borough lands, then what does that lease process look like?

Does the Cork have recommendations for things that we should put in a lease with a borough to a shooting club. So I think it, it may depend on eventually like what site could be chosen. Could the borough play a role if, you know, a site is on railroad land of securing the master lease and then subleasing similar to what we have with, with the Lions Club, or if it's a multimillion dollar grant and a nonprofit with a volunteer board can't manage that, is the borough the fiscal sponsor sponsor for the grant, and then, you know, it's, if it's especially, let's say, if it's on borough land, and then retains the ownership of the assets, and then the nonprofit maintains or manages, you know, the asset. So I think it, it just, it could be a, like, the great answer of it just depends, um, you know, in these situations. But I think that you both have, you know, points that are, that are valid of, you you know, there has to be a nonprofit stepping forward and really leading this.

It has to be community-led by the user groups. At the same time, if the borough is going to be involved in some way, how can the CORC lend the expertise and the, the conversations that we've already had and the energy that you've already put into the plan? Right. Yeah. And not to diminish what you're saying, because I totally see your point.

If somebody like came up like out of nowhere and was just like, oh, I'm building seeing a bike trail somewhere, Sunranna, let's just say, and we had no idea, and they're just going off and doing it. I'm like, oh wait, should, you know, can we, can we help? Can we be involved? Can, you know,. I, I see your point there,.

But I don't think that's the way things are playing out so far. Yeah, and I can see right where you're coming from, Al, because we have the Antler Creek or Antler Ridge Trail, and that's like fully, it seems like, bro-led, done, right, start to finish. And even with this, um, winter, you know, trails that you're doing, you're stepping in as a Quirk member working with, you know, the borough to get that really moved. And so I can see where it can like be hard. And then here we are, we're like, here, Groove, you figure it out, you know.

Yeah. And I feel like ultimately, most likely, the borough is going to end up being involved somewhere in sponsoring, supporting, whatever, whether it's through a land swap, through its own land, or whatever. I imagine that the borough is going to be lending some legitimacy, right, to that in order to, to get something like a land swap or a land purchase or a lease to go through. And yeah, so thank you. You said it much better than I did, but that's what I was—.

All right, well, I think that's about all on the work session. Yeah,. Sounds good. So let's, um, go to website and.

I will say I am not the subject matter on this. Um, Amber is the subject matter. To our, our clerk on this.

So I printed out, it's in the packet, and then I also made copies, um, you can have. And it's, um, oh, is that what that was? Yeah. Okay, it's a It's a report and these are just like the raw numbers. And so the first, the first collection is just page views by section and it's listed and then the one that I usually tend to look at is the unique IP addresses.

So a page view is just how many times that page is viewed and it doesn't matter or if it's unique. For instance, I almost always have the URL website up onto some page on my screen all day. I have a tab open all day long, and however many times that refreshes, whatever page I'm on, even if I haven't actually looked at it, every time it refreshes, it's going to count as another view. It's just me. It's just an open tab.

I'm not actually reading anything. It just is there. So the unique ones only count— would only count me for that day, the one time on that page. So that, that feels like I'm the one authentic sort of the views. And so yeah, you can just see what, what pages were viewed in the last month, how many times And what— not sure if that's helpful or interesting for analytics.

I don't know if it's something that you want to kind of track and see if we get more traction, or if we change something, if we get more views. So this is just a one-month snapshot, a 30-day snapshot as of this afternoon. And not that we necessarily need to do this, but is there a way for us to go in and look like the past 90 days or whatever and see if there has been a jump in the last. 30 Days, but you can adjust it to whatever time. So we could look at over like a 3-month period.

Is it going up or is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just at a glance, like it, it kind of is neat to see that. Well, at least that we're getting that page is getting clicked on the red, the recreation one. In it.

Yeah. Yeah, it's also kind of, I guess, annoying. I would say if you look towards the end of the list, there's a page that reads just dot, dot, dot. That's a page I literally can't find. I don't know where that exists.

And yet it got—. It has a lot of 28. It got 28 unique IP visits. And I'm like, I don't know. I've looked for that page, and I don't even know where it exists.

That is really funny. There's— it's not a per— I would say analytics is not perfect, but it, it, it could establish some things if we wanted to use them for our own tracking.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. I think it just kind of— I was— I think I was the one that was like, Grace, I just wanted to see, do we, you know, is it the work that you all put in, especially Is it being viewed? It's nice to see that people are finding it. Right. You definitely have to think about like where to nest it.

And it's getting slightly more views than some of the other Quark pages. So it's definitely, yeah, getting found a reasonable amount, even for being like a newer page that people might not have had previous awareness of. You mentioned earlier like the contract to update the website and things like that. That, will that open, like once that happens, will there be additional like features or functionality that we might want to like reevaluate that page if we have new options for how to highlight information? I know last time there were kind of like pretty, two pretty strict templates that we had to, that we had to stick to.

But I wonder if like after that migration that it might be worth going back and looking at the page. Yeah. You know what the options are. So we're building a whole new website. It's going to be a whole new website.

We signed a contract with with a whole new website host. And right now I'm receiving some preliminary training on that. Then they're going to migrate all of our information into the design, and, um, and then, then that's when I'll get the real training for how to work the new website. But it's an entirely new website, and it's very exciting and has a lot more functionalities than I didn't realize what a dinosaur we had. It's still better than the original one we had, but, but every great session so far, I've had 4 of them and everyone I'm like, oh, I didn't even know that was an option.

That's fantastic. So it's great. It's going to take some time and they haven't started migrating yet. So it's pretty preliminary. But yeah, I think, I think there's going to be a lot more we can do.

And I do think that these analytics itself is going to help us us potentially build it better.

Like Stephanie mentioned, the goal is 3 clicks or less is the goal to get to the information we want to find. And as any of you have been on our website, that's not our current design. So I'm not sure how we're going to get there because my creative mind can't quite figure out how to do that, how to arrange it that way. Way, but, um, I'm excited to see what comes of it. That's exciting.

Yeah,. Yeah, it is. So maybe, um, we revisit this after the website— for the new website is on, and we explore a little bit then, and then see what we need to add or do differently then. So, so that probably won't even be February, realistically. I will say there, there are some different components that we've purchased to go along with our new website, one of them being a new meeting manager page.

Currently, the meeting is— the meeting page on our current website is a different component attached to our current website. Anyways, it's going to be a whole new one, and that one might— will probably launch before Perfect. So, um, the meeting page might look different sooner than the rest of the website. And that— is that like borough calendar where the meetings are listed, or—. No, the calendar would still be the same.

It's just the, the borough meetings page that we have, um, currently where you, where you find that your online, um, packet. Amber, once this is all migrated over, is it going to be you who's managing it again? If we were to meet with you about the— okay, so we would meet with you again, not with a—. Yeah, our, uh, yes, the answer is yes. The hope is that, um, right now it's so clunky and challenging.

I'm, I'm basically the only one that does it. There's a couple of other people. The hope is that this is going to be user-friendly enough that everybody, um, can have some access and person can work on at least some of the pages on their own without needing me to go. Oh. Yeah,.

But it wouldn't be managed out of office, it would be in here. So.

Awesome. Anything else on that, guys? Any other questions? All right, let's go then to unfinished business, the Antler Ridge signage. Back to Stephanie.

Yeah, so I included a lot of attachments here and a lot of printouts because I think we were talking about looking at different, different signs and like what was up and trying to make sure all of our information is the same. So we have the Dall Sheep signs that Izzy Brown made as part of her Eagle Scout project that are currently on site. Our, yeah, the two that Tina has right now with the Dall Sheep pictures on them. Them. And then we have another, um, panel, which is the larger panel, um, that is called the OP, or the Orientation Panel.

And that, um, has the text on it. I did, um, there are some changes that I've requested to, to that, um, so I did print out, uh, like a— for people who are interested, like what, what I thought, like there were some misspellings of things. So we're still kind of going through the final around of that. And then in it, so the, the one that is the orientation panel, that will be more permanent and like printed on something similar to what Izzy Brown's signs or the doll-shaped signs are printed on now. So more static.

And then what we're looking at tonight is the overview of what the bulletin board will be. That'll be something that we can update as the borough, but I wanted to have like a discussion about what should we put on there, you know, first. So we looked, there were like a bunch of Leave No Trace rules. So I went through, I pared that down at the last meeting, and then we started having a discussion about park rules, which was pretty involved. So really the key thing that I'm looking for feedback on tonight, in addition to all the other attachments, those are kind of like the supporting attachments, is that it's this document that says 10/15/2026 draft Antler Ridge bulletin board text.

And so that is the Leave No Trace text that I've pared down. And then on the, on the first 2 pages and then the last page, I have draft language for callout boxes. And so this is really the text I think, like, based, like, you know, with Katie's recommendation before that we have like little icons and things that go with them to make it easier. But really, I try to distill down like what park rules do we want to say with the feedback of the committee saying, well, some, maybe we don't have to talk about everything, right? And picking a few select things, which State Parks did recommend, like what are your top key items or concerns at this site?

What do you want to prevent? And calling those out. So I have a park rules, a pets, and like a burrow contact is kind of the call-out boxes in addition to the Leave No Trace messages. Messaging that might be on the bulletin board. Again, this is the one that we can update more frequently.

I could see this paring it down more, but really, I guess, like, I'm looking for, you know, feedback on those park rules and that, you know, we were kind of leaving it there and letting people sit on that. So maybe like a good starting point would be to go to the last page. Also, as reference, I do have a printout of the Denali Borough Code and what our code says. Yeah. And then I don't know if it's worthwhile to read that first.

Maybe we can just go, but we have that. There's a certain section of code that, that says what people can and can't do on borough lands right now. So maybe just starting on the last page, but Tina, yeah, what are your thoughts? I was going to just say that after thinking about really great discussion, also was kind of brand new to us and kind of thought of it. So I felt like a lot a lot of it was just us thinking out loud together instead of actually mulling it over.

Um, but it's kind of hard to have really strict rules for a place that we have no way of enforcing and whatever, you know, like, um, but I think having no rules is not a good idea either. So I do appreciate the time that you've taken to pare down some really good thinking, like having, you know, um, dogs are allowed, but please keep them under control. Yeah. Yeah, you know, be good to wildlife. Yeah, you know, like more like this is like the education rule making.

Like this is what we'd like to be a good human, do this, you know, on this trail. It's kind of how. Yeah, so good job. I appreciate your work. Definitely.

I was going to say I did have a few other like just minor edits that I thought about after. And so then I was thinking Does it, instead of me like calling them out now, does it— is it more helpful to send you the edits again? Because we have until, say, August 17th. Well, yeah. Yeah, we do have time.

