Petersburg Borough: Assembly Meeting

It's 6:00 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2026. I'd like to call the regular, uh, meeting of the Petersburg, uh, Borough Assembly to order. And with that, would the clerk please call the roll? Mayor Lind? Here.

Vice Mayor Stanton Gregor? He's excused. Member Martin? Yes. Member Meucci?

Here. Member Newman? Here. Member Marsh? Here.

Member Valentine? Here. Thank you. We have 6 people present in the, uh, in the room, and we have 1 person tonight excused. And with that, I'm going to move on.

We have an oath of office tonight for our newly elected Assemblymember Donna Marsh and our re-elected Assemblymember Scott Newman. And with that, would the clerk please—. Would our two new assembly members please stand and raise your right hand? And I'm going to read the oath to you. And when I get done, you can say I do or I will.

Do you solemnly affirm that you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Alaska and the ordinances of the Petersburg Borough, and that you will honestly, faithfully, and impartially perform the duties of assembly member for the Petersburg Borough, Alaska, to the best of your ability.

Well, thank you. You can sign your oath there, and I'll pick it up after the meeting. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you.

Yes, welcome to our new member here, and we welcome for our standing member there. I'm going to move on then to the voluntary Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Tonight we have, um, there's two sets of minutes for approval. We have a regular assembly meeting minutes from September 21 2021, 2026, and Assembly sitting as the Canvas Board meeting minutes for October 9, 2026. The certification election results are attached to these minutes as Exhibit A and are available on the borough's website. Do I have a motion to approve both of these sets of minutes?

So moved. Second. When moved, I believe Yeah, you know what, it was moved, it was Jeff, I believe, and then seconded by, uh, a new member, uh, Marsh. Um, any changes?

Hearing none, would the clerk please call the roll on the approval of those two sets of minutes? Member Martin? Yes. Member Valentine? Yes.

Member Newman? Yes. Member Marsh? Yes. Member Meucci?

Yes. Mayor Lynn? Yes. And those minutes are approved, uh, 6 to 0. Moving on, the amend— to tonight's meeting agenda.

Do I have a motion to approve the meeting agenda as presented? So moved. Second. Okay, move by Member Meucci, seconded by Member Valentine. Uh, are there any amendments to the agenda?

Okay, hearing none, would the clerk please call the roll on the agenda as presented? Mayor Lynn? Yes. Member Meucci? Yes.

Member Marsh? Yes. Member Newman? Yes. Member Valentine?

Yes. Member Martin?

The approval of tonight's agenda was approved 6-0. Moving on, we have two sets of, of ordinance tonight, uh, for public hearings. The first set of ordinances, 2026-22, an ordinance of the Petersburg Borough adjusting the fiscal year 2027 budget for known changes. Any public testimony regarding ordinance 2026-22 should be given during this public hearing. A copy of the ordinance may be found under agenda item 14A.

Would anybody like to talk to Ordinance 2026-22? Please come forward, state your name and who you represent.

My name is Molly Tybur and I'm representing the Petersburg Municipal Employee Association. Um, good evening, members of the assembly. We are requesting that you delay the final reading of the ordinance 2026-22. Borough administrative staff is to send us a copy of their last, best, and final offer so we can take this into our membership for a vote. PMEA has been bargaining in good faith.

We do not feel one side should be able to force anything on the other and call it an agreement. To prevent yet another adjustment of the budget, wait until membership has voted upon the wages. If it passes, continue with the reading. If it does not, then the PMEA and admin negotiation teams, along with the direction of the assembly, need to discuss our next steps. Implementing fair and equitable wages is critical now.

The past summer alone, we lost experienced— 8 experienced employees in just 30 days. Several of these key roles are still vacant.

We hear talk about deciding which services to cut, but neither this assembly nor the public will get to decide. Our empty positions are already forcing those cuts every day. Today, one cannot walk in and get a building permit review. The library is closed for a week due to limited staffing. Who is expected to implement the most recent decisions about a data moratorium?

And zoning map changes or additions to Title 19. Both police and dispatch have not had a job applicant in close to 1 year. At Mountain View Manor, we are in a constant cycle of hiring just to keep essential resident support staffed. Our street crew is not running at full staff with winter right around the corner. I could go on, but the point is clear.

Without adequate wages to retain current staff, We simply don't know what service will be unavailable next week. Please delay this reading, respect the collective bargaining process, and work with us towards a fair agreement. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Is there anybody else who would like to talk to Ordinance 2026-22?

Okay, hearing Please come forward, state your name and who you represent, and you have 5 minutes. Thank you. Hello, I am Zane Browning and I represent myself. This is not the kind of thing that I tend to do with my time if I do not have a reason. I'm not very argumentative and I'm even less confrontational.

In fact, I did not even intend to speak tonight. However, I feel that in light of current events, I should stand with the people that I've grown to care about. I've been an employee of the borough's wastewater department for just over a year. I've had very little experience, experience before my date of hire, and yet I have gotten licenses and certifications that I believe will help me to serve this community and to build a career for myself here. Uh, it is important to me to provide quality service to this city, but it is also important that I am able to provide for the family that I intend to have in this community.

Likewise, it is important for me that the people that I've grown to know and respect in this community continue to make enough money that living here remains feasible. These people are experienced and integral to the systems that keep our city running, and still they have stayed with Petersburg despite the severe increase in pay that working elsewhere would offer. During these negotiations, I've heard from our negotiation team at various steps in the process. Throughout this process, like most negotiations, there have been few total agreements. However, one thing that I believe is very important during negotiations is bargaining in good faith.

While there are many things that go into bargaining in good faith, I believe that one of them is reaching an agreement in whatever capacity that may be. Our negotiations led to mediations. Those led to a sort of stagnation where, to my knowledge, the borough was unwilling to accept the offer. And now, instead of what I believe to be the proper channel, which would be arbitration, the borough has opted to force the contract that they prefer. And this, I believe, is not in good faith.

Myself and others that I have conversed with upon hearing this information asked such questions as, is that legal? I believe that an action that prompts these sort of questions cannot be said to be in good faith. During the hearing on the radio, it was broadcasted that upon being asked if we were moving to arbitration, or rather when it was supposed that we were, our borough manager said, and I'm paraphrasing as I do not have the con— the transcript. We are not required to go to arbitration. I believe that bargaining in good faith does not just mean fulfilling requirements, but instead listening and considering both sides.

Our negotiation team brought a considerable amount of data and evidence to their arguments. I'm not certain if any data was brought as a counterpoint by the borough. If so, I am unaware of any. While I have not been able to read an entire copy of the proposed contract, I am prepared to vote on it when one is provided to me.

Thank you for your testimony. Is there anybody else that would like to talk to Ordinance 2026-22?

Okay, seeing or hearing none, I'm going to move on to the next ordinance, Ordinance 2026-23, an ordinance amending Sections 3.76.020 of the Petersburg Borough Municipal Code to add the land manager as an administrative officer. Any testimony regarding Ordinance 2026-23 should be given during this public hearing. Copy of Ordinance 2026-23 may be found under agenda item 14B. Is there anybody that would like to talk to Ordinance 2026-23?

Hearing and seeing none, I'm going to close that hearing and I'm going to move on. There are no bid awards tonight. And I'll move on then to person to be heard related to today's agenda. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to talk to items related to today's agenda? Please come forward, state your name and who you represent, and again, you have 5 minutes.

Thank you. My name is Daniel Byrd. I'm the Cardin Fire Chief, and I'm here to talk about the Skow Bay Fire. Prop that is on the agenda later tonight. It was probably 2 years ago, had a meeting with Steve, Liz, Glo, Aaron, and myself, and we talked about this to where we needed to move the training props off Skow Bay property so they could do the sewer work or whatever was going to have to happen for this harbor expansion part.

We said, okay, fine. In, then we were told we could put the props back at Skow Bay where they originally are right now because the city doesn't have any money to buy a piece of land or move them someplace and give us a permanent training facility. And I think it was about in June, I hear that all of a sudden that, uh, we have to move them as we agreed to, you know, to do the site work. But now they cannot go back to Skow Bay. They can— we need to find us a separate home, and they're going to go in storage until such a time that we can find this.

And the city has no prior planning to make this happen, so this is just kind of out of the blue. And I asked Steve why this is, and he didn't have an answer for me. He said this was being pushed by the mayor, and he didn't have a reason as to why that was. So I'm hoping I'm going to get an explanation of why this is tonight. I hear comments from other people about the— oh, the permit, the Army Corps permit only requires that the land use where the property is now can only be marine-related, and the training props aren't marine-related.

So in that same context, the fire station there is not marine-related, so now that's going to have to be moved. And that— we can't just take that building, move it someplace else, because it needs to be brought up to current code, and that's going to be millions of dollars for the city to move the current fire station off of Skarvik property and find a new home.

And at the meeting a couple years ago, Steve said, you know, well, let's just start, you know, pre-planning for the future, you know, get me your needs and wants for the CAPSIS list. And we've kind of done that, and we had Murph design some numbers for a property out at Cabin Creek there, and it came back into where it's about $1.3 million or something like for to put the training station out there to move everything out there. The city doesn't have the money to do all the rock work and pay for that, you know, so it's gonna have to go on a capital grants project or something down the road. And I'm not sure why also now we can't put it back, because I know the city doesn't have any money to do this. So I just don't see the logic in moving it out of there and not being able to put it back.

At that spot for right now until such a time down the road that the city can acquire the proper funding to give us a proper training facility. You know, because we got to tear down the tower out there, and there's no guarantee that the tower is going to be able to be reassembled after the site work is done. So I'm guessing that we're going to lose our training tower out there, and the replacement cost is about $400,000 to $600,000 for new training facility. So this is going to have to go on a, on a capital project list. And we've had these requests into the city in years past, you know, when different managers were in the assembly, in different assemblies.

It always seems like there was something more important to the assembly at the time than to get us our training facility. Something always came up. We need a new generator for the substation, or the school needs a new roof or something. So we always keep getting kicked off the list.

And I have people ask me about the ISO ratings, and I believe Aaron can talk to this a little bit better, but I believe if we move the training facility and it doesn't go back within a 12-month period, uh, the ISO ratings are going to increase, and that's going to cause everybody's insurance to go up 10% if we don't get this put back within a 12-month period. So I encourage you guys to try to figure this out for us so we can go forward on this and get us our training facility back, because it's desperately needed for the community and the fire department. Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Is there anybody else that would like to talk to items related to tonight's agenda? Please come forward, state your name and who you represent.

