House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Federal Lands (Begich): Legislative hearing

The Subcommittee on Federal Lands will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to consider 7 bills. H.R. 1693, Sponsored by Representative Hageman.

H.R. 7254, Sponsored by Representative Huffman. H.R. 8121, Sponsored by Delegate Plaskett. H.R.

8454, Sponsored by Representative McClintock. H.R. 8913, Sponsored by Representative Valadao. H.R. 9248, Sponsored by Representative Herd.

H.R. 9416, Sponsored by Representative Scott. I ask unanimous consent that the following members be allowed to participate in today's hearing. From the dais: the gentlelady from Wyoming, Ms. Hageman; the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Hurd; the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Bishop and Mr. Scott; the gentleman from California, Mr. Valadao; and the gentlelady from the U.S. Virgin Islands, Ms. Plaskett. Without objection, so ordered.

Under Committee Rule 4, any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3.0. Without objection, so ordered. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement, which I sat down.

Since this is a subcommittee on federal lands, I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge the fear, the damage, and the loss of life that wildfires are causing right now out in the West, in my home state. After the driest winter on record, we're now facing an alarming start to the fire season. The number of fires and pace of growth has everyone in my district demoralized and concerned. I especially want to recognize 3 wildland firefighters, Emily Barker, Nick Hutcherson, and Sydney Watson, who were tragically killed fighting fire on the Utah-Cal— Utah-Colorado border just days ago. Even as firefighters continue battling these devastating fires, this subcommittee will continue advancing policies that reduce catastrophic fire risk and give land managers the tools they need to protect forests, communities, and those on the front lines.

When these blazes are under control, we will have a lot of work to do on the subcommittee rewriting policies that have made catastrophic fires like these more common on federal lands. Before I discuss the legislation on today's agenda, I'd like to take a moment to reflect on the work of the Federal Lands Subcommittee so far this year.

Considered one of the most productive subcommittees in Congress, This year, we've already held 10 hearings, considered 35 pieces of bipartisan legislation, and conducted important oversight on topics like wildfires and forest health crisis, the budgets of our federal land management agencies, and the implementation of the Explore Act. As a member of the subcommittee, I look forward to continuing to advance a robust agenda as we head into the remainder of 2026. Turning to today's agenda, the bills we're considering promote better management of our federal lands. Improve outdoor recreation opportunities, honor distinguished Americans, and provide common-sense solutions for local communities. Representative Hurd's Recreation Permitting Improvement Act builds on the success of Title 41 of the Fixing America's Surface Transportation Act, otherwise known as FAST-41, by adding recreation infrastructure as an eligible sector.

Outdoor recreation contributes $1.3 trillion to our nation's economy and supports over 5 million jobs across the country. As demand for outdoor recreation continues to grow, so too does the need for modern infrastructure that supports access to our federal lands. FAST-41 created the Federal Permitting Improvement Steering Council and has become an effective tool for coordinating federal permitting, increasing transparency, and providing greater certainty for complex infrastructure projects. Allowing qualifying recreation projects to participate in FAST-41 will accelerate investment in recreation infrastructure to benefit local economies and expand opportunities to get outside and enjoy America's public lands. And I'd like to note my constituent, Ben Burr, from New Harmony, Utah, is here to testify about Mr. Hurd's bill.

Welcome, Mr. Burr. Representative Valadao's H.R. 8913 Similarly supports outdoor recreation by addressing a longstanding issue affecting the city of Tulare, California, by removing outdated federal reversionary interests in two important community properties, the historic Women's Club and the Rotary Skate Park. This legislation will provide the city with the certainty needed to effectively utilize these community recreation assets and invest in them for future generations. We will also consider Representative Hageman's H.R.

1693 To rename the National Historic Trails Interpretive Center in Casper, Wyoming, in honor of former Representative Barbara Cuban. Congresswoman Cuban is the first woman elected to Congress from Wyoming, a true trailblazer and a tireless advocate for her state and the American West. During her time in Congress, she was a respected leader on this committee, where she chaired the Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources and championed the responsible management of our nation's natural resources. Representative Cuban also led the legislation that established the center in 1998. Renaming the center she helped create is a fitting tribute to her enduring legacy and will continue to highlight the story of America's westward expansion in the Equality State.

Representative McClintock's H.R. 8454 Improves the management of Ackerson Meadow in California by authorizing an exchange of administrative jurisdiction over roughly 330 acres between Yosemite National Park and Stanislaus National Forest. Resolving the current checkerboard pattern of ownership will simplify land management, support ongoing habitat restoration and grazing, and improve recreational opportunities. This locally supported effort balances multiple uses and ensures each parcel is managed by the agency best suited to do so. And finally, we will consider Congressman Austin Scott's Ocmulgee— am I saying that right, Congressman?

Ocmulgee Mounds National Park Redesignation Act. Ocmulgee Mounds National Historical Park in Georgia conserves one of the longest continuous records of human habitation in North America, spanning 17,000 years, and holds profound cultural significance for several tribes. This legislation will redesignate the existing Ocmulgee National Historic Park as a national park in recognition of this site's remarkable history and cultural importance. Representative Scott has worked closely with the Trump administration to ensure that this change is a straightforward redesignation of the existing footprint that will not expand the park's boundary or increase the federal estate. I'd like to thank Representative Scott for making this important improvement to his legislation.