I think if there's anything substantial, like discussing it in the group, if it's like a minor edit, like, I think this wording would be better. You know, I think that that's for me, that's, that's fine, whatever. Yeah, we certainly, I mean, obviously, like you said, we'll, we'll talk as a group. I just, I was just thinking like, as what Tina said, like it was new to us and, and once I digested some of it too, I came up with a few more things that I thought would be worthwhile or to just either discuss as a group or to have you think about or present to the group. One other thing I was going to say when I was— when you sent the panels, I realized with the— obviously I know these are set in stone, but it's a little confusing on this panel where it says please leave your dog behind, but then it says dogs must be under your control at all times.

And yeah, the panel is there. I understand. Do we want to replace it? Oh yeah, it's like, so I think that there are, you know, whether we'll. Make us replace it someday.

Well, yeah, make clear when that happens. And again, this is not— this panel is so informative. I don't think, like, as long as we are clear in our rules or best practices, as we kind of thought we'd call it, that about the dog uses or the dogs being permitted. Yeah, because it is an area that Dall Sheep are, you know, they're hoping that people don't allow their dogs to approach them or their drones or whatever, you know, those kind of things. Yeah, but yeah.

Yes. So I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like you said, totally fine. So yeah, you said we were going to start on on this page, right? Yeah, let's start there.

That's a— is a— because I think that that had the most discussion. Um, and then I see it as like the park rules is kind of like the more the structure, like don't do this, you know. And then we have like the pets call it— but you're like, it's the more friendlier, like pick up your dog poop, you know, really pet waste is what we're saying. I want to say dog poop. I'm okay with that.

I went with the waste. Yeah, so let's start with the park rules. We did— did— are we going to call them park rules or are we going to call it best practices?

I'm fine with either way. I feel like at least some of these, if not all of them, are backed up.

Backed up by the burial code for this particular section, as opposed to like the Leave No Trace, which are best practices. But most of these are backed up by the burial code. So I would support sticking with park rules. Sounds good.

I should know this, but why are we calling it park? Is it park and rec? That's a really good question. That's a good question. Yeah.

Trail rules. You know, maybe that's a—. Right. Yeah. Because that's what State Park just put, and they said park rules, and they, they're state parks, right?

You know, so, but we actually haven't created like a borough park here. Right. That's why I was like, are we? Let's, let's change it. Good.

See, this is why, this is why this is a meeting of the minds here. I think trail rules. Does that sound? Yeah. And With the callout box, I know we don't want to get too wordy, but with the no motorized use, we still— do we want to like repeat what we said, which motorized includes dirt bikes, ATVs, and snow machines, but on the— that's on the Alpine, whereas on the lower loop, like motorized, you can have wheelchairs.

Um, I guess I'll start off in saying, but like, the, um, my principle with these has been less is more, and that the more we put, the less likely that people are able to— are going to read it and they're going to pay attention, um, and they're going to get fatigued. So that's, that's kind of the approach that I've taken, is to not be, um, like almost like it's almost prescriptive to you. Like, what if we leave something off and there's a new thing that gets invented too, is, is to kind of leave it simple. So that's how I wrote this. It's not necessarily how it needs to stay.

I think it's going to be more effective because I think people simply don't like to read. And that's just, you know, from years of experience trying to get people to read things and programming. 1, Maybe 2 sentences is what you're going to get out of most people. So maybe, and also the order of these, I tried to put in that, but happy to open that up for discussion. I feel pretty comfortable with no motorized use, knowing that somebody with a motorized wheelchair is not going to think that that means them.

They're going to go on the lower trail as best they can. That's what I was going to say. I think people with motorized wheelchairs, same with like people with service animals, they know their rights and they know that the other two rules don't apply to them, right? Generally speaking. Right.

Yeah. Again, this is good meeting of the minds, right?

Mm-hmm. I like overall that I feel like the length of the park rules section is very like manageable and it doesn't feel or look like a wall of text. So I think that is inviting for people to read and it all feels very relevant to like our specific concerns and are like very applicable to this trail. I like that a lot.

Now I love it. So we have the word dogs, then pets, then pets. Mm-hmm. Our cats love to be walked on the trail. If you look at the code, I'm like, I I think that, like, and people do take their cats.

Like, I have a cat. I'm not trying to be picky. It's just a little bit inconsistent there, because if we're gonna say pets, then I think maybe, but I don't know if it is only dogs. You know, this is why I did this. Now I'm remembering why I said dogs is because on the— and this is the, like, it's a little bit squishy.

There we go. I like the word squishy, but on the sheep signs right now they're saying no pack animals. So I think that if pets are considered, like, if you could take your alpaca or your horse on this, like, you know, the idea of transmitting diseases via pack animals or hooved animals, I think is a little bit more concerning. I'm thinking about, like, What are, what are people mostly gonna take? Like on this kind of like Katie's thing, like if a person is gonna take their cat, they know that their, their cat's allowed even if it says dogs.

Like I guess is what I was going for. Like what is the, the animal that's most common and what are we worried about? We really don't want pack animals on the trail or something that might transmit anything to wildlife, I guess is, I can't remember. Like I don't have it in front of me. Is it say like alpaca?

There's something on the sheep sign about the wording. I can't remember. Yeah, the hooved animals. Okay, maybe that's why I did dogs. The use of domestic goats or sheep.

No llamas, alpacas, and other related pack animals are prohibited from using the Antler Creek Trail. If you have domestic livestock at home, please thoroughly clean your footwear before ascending the trail.

That's why I chose dogs. Yeah, no chickenpox. But you're probably right where we are most worried about dogs off leash.

And I guess that makes the call-out box, you know, like if they read all the things, then Feels like, I don't know, it feels like using the word dog makes more sense for what we're trying to prevent. Should we change? Like, is it the suggestion control dogs at all times or leave them at home? Or. What do you know?

Not necessarily. I was just noticing that you were specifically calling out dogs and then you were calling out pets and yeah, but I think that's fine because the most common one that people are going to question is, is my dog allowed on this trail? Yeah. It sounds like other animals are allowed with a little bit of pre-care as well. So you need to pack out their waste and all of those things.

And you know, that sign said that animals are prohibited on the trail, but if you look at our borough code, I, I don't think they are prohibited. But as I mean, there are pack animals. Because of— or does it say pack animals in the code?

It does not say anything about animals, I believe, in the code. Let me look here.

Yeah, you know, and in the code You know, in its incidental uses, these incidental— this is kind of the— where uses can be restricted. It's under C. These incidental uses may be restricted to provide for public safety and to avoid real property degradation or vandalism if needed, which is why I feel like saying no ATVs allowed, like that's going to damage the trail. Bikes on the Alpine Trail will damage the trail because its intended use is hiking and Having a fire on the trail or at the trailhead near the facilities is going to be a damage. And so, you know, listing those things, I think we have that authorization. I don't like it.

It's like, it's squishy again with like the animals and, you know, with the one sign saying that they're prohibited, but we don't really have it in our code where it's prohibited unless we want to use that clause that is Insultive Denali uses are prohibited for public safety or to avoid real property degradation or vandalism,. Which, you know, a burro line. Of pack. Animals would make the trail not so good. And I actually like the dogs and pets part just because it is unique to the area because most of the park trails we can't have our dogs on.

So it is kind of nice to be able to. I feel like that's kind of like dogs are allowed on these trails. Like that is a positive. It's a good unique, you know, thing about this trail. However, we need to control our pets, right?

Even if that is a cat or whatever. So,. Well, and it kind of works well that the, the first word is dogs because that's where people's, you know, they're, they're paying the most attention, right? And the dogs are the ones that we feel like are maybe the most problematic of all the pets, I suppose. But then it says pets and pets.

Which covers the bases.

I saw a sign that you could add there. I thought it was a humorous one for dog poop. It says, if your dog poops and no one is watching, you still need to pick it up.

I thought that was apropos of the situation. That is funny. That is really funny. I do like the emergency information. I think that's solid.

Yeah, nobody— most hikers wouldn't— I wouldn't even realize that it was mile 245, right? You know, if I was calling 911. So I appreciate that good safety information there.

And I assume that if there's a bear on the trail or some— Like, I'm wondering about the word facility. I. Mean, is that just for the toilets or,. You know, I was like, what do I want to write here? So if anybody has any alternate wording, like, because I am happy to hear it.

So yeah, I was thinking about like, what could we actually control? What will we respond to? Right. You know,. I would just say like, Maybe just take out the word facility, just say any concerns, and then they could call and say the bathroom's really gross, or hey, there was a black bear on the trail.

Yeah, yeah. And then you could go up. And say. Thank you, bye. You know, I mean, you could at least put a note that 10:21 there was a bear on trail or something.

And again, if you choose to,. Right? Because resource-wise, you know, it's. Not—. Or you could call a CORC member who's a volunteer anyway and would do it for you.

And if somebody just feels strongly about some aspect of the trail when they leave a comment. At least we know what they think, you know. So yeah, good, good point. So maybe the word facility out is my suggestion.

Yeah, yeah. But on the back end, you're absolutely right, like there's not— you're not going to respond to every single— hopefully you're not getting a flood of phone calls about things.

Is that your dress? That is not my dress. I was gonna say, I did not put myself on the—. But that phone goes straight to Stephanie.

Are there any other things on this, this last third page? I think you're on the right track. Yep. I, I agree. I know, I think that was something I brought up with you too, with the less is more sort of thing.

I think people do walk up, don't wanna go hiking, they scan it briefly, and I, for their concerns, you know, when I go out, I'm like, is there a known dog? Yeah.

Thanks again. Yeah. And I guess looking at the rest of the, you know, I know that you've got some proposed edits. We could talk about those now, Patrice, or if anyone wanted to give feedback on the Leave No Trace text. I feel like it's still a lot.

It might— I could— I might need to pare it down a little bit to make it fit on one bulletin board. But yeah, just curious if anyone had any more comments about the Leave No Trace text.

One thing I did want to put in here was a map showing land boundaries of where the national park land is, because I know that is a current concern of the Park Service with dogs allowed on this trail, that they're not like going into the, the national parkland. So I think we don't have it. We have the pretty picture on the orientation panel that looks like nice, but then actually being like, okay, know whose land you're on. Okay, here's the map. It's your responsibility now, but giving that clear indication.

Are there markers actually up there? No,. I don't know. I mean, that would seem like a good idea. Yeah.

And the, the marker, I wonder if it would actually be like, what do you want, like a, a nuisance attracted, is if that's what you call it, because the trail ends before the boundary. And I think that there's like a deep saddle and we're not maintaining a trail to the boundary. That would just be there. But there will be a marker that says this is the end of the main trail. So I did put that in the contract.