I am David Berg. I'm one of the assistant fire chiefs for the volunteer fire department.

And to build upon what Dan has talked about, our fire chief, we, you know, unfortunately the move to combine props into the Station 1 build was not done at the time we built the fire station, you know, in 2011. There was money left over from that. Unfortunately, it was redirected to other borough projects at the time. So we've looked at other locations and, and, and our— and the staff determined the price tag could be over $1 million for the new training tower and site improvements, as you'll see in Aaron's presentation later on. Less, less expensive options may exist, and we're certainly willing to look at those.

The importance of training facilities has been well documented by our emergency services manager. We need to have a 3-story structure that matches the maximum height of the present building codes in Petersburg. We need to be able to throw ladders and tall ladders and practice the various techniques of lowering occupants and down firefighters from compromised buildings. And we can't do this anywhere, as there would be damage to a building that's not designed to train on. Having a building that can be filled with smoke is vitally important to the training of new personnel and a refresher for firefighters that fortunately don't have to respond to these conditions except when we have the occasional fire.

Searches of smoke-filled buildings and ladder operations actually happen in real life. We had one just last week. Our, our, and our volunteers need to be trained in accordance with national fire safety standards for the dangerous work that what they're called upon to do.

Um, we've got to find a solution to this training dilemma, and hopefully the sooner the better. Perhaps available funds could be borrowed from another department of the, of the Bureau. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony, Dave. Is there anybody else that would like to talk to items related to tonight's agenda?

Please come forward, state your name and who you represent.

My name is Kirsten Dupree, and I'm representing myself, and I just wanted to speak to the same thing as the volunteer fire department. They provide an essential service to our community, and I would imagine that everybody else in the borough probably goes through training for their jobs. And it's all provided. And the power plant, I mean, everybody, I'm sure they have to have special training and they keep their training up. So this is essential for these volunteers.

They're not getting paid. They're taking time out of their day, out of their life, from their families to do this for all of us. They've all touched on the, the cost.

I just think that It's ridiculous that they're going to have to move this and not be able to keep it there until there is funding to do something closer to their Station 1 in town. It's, it's for their safety as well as ours, and that's important too. They need to be protected, and they're only going to get it when they train. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.

Anybody else like to talk to items related to tonight's agenda?

Hi, my name is Becky Knight. Uh, what I have to say tonight is not intended to cast dispersions on anyone, but rather to try and force some sunlight on issues of serious community concern. Coincidentally, they all involve big tech. In particular, there's been a palpable sense of frustration among Petersburg residents with the borough's need for transparency that first began with the status of wireless communication facility development. That frustration has bled over with the need for, for regular, more than superficial proposed data center updates and how data center development relates to be municipal power capacity to meet public demands.

This is whether or not the previously proposed Greenspark project has withered and could be replaced with a completely different model. Yet another issue has emerged regarding the July 11 ransomware attack. The need for public information regarding that was paramount. I note that the borough very recently posted a public notice about the incident buried under, under their news tab. When was this posted?

Such notice should appear in a newspaper of record, on the radio, and at the post office at the earliest opportunity. For me, the first public notice was through reading tonight's agenda, which appeared and then disappeared a few days ago and then magically reappeared yesterday. In fact, it was apparent that something was amiss weeks ago, judging by oblique references by by insiders to problems with borough emails and how public communications to the assembly were unable to be read in less than a timely manner. The public deserves the right to be informed earlier rather than later about this matter of serious public concern. Although the borough just asserted that bank and credit card data was not compromised, they advised that other personal identifies may have been.

Now it's the responsibility of individual citizens to employ options to ensure possible impacts from data leaks have not occurred. Moreover, on-the-record public correspondence, including in-person visitor views during assembly meetings, have been filled with questions deserving of honest answers. Although courteous, they have only been met with thank you for your testimony Period. Full stop. An obvious and perfect remedy to this situation would be to include responses to those questions either during the specific agenda item or at the end of the assembly meeting during assembly discussion items.

While it may make for a longer meeting, such attention to matters important to the public would build much greater public trust. On another note, on top of the need for more public transparency, news media covered the recent power outage using phrases and descriptors in the story like, quote, SEPA experienced a system-wide outage, quote, we didn't have a lot of extra generation capacity, quote, staff faced a number of mechanical issues and capacity constraints, quote, electrical demand exceeded our available diesel generating capacity, quote, the ability to stabilize the electrical system and restore power to the community, and so on. I appreciate the honesty in the news piece. These stark reminders of the fragility of our power grid doesn't do much to instill confidence that we can meet current electrical demands, much less have room for expanded demands of proposed and in-progress major projects. For instance, the data— number one, the data center project, which I think figures is simply a foot in the door.

Number 2, 60 soon-to-be-developed home sites. That's 20 in the Tlingit Haida subdivision and 40 in the Skylark subdivision, and probably more, plus a few more in the development stage, stage with a projected need for 300 more. Number 3, Alaska Timber and Trust soon-to-be connection to our power grid. Number 4, the new hospital power demands. And number 5, the demands for the Skow Bay Marine Facility.

All with new increased demands and which don't take into account the needs for Wrangell. I anticipate the assertion that every— that there will be an assertion that everything's okay because SEPA construction is underway at Tai'i to accommodate a third turbine. It seems imperative that a hard data report be made available that addresses projected needs rather than verbal assurances. Perhaps one's available. Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Anybody else like to talk to items related to tonight's agenda?

Uh, clerk, is there anybody on Zoom? There is no one with your hand up.

Hey, thank you. If there isn't, um, I'm going to move on to items unrelated to tonight's agenda. Is there anybody would like to talk to items on unrelated to tonight's agenda. Please come forward, state your name and who you represent.

I'm not seeing— again, and is there anybody on Zoom that would—. No, there's no one on Zoom. Okay, thank you. There tonight, there are no boards, commission, committee reports. Under the consent agenda, we have one item, and that's, um, PAH LLC DBA The Trees General Store and RV Park, package store, liquor License renewal.

PAH LLC DBA The Trees General Store and RV Park has applied for alcohol and marijuana control office to renew their package store license. MCOA has determined the application to be complete. Local governing body may protest the renewal within 60 days of the notice of filing the application. The renewal notice is attached to this agenda item. Do I have a motion to approve The renewal of the Tree's General Store package store liquor license.

So moved. Second. Move by, by Member Meechie, seconded by Member March. Any discussion?

Would the clerk please call the roll on this consent item? Member Meechie? Yes. Mayor Lynn? Yes.

Member March? Yes. Member Martin. Yes. Member Valentine.

Yes. Member Newman.

Yes. The renewal of that license is approved 6 to 0. With that, I'm going to move on to report of other officers. Um, with that, tonight we have— I think that Director Hankins has a presentation that he would like to make, and I've seen it before. He's done an excellent job on this.

Thank you. Go ahead, it's all yours. Um, Aaron Hankins, Emergency Services Director. Um, do you have that attached to you? Yeah, would you like to, uh, throw it up on the screen?

Oh, okay, sure. Yeah, it'll just take me a minute to find that and get it up on the screen here. Um, while that goes on, um, so as if everyone's having a chance to read, um, that report. What we're really asking for now is we need to source a spot for those to go. In my presentation, I have two options.

I mean, certainly the assembly is free to choose a third option if you guys find something that you think is more adequate. Now we can work on that. Um, and then, uh, how we're going to actually fund setting it back up. The borough does not have a lot of land that is not already being used, that is filled in and suitable to drive heavy equipment on. And so the— it's going to be expensive.

You have to go in and you have to fill Muskeg. Alternatively, finding other sites that are privately held that are suitable can also be expensive because people are going to want top dollar knowing what you're asking for.

So, there are some grants that you can apply for to try and fund that. Most of them are coming from the federal side of things. A lot of the grants that the fire department customarily uses, the Assistance to Firefighters Grant, the SAFER Grant, and some of the other FEMA grants are not necessarily eligible for this expenditure simply because they don't do capital projects.

In the case of Assistance to Firefighters Grant, they will do some like vehicle purchases, but they are far and few between and very, very highly competitive across the nation. So my confidence in that we'd be able to successfully get one of those grants to pay for it is not, not high. Um, that said, putting it on the CAPSES list, potentially with a new governor getting in there, that, you know, could be an option. Um, more likely, I think the best chance of getting something would be through the CDS request through Murkowski or another senator's office. So, um, with that, um, you know, what is our training facility?

Simply, this is where we teach people how to be firefighters. We accept all kinds of firefighters, or all kinds of volunteers into our program, and we need to teach them the ins and outs of being a firefighter, and part of that is a requirement from the state of Alaska to do it in an environment that's called immediately hazardous to life.

We use those simulations to help, you know, determine, okay, this is what you're actually gonna be in, you know, practice, You know, train how you wanna operate kind of thing.

6:30. Train how you wanna operate, et cetera. Currently we have the burn tower. If you go to the next slide, Becky.

So this is the current burn tower. It is a 3-story tower that has an attached burn room available to it. And when I got in the department in October of '22, when I started running things, it did need some maintenance to get back into operation. In the 2024-'25 budget, the borough had allocated some money to replace some of the floor joists in there, 'cause after 30 years of burning, it had affected some of the floors. So we're just making it safe to operate in.

About the time that I started doing this work is when we got notice, need to move. So we've halted that.

They used to burn large fires in this spot right here and let it bend up all the way through. We don't do big burn fires anymore simply because it's too much and it's too hard on the equipment. We usually use burn barrels in order to generate that same level of smoke without the necessarily the heat involved. So it's not as hard on the equipment trying to, make it last because this is expensive.

Included in my report, there was the replacement costs if we didn't use the containers, we didn't use the burn tower, we went with a new commercially available fire prop.

The cost for that building in the crate shipped to Petersburg, I think, came in somewhere around $570,000. That is not included in any of the figures that you'll see later on. Becky, can you go to the next slide, please? So this is a container prop, whereas the borough, the then city had got together and they came up with the $80,000 purchase for the burn tower. The volunteers purchased these containers and themselves had started outfitting these in order to operate in.

We try and keep this as a dry prop and not spray water in it. We have sheetrock hanging in it things like that so we can simulate actually breaking walls, doing salvage and overhaul, you know, search operations, that type of thing. Primarily we're using a smoke machine, but we had an issue with the smoke machine not too long ago, so we were also again using burn barrels, piping smoke inside of. If you were to go around the side of the building as it is currently, you'll see that set up there. Works, but we got a new smoke machine, so.