I want to thank each of our witnesses for traveling here today and for sharing your expertise with the subcommittee. We appreciate your willingness to to assist us as we consider these important measures, and I look forward to today's discussion. With that, I will yield back and recognize Ms. Randall for an opening statement. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Unfortunately, the cancellation of votes today scrambled a lot of our schedules, and Ranking Member Neguse and Ranking Member Huffman are unable to attend the hearing this morning, but I'm happy to fill in alongside my colleague from Utah, and I want to thank you all for the opportunity and the warm welcome.

Um, before starting, I also want to acknowledge the 3 firefighters, Emily, Nick, and Sydney, who gave their lives, and the 2 others injured last weekend while tackling wildfires on the Colorado-Utah border. My heart is with their families and with the communities as we mourn their losses, their braveries, Inspiring. And we see in our communities in the West every season how wildland firefighters run into danger while everyone else is running away. And it is our job to honor their legacies, to thank them for their dedication, and to stand with them in ensuring that we are investing in the kind of solutions that we need to avoid the loss of life and damage to communities and land. One of my favorite things about Natural Resources Committee is we have the opportunity, like today, to engage on several bipartisan bills and policy areas.

Our national parks and public lands are topics in which we so often can find common ground. Just last week, our committee marked up the America the Beautiful Act to reauthorize the Legacy Restoration Fund. This bill is approaching 200 bipartisan sponsors, which means Not only is it a cause for celebration, but we have room to grow. So let's keep that momentum going. And for today's bill, I'll start with Ricky Member Hoffman's bill, H.R.

7254. This bill would authorize a study to consider a national trail designation for the Bay Area Ridge Trail in Northern California. And we know that communities who have access to the outdoors are healthier, more thriving communities. And recognizing this new trail and expanding the National Trail System aligns with that enthusiasm for outdoor recreation that exists throughout the country, and certainly with my neighbors back home in Washington. It's opportunities to support sustainable recreation and the economic benefits for all.

I also want to thank the ranking member for his commitment to this cause and for recognizing this opportunity in his own backyard. I'd also like to welcome Janet McBride from the Bay Area Ridge Trail Council, who's here to testify on the bill. Janet has worked on the council for nearly 20 years and has extensive experience planning and out— and doing outreach that led to Ranking Member Huffman's bill. She has deep roots in trail planning and advocacy, and we're so lucky to have her here today. And I look forward to your testimony, Ms. McBride.

Next up, H.R. 8128 From Rep. Plaskett would recognize and commemorate the legacy of Peter G. Thurland to the Virgin Islands community. Specifically, the bill renames the Christiansen Bandstand after Mr. Thurland, who founded the St. Croix Community Band in 1938. He went on to lead the band for 30 years until passing the legacy on to his son, and naming the bandstand after him will truly honor that legacy. It's a busy week in the Virgin Islands.

Today is St. John's celebration, and July 3rd is Emancipation Day. So Delica Plasca is unable to attend the hearing, but I want to pass on her support and the support of the community for this measure. I have two letters of support here that I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record from the Thurland family and from former Senator St. Clair Williams. Without objection. Thank you.

Uh, H.R. 1693 Redesignates the National Historic Trails Interpretive Center in Casper, Wyoming, after former Representative Barbara Cuban. And listening to her legacy, it sounds like she had such a meaningful impact on her state. I do want to mention that the longstanding National Park Service policy limits honorary redesignations to those who are no longer with us, and unless we have a policy change, it seems like we should honor that National Park Service policy. Um, H.R.

9416 From Representative Scott to redesignate the Ocmulgee Mounds as Georgia's first national park. That's a hard one. Um, in addition to redesignating the site, this bill represents a significant step forward for tribal sovereignty and co-management. It represents a significant advancement for the committee's work in tribal engagement and I want to thank the prime sponsor and all the advocates for engaging in that meaningful work. And I'm eager to understand how this bill reconciles with previous versions that expand the site and included a preserve component with a tribal advisory commission.

It doesn't seem this bill has those elements. Um, H.R. 9248 From Rep. Hurd, the Recreation and Permitting Act, aims to improve the permitting process by adding certain recreation projects to the FAST-41 program. And we fully support enhancing recreational opportunities. But I'm, I'm interested to learn how recreation, um, is an appropriate sector to be included as a covered infrastructure in this particular permitting scheme.

And I'll— I'm excited to learn more in this hearing. In nearly every committee hearing, I take a minute to talk about staffing and agency capacity. If we really want to enhance recreation across our federal lands, we should be focusing on making sure federal land management agencies are fully staffed and have adequate resources. Additionally, House Republicans are sitting on a backlog of bills that grow the outdoor recreation economy, designate parks that reflect American stories, and support the rangers and staff that keep land safe, open, and ready for everyone. Our national parks are often thought of as America's best idea, and they'll only remain that way if we support the people who maintain and steward them.

Thank you for your grace, Madam Chair. Yield back. Thank you, Ms. Randall. We will now move on to our first panel, which consists of members who are sponsoring legislation today. I now recognize Representative McClintock for 5 minutes on H.R.