Well, and it does say that Here past the end of the maintained trail, you enter Denali National Park. So I guess if you rez in advance and. So you're—. I feel like that could be sufficient that if someone sees an end of maintained trail, if they're signed, if they choose to go past that, they should know where they're going and what they're doing. I mean, they should in theory, right?

Yeah. How close does it get to the park boundary? The saddle? I am not I do not know the answer to that question. It's like, it's relatively close, but it's— you still have to go down a social trail, and I don't think it's like— it's— I haven't walked the loop myself.

Like, it's on AllTrails, but I don't, I don't think it's that well maintained, you know. So is the idea of the Antler Ridge Trail is that traffic does stop at the end of the main trail? Prefer people to not go through anywhere else. Okay. Yeah, that's the messaging.

So I think you're right, the Park Service boundary trail would be more of a nuisance and people would then go to that sign. Yeah, I would have— I've never been up that far, I guess. I wasn't aware of that. I didn't know that it wasn't intended. I haven't been beyond either.

So,. But. Yeah, it kind of ends at a rocky knob and I'm like, it's kind of would be a little bit like, you know, yeah, it's like, it'll be, it's at Black Diamond Peak and it's, I'm like, Well, that's kind of sketchy. Like, we don't want to encourage people to go down this and there's not going to be a maintained trail. There may end up being more, a more developed social trail, like there kind of always is when you put in a nice bomber trail.

Yeah. And when you get to the top, it'll be great because there's a lot of not so fun sidehilling near the top of the knob now. So I think it'll be, yeah, it'll be super fun when this trail's in. Yeah. And I mean, if people see the map and see that the— where the end of the maintained trail is.

I mean, if they're trying to get into the park, that's a different story. That's something.

Yeah, I was going to say, I know that we're trying to limit the language or go a little bit less is more. But on that first point for the know before you go, we had— we did talk, I think, a little bit about this, but I'm not seeing where it might be written where it says pets are not allowed in the national park. I thought maybe we would want to add, and overnight camping requires a backcountry permit.

Yeah, I. Think if we're talking about the park and what's not, what's park rule, a park rule.

You know, I might defer to asking Martha Tamayo. About this, about what she would prefer on that. I think some of the things that we talked about too is we can't list everything and it has to be someone's personal responsibility. No, I think the main concern is dogs, but like hunting's not allowed in the national park. That was in there.

Overnight camping is not. So just like listing out what is not allowed in the national park seems—. I hear you. Like,. Yeah,.

It might be a lot, but this would be a great reminder. I will check in with Martha Tamayo about what, like, what is the, what are the main concerns? Because is that one? Yeah, and it might not be a concern. I mean, but that is it.

Is that one of the backcountry units? Do we know?

I don't know off the top of my head. I don't either. But I will say for the backcountry units that are in the entrance area in general on the east end of the park, they get so little use, they're not usually like hitting their quotas or something. So I wouldn't be surprised if the park said like we're not concerned about it. My only thought is that now that we're.

Like. Building a trail that. Accesses that,. It's pretty rare that those entrances today aren't getting overrun by people typically. So unless this trail creates something.

Yeah, I think if you, you know, it's worthwhile to maybe just ask. Yeah. Another way, I guess, that I'm thinking of it is not having been up there myself, which I think would apply to those are the people that are— should be reading the sign. People haven't been out here before, should be educated about what's up there, is that I feel like the talking about the Denali National Park being up there itself is a little bit like the attractive nuisance that we talked about with the sign. Like mentioning, you know, maybe not at all, but I mean, when I read this, I— it kind of made me assume that, well, this trail continues into the park, where I wouldn't have thought about that if I just got to the end of this trail and it says, you know, end of maintained trail here, I might have been more inclined to just turn that.

When you bring up a good point because it says understand rules and regulations for the land you're hiking on. So we're putting the responsibility in their hands and then we say it travels to Denali Borough and State of Alaska land, which ends at the maintained trail, end of the maintained trail. And I think adding the nice map would still be fine. Yeah, yeah, I do. I would say I will check in with Martha Tamayo because she was very concerned about the orientation panel not including strict enough language about the national park.

And since this is funded by our Federal Lands Access Program grant, I think, you know, having the National Park Service like weigh in from their end on what they would like to see and what their concerns are. Is something that I really want to check with them, you know, before making any final decisions about wording. Yeah, it sounds like they probably want some language about the park on the— and, and so I guess asking or making sure that that is the case and then asking about pets, asking if any camping is a— if we, you know, the permit idea is a problem with the ambition.

I had a comment about under leave what you find. If we're moving on, all I was going to say is I don't— I feel like, you know, again, we're going with less is more. I feel like you can take out that line, do not clear areas for sitting or camping. Only because it's such an alpine territory that, you know, when we say in other places about stepping off trail and being mindful of the vegetation and sensitive vegetation. So I don't know, how do we feel?

Do we feel like we could just eliminate that line?

I'm fine with it.

Yeah, it seems reasonable to me. Thank you. And I was going to say, especially where we just said like leaving things where they are, including flowers, rocks, and vegetation, it kind of implies that we shouldn't be. Moving really anything. I was also looking at the first part of that sentence, leave natural and cultural artifacts.

I wonder about just different phrasing like natural items. The second bullet point kind of addresses cultural artifacts all on its own.

And the examples that we list in the first bullet point, flowers, rocks, vegetation, are all natural. So just for like slightly smoother word phrasing. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder about leave natural items where you find them.

Yeah.

Or just leave flowers, rocks.

Yes. This is a bush. Less is more. Less is more. And it's like I pared this down a lot from like it's been multiple days, but I think we can make it even simpler.

Yeah. Can I also make another comment about less is more? In general, like, sometimes when I'm doing my own documents and I'm trying to squeeze them together, using the ampersand— is that the word for it— for instead of and, just kind of like space-wise makes it look like less text to read. If you wanted to replace all the ands with— am I saying it right? With the ampersand.

Yeah.

I don't know, feedback might be good, but just having lived in a foreign country and speaking a foreign language, not in your native tongue, sometimes words that we use could be confusing. Yeah. And where it says food waste and layers, layers of what? We know what that means, but even having worked at many places and explaining to people how to dress for the weather. If you say layers, they don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah. So I don't know if we can say layers of clothing for changing weather, if that just might make it a little bit clearer for second language speakers. Yeah, you can say clothing layers for changing weather. Or just clothing for changing weather, because changing weather implies different layers or different seasons. Yeah, so then in D, absolutely, with Alaskans though, when you say layer, everybody knows exactly what you're talking about.

But even people in the US not familiar. Yeah, good point. And then just jumping down with that same thought where you're talking about depths and things, I don't know if we could in parentheses put it in kilometers. Oh yeah, the 6, 7 meters. Oh yeah,.

Yeah,. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't have to add much, but just like very simply. Yep, exactly. That's a great one.

Well, and I get— I don't know, on that note, if inches is written out but feet is abbreviated, so consistency, I guess, lies if you want to spread out feet.

Oh, and then we did— so for the dispose of waste Properly, pack it in, pack it out. We said toilet paper.

Do we, do we need to say that again, or is that just too much? Or for solid human waste, dig a hole and then pack out TP, or we not need to say it again.

I think it's— I mean, I have kind of the same— I had kind of the same thought, but I think it's clear, at least to me. But I also have done that, so I know what that means. Yeah. And I mean, I guess the other thing I was thinking, and I know we don't want to add more, but I was thinking that, you know, giving that why is always helpful, but saying, you know, that toilet paper doesn't decompose easily in Alaska's soils like it would in a warmer climate. Because I think, I don't know how much traffic we're getting here or how much bathroom use will be up there, so it's probably not as important.

But like, from a leave-no-trace standpoint, I'm like, oh man, you know, most people don't— are not used to packing out their toilet paper and they think it decomposes everywhere.

Maybe you could just do the pack it in, pack it out. This includes all trash and food waste. And then down here where you are talking about using the bathroom, not at the vaulted toilets, you could just move the toilet paper, like pack out toilet paper. I think I like that better. Yeah.

It's in this Ferry. You're right. Pack it in, pack it out. Yeah, but this is what we're saying that like just connecting it with the, with the, you know, when we're talking about what to do with your human waste and just making it clear again that You know, you're not burying your human waste, but you are not burying your toilet paper.

What do we have any limitations on camping other than that you can't have a fire and move vegetation?

The code? Yeah, according to the Sonntag rules of the park. Code, as long as it's not more than 14 days, right? Right. I mean, so not that I expect it to be an issue, but I mean, you know, so can you just post up and watch people camp, you know, right off the trailhead, right at their parking center?

I mean, does it become—. They certainly can for not, not more than 14 days,. Right? But is that sort of thing that we— I, I understand that it's We're limited by what our code says, but just—. So what are you saying?

Do you want to put something about—. I don't know what it should say. I just foresee that, you know, we have a long history of this valley of people when they need a place to camp, find all kinds of places to camp. And once camping starts, camping continues to expand. So it's a rough trail.

I don't know that many people want to camp in that kind of wind. So maybe it isn't really an issue, just I'm just bringing it up. Like, is there a sign in the parking lot that says no overnight camping? Oh, that could be. Yeah, there are signs in the parking lot that theoretically in the DOT right-of-way, but I mean, people probably won't know that,.

Right? So there's— but there, there is sign like no overnight camping. Because I think you might be referring to like the problem, the, um, you know, how along the highway everybody's pulling off their RV and campers and. I am, but also, I don't know, I'm just thinking hypotheticals here. So like wherever there is, I haven't gone up the whole way, but there are spots, you know, there are some saddles and stuff like that where you could camp, you know.

And I mean, traditionally it's kind of poor etiquette to camp right next to the trail, you know, sort of thing. Well, and maybe, yeah, you could say you could add this because a League of Notaries principle is travel and camp on durable surfaces. So then that kind of those rules apply. Yeah, I'm just looking at it as like if somebody asked me now, so like, so what are the rules up there? Like, where can you camp?

And I'd be like, uh, I couldn't answer it clearly. And I feel like I'm more versed on that than the average visitor that's never been there before. Yeah. So I don't, I don't think we're clear on what we expect from the people. Right, and I think like this might be one of those things where who knows if it's going to be a problem, but if it is, then all of a sudden we're going to have this established campsite because people keep using a spot or something.

Yeah, and so I don't know that we need to call it out something specific now, even though we don't necessarily specifically have something in borough code to— I don't think— to back that up. Do we wait and see, or do we run into that issue, you know? You know what we need? We need a nonprofit Friends of Trail group that would help us take care of some of these things and maintain that for us. I'm saying.