It's working. The inside of this container is made to look like a house. We have pieces of plywood in there and we can shift around and create walls and things, so then you can simulate different environments.

Next slide. So, of things that are practiced here, I tried to give a description of what that stuff is. I won't go through every each line item, but if you guys have questions on any of these, I'm happy to answer. A lot of this has to do with being the actual using of the tools, forcing doors, searching in smoke, ventilating, rescuing down firefighters, rescuing down persons or animals lost in an on-fire structure. Next slide, Becky.

And here's some of that other stuff that we're doing. Again, this isn't stuff that you want to do in, you know, no business is just going to let you just do this in their facility simply because it does tear up the building and we don't want to be on the hook for that. That said, when we do work with businesses, some of our other drills that we're doing, we're actually doing walkthroughs. We're learning their fire systems, their exits, the general layout of the building as well as where they keep any hazardous materials. All this is done in a pretty condensed timeline.

The firefighters meet 3 times a month specifically for fire drill, and that's outside any special training or our recruit class that we put on. Next slide, Becky.

So for that training schedule, they train on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th of every Thursday of the month. They typically, depending on how the holidays fall out, fall, have 34 to 36 regularly scheduled drills. This is again outside of any special drills that they have that they'll do on Saturdays or with our recruitment class.

So, and down here you can see some of the other stuff they're doing either at the dump for working on junk cars or down at the harbors working on marine response or doing joint ops with DOT.

So, next slide.

So May 5th, 2025, the Borough Assembly voted to approve Ordinance 2025-04, the Marine Industrial Overlay. This is what I'm told was the set in stone. This will be used for marine use only. This was done in conjunction with the Army Corps permit that was authorized, and with those two, the Borough came to an agreement with the feds that they're only gonna use this land for certain things. Due to the above, I was directed by the borough manager to start looking into other options.

Next slide.

So what we're really looking for is we need a 200 by 200-foot pad to put stuff on. We need to be able to drive trucks around it. If you do this on any sort of side road or anything, we don't want to leave the trucks blocking the road. Especially if we have any— we have a hydrant across the street and we're stretching across, then it just blocks traffic, or we can't flow water, which is why we're asking for at least one hydrant hooked to a water main so placed so that we're not blocking anything.

Because the size of that pad, it is bigger than 0.5 an acre according to the Army Corps, any disturbance over half an acre requires special drainage, which is this oil-water separator here.

So that's a cost. And then if not placed next to a fire station, we're asking for a small building where one, we can use the bathroom, wipe up, get all the smoke and soot off of us before we get back in the trucks, carry it back. A lot of that stuff has carcinogens in it. That builds up over time. It's a big deal in the fire service.

That's the fire service as a whole is trying to combat. So there's that, as well as we want some storage so then we're not constantly spending all of our training time, which is only 2 hours, 3 times a month, moving stuff back and forth. We're asking for lighting. And currently we're trying to save the burn tower and the container prop simply for cost. Again, to get that new building was not included in these figures.

This is the actual figure that I was getting from commercial contractors for something comparable, and that's before it's even put together. So I would anticipate it being closer to $650,000 to construct the building, pour the concrete for the footing and all that, which just makes it that much more expensive and that much harder on the borough, which I don't— I do not— or I sympathize with you guys on because there are many borough budget items affecting the borough right now, and this is just yet one more thing. But so we're trying to keep costs down wherever we can. Next slide, please. So this is what's My current costs for moving the equipment, D&D has started.

They had one of their head guy that was overseeing the projects, he had to leave on a family emergency, so progress has stopped, but I've been assured that it will continue again before Halloween, so we can continue to disassemble the building and get it into storage. AML, for the truck and chassis to, move the containers into Skow Bay, 130 an hour, about $220 for the Nordic Crane service. This is a red crane truck in town. And we got some help from Public Works, were able to go in and lay down some gravel for the 14th Street pole yard in anticipation of getting Everything moved over there so we had good firm ground to put it on. We weren't just letting it sink in the mud.

So this is my—. What I know now. I am keeping track of what we are spending so then I can report on that once the move is actually done.

So the two current sites that we're looking at is either adjacent to Station 1 on 1200 Haugen, downhill, from the station going towards 8th Street, and then 14th Street adjacent to the tree dump, kind of wedged in between the tree dump and where the, the walking trail ends.

They both have sewer and water mains available within 600 feet of both sites. Me and actually Assistant Chief Berg, we borrowed a soil probe from one of the local surveyors and probed the muskeg and found an average depth of about 8 feet.

Other sites have been reviewed. We actually included in the attachments to this report was a set of plans that was done for the old ski hill at the base of the dump hill, as some of that was referred to in earlier testimony. The problem with that site is it was not immediately close to any utilities, and the utility extension alone was like close to, I think it was $800,000 just for the utility extension, which means, okay, there's probably better sites.

So, next slide, please. So, I tried to get contractor estimates on what it would take to get those sites, to bring those sites online. They'd only give me rough numbers. Nobody really wanted to put a lot of effort into it unless there was a guarantee that they were going to get the work. The— some of the communications I've had, or the chief has had, with those contractors has been included in the attachments.

And then there's that— again, that bit about the USA permit.

So local contractor estimates, along with Horine Associates, were telling me they were expecting about $30 a yard for the excavation of Muskeg.

P&D contacted me about some of the sewer runs coming from Station 2 as part of the Skow Bay development that's going on out there and asked me some questions. During the— while I was out there, I asked him what he was thinking as far as cost removal, and he told me that he starts his estimates at $50 a yard. So you'll see in the numbers here that I graded range based on those. So where we actually end up, I mean, really depends on the market. Next slide.

So this is Station 1. Over here we looked at— I don't actually have a mapping tool. This is the property viewer. A lot of people probably recognize it. I did my best to try and measure, and this is about what it would take up.

But anything hard and definitive that you would be— you'd use for submission to a grant or anything like that would require a surveyor actually go and look at it.

We initially had thought it would be easier to come off the Haugen Drive on a separate driveway. In talking to some of the local contractors, they believe they can make a ramp off the existing pad and do it for cheaper, and then we don't have to mess with the trying to get a driveway permit from DOT, and we don't have to mess with a trail. There is a sewer main that goes along this side of the road, along with the water main, so we don't have to burrow under the street or anything like that. So we have access to water for this site right here. We're mainly looking at just running water to it.

We don't need sewer because we have the bathroom and cleanup facilities there in the station. Next slide, Becky. So again, some of that stuff that I was speaking on, we did receive FFA approval to put that in there. I did get a response from DOT since I have submitted this report. They have said that they're okay with it.

They were not willing to write a letter of no objection though, stating it wasn't needed. They simply said that They would prefer if we are doing any burning out there that we give them advance notice, which is no problem because we know when we're going to do it, in case there's a need to file a NOTAM for incoming aircraft.

So there is an adjacent, if you go back up to the next slide, Becky, or the previous slide, sorry, my bad, with the map.

Over in this area here, this tree line, if you look on the property viewer, you will see an adjacent subdivided parcel also owned by the borough that is designated wetlands set aside from when Station 1 was created, as told me by the community development director. Um, it's not— won't affect anything. We just can't build in there because we promise because we built the station there, we're not going to destroy all of the wetlands in the area. But that oil-water separator would be required. Go down 2 slides, please.

So again, you can see some of the cost here. Some of these I ripped directly from the plans that were done at, from Horion Associates.

The plans that they created for that piece of property is much similar to what we would do here. The reason we want the perimeter fencing, for example, is we don't want people sleeping out of there. We do have some transient homeless populations, and with all the stuff that we burn in there, we don't want any claims of someone getting hurt or getting a disease or something from, rolling in whatever we're burning. Light self-draining hydrants, you know, some of these are going to be the same no matter what spot you pick.

Mainly what kind of the difference between this and the 14th Street was is really the cost of the building. So go ahead and scroll down, Becky.

So this is 14th Street.

I mean, similar thing, access right off 14th Street. There is a sewer and water main that ends where at the intersection of Koenig Lane and 14th Street. Similar property, same depths. Go ahead and scroll down, Becky.

So we can— one of the main things is, is when we're building this, we cannot cut off access to the wastewater plant because they need to be able to do their operations there.

Um, the boardwalk kind of shifts off the right-of-way into that property, so I was asked to look into the cost of moving that. And again, when I was talking to contractors, they weren't necessarily willing to dive into it without, um, you know, an actual commitment that we were going to do the work.

One thing that we're asking for in this is that modular building that has bathrooms and storage spot to meet because we don't have a station adjacent. So we can go out there and stay out there and not have to do any back and forth, especially— and this is especially important if we're doing our recruitment class because that can— that transfer time between getting there setting up for the exercise, taking it down, and then leaving. If you are interrupting that by doing a lot of back and forth, I mean, it just eats a lot of time and just travel. Um, one thing that we are concerned of is, I mean, it's really close to residential, and so if there's any expansion of, um, the neighborhoods in that area, you could end up with a scenario similar to, you know, some of the other property issues that have been coming up lately where you end up with kind of an industrial use up against residential. Next slide.

So again, here's some of the costs. You'll see that for the most part, I mean, everything's the same except for the modular building. That's the prices that I was able to find online. Modular building, essentially just like a construction trailer, the mobile trailers they use for job sites and such, are— that's the difference in cost. This bit here on both one, when you see the— for the additional rock, if for some reason the contractor is unwilling or unable to provide the rock ourselves, the borough does have its own quarry.

I've been told that in order to get more rock for it with all the projects that are going on, they probably need to re-blast the floor. Aaron Marohl or Thomas Rimmel from Public Works can probably speak on that more. But the last time they did it, their cost was about $77,000 to have, I believe it was Reed's, do it. Yeah. So the benefit of that, if you do go that route, is it would create a lot more rock than we'd need for this project.

For the future. So next slide.

So, and then all the attachments, um, I tried to write out what they were and that's what I got. So, um, James, remember Valentine? Okay, thank you, very informative. I, uh, very good to see. Um, so I have, it's, I have a lot of questions kind of around the room to ask in order to kind of get to where I'm going with this.

So, um, if we have to spend $1 million, does this have to go to the voters? That's my first question.