8454. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this bill, the Akerson Meadowland Interchange Act. Uh, the bill's a straightforward proposal to improve stewardship over Acherson Meadow in the Sierra Nevada. It would transfer administrative jurisdiction over approximately 160 acres of National Forest System land to Yosemite National Park, and it would also transfer approximately 170 acres of National Park System land to be part of the Stanislaus National Forest.

Uh, Senator Padilla is carrying identical legislation in the Senate. We don't agree on much, but we certainly agree on this. This legislation addresses a familiar problem in federal land management in the Sierra Nevada, the checkerboard of boundary lines that makes land management disjointed and inefficient to manage. This bill simply consolidates land jurisdictions between the National Park System and the National Forest System without increasing the federal footprint. At issue is the Ackerson Meadow.

This meadow supports responsible livestock grazing operations that have been part of the history and economy of the region, and are essential for brush control, maintaining meadow conditions, and sustaining the rural economy that depends on these lands. Federal agencies, conservation organizations, and local ranchers have worked together to improve the meadow while maintaining grazing opportunities. Restoration projects have improved wetland conditions, enhanced water storage, improved habitat, and support continued public uses such as grazing. The proposed land exchange would make that cooperative approach easier by eliminating the confusions caused by split jurisdictions. Ranchers need to know where their permits apply, where infrastructure can be maintained, and who's responsible for decisions affecting their operations.

Fence line, water system, and access road don't recognize an arbitrary administrative boundary on a federal map. Uh, the bill also protects existing rights and authorizations. It specifically provides that valid existing rights, including rights of way, easements, leases, licenses, and permits remain protected after the transfer. This ensures that current users, including grazing permit holders, are not unfairly disrupted by a change in administrative jurisdiction. It also appropriately maintains federal responsibilities for hazardous substance cleanup and other obligations.

This bill reflects a principle that should guide federal land policy. Management decisions should be based on the realities of the landscape, not simply on boundaries drawn on a map decades ago. Our national forests and parks serve many purposes. They preserve wildlife habitat, protect watersheds, provide recreation, and support rural economies. A balanced approach recognizes all of these values.

We have with us Mr. Tim Erickson, whose family has run cattle operations at Yosemite. For 137 years, and he'll discuss the importance of this bill to sustainable conservation for the region. I'm going to have to duck out for another meeting for about an hour, but I'll look forward to being back and leave you in his good hands on the matters involving this bill. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. I yield back.

Thank you, Representative McClintock. I now recognize Representative Scott for 5 minutes on H.R. 9416. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on H.R.

9416, Which would redesignate the Ocmulgee Mounds National Historic Park in Macon as the Ocmulgee Mounds National Park for the first national park in our great state of Georgia. This redesignation is the culmination of a decades-long bipartisan effort dating back to 1934. In 2014, Congressman Bishop and I along with Senator Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isaacson, advanced legislation that ultimately became part of the John D. Dingell Jr. Conservation Management Recreation Area Recreation Act in 2019. That law expanded the park boundary, launched a special resource study completed in 2023, and established the current historical park designation. The bill before you is a straightforward next step.

It makes no changes to the park boundary and focuses on conferring national park status. Reflected, reflecting extensive collaboration between my office, committee staff, the Department of the Interior, local leaders, and tribal partners. H.R. 9416 Represents a historic opportunity to safeguard an important cultural landscape in the Southeast and support stewardship of natural resources for future generations. Additionally, this redesignation would bring impactful benefits to Middle Georgia.

National Park status elevates the site's visibility, strengthens partnerships and supports economic growth through increased tourism. I'm pleased to welcome Mr. Gary Wheat, President and CEO of Visit Macon, who will speak on the economic opportunities this designation would unlock for the region. I appreciate the committee's thoughtful consideration, look forward to continuing to work together. I now yield the remainder of my time to my friend and the co-lead of this bill, my colleague from Georgia, Mr. Sanford Bishop. Thank you very much for yielding, Chairman Malloy, Ranking Member Randall.

Thank you for inviting Representative Scott and me to testify on behalf of our bill, H.R. 9416, The Mulgee Mounds National Park Redesignation Act. I'm also grateful that Gary Wheat, the president and CEO of Visit Macon, is here to testify on behalf of our legislation. In the interest of time, I'll keep my remarks brief. Congressman Scott and I have a long history of working together in a bipartisan fashion to preserve and protect this special place in middle Georgia, albeit not quite as long as Ocmulgee's 17,000-year history.

Most recently, we worked together to change the name from Ocmulgee National Monument to Ocmulgee Mounds National Historic Park, expanding the boundaries from approximately 702 acres to over 3,000 acres to provide protection to additional archaeological resources, to authorize a resources study to explore the possibility of expanding the park even further to to include additional opportunities for hunting, camping, fishing, and other recreational activities. That legislation was signed into law in 2019. Our bill today represents a small, albeit meaningful, step forward that will strengthen Atmogee and ensure that its cultural and religious sites are protected now and into the future. It reflects key input from stakeholders at the federal, state, and local levels, including the Muscogee Creek Nation and the Sake— whose sacred and revered ancestral sites are located inside the proposed boundary. Legislation will create the first national park in the state of Georgia, and the designation could exponentially boost visitors to Middle Georgia, bringing in more than $34 million annual tax revenue, as well as support over 3,000 jobs through visitor activity and tourism.