Yeah. Another thing is the trail. We have authority over the trail, right? And we have authority over borough land. The trail passes through state land, which you.

Can camp anywhere. So like realistically, And I'd have to pull it up on the map, which I could do, where the borough boundaries are in the state. Like, are all the good camping areas on state land? So, I mean, it's not that it's not an important conversation, but it may be a complicated conversation with, like, the state. Which I think that we do wait and see.

We see, you know, if we start noticing that there's, like, so many people camping there, then we know we need to create the friends group.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, who knows? I mean, there are a multitude of solutions potentially down the road. I mean, if you get a spot that's being impacted like up one of these lower saddles, you know, and you don't want it anymore, you talk to the state and maybe you end up just plunking down a little sign, poke right in the middle of where an obvious tent pad is and says, please don't camp here, it's led to this problem, you know, sort of thing. Or I mean, we can make new signs, we can change things. Well, on the bulletin board, like you said, can be updated, right?

Um,. And then no overnight in the parking lot means we might deter some from camping overnight out there too. Or at least the people that are trying to squat maybe right off the trail. If you're backpacking up there, hopefully you're a savvy backpacker who follows rules and educated. Best practices.

Yeah. And I did purposely take out camping language on here. So it's kind of like, take out language about drones, take out language about hunting, take out language about camping. Like kind of a don't put it in people's— like, it's kind of like your idea about the national—. But don't.

It's like, let's not even mention camping and where you can camp on here. Let's mention the trail and how to be— have good etiquette for the trail. So that was kind of like— purposely done. This is where, like, after we had some of those conversations, I went a certain direction. With some of the text to pare it down to.

For that first print thing that says concentrate use on existing trails.

I was just thinking, I don't know, concentrate use just doesn't sit right for me. I was just thinking stay on existing trails.

I don't know. I don't know why it struck me. That will take out some letters. Yeah, simpler.

I was going to ask, when it says yield to other users on the trail, so it's not going to be— it's not like a bike situation, or I guess on the lower loop it could be. I was just wondering if we wanted to be a little bit more specific about that. I always feel like people never know if you're supposed to yield to uphill, downhill. If we're going to say the word yield, I just thought maybe we should be specific. I think that it just means be a good person.

They're coming down, like every time that we have a chance when we're passing someone on the trail, you just step aside if you have the space. Yeah,. You know,. I mean, well, maybe that's what instead of calling out specifically yielding. It's, it's something, some clever way of saying just that, like be courteous.

Just be—. That says it in the first line, respect other visitors, be courteous. So maybe we don't even need to say you.

Be courteous towards other users on the trail. Yeah.

I— this can be a much shorter sentence. Wow, there's a lot of words in here now I'm reading it.

Respect and be courteous to others. There you go. There you go.

Or else.

Or non-existent, uh, or else not profit. Or else I'm gonna call Stephanie. Um,. Call up the, the Denali Bar number.

We're going to go hike in there. She's going to find you. Be called out to hike it out in Rich Steppe. Something racing before us.

We'll find you.

You know, one that I was like, should we include this or not? Is under respect wildlife, that bear spray or firearms can be helpful in close encounters, but should never be used as an alternative to common sense approaches to bears or other animals. I was like, Should we keep that in? Should we not keep that in? But then I was like, well, I just really want people to have common sense because that will help like avoid encounters.

But I was curious, like the wording, it seemed like, should we say this? Should we not say this? I'm curious. I do feel like you've given, or these other points make the follow in line with the bear aware behaviors that you do before deploying your bear spray and firearm. So I don't even know— I.

Could say bear spray is not a substitute for common sense. That sounds passive-aggressive. That would be to the point, right? That's the tone we're going for. I'm behind it.

Well, things are fair. Bears and bear spray and firearms are allowed on the trail. So it kind of like, it does bring up that point to know that you can carry your firearm here, which maybe people want to know. Maybe you put that part about bear spray and firearms are not a substitute for common sense. Yeah, now that it's sitting with me, I like it.

Well, I was going to say at the top of this list, And then the bullets underneath it are make noise so you don't surprise, you know, basically list all the things that what we consider to be common sense for, I mean, that are sensible to all dudes around animals.

I mean, Jared Springer is—.

I haven't figured out a way to phrase exactly what I'm thinking, but I'm wondering about in that second half of the sentence where we're like, it's not an alternative to common sense. I'm wondering if we would want to incorporate something about like, they aren't an alternative to the preventive measures, like, because those are like the last resort, but what they don't replace is like, well, how can you just avoid ever ending up in a situation that you need them? I'm all for common sense, but I do, I don't know if like, as a visitor, someone who is like a little bit less familiar with hiking in like bear territory, common sense approaches might like, I might be like, well, tell me what are the common sense approaches, which are laid out above there. But just seeing that phrase, I would be like, well, I don't know what that is. Like, tell me.

Okay. But saying bears bring their firearms can be helpful in close encounters but are not a substitute for, like, I don't think I have the smooth wording, but are not a substitute for following best practices to prevent bear encounters. Well, that sounds good. Something that could maybe be slightly—. And to Al's point, maybe that needs to be first.

At the top. Saying the measure— what did you just say? You. Can have it. It's not a substitute to following best practices to prevent bear encounters.

Yeah. You could just more simply bear spray and firearms are a last resort. Please follow the following rules, you know. Or please also say listed above and keep it at the end, because if you go in like order that people should be like using these things, it should be at the end. That's right.

They just read it and be like, but then you can still refer to listed above if you still want to make that reference. Um, okay, so I think the wording needs to change. It needs to be massaged a little bit for that last one is what I'm hearing. Are you giving us homework? No, I'm giving myself one more time.

I think from last meeting it's like 80%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's like so good,. But I think we can condense it down. I think that there is some like jargon, like I like how you mentioned that, Nicole.

Like there's some jargony words in here and it can just be made simpler. Like actually referring to things. So how is everyone feeling? I feel good about that. Yeah, I feel like we can wrap that up.

Yep. I think we should talk about some Nordic ski trails.

Look at that.

Alrighty. So I guess as a preface or like an update, I don't think I said this in my report, but I did file with the Alaska Railroad for the entry permit. It's just, I think next, the first week of November will be around the 8-week timeline. They did acknowledge receipt of the application for the entry permit, but I haven't heard back. They just said we're processing it, wanted to let you know that we've got it.

You didn't put that in your community development. Director update, and I was like, what, what,. What? Yeah, well, I think we're going with the practice of if we talk about it on the agenda, I won't,. Uh,.

I won't sidetrack us during the report. Um, so with the, the worksheet, um, this, um, is on this part of the agenda, this prototype worksheet that I was talking about before, just as we think of, you know, walking through the steps of like how does a project go from, again, an idea to a reality and what will we need to know. And so I think Chris Noel has done a great job thinking about things, and I like handed him like 5 different worksheets from different areas and was like, think about this. And I was like, you know, maybe it'll be helpful if I put this all in one place. Not saying that we need to go through it now, and there's a lot.

This is a prototype. I'm really open to hearing feedback about what makes it useful for you, you know, as a user. But something that I wanted to say is ready for us and the CORP to use as a resource and continue to develop. And also this is under new business, the court resolution to support the Nordic Ski Trail project on railroad land. I wrote that up.

It's a draft basically, and I, Al, I made some assumptions. I was like, I'm just going to put this down, but like if I putting myself in the shoes of an assembly member, what would I want to know? I'd want to know what is the history? What is the potential need? Why is there the ask?

And what actually is the ask? Of borough staff and the borough financially in order to support a project. So I made some assumptions, like I was just like, no plowing, parking here, and that can change. Like, I didn't like make a formal decision on that, but I was like, oh, well, if this isn't the plan, we should put something else in this spot. Just kind of the things that I thought of as you work on your first resolution.

So I think that that's where I am. Were there any other follow-up tasks that I was going to do on this project, Al? Do you remember? No, I apologize. I've been predisposed for a while here now, and I haven't got to spend the time on this that I thought I was going to be able to.

I did this afternoon, got back from town, went through and filled out most of these stuff on these pages, but I also thought I need more time with it. I also thought that we're going to be needing a work session again, or I'd like to have another work session here now that we're getting snow and people are going to be thinking of that. So, um, and. Well, this, this will be helpful for kind of everybody at the work session. And, and for people at the work session to potentially contribute or modify when I want to have more.

So, um, I'm mostly back. I have to leave again for a bit, but I will, I will dive back into this, um working. But if you want to— if we want to schedule a work session, yes, we should schedule it. Yes, now we should do that in this. Meeting.

Yes, in this moment. Okay, we're good with that. Well, I'm just saying, right? Yeah,. That's— I mean, I, I thought it was going to be forever till the snow flew.

There's, you know, speaking about this project last spring and like, wow, it's here. So, um, yeah, time to—. Every year, um, I would suggest either like probably before Thanksgiving. Yeah, before Thanksgiving week, I guess, is what I mean.

And I kind of was like not sure how— when you were going to even—. I wasn't either. I'm still not 100%, but I, I think, I think November is pretty clear At least after the first week. And if we make it tonight and it doesn't work for your scheduled plans, can we— we can just change it, right? Like, sure.

So. Yeah, I would. Think as long as we have 2 weeks notice. But. I don't think it's 2 whole weeks.

I mean, 10 days. 10 Days. Okay, 10. Days. Yeah.

Um,. And I will say, if, if before Thanksgiving is too close, it's okay to say that it's too close. And. I mean,. Well, if it's true, I mean There is snow, but I'm not going to go skiing right now.

Maybe. I went skiing today. Did you? I went last night. Yeah, it's the best.

Wow. Okay. Wow. I don't like skiing. I did not ski.

You got to keep your skis up. Um, Stephanie, the reason I even said before Thanksgiving is because once you hit December, it's just not It's true. Thanksgiving week, there are a lot of people traveling during that time. So, and that's a month away. Yeah.

So we'll have a month more of snow potentially. Yeah. And it'll be good input. I mean, there were things that came up at our first work session that I, you know, I'm like, feel like I've been totally in this and wouldn't have forgot some of these things, but people brought up some stuff. And so the more of that that happens in advance of the actual ski season hitting here, I I appreciate it.

Well, and I just really think that it will get people excited to be involved, but to have a work— you know, the work session that we had was at the end of the season, right? Everybody was looking to summer and not the coming ski season. So yeah, I think, I think sometime in mid, mid, early November. What number of days do you have the week of the 16th, Amber? Um, like, are any of those days not available?