The manager, through the mayor. Um, no, because this is basically adding something. It's not selling anything, right? We'd be— and the assembly is allowed to spend money You'd have to vote on it, you know, there's no question about that. And answering some of the questions that, you know, others have brought up, yeah, the plan would be to go to both the state and the federal delegations to see if we can get money through the capital project process.

So, um, thank you. Uh, to continue off this, I believe that most people in town would agree that the volunteer fire department is a very important piece to this town.

Much like anything else. This is— and I look at this number, you know, $1.1 million, that is chump change compared to some of the numbers that we've been talking about for so many projects coming up that are going to these big capital lists, right? And to me, if the community wants this, which, yeah, I mean, they kind of— I mean, it sounds like there are people talking about it that they agree that this is something that the community wants as well. I don't see why another part to this is kind of annoys me is that we just recently just lost money too from the senior sales tax exemption going away. Our sales tax is not going up, so we don't have money in the borough coming in that's generating enough money to really be able to throw it at you.

But I still think that we do need to do this because it's very important. I think site number 1 makes the most sense, and it's— everything's just going to continue getting more expensive the longer. If we put it on this capital list, it's going to get shoved of down, and it's going to be 5 years from now before I'm out of this position, or maybe I'm here, I don't know, another assembly has to go through this whole thing again. There's a couple things I don't see why we shouldn't just tackle this now and just maybe we do a loan. 1 Point, and let's say add 20% to it.

Let's say $1.3 million is to the community for something that's for the community, that's important to the community. I think that we should just go that route, get it done, get it done now. And I'm like, now I'm like, you know, fired up about it because I've heard this before. We've talked about it before. We have to move it.

We can't move it over here. Maybe we can have other department heads fill in so that we can all be a team and get this done because I just see this going on a capital projects list and just getting kicked down just the can for years to come. And then it'll go into the abyss. And then this number, 1 point— and I'm adding 20% just in my head, so it'd be 1.3— is just going to now become 3 million in 6 months, you know. So I think it's really important.

I think we should do it. And another thing to note, as a younger individual in this town, many younger people in this town need some other part in this community to go to. As an example, people go and play pickleball and basketball. That's their community. That's the thing that drives them to go out, and it's great.

For some people in this community that are younger like me, we have families, we're stressed, we're tired. Maybe being a volunteer fire department with a new— maybe not so new, but a new pad and everything's there— maybe more volunteers will come out. Volunteerism is going down within my age group, right? Maybe this bumps it up. It's the thing that makes them feel like they're part of the community more.

It's like having another outlet for younger generation like myself to be a part of the community. Like, people go to church, people go to the gym, people attend, um, you name what sub little community within the, uh, around here. Anyways, I'm going on so many tangents, but I think that we should get this done. And I'm with you. I, I think we should probably get a loan, probably out because 1.3 seems like nothing to me.

And I think the library's coming almost done being paid. So we're always going to be tight no matter what. Moving forward in the borough, we're always going to be tight. So let's be tight. And this is an investment, not just a thing, a need.

This is going to invest for the future and is going to be good. Sorry, I'm done. Thank you.

Any other members have questions? I do. Okay, Member Marshall. Thank you, Director Hankins, for that information. Um, one of the prospects that I had not considered that Captain Byrd brought up is just moving it temporarily and then setting it back, but we— you cannot do that because of the marine overlay.

Is that the constriction there? Um, in conjunction with what was filed with the federal permits with the Army Corps of Engineers is what I'm told. So essentially the borough, with the creation of the marine overlay, as I understand it, borough said, hey, we're only going to use this for marine purposes, and then that was incorporated in the Army Corps permit, so it's incorporated in the projects, and that kind of laid that ground as I understand it. Maybe Steve can Expand if I could. Um, I think we should verify that.

My— I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying, you know, it's worthwhile for us to check into that. I, I would agree that would— it does make sense. And I suppose it could even be construed that the fire department and its firefighting training for the volunteers is crucial to the Marine That's what I was—. Where I was headed with that. How many times have you guys been called down to the harbor to put fires out on boats and such?

So to me, there is a strong overlap where that could happen. And yeah, I would, I would encourage that possibility to be investigated. And I don't know what cost savings would be generated. I think there would still be a cost to move the equipment to get it back. Sounds like you need a new training tower anyway because this one cannot be.

Reconstructed? Well, so it was originally built in 1993, I think. I added in the slides. But yeah, it's showing its age. Like anything that's that old, you start taking stuff apart, there's always question, okay, I take it apart, did I just make a, you know, a big mess of the puzzle, or will it actually go back together?

For example, I was doing the floor joists with help from building maintenance, and we actually ended up having to cut a lot of bolts, you know, and stuff to get the floor out and replace the first floor, which is where I stopped when I got told, okay, we might have to move, because I had stuff to do the second floor as well. And the— there was a lot of cutting and a lot of retrofitting of stuff. We're able to get it back together, but it just was more than just simply undo a few bolts and put it back together. So it's involved, unfortunately.

Member Newman, uh, just a, I guess, a question in my mind is, um, this is just a training tower. The structure itself where the pumper truck is parked, that's going to, that's going to stay there. And, and so as long as the pumper truck is still there, it doesn't affect the ISO rating Is that correct? Through the mayor, um, I'll say this very out loud and on the record. I've not been told by anyone that the fire station itself has to leave.

That doesn't mean that we wouldn't— we wouldn't love to put it in a different location away from the, you know, but we don't have the money for that, and it's not a requirement. On the training materials, the biggest concern that I had heard, and Aaron's information is more up to date, sounds like, than mine, was there was some concern that when we start doing burn barrels and things like that and you got people working on boats, that the— necessarily they may not go well together. So it's, it's really a twofold question. Is, is that an issue for people that would be located there if there was smoke flying around? I don't know the answer to that.

I mean, um, Aaron would probably know more so than I would. And then we can ask the issue about, you know, the marine overlay. I would think the borough would have the ability to get a variance on that if need be, but we'll ask. But yeah, so even with the marine overlay, the station itself will stay there and the fire department will have use of them and the pumper truck will stay there and it will not affect the ISO rating. As far as affecting the ISO rating.

So I do have correspondence with ISO that says that removal of the training facility itself and not reestablishing it would drop us by like 0.37 points. So not quite a full point, but just that by itself is enough to drop us into the next category because we're just got our toes into Class 4. For quick primer on ISO, it's a rating 1 through 10. We are a Class 4 community, so, and we're just over the line. Any effect in our current operations without supplementing it with something else would be enough to push us to Class 5.

Each jump in class equates to about a 10% raise in property insurance rates. Now, that said, there is some pushback from that from Petersburg Wrangle Insurance. Not every insurance company uses ISO rating to determine their risk factors and their costs of their coverage. It's still very much used, especially down in the lower 48. To the question of what suppliers, you know, really depends on your insurance company whether or not they'll take that into account.

So that is the best information that I have. Um, we can request them to do another study and confirm that if you want, but that is— it's up to you guys. How often do they do an ISO? Every 5 years. Um, they— last time they were here, um, last time they physically came here, um, I was not working on the job when they came here, but the last report came out in, uh, 2025.

Than they are on a 5-year schedule.

Okay, Member Meehan. Yeah, just, you know, I have a few, and I just— can you talk about the ISO rating now? So you talked about a window. So if we take those training props and we pile them up on 14th Street and we leave them there for a period of time, does that affect the ISO rating if we're not able to train in those Is there a window that they have to move from that spot to another spot so that they're—. There is not a hard limit, no.

It's really kind of when the ISRON kind of looks back at us and like, are you doing what we were doing when we made our report in 2025, or did something change? And if something changed, then they reevaluate and they make that determination. And so on those slides that you put forward there, you had one that said known cost to move the existing equipment into storage, and that was about $12,000 to $14,000. This is my current—. Sure.

And so if these do get moved into storage, are you suggesting that we get a 16 by 40 modular building to go there to store stuff? I'm sorry, do you—. Well, you were talking about a 16 by 40 modular building that was going to go on that 14th Street. Yeah, so right now when we say the stuff is going into storage at 14th Street, that is at the pole yard itself. It is literally getting put in the back of the compounds and stuff will get put in front of it, um, and we will not have access to it until a permanent location is made.

And so for the development of the 14th Street, um, facility, if that's what we end up going with, we are asking for the addition of a, um, um, whatever it was, 16 by 40 modular building to accompany that site when it's all put back together so that we have off-site facilities. Um, you know, and so right now, are your marching orders to just move those things there and put them in storage on 14th Street? Currently, right now, we are trying to get stuff out of there because we're trying to meet that November 30 deadline when the, um, um, whoever's running the project turns it over to a bidder for the contract and they can start doing their thing. We're in the same boat as a lot of leaseholders that are in that area. They— that's also their time to be out of there.

And then as far as where we can go, this is kind of where we're at right now, is I'm asking the assembly to help make a decision on where they would like to see these things go, so then I can continue with plan making to that end. Well, there's, there really is no question about where they're going to go right now. Right now they're going to the 14th Street pole yard and they're stacked up and I mean, that's the only place they can go, correct, for storage. And so, you know, for me, it just makes sense to, you know, I would love to see them up next to Fire Station 1 up there. I mean, I think that's the natural place for them to go.

I mean, I think, you know, we've been kicking this thing around since the spring, since May, and, you know, I'm not saying what happened was wrong, whatever, but, you know, there was consensus up here to kind of move this thing forward and get this this thing up to the fire hall. And now the direction is going down to the tree dump yard. And for me, I would like to, if that's what we're gonna do, then let's do that for a short term and move 'em back out there. I mean, that's our property out there. And if it's not in the way and we need a space for volunteer firefighters to train, it doesn't make any sense to have them not being used.

Marine overlay or not. I mean, and we talked about at the assembly level, we talked about borrowing money from the Harbor Reserve since this is a harbor project we have going on. And I was told, and it wasn't in writing, that yeah, we could do that, we could borrow that money, but we would have to pay it back to that department with interest. And I mean, what is the purpose of having reserves if we can't use them for To me, it makes sense to get them up there, stack them on the 14th Street, get that Skow Bay area squared away, and then move them out there so the fire department has a place to train. I mean, if we put this money— if we, if we do this CAPSES thing and we ask for $1.1 million for it, we should be adding money to that CAPSES report for our emergency operation plan update that hasn't been revised since 2010.