It also includes provisions that allow the Secretary of Interior, upon request, to take approximately 133.88 acres of land held by the Muscogee Creek Nation into trust as a part of Muscogee Creek Reservation. It's currently under a conservation easement, and gaming is prohibited on the land. Again, I want to thank the Subcommittee of Federal Lands for inviting Representative Scott and me to testify. As our nation prepares to celebrate its 250th birthday this Saturday, It is vital that we preserve and protect our ancient history, including the stories of the indigenous peoples who lived here long before July 4th, 1776. I urge your support and would be happy to answer any questions.

I yield back.

Thank you, Representatives Scott and Bishop. I now recognize Representative Valadao for 5 minutes.

Thank you, Chairwoman Malloy, and all members of this subcommittee for your time today. I especially want to thank Chairwoman Malloy for pronouncing Tulare correctly.

In 1866, Union Pacific Railroad bought 2 parcels of land in Tulare County for railroad construction. While the railroad no longer needs this property for that purpose, the land has remained subject to federal reversionary interest, preventing the city of Tullare from making much-needed improvements. Over the years, Union Pacific has graciously allowed the city to use these parcels to build the historic Tullare Women's Club and the city skate park. These spaces have served local families for decades, but both facilities are now in need of significant upgrades. Although Union Pacific has agreed to transfer the property, the federal government's remaining reversionary interest continues to delay these long overdue improvements.

The Tulare Youth Recreation and Women's History Enhancement Act would authorize the sale of this land so the city can finally move forward with critical upgrades. I appreciate Union Pacific's partnership in helping move this solution forward, and I look forward to seeing these sites continue to serve Tulare families and preserve the community's history for years to come. I want to thank the subcommittee for their time and urge all members to support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Valadeo. We will now move on to our second panel. Let me remind the witnesses that under committee rules, you must limit your oral statement to 5 minutes, but your entire statement will appear in the hearing record. To begin your testimony, please press the on button on the microphone. We use timing lights.

When you begin, the light will turn green. At the end of 5 minutes, the light will turn red, and I will ask you to please complete your statement. First, I'd like to introduce the Honorable Terry Sayre, council member on the Tulare City Council. In California. Councilmember Sayer, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

Okay, got it. Different than our dais. I'm really pleased to be here this morning and appreciate so much, Chairman and Ranking Member, members of the subcommittee, to give me an opportunity to testify in support of HR 8913, the Tulare Youth Recreation and Women's History Enhancement Act. As the first long full-term mayorwoman of Tulare, I am especially interested in the Women's Clubhouse restoration. Upon my election 8 years ago, it was one of my primary focus was to see that this building was restored and used as a center for our west side of Tulare, which is whom I represent.

So it's important that we look at this building in terms of restoring it to its beautiful original 1800 first building built before the city was even chartered. So I— you have all the notes that I sent you, so you know all the details about this project. I just want you to know personally, I had my wedding reception there. My daughter, who was Miss Tulare County, had her fundraiser there. My Kaonas group used to have a pancake breakfast every fair day there.

So I am totally invested in seeing this revisionary outdated federal act of Congress to let us purchase this land from the railroad, which has taken us some time to get them to also be willing to let that land go that we can use it. And the city has not wanted to restore the building when we didn't owned the land because the railroad at any moment could come and take that land away. So that's, that's my main interest is looking at reflecting the importance of this act being revoked so that we can move forward with restoring this building. We've already allocated millions of dollars in our budget to do that. We're not asking for money.

We're just asking to get rid of this outdated federal law so that we can move ahead. With our project. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Sayre. We've got to make sure that your wedding reception is memorialized. I will now recognize Mr. Tim Erickson, a rancher and member of the California Cattlemen's Association and the Public Lands Council. Mr. Erickson, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, Ranking Members, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify in support of Representative McClintock's H.R. 8454 To provide the transfer of administrative jurisdiction over certain federal lands in the state of California in Tuolumne County. I am Tim Erickson, and for the last 137-plus years, my family has operated a cow-calf operation in the area that is now best known as Yosemite. My great-grandfather came to this country from Ireland in 1852.

Had 7 children, and he drowned in Yosemite in the summer of 1870. My grandfather, at 12 years old, went to work in mines and other cattle ranches to help support the family. And he is the one who started this operation as we know it today. My wife Betty Ann and I took over the operation in our mid-20s, and today we work with our son Dan and his family and our grandchildren who are the 5th generation on the ranch. Our ranch existed before the establishment of the Forest Service, so we've seen our fair share of history and challenges, some of them long before me.

Today we face even ever-present risk of wildfire and policies that sometimes just don't make sense. Ackerson Meadow has been owned by my family for over 120 years. It's an important part of the way we manage our cattle. We use other parts of the forest with forest allotments, on forest allotments, but we have used Akerson Meadow to gather the cattle in in the fall before we trail them home to winter pasture at lower elevations. Today we still graze in the neighboring lands, but our gathering pasture is smaller.

We still do all the management on horseback, rounding up and trailing the cattle. We still gather cows into the top of the, of our allotment about mid-September, sort off the calves, and hire semi-trucks to ship them to lower elevations for the winter. The mother cows are moved into adjacent land next to the current Yosemite Park, but we trail them 50 miles to their winter home in mid-October. Tourists and local Residents enjoy seeing us on horseback trailing the cattle down the state highway. We appreciate our grazing management, especially after they— they appreciate our grazing management, especially after they see how grazing helps reduce fire risk for our land and community.