Um, most of them, um, the 19th, most of the 19th, or Thursday or 20th. Can I just ask, is there a possibility, just because our work sessions have been— they've been in person in the past, and I'm traveling that week. Is there a possibility— I know Thanksgiving week people do travel, but what about like Monday the 23rd? Is there anything on the calendar? And do you think that's too close to travel for people?

I think it could be okay. And I know the last— I know that we did end up streaming the work sessions,. Which I—. Yeah, so I think you could do it even if somebody was traveling that really wanted to attend. They could pop in.

So you said the 19th is available? The 19th, yes. And then what about, what about the Friday, um, the 23rd? I'm gone, um, but can't have that. What's your— maybe someone could— what's your November 8th?

When do you take off? Yeah,. I'm gone. Oh,. Okay.

From November 2nd. Oh, gotcha.

Um, but if the 19th is a good date, I look And it's going to be, I think, like the, like the week of the 9th, like the 11th is the assembly meeting. But for us, that would be open as well.

Okay. 19Th just gives kind of a little more time for Al to like wrap his head around things too. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't mind me just tuning in online.

No, that's fine.

What about any other—. Yeah, the 19th. What does the 19th feel? I would have to be online too, but I think that that would be enough time for getting notice out and getting some time here. Okay.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll be online or I would be in person. It might be, it might be in the air for that day. Sounds good to me.

Okay, 19 to— what? Yeah, how did you feel about the 7 PM start versus 6 PM? I thought it was better for the— I mean, Golden— a lot of the Golden Valley and Yosemite crews end their shift at 6:30, so 6 is not realistic. So 7,. 7'S fine.

I think that does up— you're traveling from the village and after— yeah,. And it's not going to be nearly as long as our regular meeting. No,. No, no, no, no. Yeah,.

Yeah. Okay, 7 PM on the 19th.

Well, and then it won't feel so long between our October meeting and our February meeting if we meet in November.

All right, can we move on to then, um, New business stuff. I'm ready. Okay. Trails inventory discussion.

Steph, you want to lead that? Yeah, well, I heard from Jess Tupin, and that was the only CORC member I've heard back from. Did anybody get a chance to take a look at the mapper and have any feedback? I guess I'm ready to listen. I did look at it.

It's amazing. It's intricate. It's a little bit over my head, a little bit, because I'm not a GIS person, I guess. But the only thing that I kind of noticed was potentially there are some ski trails on there, ATV/ski trails around the Dry Creek area, but there are a few missing, and that's probably just because when we populated some of those inventories, it's not like I had a ski track for everything.

But I gave the, I think the GPX tracks for those few that are already on there for Dry Creek and, and Bog Hill, Bog Hole Road and Pioneer Road. So I feel like I could add more. I could send more GPX. Tracks if we want to keep populating that area. And again, those are like combination ATV/ski trails.

And then that kind of also included some of those Stampede trails, because if you're looking at that map, there are some ski trails that come from Dry Creek that go over the hill to Stampede, and those weren't on there. OK. But again, that's like, I can try to work on getting those GPX tracks and send that to you if we want to keep that inventory full.

The other thing I noticed missing, and the village trails like that was, I was amazed at how many were inventoried down there. The other area here in Healy was There is some trail, informal trail out at Centrana, and that wasn't on there.

Sorry for this, but can somebody refresh me as what was our— the intention? Maybe it's just an inventory, right? Like internal inventory right now. It's internal at this point. Right now.

And I am Still going back to, we had a really good one already, so it feels a little redundant to me. Remember that with Teresa? We had— because. I thought that that was this. Is it the same?

I will see. That's, you know, where it's a little bit difficult with like the changeover is it's my assumption that all the, the, the things that the, the—. I saw a lot of the ones that we—. Yeah, the, the initial cork done what was transferred over into the GIS system. And so it's— this is like the double check of like making sure like, okay, is everything there?

Because that is one of— if you look in the, um, the Corp plan, like doing the trails inventory, this came when we were reviewing the implementation strategy, like, oh, is it done? And so there was all the work and And I don't know how people were giving files to Teresa. I'm assuming that what was given is what is in the GIS right now. It looked like it to me because I feel like I'm the one that submitted a lot of GPX tracks. And so it did look like it was the same.

And at that time, I think we had some sort of refresh my memory. We had like a— not a Google Drive, but like some other— yeah, where things were. It was—. What was that called? Like the box?

Gosh, I can't remember. Anyway, doesn't matter because it felt like they were all on there. Um,. Yeah, so. It's like I took Teresa driving.

I can look and see if it's on there. And she was like tracking us. Yeah. So it went straight into the program. Well, like, for example, I remember you took us down to the railroad tunnel and that is on there.

Gardner Tunnel? Yeah. So that track is on there. Okay. Yeah.

And like, there is some cleanup to do because like some of the tracks are like, oh, you ski there, ski it out. So actually the trail is like 2 times as long, you know. So, but that, those are things that we can clean up. Like, you know, some of the comments that, that Jess Tubman wrote, were about trails in summer and winter that, you know, cut over on borough lands in McKinley Village. And that was pointed out with locals during the talk of having a borough subdivision or subdivision on borough land out there.

It was the concern that all the trails were mapped. So that, I guess that's one application of why we're doing this is where there is existing use on borough lands. Do we have that all accounted for? Is that taken into account? Like in any type of borough, you know, development.

Right. And I think we saw that with the public comments out of Stampede about the trails out there. There is borough land out there, like, and making sure, okay, so like, what are the uses? So when there is any type of use of borough land that we're taking that into account. Right.

And so like the basic purpose behind the trails inventory. Um, if people need more time to take a look at it too, I mean, I think it's, you know, an on— it can be an ongoing thing. Um,. I think I'll just make it my goal this winter to like speak more and give you more. So this is mostly for internal use.

Are we looking at making it public at some point or. Potentially? I think, you know, there are some questions, you know, it's like, okay, well, there are trails across, like, whose land is it, right? You know, so there's like— and then it could be also if there is a trail that we want advocate for. And then how do you, how do you develop that?

Like say Antler Ridge, you know, that was a social trail that could have been on this, you know, map. And then, okay, well, let's turn that into a formalized trail. What does that require? That requires approaching the state and getting a trail easement, you know, and, but also. We don't want anybody's favorite berry patch to be on the trail.

Yeah, we got lots of trails, but do we want to put it on here? Are. They going to then become this really popular thing that is really a Lignite neighborhood type thing, you know? Right. I think you'd only want to make things public that are where.

Site-specific or. Project-specific. Well, like, Amber is— we should have, if we had a GI or if we had a mapping on the new website or something, like, we'd want to have that as a— because it's an established trail. But I don't think we'd want, like, anybody's. No, well, not even berry patches, but I mean, like, for instance, like, if you say, I don't know, we have a random trail going someplace and, and it's known to a handful of people, like, you wouldn't probably want to point it out to the entire borough or everybody because, because that trail, like, you know, its tread surface is fine for, for the handful of people that use it.

Not everyone is like that. You wouldn't want to suddenly make it— it's like how social trails become a problem everywhere. Suddenly you get this, all this extra traffic because it's become popular, because it's been posted on whatever website, you know. So, but I think we can, as long as we're careful about, diligent about, about not outing or not, um, broadcasting, broadcasting without looking at it. Let's read the questions.

It. Seems like access to some of the trails is challenging too, if it's kind of like local-only access, or there's just no way for someone else who found this trail online to get to there, even if the trail itself maybe would be appropriate for other people to use. Yeah, when I was looking at it, I found some that are like in my backyard and in places in the village where it's like anyone would be welcome on the trail, but like I just walk through my neighbor's like backyard to get there and there's no place for someone to park. Get on to the trail, right? So like it doesn't feel appropriate to advertise, but the trail itself could be used by anybody.

So you used the term from before, we shouldn't be creating some attractive nuisances by Right. Attractive nuisances. I'm writing that down. Yeah, there's definitely— this is for internal planning purposes. No intention for it to go live at the same time.

Like, if we don't record anything, then it's harder to advocate for, like, you. So, for instance, like, my property of Buttsboro Land, I'm not going to put the ski trail that is our out trail from our house, you know, on there. But our out trail connects to a larger trail which connects to the inner tie. So mapping the larger trail that connects to the inner tie that's on borough land is probably an advantageous thing if it's something that, you know, we use all the time. And then we're thinking about, you know, like, what do we do with borough lands in this area?

Same thing for Lake Knight, you know, if there's something on borough land that is like a, a main trail, not like mapping, you know, Like the private property thing is, you know, right? Yeah. I mean, that information goes both ways. I mean, it can expose things, but it can also protect things. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think, which I think would be good because, yeah, there's some overlap there. And I feel like when we first started with, as Cork, you know, the whole trail inventory was for us to also like identify some of these projects that ended up in here. And so It was sort of exciting to gather this all in one spot at the time. And yeah, it wasn't for like meant for like the public to access, at least not yet until it becomes a project or a thing.

So as a side note, if you could teach me how to do the GPS thingy, because then I could get some of those trails. If I— if they're not on there, I could get some of them on there. Well, so let me ask you, do you use— do you— what do you use when you're out and about? Um, we mostly snow machine or snowshoe, but we have skis. And then do you track?

No. With something? Okay. Yeah. Maybe like after the connect.

Yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

Yeah. And then I think, you. Know, and then could we just email it? Like, yeah. And then I, I can't remember what was the best— you, you get— sent me some GPX tracks when you did the stuff for the Nordic Ski Trail, and I can't remember if you texted him or email, but you basically just explore export the file and then I send it to our GIS person and then he like uploads it in like 2 minutes, which is, is pretty nice.

Yeah, I'll have to— we can, we can look at a process. Yeah, maybe, maybe that could be a follow-up for me is to— Good to. Move on. Yep, I think we should. Community outreach opportunities.

Okay, well, I guess I, I put this on the agenda because, you know, we're always looking for things like the health fair or whatever school events that where we can have a presence as a cork. And I know the trunk or treat is coming up, and so I wanted to sort of throw it out there. Um, I'm totally available and willing, um, to be the person that does this with my vehicle too. Um, but I was wondering if as if other people had any interest in, and also Stephanie, if maybe like, I don't know, we can use some of those water bottles or any of the giveaway things, or if the, if the Cork or Borough has a little bit of the budget to buy some of the candy to give out. And I could take the tablecloth and like, it's like a Cork-sponsored car.

I think that's a great idea. I'm still trying to catch up on life, so I. Would not be available. Fair point. All good.

That sounds fun. Uh, what do you know what day time it is? It's, um, Saturday the 31st, so Halloween, from 5 to 7. And I feel like I'm getting conflicting information. Is it in the library parking lot or the community center parking lot?