There's $34,000 for that study that was done at the same time that gets kicked out of the budget every year. We're looking at it, we're working at a document, not to go down the rabbit hole, but here we're looking at a document that started in 2001, the City of Petersburg Disaster Response Plan. So if we're going to put money into CAPSES for a station up at, or a pad up by, uh, Fire Station 1, we should be including $34,000 for the study too, because this is all part of emergency preparedness. And for us to kind of kick this push this thing down the road, it's negligent on our part. I mean, these guys were just in those burn towers last week, and the next day, by coincidence, they were in a fire using the training they had had the day before.

I mean, talk about inter— divine intervention or something. I mean, it's just like, how does this happen? Uh, we would feel horrible if we went to a fire and something happened to a firefighter or volunteer. Because we had substandard training things. And I'm all for doing this right.

I used to be a member of the fire department, EMT, and I see how hard these guys work. And I, you know, there should be no question up here that, yeah, we support that. And we talk about supporting the fire department, but supporting the fire department means spending some money to make sure they have the basics on what they need. And I'm all for moving them to that pole yard. I'd like to see them get out there to Scow Bay so they can be operational and then, you know, get that stuff done at Fire Station 1.

I mean, it's just to me, it's kind of simple, but, you know, nothing is up here. Thank you. There's some other questions. Yeah, thanks for your report. So I was doing a little looking at the property viewer too, and it looked like maybe about 100 by 100 space that stuff set up on there now.

Currently, yes. And we get away with that 'cause we can pull our trucks, you know, into the main body of Skow Bay right now and we're not blocking anything. Big fire truck, if we do it on a side road or any undeveloped road, we try and not go near the edge 'cause we don't wanna roll a fire truck by putting it in the ditch 'cause they're very expensive and hard to replace. That said, I mean, it's just so we can get close to the building without actually taking up a big chunk of the road and having traffic go around us and accident, you know, create an accident or some untoward event with traffic trying to divert around us while we're operating at the facility. So I've always liked the Fire Station 1 idea for quite a while now, but I was just wondering if we— what we could do maybe temporarily to to site these things in a usable way.

Another thing that occurred to me is that your average home construction in a muskeg doesn't dig down to hardpan and fill right back up to muskeg level. A lot of times it's not 1-to-1. You know, they might go down to the clay and put 3 feet in, and they might have a ditch around it. Or what do you do when you come to a residential property that doesn't have a driveway that's, up to your standards? Um, usually we just take the road, so we're in the middle of the road, um, and that's fine for operating.

Um, mainly one of the main reasons we're concerned about, uh, not digging to hardpan when, uh, we create this facility is we don't anticipate on getting any more. We're hoping it's one and done, and we don't want to see large sinkholes start to develop, which creates pulling of water because we're flowing a lot of water and then have that create an erosion issue where we have to go back and try and fix it retroactively. We're hoping just to get it done right the first time. So that's the main reason for wanting to go down the hardpan. Okay, Member Newman.

So yeah, these guys are being forced to move, and I don't entirely agree with that. Um, So I think the big question for me is, yeah, why can't we take the money from the Harbor Fund, Enterprise Fund, and why do we have to pay it back? Why do we have to pay it back with interest? Why do we have to pay it back at all?

That's a manager question, I think.

The Harbor—. Is a utility fund, it does not have to pay it back, nor does it have to pay back with interest.

Um, if, if the money was taken from water, wastewater, or power and light, it would have to be paid back. But for the harbor, there's an exception in how the charter is written. So yes, the money could come out of the harbor fund and would not have to be paid back. But we also don't— I can't answer sitting here what that would do to any harbor projects that are already planned. We'd have to answer that question, but would not have to be paid back.

Actually, the assembly makes that decision.

Other questions from—. So I'm not a firefighter. I appreciate those who are. It's a dangerous job. Um, what is their preference, the Hagen Street or 14th Street for a permanent training facility?

Their preference is the 1200 Hagen site next to Station 1, just simply 'cause of distance. They usually gather at Station 1 to start their drills anyway. Like when we're going out to Skow Bay, they'll get in the trucks and they drive out there or to wherever else they're going to train. Back to what I was saying earlier for like our recruit class and stuff, You know, if you spend 25 minutes getting everyone in the trucks, getting them to the site, and then you have to set everything up, do your drill, stop early, take everything down, and transfer back to be done in 2 hours, it can eat up almost, you know, a third of your time just in travel. And so, we're hoping, you know, at least from a volunteer standpoint, we can maximize our training hours by being adjacent to the current main use station.

Member Meucci. Yeah, thank you. So what do we need to do here? Do we need to direct the city? I mean, I know it's not an action item here, but do we need to direct somebody to move them to the pole yard and figure out how to get them out to Skow Bay?

I was going to come there. Let me— I have a couple other questions here. Would the clerk please go back to the cost factor?

Session. And I have to ask the manager, when, when the fire station was built, was there any conditions put on by the state or the feds on the pads or any other items around that facility? So the only condition, and Aaron mentioned it in his report, which was the wetlands that's adjacent to that site. Other than that, no. We've not been told that we couldn't do it, and you know, Aaron did a good job checking with not just FAA but DOT as well to make sure that they were all OK with that.

And then the second part of that question is, would we have to go back for another permit to do this, or could the permit that we originally had, could that work for—. I, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, at, at some point when this project, if it moves forward, you know, we're going to need to hire somebody like Ryan Associates to do the permits and double-check is, do we need a core permit or not? Um, you know, it costs money to go through that process, so we didn't want to start spending money on it until we knew exactly what the assembly wanted done. But I mean, if this was on a future agenda for the assembly to vote on and the assembly said make it happen and use Harbor funds The first thing I'd probably do would be to talk to Alan and Susan and see if, you know, they are available to start the process because of the core permit would be my biggest thing because they have a long lead time on those.

So you see any other issues on that, uh, for either, either for delayed or no? I mean, if that's the To answer your question, no. So if the question— if the answer is to put it at Haugen next to the fire hall regardless of the other questions, then that's what the assembly needs to say so that we don't waste time screwing around with Skow Bay anymore either. I mean, we'd get the stuff moved so that they can do the construction out there, and then we would, you know, start the process of getting engineered documents.

Again, I don't know what the harbor has set up for the use of their funds, what they've got in the bank, which would be the next step as well. I would also add, from what I understand of the Skow Bay project, it's— they're anticipating like 18 months, you know, or, you know, 2 years. So, From what I understand, that's what they told the other leaseholders. And so it would probably at least then before we could be back in that facility as well, if that was the desire. So we're still looking at about a year or two of everything in storage.

So, for the mayor, just, yeah, to add to the confusion with this, um, we, we need to be very careful about interfering with the Skow Bay project. We already know bids have come in high on a lot of projects. And same goes for taking money out of the harbor, is if that may be with the money that we have to use to finish off the work, the boatyard. I don't know that, but that's been one of our concerns for a while. But wasn't another concern as part of that, if those bids come in for that higher, then we're going to have to look for alternative funds to do that?

Is that Am I correct? And that may be the Harbor Fund. That's what I thought. Yeah. Okay, then let me go— I'll come back to you, Member.

Okay, let me come back. Do we have— Aaron has in there blasting in the rock quarry, $77,000. Do we have other projects that are going on or will go on that could help pay those costs? Absolutely. We never have enough rock, it feels like.

So, you know, and by the way, that includes contractors buying it from us. So there's a— it is one of the scarce resources that we have to deal with. Could we make that a condition to rock for this? You know, that's a question. I don't even know how long it takes to get a blaster here.

I mean, you know, somebody to blast it. You know, it's, it's a complication to the project for sure, but definitely we've dealt with it before. So, and, and yes, we could use the rock in all sorts of different projects. One thing I would also add, if you actually went through and you added up all these numbers, the low-end numbers, the 77 is not included in this. If anyone's done the math, I included in my high-end if it was required.

But yeah, again, not knowing, just kind of looking in the crystal ball of potential expenses. So, um, just to clarify numbers a little bit too. See, now I'll come back to Member Meucci. Yeah, thank you. Just, I just want to clarify that, you know, since it's going to be 18 months to 2 years for anything to happen, I have no intention of suggesting that we move those training POPs back there.

I'd entertain a motion at the next meeting to have this as our number one priority for a spot for the fire training props and do what we have to do to get that place up there on top of the hill set up to move those training bands over. Yep. Before I summarize, is there any other comments, questions from the— go ahead. Well, unless anyone has any magical ideas about what to do with the props now. I think we have time to have a work session on it, uh, because we're just getting— scratching the surface about different ideas.

There are different levels of temporary too. Right now it sounds like the bull yard is, um, sloppy temporary. There may be more intentional temporary places where they could still be partially used enough to meet some requirements. I'd like to talk about all those things sometime soon, but if— none of this really affects the disassembly right now, does it?

Uh, Member Newman? Yeah, I just feel like, you know, in the planning process, you know, of the, of the Scott Newman project that, you know, somehow incorporating a plan for the crane and tower to be moved. Would be a part of it rather than just telling them, you gotta go, like, you're outta here, you figure out your own plan. Well, they don't have any money. Fire department didn't have any money.

So that puts us right back, puts the assembly in a difficult situation when that should have been incorporated into the overall plan rather than just, you know, just kick 'em out. It just doesn't seem fair. And then another aspect that, I don't think has been brought to, you know, considered is, yeah, what if it goes on a CAPSES list and it's on there for 5 years and we have a major fire event and there is a, an incident or accident where it can be proven in court that the fireman suffered a catastrophic injury because of a lack of training. So now we're open to a major liability. So this is, you know, there are consequences to our decisions.

So I'll leave it at that. So I just want to make sure I understand. Is Member Martin suggesting we have a work session between now and the next meeting to flesh this out, or what? I want to make sure I understand where you were going.

No, if— unless it would change what's going to happen right now as far as the disassembly, it doesn't have to be immediately, but I would like to have one soon. I haven't heard any other ideas other than that those places have to move from Skow Bay. Maybe that is— maybe they could stay. I don't know. We don't have anyone here to really advise us on the whole I had heard, um, when they talked about 13 Marine moving, that we're going to get an extra 18 inches of fill.

But as you get over towards the little fire hall there, it's like, well, are they going to have— is it going to be down in an 18-inch hole? I mean, obviously they're not gonna have a big overfill right next to that. So we, we need to talk about every, every option. Maybe the sooner the better.