And we have seen two major fires in the last 40 years. That devastated many thousands of acres of timber, vegetation, and a lot of cattle burned up too. My family owned and managed this meadow for more than 100 years before it was sold in 2016 following an estate transfer in my family. The buyer sold the 400 acres to the Trust for Public Lands, who then transferred the meadow to the Yosemite Park Service. This bill swaps two parcels of equal size between the Forest Service and the Yosemite Park Service.

The park parcel is part of what was transferred to the park in 2016, and this is what would be returned to multiple use if this bill is passed. The swap just makes sense. There is a county road, Evergreen Road, that goes right through this This portion that will swap back to the Forest Service, and it— that road does go to other private lands, a major evergreen lodge and San Francisco recreation camp called Camp Mathur. The Forest Service parcel would go to the park, and it's isolated from other forest land and surrounded on three sides right now by Yosemite Park. This swap cleans up boundaries for both agencies and makes them better able to respond to the risks like fire and public emergencies.

The land swap would allow us to restore grazing on the western part of Ackerson Meadow. That's where this road, County Road, goes through. Grazing helps keep these lands resistant to fire, drought resistant, tolerant, and keeps them healthy for our livestock and wildlife alike. I believe livestock grazing should be kept on the landscape to protect the land from all its productive uses and reduce the burden on agencies and the American people.

That's what this bill does. Thank you, Mr. McClintock, Representative from California, for Introducing this bill. Too often these administrative transfers that are good for the land and good for the people get lost in the slow government processes. Madam Chairwoman, Ranking Members, I appreciate the opportunity to share this story today, and I urge the committee to advance the bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Erickson. I will now recognize Mr. Gary Wheat, President and CEO of Visit Macon. Mr. Wheat, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

Good morning, Madam Chair, ranking and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of H.R. 9416, The redesignation of Ocmulgee Mounds as America's 64th national park and the first for the state of Georgia. I'm Gary Wheat, President and CEO of Visit Macon. The Destination Management and Tourism Organization of Macon-Bibb County, Georgia.

I've also served on the board of directors for the Ocmulgee National Park and Preserve Initiative for the past 10 years. I come before you not as an archaeologist or historian, but as someone whose responsibility it is helping communities grow, businesses succeed, and families build better futures through economic opportunity. From that perspective, I can say without hesitation that this legislation represents one of the most significant economic development opportunities in Georgia's modern history. For nearly 100 years, the people of middle Georgia have believed Ocmulgee deserved recognition as one of America's Great Places. What began in 1934 as a local vision has become a bipartisan movement supported by a broad coalition of advocates and stewards to the 17,000 years of continuous human habitation preserved at Ocmulgee Mounds.

Our partners in this endeavor are too many to mention here, but represent all levels of government, association, and advocacy networks—state, regional, and local—as well as active and civilian leadership of Robins Air Force Base and the Muscogee Creek Nation. Georgia is large—is the largest state east of the Mississippi River without a national park. Every year, millions of Americans plan vacations around our national parks. Generating billions of dollars for local communities. Yet Georgia, a state rich in American history, outdoor recreation, and cultural heritage, has never had the opportunity to fully participate in that economy.

H.R. 9416 Changes that. For generations of Georgia, this has been a dream. Today, it is an achievable opportunity. Independent economic analysis estimates that national park designation could ultimately attract an additional 1.3 million visitors to Middle Georgia every year.

Those visitors are projected to generate approximately $206 million in annual economic activity, create over 3,000 new jobs, and produce nearly $30 million in additional annual tax revenue. These are not abstract projections. They represent hotel rooms filled with families, meals in locally owned restaurants, small businesses opening their doors, and young professionals finding opportunity exists in their own community.— instead of somewhere else. For Middle Georgia, those numbers translate into careers, expanded tax revenue, stronger entrepreneurship, and a higher quality of life. With support from the Knight Foundation, we have designed a strategic plan to maximize the economic return of a national park designation while protecting the character and authenticity that make the place special.

Through the vision of local leadership, over $500 million in tourism infrastructure is being developed with Ocmulgee Mounds acting as the catalyst in the region's transition to a tourism economy. Visitation has played a vital role in rolling back property taxes already and are likely to result in the ongoing largest property tax cut in Middle Georgia history. Tourism and economic development initiatives between Macon organizations and the Muscogee Creek Nation have led to joint board representation historical curation, and economic development plans. Regional land acquisition has ensured the land surrounding the park will be conserved and protected for future generations of visitors. The designation also supports a long-term compatibility around Robins Air Force Base, one of our nation's most important military installations.

Simply put, the groundwork has already been laid. Congress is not being asked to create an opportunity Congress is being asked to unlock one that decades of local investment have already prepared. National Park is the most recognized destination brand in the world. It encourages private investment. It strengthens rural economies.

It is an opportunity to tell one of America's oldest stories while creating one of Georgia's brightest futures. This effort also demonstrates something increasingly rare in public life. It has united people who do not always agree. Mr. Madam Chair, members of the committee, our region has spent nearly a century preparing for this moment. We have built the partnerships, we have invested the resources, we have demonstrated the local commitment.