It's— go ahead. It's just that roundabout right there in front of the school, right? In the school. Okay, I'm sorry, not the library, but the The school parking lot? Yes.

Okay. And that's where it was last year, right? Okay, cool. And so the, the commitment is from 5 to 7. They say that cars can get there at 4 to set up.

Also, I would— I didn't do this yet, but I will email the person in charge to say that we are going to have— we're claiming a spot.

I would come and do it with you. I'm available. That was fun. That was perfect. Maybe you can have a pair of skis.

Oh my God, I was thinking, you know, a ski graveyard. No, you're right. I'm gonna try to get a little creative. Here's my other question is I only have the only like Halloween decoration I have is like I have one skeleton, um, but is there any other— are there any other work members that might have some decor that that I could use, or does the office have anything? And I could get creative with—.

I have a few, like, small little things, but nothing that would be good for, like, the whole trunk of a car, like, dripping it or something. I'll have to think about it. Okay, we might have to just brainstorm and get creative, and maybe it's— maybe it's done the ski trail, or we could have a costume or something. Yeah, yeah, we totally shift our focus here. I might do that.

What were you gonna say? Oh, I was just thinking like you could do some sort of little target. Yeah,. You know, shooting range, ski trail, those kind of beginner projects. Is there a project?

Yeah. So I have fruit snacks. Do you want different types of— do we need candy? We want the good candy. Okay, that's the answer.

Yeah, okay, so I think fruit snacks were. Fine, honestly. Do trail mix. Yeah, we could do trail mix. It's probably— that would be pretty good.

It could be, it could be, yeah, it could be fitting, right? Um, they did say like to prepare for about 100 kids, so I don't think we have like— I, I was originally, I was like, oh, I wonder if it'd be cool to like put some candy in the water bottles and give out But I don't think we have enough. Yeah,. And that's probably not. So how about I will do the follow-up on what swaggy items that we have there in like the—.

Take your. Inventory number and there will be something for you. I don't know if we have—. What about the reflective clothing? That— yeah, we have that.

So we have those. I think I'm trying to get some to the school too. I haven't got my supply in, so they may have already got them, but I think if we don't have them in, that'd be great. So then they can have them when they're trick-or-treating too, so they can see. Um, so, uh, yes.

And Stephanie, I'm available in the next week, so if there's like— if you need me to come in and, I don't know, put a swag thing together or do anything beforehand, I'll certainly do that. But I'll definitely coordinate with you and Katie about pickup of the stuff and there's any, you know, what we're gonna—. Well, yeah, sounds good. And if anyone is interested in Cantwell or Anderson, they are having their school events on Friday. Um, so they're, they're doing— in addition to the, you know, there's the, the thing in Healy on—.

I did see that too. And then originally I was like, oh my gosh, well, here's our opportunity to go into another community. And then there's— yeah, they're, they're kind of— Cantwell and Anderson, I think, is at the same time. Um, So, but yeah, just mentioning that they're having events too. Do we—.

Should we talk a little bit more about that? I don't know. I think, well, just like, you know, when we do events, like as the CORC, thinking about like where events are held, just thinking about like, like Katie and you and Jess went to the Strawberry Festival with Anderson. The CORC has yet something to do in Cantwell. I think we're planning that.

You know, for the spring and Wolf Point. But looking at that, I would love to. Yeah. When do you know offhand when the Cantwell trunk or is it a trunk or treat? It's a school carnival.

I think Anderson is doing something. There. That was the library. Yeah. Anderson Library.

Yeah. I think they're having something. I can't quite remember.

Another fun thing might be glow sticks. Oh, that is a good one. Yes,. Pretty affordable. We love them.

And then the kids with allergies have a good option. And they will get lots of candy too. Yeah, you know, you're not keeping them from candy. But if we were handed out glow sticks and reflective tape, that'd be pretty cool. I don't see the— okay, I see the Anderson Haunted Hallways and Trunk or Treat, and that's from 5 to 6 in their school lot.

This would be great if we had a court member that was an Anderson too, right? Because then they could— yeah,. That's pretty easily. So that's one. Well, I want to do Trunk or Treat 2 days in a row.

I. Can't do the Friday one, unfortunately. I have an appointment in town that afternoon, so— okay, I don't think I'll be back. Let me, let me think about it. Okay.

Um, and we don't know, but the Cantwell thing is a school carnival. Yeah, I think that's maybe a little different. Okay. All right. Um, and also, um, something else will come up in Anderson too, you know.

Yeah. But we definitely— I do want us to keep thinking about these outreach because I think that they're great. I think it's great when we do these things. And I don't know. And that's why I put on the agenda also the holiday bazaars.

I'm not sure. Sometimes these things come up last minute too. You know, they got— if Anderson has something or Cantwell, I think Cantwell used to do something in the past. Yeah, they did. But I think it's been a few years.

Putting it on our radar might be a good thing. I just haven't seen any dates announced. And I do love, Stephanie, when you said earlier about Winterfest. So this is probably the opportunity to talk about if we want to as a board. And Winterfest is usually like third week of February.

Yeah, I tried to see if it was on any calendars. Usually it's like the 20th. I was going to say the last weekend of February. I don't know if they have officially selected the date. It feels like a lot of times—.

I think that there's going to be a meeting in November where they like agree that it's whatever specific weekend, but third or fourth could be as simple.

And we might have to have a work session in January about it, you know, just time-wise, our February meeting and Winterfest, right? Be so close. Maybe we'd have to have some sort of work session on it. But could we even just highlight our ski trail if it's available? And then whatever, I mean, I get out hot cocoa at the end of the day,.

You know, like,. Yeah,. We had talked about some kind of winter event at the ski trail. So doing it at Winterfest when people are already like, I feel like it's very fitting for things to do. Yeah, seems like a time that we would get a good audience for it.

And that feels like we would have a lot of, um, pieces if the snow's good,. If Al's got the trail. In, if the You know, like, but. Well, why don't we all just keep our ears open about the dates when Winterfest is happening, and then also we'll put a work session on our calendar eventually to think about it. Sorry,.

Yeah, no, I would just— in thinking about this throughout the meeting, I don't know. I know that they have the ski races out there in the park. I don't know what that relationship is and why it is, and not that we'd want to change anything, because there's long history there. But I don't know if— I mean, it seems like Chuck Hugney basically just runs that for the youth, if that would be appropriate to hold at the Minch Ski Trail. But I don't know, like I said, that was just something that I thought is that there are those ski races.

It feels like, and maybe Katie could even speak to it more since she worked for NPS, but it feels like the park has sort of built up their Winterfest events and want that kind of draw and have a few different options and events. And then it seems like the borough sort of also has a second day, you know, Winterfest is a whole weekend. So we sort of have had very variations of events on that second day for Winterfest. Does that feel right? Does that feel—.

Oh yeah, they used to have like 4 or 5 hockey games all Saturday for that. Right. But they do a talent show, chili cook-off. Yeah. Um,.

How long is the ski, the ski race at the Arquette's? That I don't know. I've never actually been to the ski race event. Um, they might have a few different like lengths for different ages and stuff. They do it in rather than going up around, so they use the campground loops, which I think is, gives you some really nice short options for the younger kids.

So depending on how this trail turns out, I feel like But where it is currently might be a more flexible option for having some of those like short and like very wide and. Yeah,. Trails and things. So they did. So I guess.

Like, but I've never seen it, so I don't know all the logistics. Doing like a sequential sort of thing, like something like a 6-mile or a 10-mile race, like something with long distance. Like if you were gonna piggyback on like the park has done some of the shorter races that you could race. Yes. Although I'm feeling like we're not equipped right now to put on a race.

Oh no. Um,. But what if we do it like—. But we could get a sticker for this. Yeah, like, or get like 4 stickers.

And we can say that, you know, we're gonna be at the trailhead for the, um, and depending on the snow and depending on how everything works, either Auto Lake and/or this, um, here at the community center. Um, and we can set up a pop-up with hot chocolate and stickers. Yeah, I should put it— I, I know it wasn't meaning like necessarily for, for this year. I was just thinking of like future. Yeah, going through this worksheet that Stephanie had sent out, you know, it was like how, like, how are we incorporating the community?

How can we, you know, kind of impact businesses and things like that? And I was like, oh, well, when you add something like a draw, like a, a long, longer distance race, you can more apt to draw people from other communities. Well, and I think things like, like, like the Usik in Tahkeetna is so popular that like something like a, a longer or just like geared to all ages sort of race. Long term could be cool. That'd be fun because the one in the park is only for kids,.

Right? Got— oh, gotcha. Okay. It's just for the ski clubs, right? So if you did like a costume ski race,.

Fun. I mean, that people do that all the time, wear your costume and ski race. I will say, um, I, I can share some information about ski race because I have a child who does it. Every year. Um, so it's nice because they have the different loops, you know, for the different ages.

There are trail monitors that help make sure the kids don't get lost. Um, and then it's immediately followed up by a lunch so the kids can go inside warm, eat someplace, and then, you know, an award ceremony, which makes a big difference when it's -20 at Winterfest. It was pretty cold. Yeah, it's like It was, it was pretty cold last year. So I think that, you know, that, that's a good model if you're doing something with kids.

Maybe adults are a little bit tougher, maybe they're not. I don't know. But like that, that food component. But like you're saying, like an economic driver too, you know, like what does that look like? And no pressure to like if the cork isn't ready yet, you know,.

We can— but like to say that we'll try to do something. And it does feel like every year Winterfest agenda looks a little different. But like I said, like, the park feels— it does feel like they've organized events a little bit, um, to be more, um, consistent over the years. But borough side, like, things have changed over different, uh, years. So we can commit to say that we'll try to do something and put a work session together for planning that something.

Yes. And then announce it just in time, like everybody. I mean, it feels like Winterfest sometimes is announced like the week before. You know it's coming, but you're not sure what—. Sure what's going to be happening that weekend, but there's something.

Sure. Yeah. And so I guess to help you prepare, um, and support you, um, it would be good to have decisions if you need any supplies so that we have adequate ordering time. We know you're the money person. I was like, well, I'm not the money person, but I can ask the money person to spend money.

But like, um, you know, like I was thinking, if you guys want like a tent or like a shelter. And like, you know, I remember I was like at the Strawberry Festival, like when you were sitting out there in the sun. Oh, lessons learned. That one isn't weighted down. Oh wait, it's glowing away.

Like things like that to be prepared. Like if you wanted something like that, just thinking about knowing sooner rather than later so we can get it delivered. You know, it may take a couple of weeks to get something in place. So. Cool.

Yes, we will hopefully give you.

Awesome. Should we go on to the next one? Okay. Visit to Delta Junction.