So just so I understand, I'm just trying to figure out, can we put this on— I mean, would you be— is it okay to put this on the next agenda to make a decision about? I'm willing to. That's exactly where I'm headed. Thank you, Member Meucci. Thank you.

Let's, um, and then would the clerk please put a decision on here to move, permanently move the training facility from Scow Bay to to, to near the fire hall. And then can we— probably can't do it by next time, but can we also then get the manager to look at different funding options? And maybe even— I'm not saying that we have to do it right now. I mean that we have to have all the cash right now, but different options, different that we can take a look at in terms that Maybe part of it done now, maybe part of it done in a year, maybe part of it put on a grant, you know, this, but to allow— and, and probably Director Hankins would be a good one to look at grants and this type of thing, but it wouldn't have to be— that wouldn't have to be next meeting, but I would ask for it by, let's say, the first meeting in December. If you look at the adjacent plans that we had for the old ski hill when we originally looked into that one, One of the things I requested was the ability to do it in a phased approach so that you— I anticipated chunks of money instead of all in one go.

All in one go is great, but the likelihood in my eyes is lower. So as long as we're making forward process, I believe that will work for us as well. OK, if we could come forward with some— with— I don't have any problem with, you know, half a dozen options and different funding packages, that type of thing, or different ways to do it. I think that'd be great for assembly to look at. I'd appreciate that.

Is there anything else now from the assembly before I, I move on? Okay, thank you. And I— you've done a good job on that. Thank you for letting me present. Okay, I'm going to move on then to the mayor's report.

Under the mayor's report, the first item I have is recognition of election workers. Uh, thank you for everyone who helped make this year's election a success. And I want to add to myself that I think that, uh, our election workers are really crucial to keeping that process as, as absolutely perfectly straightforward, you know, as we can. And I really thank them for that. In recognition of our outgoing Assembly and Advisory Board members, we begin a new term.

I'd like to express my sincere thanks to Rob Schwartz for his service on the Petersburg Borough Assembly and to the outgoing Advisory Board members for their time and dedication. Thank you for your commitment to Petersburg and for the important role you have played in serving our residents. And I'll miss some of these quips that he has up here. Public notice of preliminary election results. Beginning with the next election, preliminary election results will be posted on the borough's official website and Facebook page on election night.

I've probably had over the last, you know, since the election, at least a dozen calls, people saying, why can't we find it? Wasn't on KFASK quick enough. So the clerk come up with the idea that we can post it on our website. I think, and I think that's a good idea. Seeking letters of interest.

The Petersburg Borough is accepting letters of interest from citizens who wish to serve the community by filing, filling one of the vacant seats on the following borough boards until October 2027 municipal election. Harbor and Port Advisory Board, 1 vacant seat. Planning Commission, 2 vacant seats. Letters of interest should be submitted to the clerk at the borough offices located at 12 South Nordic Drive by sending to P.O. Box 329, Petersburg, Alaska 99833, or by emailing to [email protected].

And then the last, the last meeting we talked about data centers and we were looking at some some type of package of an ordinance to come before there. That ordinance is being worked on, but it's going to be down the road, at least probably another 2 meetings before— it got fairly complicated in the process, so it's going to be a while before that's finished. Then last item I have here is First Responders Appreciation Day. Governor Mike Dunleavy has declared October 28, 2026 as a day to recognize recognize and honor Alaska's first responders for their vital role in protecting our homes, families, and communities. I encourage Petersburg residents to join in expressing their appreciation for these dedicated individuals, whether through a simple thank you, a note of gratitude, or a kind word recognizing their courage, commitment, and service to our community.

And the governor's proclamation is attached to this, this report. Anyhow, that's all I have, and I'm going to move on to the manager's Report. Thank you, sir. Um, got several items here that Liz attended the Southeast Conference and met with people while she was there, and so I'll try to point those out. One, the first was Alaska Mental Health Trust.

We got an update on the next steps for developing the South Midcof subdivision. The trust is working on a cost estimate for installing those improvements to their plans. She also met with Jackie Peda from Klingenheide Housing. They discussed the airport subdivision project that's currently underway, and she informed Liz that they're looking for funding to construct dwellings on the, um, Klingenheide housing lots. That would be an update, so we'll see.

She met with Alex Metals at the conference and had a follow-up video conference with them on October 9th. Alex Metals is a junior exploration company based in Canada who operated in Southeast Alaska this past summer. Alex Metals planned to continue exploration next summer, May through September, and hope to hire local staff for several positions. She had a conversation with Alaska Airlines, Scott Haberstad, who's the managing director. Um, it's been an ongoing conversation about the Petersburg terminal.

The airline acknowledged that the passenger baggage flow is challenging in the summer, but there are no immediate plans for renovation.

ADOT is planning in 2027 some projects on Midcoff Island, including highway chip seal, culvert replacement, and guardrail replacement. Also, DOT is in the process of updating the statewide freight plan and Southeast Transportation Plan.

There's a more extensive report, but I just kind of hit some of the highlights. The New Southeast Conference report provided by Raincoast Data. So this is 2025 data, includes some interesting numbers for Petersburg. Jobs in town are up 6% from 1,265 to 1,337, one of the largest gains in the region. Wages are up 11% from $6.84 million to $75.8 million.

Population is up 1% from 33,62 to 33,95. Home values, the average single-family home was $384,206. That's January to July of 2026. Combined Wrangell-Petersburg market on rents had the region's largest rent increase at 4.4%. And on business outlook, We continue to hold the record for being a little bit on the pessimistic side.

Petersburg business respondents were more likely to rate current conditions negatively than positively.

Staffing levels— so we're moving on from that— staffing levels for resident assistants remain at critically low levels. Scheduling for sick leave or planned vacations is challenging. Public works, including streets and wastewater Mountain View Maintenance, Absolute Drains, and Mattingly Electric, with input from the local fire marshal and water department, made quick work of the emergency sewer line break and mainline repair at Petersburg Elderly Housing. Harbour staff are sending letters asking for updated contract to customers who have not updated their information since the Harbour 2024 ordinance changes. Harbour staff attended the Skow Bay Contractors Prebid meeting last week for for the Skow Bay Boatyard project.

Bid opening will occur on Tuesday, October 27th. Harbor received American Cruise Line tour ship calendar with their third vessel, American Ranger, added to the calendar and increasing stops. Harbor has impounded 3 vessels and addressing the second wave of inactive vessels. Due to limited staffing, the library will be closed October 19th to the 24th. And open reduced hours October 26th to the 28th.

Regular hours resume October 29th. This was done by allowing a couple of employees that left and not replacing those positions purposely to try to help with our budget.

Um, thank you to the Friends of the Library for raising over $1,000 at their October book sale to support the library. And Chris Norris has generously donated $2,500 to the Friends of the Petersburg Libraries to support preschool and after-school library programming. Programs supported by the gift will be acknowledged in honor of her mother, Jo Norris. Construction continues on the new Skow Bay Generator Building. The project remains on schedule with site preparation progressing and underground electrical and grounding work scheduled to begin this week.

Foundation and equipment pad work is being coordinate with contractors, design reviews, equipment submittals, and planning for the subsequent construction phases are also continuing.

During SEPA's October 1st scheduled shutdown, Petersburg experienced a couple of separate power outages related to our diesel generation equipment. The first outage was caused by a failed high temperature sensor on one of our generators. The second outage occurred when the electronic controls on the Skow Bay 1 generator failed to respond properly. EPS, our controls engineering firm, is investigating the cause of the malfunction. McMillan has delivered the draft Main Street substation transformer feasibility and alternatives analysis.

Mouthful. The study evaluates options for replacing the existing transformer and addressing the long-term needs of our generation system.

Power and Light is preparing to replace our SCADA server and software. And modernization is the goal there to improve reliability, functionality, and some improvements on cybersecurity as well. We'll continue on developing policies and engineering requirements for large electrical loads, including proposed data center developments. Power and Light continues to coordinate electrical service requirements for the Skow Bay Boat Haulout Project, including proposed changes to the utility connection and routing. Street crew is working to add fabric and rock fill to the old pole yard on 14th Street.

You heard that, to prepare the area for storing the fire department's training props. Additional work is underway at the waste soil site, direct mud flows to an open cell. We have done a very good job at filling up our mud dump, and that's one of the critical aspects of doing any kind of building is what do you do with the stuff you dig out. So Aaron and his crew are doing some heavy-duty work rerouting flows so it goes where we want it to, not where we don't want it to go. Water staff have finished pressure washing and spot cleaning the 2 million gallon water storage tank.

Representatives from HDR conducted a site visit of the wastewater facilities in conjunction with the ongoing disinfectant study. It's one of several studies that we have to do to do with the EPA permit. We have several viable alternatives to achieving consistent disinfectant that will be presented to the borough by the end of this month.

Staff met virtually with engineers from HDR for the industrial pretreatment program study. We have compiled a list of commercial and industrial users within the borough, and we'll be mailing our surveys to identify and categorize their use of the facility. Petersburg Police Department continues to experience some severe staffing and recruitment challenges in both sworn police and dispatch corrections officers— or operations. Police division currently has 2 vacant officer positions, and an additional officer has indicated they're considering leaving by the end of the year, with low wages identified as a prime factor. Dispatch corrections currently has 4 vacant positions.

Petersburg continues to face 2 major recruitment barriers based upon input the chief, wages and high cost of local housing. He is suggesting that Borough Build employ housing to improve the situation.

If people have questions regarding the Code Red system and the NIMS process that came up in previous meeting, um, they should reach out to Director Hankins, who, who as the borough's emergency services director can provide information. He can also point people in the direction of the protocols used by the borough Bureau for Emergency Management. That's it. Most of those questions—. Any questions from the assembly?

Member Marsh? I do. Um, can you explain, uh, Manager Giesbrecht, a little bit more on the bid processing? The Harbor staff for the Scal Bay is— I think the— it's on the schedule for the 27th to open the bids. Is that, um— do we know how many bids we have at this point, or is that How does that process work for the mayor?

So we will have actually the engineer of the project, so Dick Somerville will actually be here and he'll, he'll basically coordinate all of this. At this point, we don't know how many bidders we'll get. They can send it at the absolute last minute, and so we won't know that until the time passes and we've— we're ready to open the bids. Bids will be open and then they're evaluated by evaluation group, including the engineer and Liz Cabrera and Glo from the harbor. And basically they'll evaluate and you look for who meets the best requirements for the bid.