Congress is not being asked to imagine what this designation become. It is being asked to recognize what Middle Georgia has already built. We respectfully ask for your support of H.R. 9416 So Georgia can welcome its first national park. Creating lasting economic opportunity for our communities and preserving one of America's oldest stories for generations to come.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I welcome your questions. Thank you, Mr. Wheat. I will now recognize Ms. Janet McBride, executive director of the Bay Area Ridge Trail Council.

Ms. McBride, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Good morning, Madam Chair, Representative Randall, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today in support of H.R. 7254, Which would authorize a feasibility study to designate the Bay Area Ridge Trail as a National Scenic Trail. I want to express my gratitude to Representative Huffman for his leadership and to the entire Bay Area delegation for signing on as co-sponsors.

My name is Janet McBride. I'm the executive director of the Bay Area Ridge Trail Council. The ambitious mission of the Ridge Trail Council is to plan, promote, and sustain a continuous long-distance hiking, biking, and equestrian trail on the ridgelines surrounding San Francisco Bay, linking people, parks, and open space for today and for future generations. The council is a nonprofit that partners with park agencies, local governments, land trusts, and other landowners and volunteers to complete the Ridge Trail. The first section was dedicated in 1989, and today 415 miles are ready to explore and permanently protected.

And we're looking to close all the remaining gaps on about 140 miles. So to visualize the Ridge Trail route, picture a 550-mile elliptical loop tracing the ridgelines overlooking San Francisco Bay. It starts in the northernmost tip of the region in Northern Sonoma and Napa Counties. It traces the hills above the Napa Wine Country, crosses over the Carquinez Strait, runs south through the East Bay Hills, down past San Jose to Southern Santa Clara County before making the turn back up to go north across the peninsula, across San Francisco, over the Golden Gate Bridge, up through the hills, of Marin and Sonoma back up to the very top. So along the route, the trail crosses 9 counties.

It connects 145 parks, including 5 federal land units and 6 state parks. And we seek a National Scenic Trail status because it would really elevate the Ridge Trail's visibility as a world-class recreation destination, attracting new visitors from near and far. And it would help build momentum to close the remaining gaps and to protect open space and wildlife habitat in one of America's most populous regions. So the Ridge Trail aligns, uh, very closely with every benchmark in the National Trail System Act, including its length, much longer than 100 miles. It offers maximum outdoor recreation potential to a diverse urban population.

Nearly 2.5 million people live within 2 miles of the Ridge Trail, and all 8 million Bay Area residents live in relative proximity. It provides the enjoyment of nationally significant scenic, historic, and cultural qualities such as the Pacific Ocean, Muir Woods, the John Muir National Historic Site, to name just a few. It passes through diverse environments including marsh, grassland, mountain, canyon, rivers, and forests. It represents landforms that showcase significant regional characteristics like the Golden Gate Bridge, earthquake faults, volcanic areas, and many other geologic formations. And lastly, it connects with numerous side trails and connector trails that provide access to natural areas and population centers.

So examples of some of these include the San Francisco Bay Trail, the Napa Valley Wine Trail, the California Coastal Trail, uh, historic trails like the Juan Bautista de Anza Trail, and many more. So the Ridge Trail Council stands ready to support an efficient feasibility study process. We've been around for 40 years. We have a professional staff of 11. We maintain detailed databases.

Maps and information on both all the existing trail sections as well as the planned sections. And we have established relationships with all the land managing partners. We've conducted surveys of key local administrators and we've received overwhelmingly positive support from local governments, park partners across all 9 counties. And we've also coordinated with, coordinated with our local National Park Service office as well as the folks that run the National Scenic Trail program. And after months of outreach, we know of no opposition to this study or to a National Scenic Trail designation.

So we think that a feasibility study would be a prudent and logical and exciting step forward. And I respectfully ask for your support to advance the bill. Thank you for your time, and I would welcome any questions. Thank you, Ms. McBride. I will now recognize Mr. Ben Burr, Executive Director of the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

Mr. Burr, you're recognized for 5 minutes. All right, well, Madam Chair, Ranking Member, and members of the committee, thank you for being here this morning. My name is Ben Burr. I lead the Blue Ribbon Coalition, which is a national nonprofit that has fought for recreation access to our public lands since 1980. 1987.

We have members in all 50 states. And I want to start with a place that's on the front line of a broken regulatory and permitting process, which is Randsburg, California.

This little mining town, this spring, in federal— a federal court ordered about 2,200 miles of routes in California's West Mojave Desert to be closed because the Bureau of Land Management's analysis didn't satisfy the law. I'm not here to relitigate that. I'm here to tell you what it does to little towns like Randsburg that are out there in this desert. The fuel stops, the diners, the motels, and the repair shops— they live on the people who come to ride these very dirt trails that were closed. The BLM is required to reassess this route system by court order in 3 years.

The last time they did this, it took over 10. A closure that lasts years isn't a hardship they wait out. For a lot of those impacted by this delay, it's the end. A business that loses a season doesn't come back when the gates reopen. And what these towns need is hope, a reason to believe that the closure has an end date.

And that's exactly what our permitting system doesn't give them. The routes stay closed until the BLM writes a new plan. That plan takes two federal agencies and the consultation the Endangered Species Act requires. And there's no schedule, no deadline, no one accountable for finishing it. So the closure just sits there open-ended.