Okay, I have to say that, Stephanie, I took a deep dive into it because I, after I asked you, I was like, have you heard from them? Yeah. And wow, their trails association is what I am hope or envision that eventually we will maybe have here. Nonprofit-wise. It's a great model, but they have tons of people involved in the, in their trails association, and it does seem like it's been very sustainable, and that's kind of where I want to make sure that we also can be sustainable and getting like people, more and more people excited about Nordic trails or involved so that we're, it's not just one man and his dog.

Um, but you had said you hadn't seen any events listed for the— and they didn't really so much like put dates on, but they seem like they always have a Turkey Trot, and then they call it the First Day Hike for January 1st, and, um, something in February that they call the Walk of Lights, and then they sometimes have done Celebrate the Sun in March. So I'm, I'm feeling like maybe an event is really not where we need to do a site visit. Yeah,. It's more so just kind of maybe going up to see their trails or see what signage they might have out there in thinking about our future of our trail system. Yeah, I think it would be Um, it'd be nice, like, to— maybe not this specifically, but I was like, you know, like, if you're out on the trails, like, like a, like a group campout, you know, sort of thing, like where you have the time to sit down and talk about it.

I know I'm gonna have a lot of questions about just— that are probably gonna evolve and get deep, you know, as just— I'm sure their community is similar to ours, and, uh, it'd be really interesting. I mean, they have almost the same number, it seems, population-wise. But they have a dentist and they have stuff like that, you know what I mean? And I'm only saying that because they have more—. No, yeah, their infrastructure is different.

But I mean, but they're a very diverse community. They are too, you know. And that diversity is a good thing here, but it also presents challenges. And I'm really curious, like, how they gather up this large group and get them to continue to volunteer. Exactly.

I mean, they have like thousands and thousands of dollars in their Trail Association, like, from donor— but in like the membership, you know, it doesn't feel like the dues base is where their money comes from. So obviously they're getting, you know, grants maybe, or donor, or have large donors. And I'm not sure that we right now have that traction here, but. Yeah. I'm assuming that this— that Delta's a— they are a city.

Is Delta a city? That's a good question. Do you know that? Yes. Yeah, they are.

Does that make a difference? Sure. Okay. Money-wise it would, for sure. But this is not— this is a— this is a nonprofit not associated with the city, you know.

So it's not a— it's not a committee, uh, like they do. I— I think— I can't remember if they have a Parks and Rec Committee or not. So to share a little bit more, I have been in touch with the president. I. Didn't mean to like comment.

Yeah, no, no. At the Alaska Trails event, I met her. She sent me— they have a 13-page like document which I'll forward to you, which is a timeline of their accomplishments. So it's like, it's pretty, or maybe it's over 13 years. It's a lot.

Maybe it's not 13. It might be 13 pages though. It's like they've, they've done a great job at highlighting everything. And I think you're right on the, the ball there, Patrice, about maybe visiting at an event is maybe not the best time to visit. They did, so they have their walk-up lights February 13th.

They have a lighted trail, which is really cool. Yeah. Like they figure out how to have like a lighted ski trail and they do like walks with luminarias on, you know, it's kind of similar to like this, the solstice. Event at the park. And they also help with the local ski club and they're starting that on February 11th too.

So I was like, okay, well that sounds like you're super busy that particular week. And I think that this group had been talking about maybe visiting later, maybe in March, like some of the members, and they have a board meeting on October 28th. So they wanted to run the— she wanted to run the request by the board. And so Her ask was to get some information from this committee about what you would want out of a site visit. So what that would look like, she said, you know, we could offer like, how do we connect public events?

Do we do trail tours? You know, how do we connect meetings on our Google Drive? And I'm like, well, we don't have the nonprofit association, so maybe that's not the best fit yet. And then like other things of interest. So I think getting from this group like a better list of like, what do you want to know to move forward?

Is it like, how did you start the nonprofit? Or how do you fundraise? Or how do you bring people together and get them excited about trails? Like having an idea of, you know, who might want to go, you know, how much housing we might need if you want to do trail tours, you know, to what that looks like. Someone going to bring their snow machine?

You know, anyone planning on bringing a dog team? These were questions. And so just like thinking about what you, what you might want to do and when you might want to ask questions. I mean, I think it'd be great to visit in winter. There's also like they do a hike up Donnelly Dome too in the summer.

Yeah. So I guess putting that out there, right? Like, do you want to do a spring visit and what, what would you like to learn most, I guess? Yeah, I think you did say two of the questions that I'm most intrigued by. One being like, how did they— not so much how did they create the nonprofit, because we've talked through, you know, how simple that might be.

Um, but how did they like— what's the history on how they built this up, um, with the interest, with the number of people that they have involved who have been so dedicated to it? Yeah, how did they start small, get to where they are now without even running— or did they start Or did they, right? Yeah, yeah. And what are the— what pitfalls, like what problems did they see and fix or avoid altogether? Right.

And then I am very— I really do want to see their trail system only because, you know, we were talking about different kinds of trails here and just to see how it's managed or, you know, hearing more, learning how the— how is this self-sustainable it is or how much, how much they need from their volunteers so that we moving forward could also think about that so that we know what to expect.

As it's been a while since I've looked at their site, is a lot of their stuff winter-based? Do they, do they have less summer-based? I didn't really, I, In terms of events, I didn't see any summer events, but you just said something about Denali— Denali Dome. Yeah, they have a hike for Trails Day that goes up Denali Dome. Oh, I did see that.

And then they are constructing a new area. I was like fascinated by this with Design Alaska, like they're building an area. I would have to pull it up. I can't remember the specifics right now, but like, you know, there's going to be like a pavilion. It can be an outdoor gathering area.

And I'm not sure if they have like, if planned also with ATVs or it's just hiking trails, like wind sculpture there too, because it's very windy in Delta. And I was like, whoo, that's something. Yeah, I was like, okay, what is this? Like, are you going to power something by wind? Like, what is— so I like— they're also developing that, which is, you know, pretty interesting.

They have, you know, lights on a trail. They also have a warming hut that they put in place with grants from like GDA Good sense. So I think maybe looking at that would be like, I think, um, something like, what is, what does that take? And then also, I think they're very good at involving their local community and getting donated efforts from businesses. And that's the part that I'm like, how?

I mean, because it feels like, you know, everybody here is always overasked for,. Right? Um, and we do have a lot of local businesses because of the tourism industry, but,. Um, well, I was just seeing the wisely. The reason I was asking was because, I mean, it seems like getting out the Sea Trail is easier to do in the wintertime.

I mean, provided it's not 40 below, but it's access to the landscape is so much easier in the wintertime. So I think trying to keep it in the winter would be— and plus it's just the lights and visitors,. Right? Yeah, I'm definitely a fan of a winter visit. Sorry, a winter visit.

Yeah. And I mean, again, and this could be something on our own. They don't need to like take us necessarily on the trails or guide us on the trails, I guess, if it's easy enough for us to figure out. But I do feel like we would want to have some kind of sit down with somebody who's been involved, maybe from the start even, or somebody who's had a long time involvement to kind of hear about that history. Side and how they built it up.

Yeah,. Hearing about like the maintenance and like ongoing workload that they have to maintain the trails and the whatever small facilities they might have, like the warming hut, like how many people do they have contributing to that? And like, how does that— how do they manage that ongoing, yeah, maintenance and stuff would be good to hear. And I think allowing enough time, like as opposed to like an aft— just an afternoon visit or something like that. Right, yeah, like it's a long— it's kind of a long drive.

You know. So. Yeah, and it seems like it's a long discussion, you know, like, um, so like a longer visit. It does— I guess it doesn't have to be super intense on their part. I don't feel like they need to like super entertain us and come up with a big plan.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it can be more informal. I think the conversation will be, um, well, just, um, can't think of the formal word right now. Um, it, it'll We'll get to all the things we need to cover. Yeah, it'll be organic.

That's the word. Thank you for hearing. But I think you mentioned something about— you mentioned housing. Are they saying that they are willing to, like, put us up if we go overnight? They were asking about that.

I mean, the borough does have a travel allowance. It would make sense. I mean, if we're shooting for, like, say, March, if we're Obviously then we have more daylight, but it would make sense to maybe have one night there so that the drive is not so—. Well, especially if we want time to have this longer conversation, time on trails to see some. Of the—.

Yeah, yeah.

So I suppose since they mentioned it, you could say like housing for at least 5. People or something. 6 People. What's their option? Are they saying that—.

Yeah, and we do like— I don't know what the hotel options are, you know. I can't—. Yeah, I don't know either about that. But again, as a hockey mom, there are a few. There are a few.

I do—. I've also slept in the gym before. There's always a school option. So that's the thing though, like budget-wise, like if the borough only has a certain amount for travel and, um, and there are so many of us interested in going, then maybe like if we are like camping in the gym, we could probably decide whether or not we're up for that, or, you know, if they're offering that since you've camped in the gym.

I was just looking, I'm like, what is the drive time from—. I looked it up, I think it's like 3 and a half. It's like Basically 4, 2 to Fairbanks, 2 to Delta. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, that's. Right. So really definitely not right to try to—. No, because I just didn't feel like that's like, you don't want to be rushed by, by that. And for my part, I don't care where I sleep, you know, sort of thing.

But. It's, uh, if you want to sleep outside, you do. I don't do wind camping. Well, I would, but I mean, it's, uh, I've just like been involved in things like this in the past, um, and it's like many really great conversations and a lot of great information gets passed around a campfire at some point, you know. I mean, like, it's, it's not something that you—.

You have talked about your heat attack. Well, yet. Yep. Anyways, so numbers, who, who is interested in going? I am interested in going.

Okay. I am definitely interested. Yeah, I would be interested in going. Obviously it'd be date dependent and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, potentially if dates work and stuff.

Okay, Jess Tubman would like to be flown in from. Amsterdam.

She might be here. I bet you she would be interested, unless— but I don't want to speak for her, and she probably will have lots of catching up to do on life. Um, Okay, so how about as next steps, I will reach out and say we want something— we're thinking informal and organic, but wanting to have, you know, some orientation to some of your trail infrastructure and then, you know, conversations. And yeah, like if we could have their attention for an hour, like, you know, I think that starts things right. I think maybe more than an hour.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, well, I just didn't want to over-ask. And I know too, like, depending on their response to that, there is always an option that we could do a virtual, like, pre-meeting, get some of the main things out of the way, or post if we don't have enough time. We could—. That's good— meet with them virtually too.