And then we will at some point announce— we'll have to come in front of the assembly, but basically announce who the— who we want to award— who recommend that the bids be awarded to. So we're still you know, several weeks out on that, not only for the bid opening but also to go through the process of intent to award and making sure that everybody knows who's been awarded to. Let me ask a couple more questions unrelated to that. Thank you for that information. So, down to the transformer and the long-term needs of our generation system, what is the longevity typically of a transformer and what affects it one way or the other?

Yeah, that's a big question. Steve, are you here? Yeah, through the mayor. Um, so that transformer was manufactured, I believe, in 1982 or 1984. Um, with proper maintenance and, and oil management, 50 years is not out of the question, but it's pushing it.

And We'll go through the study and I can share it with everybody when we get the final copy, but I wouldn't bet the stability of the community when we need to run generators on it for another 20 years. So, um, evaluate the study and, and see where it's going to fit into our capital plan.

Okay, no other questions from the assembly. I'm going to move on to unfinished business. Under unfinished business, an ordinance of the Petersburg Borough adjusting the fiscal year 2027 budget for known changes. This is the second reading. The ordinance suggests the fiscal year 2027 budget for known changes identified after adoption and including additional funding for union wage increases, staffing adjustments in the water and wastewater departments and the public works building maintenance position.

Ordinance 2026-22 was unanimously approved in the first reading. Do I have a motion to approve Ordinance 2026-22? Can I propose an amendment on that? No, let's get it on the table. Let's get it on the table first.

I'll move. Second. It's been moved by Member Meucci, seconded by Member Valentine. Now, could I propose an amendment to that? And that would be to, um, remove the portion of the wage adjustment to allow for the union to vote.

I have not had a chance yet to meet with Jody, uh, and so until I get caught up, I'm wondering if that might be a good option to just postpone that until all the assembly members can have an opportunity to see where the numbers are, um, and then proceed from that point. And it would also give the voters of the union a chance to vote. I'll second that. So motion was by Member Marsh, seconded by Member Martin. Discussion?

Member Valentine? Um, I agree with you. I'm just curious if— is it amendment or is it a postpone the whole Or, or you're just taking one piece out? I'm just taking the one piece out. So that's where the amendment comes in.

Yeah. Ah, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, that was my question clarification. Thank you. Question from—.

So sorry. No, go ahead. I'm just looking for some more explanation on this. Okay, that's where I was going to go. Would, uh, to the manager or to the finance director?

Jody and, and, um, Becky should probably weigh in a little bit on the impact of this on, you know, our current process. So, you know, I understand what the union's saying, but also need to point out this is a 3-reading ordinance. This is just the 2nd reading, so there's time between now and the 3rd reading, which would be the next meeting, for that to be, you know, to be worked out.

Um, and if in fact this— and I believe everything in that ordinance is related to the union negotiations, so it'd be basically either, as Assemblymember Valentin said, probably holding it off, postponing it, um, if you wanted to go that way, might be more efficient than having to start over again. Um, and I'm not sure what we're trying to accomplish. Um, I mean, that, that's just a general statement on my part. Um, you know, the, the union has seen this last best final offer for some time now, and the assembly has, in, in executive session on 3 different occasions, had this presented to them. You have not voted on it yet.

That is, that is a true statement, but it's been in front of the assembly on 3 separate times.

And, you know, if, if it, if it fails, we're going to have to talk internally about do we have to start negotiations all over again or not? And that's, that would be not ideal. But anyway, Jody or Becky, do you have anything to add?

Well, I think that postponing it might be the better way to go. I also think, you know, if you approve this in 3 readings, the next 3 readings, it's just a placeholder. It's not saying, okay, you're going to do this, because the assembly still has to vote on the union contract before it goes into effect. So that could be at a different meeting, a later meeting, and then it would just be there in case you did vote for it, if that makes sense.

Mm-hmm. Let me come back to Member Valentine first. Thank you. So I don't see the— like, because it sounds like even after we approve this or not, it sounds like this is still an ongoing thing, and I don't see a harm in just postponing it when we're going to be— this is going to be brought up again, especially if we're all going to see the contracts again. In all this.

So I don't see the harm in just postponing it, and I think postponing seems to be the cleaner route to do this and then see where the vote goes. And then through the manager and through Jody and through the union, we'll know what we're going to do better next, you know, with the assembly and how we're going to vote and things like that. So, Member Marsh, thank you. I think between James and Jody, the question was answered. So, so whether if we vote to approve what is presented here tonight, A, it's a second reading, but B, it is just a placeholder so that we still have to go through the contract finalization and those numbers could yet change.

Well, I don't know if they're going to get changed, but the assembly still has to vote to accept that contract. And so, Becky, do you—. So I think the easiest, the cleanest thing would be to postpone to a certain date, to a future meeting, give the union time to review and vote as well. And as Jody said, the assembly will need to vote on that contract before it's implemented. So, yes, it's up to the assembly if you'd like to postpone it.

Just make sure you postpone to a certain meeting date. That's the cleanest way. It doesn't mean you can't postpone it again at that meeting, but just give me a date. The next meeting is November 2nd. And so I would put this back on the agenda as postponed from this meeting.

And it would be as its second reading, so then we still have a third reading. Again, just delaying the decision to a future meeting. And I think November 19th is the second meeting in— yes, November 16th is the second meeting in November.

You want to amend your motion? I think I should amend the motion. Yes, so could I amend the motion to postpone this ordinance, uh, 2026-22, until November 16th? You want to postpone the entire ordinance or the—. Yes, because it is all related to wages.

Yeah, is the— do the clerk have the wording now? Yes, I do. I just need a second for the change. Since she was the original motion maker, that's perfectly fine. She can change her motion.

And then if we could just have a second on her updated motion.

Okay. Been moved and seconded, and then the motion has been amended. Now let's come back, uh, Member Meucci. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I'm going to oppose the amendment.

Um, I want to move this forward in its second reading. And the reason I want to move it forward is we'll get our second reading behind us.

That'll give us a couple of weeks for the employees union to, you know, talk about their vote. And when we come up against the third reading, if we still need time, we can certainly postpone it under the third reading. Um, so I just wanted to say that I'm going to vote against the amendment. Um, I, I, I see where it's headed, but I, I want to move this forward in one more reading. Um, and I did have a couple questions.

Does—. And it was brought up in the public comment— are we required to go to arbitration, or is that just a suggested step in the process? No, we would be— that would be the next step, but we would go to arbitration, um, just as part of the process. But are we planning to go to arbitration?

Try to speak to this. You guys met with Sarah though? Yeah. Okay. Yes, it sounds like that would be the next step.

Just to follow up, so the arbitration, though, it's not binding. We just go to arbitration, and if we don't like what the arbitration says to the borough's part of it, we don't have to take that recommendation. Well, the negotiating team would present the arbitrator's findings and ask the assembly to vote for it. You know, we'd present it in good faith. This is what the arbitrator wants us to do.

The assembly does have the final word. Okay, thank you. Member Valentine, um, just a clarification on if we postpone, does it postpone to the second reading or does it postpone the whole thing and we have to go 1, 2, 3 readings? It would just be the second reading. It would kind of freeze like as of today, and I think we would have another public hearing as well.

So yeah, so it freezes it at the second reading. I like this better because then if we froze it at the 3rd reading, that would— you wouldn't have that 2-week kind of adjustment period if you were to postpone a 3rd reading, if that makes sense. So, okay, sweet. I'm ready. Newman.

Okay, so I think I'm gonna vote against the amendment to postpone it because the assembly still has to vote on the— has to approve the contract. So I don't see the value of postponing it other than do we know when the union is going to vote on it and how much time do they need?

I was under— understanding that they would be voting within the next 2 weeks, so we could approve the second reading. They would have time for the next meeting, then we would know.

Yeah.

I just— several people came down to testify that this was being perceived as bad faith, and I don't think it cost us anything to postpone this second reading and respond to that in a good faith manner. And just to follow up on that, just, just with a short statement about that, um, that because just because we don't agree doesn't mean that either party is acting in bad faith. Um, we did go to mediation, and the mediator mentioned that both parties have been bargaining in good faith throughout the process. So the borough, in moving forward with implementing the last best final offer, is just exercising its rights that are provided under state law, um, and have told the union that. But I certainly understand giving them more time as well.

So whatever the assembly decides to do is what we'll do.

Anybody else? Any other assembly member? Um, I think I'm going to vote against it also. I would like to see the union, you know, vote on it, but they have two— they have the next two weeks here to do it, and then we can make a decision. The assembly can make a decision what they want to do from that point.

So with that, would the clerk Please call roll. Roll call on the amendment. I'm sorry, on the amendment. Okay. Member Martin.

Yes. Member Valentine. Yes. Member Newman. No.

Member— Member Marsh. Member Meucci. No. Mayor Lynn. No.

And so the amendment fails 3 to 3. Now back to the main motion. Um, to approve on second reading Ordinance 2026-22.

Member Martin?

Yes. Member Valentine? Yes. Member Newman? Yes.

Member Marsh? No. Member Meucci? Yes. Mayor Lynn?

Yes. And that— the motion on approving Ordinance 2020 2026-22 on the second reading is approved 5 to 1 with Member Marsh opposing. I'm going to move on to Ordinance 2026-23, an ordinance amending Section 3.76.020 of the Petersburg Borough Municipal Code, day of the land manager as an administrative officer. This is the second reading. This ordinance amends PMC 3.76.020 to add the manager as an administrative officer.

The land manager position was approved by the assembly as part of the fiscal year 2027 budget, and the borough has since hired an individual to fill the position. The land— lands manager provides dedicated oversight and coordination of borough-owned lands, including land sales, leases, permits, acquisitions, dispositions, and other land management activities. This ordinance is an administrative update to the borough code to formalize— formally recognize the land manager as an administrative officer consistent with the position already approved and established by the assembly. It does not create a new position or authorize additional funding. Ordinance 2026-23 was unanimously approved on its first reading.

Do I have a motion to approve Ordinance 2026-23? So moved. Second. Moved by Member Mucci, seconded by Member Valentine. Uh, any discussion from the assembly members?

Okay, would the clerk please call the roll on Ordinance 2026-23? Mayor Lynn? Yes. Member Mucci? Yes.

Member Valentine? Yes. Member Martin? Yes. Member Newman?

Yes. Member Marsh? Yes. Ordinance 2026-23 passes unanimously. On the second reading.