And that's the problem this bill solves. And it solves it with one word. There's a program called FAST-41. For almost 10 years, it's helped big infrastructure projects go through the federal permitting on a predictable scale. Projects that include energy, broadband, semiconductors.

There's 19 sectors that qualify., and recreation is not one of them. Congressman Hurd's bill adds it. With one word, they drop recreation into that list of 19 projects. And let me be clear about what it does and doesn't do. It doesn't change one line of environmental law.

It doesn't decide any permit. What it adds is coordination, a lead agency, a published timetable, deadlines that line up, and a public dashboard so everyone can see where a project stands. It's voluntary and it doesn't require a project to be huge. There's a pathway with no dollar threshold for any project complex enough to need a full environmental study or require approval from more than two agencies. These discretionary pathways could be used to benefit a broad range of recreation projects.

Let me give you two quick pictures of who this helps. First, our ski areas. When a resort on a national forest wants to add a lift or a run or expand their resorts, the Forest Service has to review it, and that now takes years. Brian Head in southern Utah is my home ski mountain, and there's an expansion that started a review last year, and the decision isn't expected until 2028. 3 Years for one resort to plan, and that's if nothing slips or gets held up.

In Colorado, Winter Park has been waiting since 2022. Target is in an expansion process that has been going on for, I believe, 7 years. Sipapu in New Mexico is facing similar challenges. We also have our reservoirs. The clearest case of all is Lake Powell, which drew almost 5 million visitors last year who spent over $500 million in nearby towns like Page, Arizona, and Kanab, Utah.

Lake Mead drew 6.5 million visitors who spent over $400 million in Boulder City and Las Vegas. Blue Mesa anchors Gunnison, Colorado, and when the water drops, the marinas get stranded and the ramps close. Every fix runs through Reclamation, the Park Service, and wildlife agencies with no schedule holding it together so that access is always a step behind the changing water lines. And here's how these things connect. The closed routes in the Mojave, the mountains waiting for years, the marinas stuck above the water line.

In every case, recreation was treated as an afterthought, and real communities are paying for it. These folks aren't asking to skip environmental review. They're asking for what every sector— all— every other sector already has: a process with a deadline, a date they can plan around. They're asking for hope, and Congressman Hurd delivers it in a single word. The Blue Ribbon Coalition supports H.R.

9248. We encourage the members of this committee to do so as well. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Burr.

I now recognize Rep. Hageman for 5 minutes on H.R. 1693. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I would like to thank the committee today for considering my bill, H.R. 1693.

This legislation would rename Casper's National Historic Trails Interpretive Center in honor of former Wyoming Representative Barbara Cuban. Representative Cuban is the first woman elected to federal office in Wyoming. Serving the state in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1995 to 2009. She served in the Wyoming State House with my father, and has been a close family friend for decades. Senator Lummis and I have known Barbara since the 1980s.

She has been a great mentor to me over the years, and I know this is true as well for Senator Lummis. Her time in this body is defined by her advocacy for Wyoming and the West. Barbara Cuban is one of the strongest political leaders in Wyoming state history, and was an inspiration to women, and political leaders across the state. She was a member of this very committee as well, where she chaired the Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources. She was founding member of the Western Caucus, a caucus of which I and many members of this committee belong to.

The honor of naming the Historic Trails Interpretive Center is appropriate because it would not exist without Barbara Cuban. Representative Cuban set a standard for public service that continues to inspire us all. I'm honored to join the Wyoming delegation in supporting this legislation to recognize her remarkable contributions to Wyoming and our nation. I would like to thank Senator Lummis for her hard work in getting the Senate companion to this bill across the finish line on the Senate side. I would like to enter into the record this letter from Cynthia, Senator Lummis, in support of this legislation, and I just wanna read one paragraph because I think it's so appropriate.

Quote, renaming the center in honor of Barbara is straightforward. It recognizes her decades of tireless public service as a trailblazer blazer for this project and many others. Her role as Wyoming's first female representative in Congress and the lasting mark she has left on our state and Western way of life. I can think of no one more worthy of having their name immortalized at these trails than Barbara Cuban, and I hope you will help us honor this trailblazer by passing H.R. 1693.

I want to thank you again, and I encourage my colleagues to support this bill to honor the legacy of the trailblazer that is Representative Barbara Cuban. Thank you.

Thank you, Rep. Hageman. I will now recognize members for 5 minutes for questions, and I'm going to start with Ms. Randall.

Thank you so much, Madam Chair, um, and thank you to all of our expert witnesses for bringing your experience to your testimony. What really impresses me about the Bay Area Ridge Trail is how it's connected to a major metropolitan area and the outdoor recreation opportunities it brings for millions of Americans, folks who live in the Bay Area and those who travel to visit. Um, I'm curious, how's the council using its programming to ensure that historically underrepresented communities in the region have access to these open spaces?

Thank you for that question. So over the last several decades, we've greatly expanded our events offerings, and last year over 3,000 people came, came out to a Ridge Trail event. And we want the trail itself, uh, the organization, all of our events, we want them to be welcoming to everyone, including folks from underrepresented communities. And so we make sure that all of our outreach, all of our social media, all of our promotional materials all represent the diversity of the Bay Area. And we also make sure that all of our major events, we offer scholarships to them so that, you know, economics is not a barrier to entry.