So we don't have to feel like we have to cram everything into that. No, you're right. Yeah, I feel like a little bit like a sister city sort thing, you know, right where you're just trying to make that connection. So. Yeah, and it might be, you know, I love the idea of a virtual meeting, getting to know them at first and then like following up once you get to know them with that, like you pen pal, you know, virtual call.

I think you've been making contact and having a history for us to look at is already a really great step on,. Right? Yeah. Where can we go to, you know, like that? First, so why don't I do a follow-up too?

I'll send everyone the history that, um, I got sent by Mindy, who is the 13th Raven. Yeah, it was long. I was like, wow, this is detailed and this is a lot of work, you know? Yeah, no, I would love to know. Um, okay, when we're thinking March, okay, does anyone have any time, like time limits in March, or just thinking about anything in particular?

We don't have a quirk meeting that month. Towards the end of the month I might be gone, but most of it should be okay. Nothing set yet, I don't think. Good. I'm wide open.

Okay, it is spring break that week, so, um, I'll see. Like, are you interested in going? I am not interested in going, actually. I will stick home and I will ski locally and I will enjoy learning about everything that you all learn. You send your soldiers out.

Yeah. So ambassadors. I think I'll ask her. There is that— it is spring break week. I don't know if she's got, you know, kids or other— that might just be one thing where to be flexible with timing.

Thank you.

All right, let's go on to the Quirk resolution. Very well written, Stephanie.

It's just in the online.

On this one, sort of, it is just clickable. Oh, sure. I think they're all here. Yeah, right. Yeah.

I didn't see it there. No, you know what? Didn't you attach it? Do you have the resolution up on your— would you be able to show it on the meeting? Yeah.

Oh, I see it there. I'm gonna hear taps.

Yeah, I'm like, I've read it. Yeah,. It's on the meeting packet.

Amber's just put it on the screen now if you wanted to kind of look at it on your iPad.

Scroll down.

That looks good to me.

The, um, I'm ready whenever, but I don't know where the only one is. The The last, whereas no anticipated calling costs, which I do still agree with. No parking access from the Tri-Valley Community Center. I can't promise that yet. Yeah.

So I was, you know, I just put this together as like a kind of a best practice. We thought like of the Quark issuing a recommended, like you're a formal committee, you can say, hey, this is to the assembly, you know. Our recommendation, and I, like I said, I filled in, you know, just like what I thought might happen.

Amber, I'm trying to think. We need for the quorum to pass the resolution. There needs to be a meeting, right? So like we either pass it now or in February or at another meeting, right? If we were to call it.

Yeah. I think we can pass it now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're like, yes, that language maybe is not set in stone, you're saying, which is—.

Or I mean, if you wanted to, like, if it's just there are no anticipated plowing costs,. Just leave it at that. Or yeah.

Yeah, because as a borough assembly, I'm assuming that's what they need to know, is that we asking for funding or anticipating funding. If we're not, we could keep it very simple. No matter what, I don't, I, I don't see the point where I would ask the borough. So if we just do that, and then we'll see what it is, um, why from scared of taxes.

Okay, what is our formal process for amending the resolution? Washington, man. Yeah. Oh, okay. I said— oh yeah, I'll go ahead.

Al, since it was yours, do you want to— yeah, say how you— how you want that sentence to read. Um,. So Al is moving to. Amend that— amend the last line of the last whereas to say there are no anticipated polling costs, period.

I would second that motion.

Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye.

We did it.

All right, well, I would now entertain a motion to, um, adopt this resolution asking to send it to the assembly. I second.

Really? Yeah. All in favor? Aye.

Great. That needs to be roll call. Roll call. Okay, formal. Thanks, Amber, for keeping us in line.

No problem.

That is momentous. This is your first official— I think it is.

We're like real committee people now, you guys.

Sure. Uh, aye. Is that what I'm supposed to say? Aye. Aye.

Patrice Levine? Aye. Denali Graham? Aye. Do we have this?

Good job.

Did I see somewhere where we need to have somebody go to the borough assembly meeting? That's down lower on, um, Report to the assembly, not quite yet. First public comments, if there's— were there— we— did we talk about them? Oh, we referred to them. Yeah, we referred to them.

Yeah, I feel like we acknowledged them during that conversation. And there's no public online right now. Is that something that we have to read into the record, or— no, they'll be attached to the minutes. Okay, perfect. When you pass the meds, perfect.

Okay. And, and as exciting, I think it was exciting that we have people that care about the trails and such. So,. Yeah. And I did appreciate the one that had the positive, this would be a better place idea.

You know, that was good too.

All right. Committee member comments. Um, I have two comments. Um, one, I'm really excited that we filled seat D. Looking forward to getting to know, uh, Michael. Thank you also for the getting the student reps. Been, um, excited that Abigail joined us and is still online.

Hi, Abigail! Um, and whomever else might be also interested in that. And then my other thing was I will be flying during our two 2017 meeting. Um, so I'm gonna just try really hard to log on for the second half.

Sounds good.

I— some of our seats are going to expire this next year. Do we know when those happen? Oh, good question. Good question, because I also realized that for me to look up right now. And that's okay, that can come later.

I just wanted to make sure that's on the radar, because if it's—. You're expiring on January 1st, right? Right. Your core credit card will be—. And is there a formal process for that too?

Like, I'm sorry, should you say the date? Oh, it is— it usually is in January. Oh, um, but what we can do, because I haven't looked at I hadn't even thought of that. Um, what we— what we'll do is we'll reach out to anyone that is expiring and, um, see the mayor. We'll see if they're interested in continuing to serve, and then the mayor appoints and the assembly confirms.

So before— so for some sort of seat is up, okay, the mayor will reach out to see if you're interested in continuing to stay on.

And also having an expired term, if you are— things are changing for you, it's kind of nice to go, okay, it's time, or whatever. You're gonna have an end date is okay sometimes too. But it's not been that long yet, so— Katie, did you have any public comments or any comments? Nothing else right now. Okay.

Nicole, anything else? No, thank you. Uh, I just had one quick thing. Um, I mentioned that Alpine, uh, snow machine to be used as a groomer that Jared Zimmerman had mentioned, and I checked in with him once more. Um, I guess the ski club in Fairbanks has a meeting in November where they'll make that decision to formally give it away and hopefully see us.

So it looks promising. Um, I'm on it. So is there anything that you need from the committee or from the mayor to like, yes, we'd love to? That might be important. Like I said, I just got back, so I just was talking to Jared.

I'll talk to him more about it. I— we said we could pick up that dialogue again, um, and, um, you know, we'll see what support we can get here, like a place to park it, place to plug it in, or store it inside, things like that. But. Okay,. Well,.

If you need something, let us know. Like, if you need a letter, we can write individual letters. Is—. Yeah, and they— he had mentioned something once about that we might need for them to donate it. It might need to be donated to— oh, something.

Did talk about that. So it might be the Denali Borough or the school, school ski club, whatever, just so that—. I think it may be—. So they just have a place to send it to. That's right.

So, but I will stay on that. Awesome, thank you. Forgot about that. All right, well, thank you for another marathon meeting.

Wait, we're not—. We still have the report to the assembly.

Yep, report to the assembly.

You just need somebody to volunteer to go to the assembly meeting, is that—. Yeah, so Planning Commission does assist as well. And it's just a way for the assembly and, um, its committees to communicate with each other. And so, um, when you have a meeting, this will be a regular item on your agenda from here on out, that, um, you'll just pick someone that can attend the next meeting and provide a report. And then, uh, is it like as long as like Stephanie's reports?

And do you cover every— like, would we be No, it's really, it just depends on, you know, what, what the current, what you choose to report. Yeah, and usually it's just a highlight of we met last month and we talked about these things is usually what it is. And so every once in a while the Planning Commission will have a bigger topic and it actually will turn into like a joint work session with the assembly where they can talk through some of those bigger issues, questions. Yeah, yeah. And, um, so potentially if you guys had a big project that would require some significant funding, that would, that would be a good use of setting up work session.

But anyways, it's just to stay in communication with the assembly. And is our resolution going to be on their agenda for that meeting? It will, um, it'll actually go on their meeting as part of the work report on the agenda, and that's where that resolution will get placed. Um, I anticipate that we will draft a resolution of the assembly supporting this project as well, um, that they would then pass or consider.

And it will be on November 11th is their meeting, which— and it will be held here. And you have to be in person? You don't have to be in person. I'm happy to do it. I have no problem doing it.

I have no problem with you doing it. Yeah, thank you.

I was going to say I could do it. Is that what you're going to be doing? Is that your first one after the new assembly members and that switch to. New assembly members and, um, election certification?

That'll be an easy one for me to be, because I will have certified the election with your help. Yes. And there has been potentially—. Be on the ballot.

Yeah. Okay. And that's here in Healy, right?

Gosh, that makes us even seem more official if we're going to be on the agenda every time. And by all means, it just, it won't be me every time. It'd be good for us to share that, especially like,. Sure, yeah,. I'll, as the trails come, you know, as we have a trail, Al can be like, hey, I'm Al, the guy with the tundra.

And you know,. Just one man. No, that's great. We'll, we'll all rotate then since it's going to become a regular thing. Yeah, that's perfect.

Okay.

Action items. Alex, to go over the homework assignment. What's our homework? Well, I know I have to do look into Otter Lake history for Stephanie and send some GPX tracks and talk to Nicole about, um, getting GPX or whatever. Yeah, GPS and find some supplies for—.

Yes. And I'm gonna, um, with Stephanie's help, connect with the Denali Sportsman's Club to hopefully the Healy Sportsman's guys and see.

Um, I want to make sure on the agenda that for February that we have the Wolf Point site meeting on there, um, a January work session potentially on Winterfest.

And then I have the history of the cemetery, which I probably will not have both done well by February, just so you know. And you have the report for the assembly, and I have the report for the assembly.

Yeah, uh, I have post the ski trail work session on November 19th.

I will specifically in the meantime also work on the various access options and try to nail down, um, something from one of the nearby landowners. They're definitely—. Okay, yeah. And.

Stephanie doesn't seem to be assigning us as much homework this time. Stephanie, I— your, your homework is to send us the Delta Junction history. Yeah, I've got some. But you also have other homework. Yeah, I've got lots.

I may not meet it all at work. Yeah, that's okay. You don't Some of us need to verbalize our homework. Make sure it's all down. But I will send out a follow-up, um, email to the meeting like I usually do.

And I always appreciate that. I really appreciate that. Yeah.

All right, so we will have our next regular meeting. We will have two probably work sessions between now and then. It will be February 17th. That's 6th, which feels like forever. Doesn't it seem like a long time?

It'll be here before we know it.

All right, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Anybody would like to second that? Second. All in favor? Aye.

Thank you all.