I'm going to move on now to new business. Under new business, we have assignment of Virtual Properties LLC, number 1, lease to Wheel Watch LLC, assignment of Virtual Properties LLC lease to Wheel Watch LLC. There are no plans or changes to the property or its current operations. The lease documents are attached to this agenda item, and I—. There is a suggested motion On page 3 of the assembly packet, I move to approve assignment of Virtual Properties LLC lease for parcel 01010039 to Wheel Watch LLC, subject to the terms of the assignment and assumption agreement.

Is there a second?

Been moved by Member Valentine, second by Member March. Discussion from Assembly members, would the clerk please call the roll on the assignment of Virtual Properties LLC number 1? Member Valentine? Yes. Member Martin?

Yes. Member Newman? Yes. Member Marsh? Yes.

Member Meucci? Yes. Mayor Lynn? Yes. And that the assignment of the Virtual Properties LLC number 1 lease to Wheel Watch LLC is approved 6 to 0.

I'm going to move on to the communications are in the contained in the package and online, uh, that were received since the September 29th, 2026 meeting. Now I'm going to move on to assembly discussion items, and under those there's, there's 3 items. Um, member, member Meucci asked for a comprehensive plan review and update, uh, and so I will turn that over to member Meucci for discussion. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. You know, when we were having discussions about the wireless communication facility ordinance, data center ordinance, and moratoriums, it was always brought up to me, is this covered in the comprehensive plan, and when was it last updated?

And I was just curious what the process is and how it works.

So, through the mayor, um, the last comprehensive plan that the that the borough did was in 2016. As part of, as part of forming the borough, the state allocated a certain amount of money to the borough to organize, and we used some of the money to engage a firm to do a comprehensive plan, which is normally what you do. You hire an outside party to do that. We, the borough, hired Agnew Beck, who did a comprehensive plan, a harbor development plan, and some, some— I'll call it zoning, but it was basically kind of a zoning light layout of how zoning could look if we did it throughout the borough. It's an expensive process.

I think we spent several hundred thousand dollars to do that. And normally the way— if the borough assembly wanted to engage and redo the comprehensive plan, you would— we'd put it out for bids or RFPs and let people bid on it and tell us what they would do. And this is what we did last time. So they— a group of them came, made a presentation to the then-assembly, and the assembly approved and said, we want, you know, we want to award it to Agnew Beck. And, and then basically becomes a, you know, almost 6-month, 7-month project.

Member Valentine. Thank you. Sorry if I should know what this is, but the comprehensive plan, is this essentially like somebody coming in, viewing the borough and kind of directing us in certain directions? Like, hey, you know, this is kind of where you're at, what's going on? Okay, you know, here's the next steps that you probably should be doing.

Is that kind of what This is now—. Mayor, can I jump in? Yes, please. Um, in my opinion, and it's not worth probably the breath it takes to say it, but it would probably be best for the assembly to each read the comp plan if you haven't already. I'm not trying to be— I just say, if you haven't already read it and the Harbor Development Plan, I would read those things, and then would be the time to have a conversation about do we want to do another one.

I agree. I don't know, not because that's not a shot at anyone, that's because it's an expensive— not only in writing the checks, but it takes a ton of staff time. They met with every department head, they tried to meet with every assembly member, um, and set up focus groups among citizens and stuff in town. It's a big, big job, and I don't think the assembly wants to go that route unless you really want to go there and spend the money. So anyway, sorry, that was—.

I think the other part of that question is, is how, how much has it been used since we did it? And yes, it has substantial— I've read it, and yes, it has substantially changed, but is it worth investment? I, listening to a couple things we wanted to do earlier, to me they'd be higher priority if we're going to spend money, but that's my own view. Not my call, but yeah, that's good. The question I had is, how often do you do it?

Do you do it every 10 years or 20 years, or what's the— is there a recommendation for the mayor? Yeah, if you talk to the firms that get a lot of money to do this, they'll say do it every 10 years. Sure. But I mean, usually what are communities—. And that's bigger cities who have like a full-blown staffed planning department, probably gets pretty close to that.

Um, very seldom do communities the size of Petersburg do it every 10 years. Because it's so expensive. I mean, it's just, it's not a, and it takes a ton of resources staff-wise. So, um, I'm not sure there's a number better than the 10 years, but if you ask Agnew Beck, for example, they'd probably tell you do it every 10 years, and we're at that 10-year mark. So, thank you.

Oh, I'm just, yeah, I'm just thinking about it, just like having come in onto the borough, it just seems like, uh, We're kind of in a position now where it's more dumpster fires than anything else, right? There's one over here, there's one over here. Let's figure this out. And so it's, yeah, I don't know if spending more money to say what we should be doing is great. So I think we can.

Yeah. So I don't. Yeah. Are you okay? I'm going to read this plan though.

So I understand. I used to encourage people coming new to the assembly to read this even before they ran. And I didn't have any takers, so I stopped making recommendations, but shame on me. I mean, it's really a document that the assembly should read, but it's a long read and it's complex. I've been told I need to read more, so it's fine.

Moving on to Item B, then capital project list. Did we answer your question? Yes, we did, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. And we've answered— Director Marohl answered the question on the flooding into the— houses down, and so we're all fine there.

I'm—. That was just— seems like every time it rains hard, people start calling me up and want to know about if their sewer is going to back up into their basement. So thank you for telling me that. Okay, assembly member comments. Does any assembly member have comments tonight?

Member Martin? Yeah, I had an interesting conversation today about a regular speaker at our meetings. About the testimony and what we do with it other than say thank you. And I've been thinking about it most of the day. And one thing that comes to mind is that none of us here speak for the assembly.

We're just individuals. And so who would answer some of these more abstract, lofty questions about privacy and constitutional obligations and things like that. And another, another thing that strikes me is that it's hard to respond on the fly, especially if you're not a good public speaker like myself here. But I've been thinking about some of those things. But just because we don't respond doesn't necessarily mean we're not listening.

So I'm going to think about it some more, maybe talk about it some more at some other time.

Member Meucci? Yeah, you know, kind of on the same vein there, do we have a policy? Like, if somebody sends us a letter and they're asking questions, do we officially respond? Is there a policy in place for that? We do not have a policy in place to do that.

In some cases, depends on what it is, we have responded, but there is no policy in place that I'm aware of. Aware of. Would you agree, Manager?

That's the case. Um, yeah, there's not an official policy of the borough to respond or to not respond. I can tell you from staff's perspective, far easier if we get something in writing than to try to recap people's words. Um, in writing allows us a better chance at making sure we understand what somebody's asking. But so if the assembly went that direction, I would include that as well as is in writing.

And I—. But I'll come back. When I— coming back to Member Martin, there are some very heavy questions asked here that can't, to my mind, can't be answered, you know, just on the fly, so to speak. But that doesn't mean, I think, in a lot of cases— and maybe what we ought to have, I don't— is thinking is that, yeah, we're gonna— we'll take— we'll look at it, you know, or No, that's probably not your right words, but we'll take it. We'll, we'll look, we'll look further into it, you know, type of thing.

Member Newman? Yeah, on the same vein, you know, the way I view it is when somebody comes and gives testimony on items related to the agenda or not on the agenda, those are words for consideration. So, you know, they're not like a call for action, or maybe they are a call for action, but they're a word They're words for all of us to consider as we move forward. And I don't know if it's an action required on our part to respond individually to each person or not. I think that would be kind of not unnecessary, but I mean, that's how I view it.

Member Valentine, I think you had a question. No, I was just thinking, you know, it is— it was well said what you said, uh, Member Bob Martin, it's like, I try to be as emotionless as possible up here because I have to be, I'm looking at facts as best I can and try to make decisions off of the facts that I've read, seen, and everything that people bring up at all these meetings. Like I do go and read on my own and do other stuff. So I am listening, I'm doing, but I could probably be more, on a personal level, I could be more communicative about that. But sometimes it's like I can't, please everybody.

I get pulled on the street all the time. I get pulled this, and then in moments, a lot of times in any kind of discussion, it's like there's emotion that gets thrown in, and then you might not say it correctly. It's what you meant to say. And so these back and forth dialogues, and it's just words. So writing is always better.

And so I was just kind of thinking that you, you're right, you know, I like how you said it. So yeah, thanks. Thank you. Other Any other comments? Okay, I'll move on.

Is there any recognitions? Assembly members have any recognitions? Just— Member Muching? Yeah, you know, we got in our assembly correspondence, we had a several-page explanation of the power outage and all the stuff that went into it, and I just wanted to tell Steve that that was great. I can forward that to anybody who wants to know what happened to the power, and I don't have to answer any questions.

And that was just awesome. It was made to my third-grade level understanding of stuff, and it was great. I just want to say thank you very much.

Anything else? Okay. Recognize the fire department because they put out a fire. You know, it's awesome they responded. Y'all did great.

Thank you. Now we just get you some training. I hear it went okay.

Um, last item I have is here. We're going to— tonight we're going to conduct an executive session, the borough computer network vulnerabilities and security response. The basis for the executive session is Alaska Statute 44.62.310 and to discuss matters, um, the immediate knowledge of which would clearly have an adverse effect upon the finances of the borough and which are not subject to public disclosure, specific— specifically to discuss network vulnerabilities and security responses related to the recent ransomware attack of the borough's computer network. Do I have a— there is a suggested motion if one of the assembly members would like to make it. Do it.

I move to enter an executive session in accordance with the Alaska Statutes 44.62.3. 3.10 And to discuss matters at immediate— the immediate knowledge of which would clearly have an adverse effect upon the finances of the borough, the matters involving government records that are not subject to the public disclosures, specifically network vulnerability and security response measures related to the recent ransomware attack on the borough's network— our computer network. Been moved by Member Valentine, seconded by Member Meucci. And with that, uh, we, we need to clear the, the staff. The staff can— I'm sorry, do we need—.

I have one more year left. I'm sorry. Um, yes, you're right, I, I'm wrong. Uh, we need to vote on that too, which I haven't done. Uh, Becky, would you call— would you call a vote on that, please?

Yeah, Mayor Lynn. Yes. Member Meucci? Yes. Member Marsh?

Yes. Member Martin? Member Valentine? Yes. Member Newman?

Thank you. Okay, thank you. And with that, staff stays, and we need to clear, uh, the other— the room otherwise. Thank you. I missed that.

Yeah.