So those are just some of the ways that we make sure folks are welcome. Wonderful. Thanks, Ms. McBride. And my understanding is there are about 150 miles of trail left to complete the entire 550-mile loop. We have faced similar challenges with the Olympic Discovery Trail in my neck of the woods and have piecemealed together, you know, with different funding opportunities, this incredible scenic space.

What are the primary challenges you face in these final pieces, and how would a national scenic trail designation help complete the puzzle? Yep. So you're right, um, we— there are about 150 miles of gaps, and the easy sections are done, and the more difficult and challenging sections remain. And with each, um, each section along the way, it becomes that much more difficult. Some of the big challenges relate to the fact that we need major infrastructure, like we might need to get across Highway 17 or across Highway 35.

Sometimes we need to skirt across private property. So what we need to do is get a trail easement or sometimes acquire property. And what National Scenic Trail status would allow is it would first, you know, raise the awareness so more people would know about it. It would help attract more resources. We hope that it would give us a competitive advantage when we go after grants and private funding.

To, to secure the resources that would be needed to complete those gaps. Wonderful. And lastly, a primary concern often raised with new federal designations is the potential long-term fiscal and management burden placed on the federal government. And the Trump administration's testimony states that it doesn't support studying new trail designations because It's focused on addressing deferred maintenance, though I'll mention that we had a hearing a while ago, um, in which we saw that a lot of the deferred maintenance money was being pulled out of the national deferred maintenance projects to put into DC projects like the reflecting pool, and that's been rough. Um, but can you describe the role that your organization and organizations like the Bay Area Ridge Trail Council and other partners play in the maintenance and stewardship so that the entire burden wouldn't fall on the federal government?

Right. So the Ridge Trail is and would continue to be owned and managed by 40 different land managing partners, largely regional park districts, but also land trusts, municipalities, a handful of private properties, and National Scenic Trails status wouldn't change any of that. At all. It wouldn't, it wouldn't be a new trail. It just would be simply making this a National Scenic Trail.

And then also, as I mentioned, we, the Ridge Trail Council, stands ready to really support the feasibility study process. We really do have extensive information, data, maps, and so they wouldn't be starting from scratch in doing a feasibility study. We're really far down the line, so we think that could be a very efficient process. Yes. Wonderful.

Thank you so much, Ms. McBride.

The chair now recognizes Mr. Fulcher for 5 minutes of questioning. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Burr, a question for you having to do with ski resorts. We've got a very, very popular ski resort on a federal lease just outside of Boise in Idaho. And in your testimony, you had discussed some of the issues that ski resorts run into when waiting for an elongated period of time due to permitting. Are you aware of any proposed resorts that have actually have just not come to fruition at all as a function of that permitting? Or lack thereof?

If I'm understanding the question correctly, so a ski resort that doesn't currently exist that's been proposed and hasn't been constructed? Yes, as a function of the inability to get permits. Yeah, that has to be the case because we haven't built new ski resorts for decades in this country. We're mostly left with what previous generations have built before us, and I'm not aware of any new major ski resort that's been built in my lifetime. Neither am I.

That's why I thought that you, you might be familiar with that. But it's in, in our state anyway, uh, that's, that's an ongoing struggle. And, uh, any counsel as we move forward on how we can improve that process, please communicate, because, um, we're attempting to make revisions and, and make that easier, but it's It's not been an easy issue, so thank you for that. Mr. Erickson, shifting gears a little bit, you had talked about the Rim Fire, the 2013 Rim Fire in your testimony. And I wanna just, given your background, ask if there would have been a more robust grazing policy, do you think that would have happened, and do you think to what extent that might be different than how it turned out?

Um, let's try the— maybe try the on/off button one more time on that, because—. Okay, now, now try it again.

I guess just speak up.

Hang on just a second, let's see if we can fix your mic. Am I doing something wrong? I think that's it. That works. Oh, you're sure?

Okay, thanks for your microphone. Would it have been any difference with more grazing? Yes. You know, I don't really know. When that fire started on the Clavey River, The Cal Fire came in to help them and they could have put it out at 200 acres, I was told.

The Forest Service told them to leave. They left and they came back 2 days later and it was about 400 acres. The Forest Service told them to go back, we'd take care of it. So then it got into the trees going up the side of the mountain and ended up burning over 250,000 acres. So I don't know that any more grazing would have stopped it in that situation, because once the fires start up the mountain, they can go very, very fast.

So, and down there in that canyon, there was, there weren't any cattle, I don't suppose any, but just grazing grass, it does help. But once it gets in the pine trees, It goes. Are you familiar with the pine trees? Maybe you are, sir. I'm familiar.

Okay. Were you familiar out there? I come from the state of Idaho. We burn up about a million acres a year, and it's usually pine trees. But there's also some fuel load issues with grazing, which is why I was asking the question.

Say that again, please? That's okay. I think I got the idea. I'm gonna transition over to Mrs. Sayre. Okay.

Thank you. You talked about the clubhouse restoration, and I just wanted to get a little bit more information on that. To what extent do you— has the need to address federal revisionary interest in these parcels that may have already delayed that process of restoration for a while? Right. It would be such a simple fix if we could just release that, that pervading thing and be able to buy that land so that we can move forward.

Our city government for the last 3 or 4 city managers has refused to do anything to restore or maintain that building because we don't own the land. And we can't own the land because of the federal grant that was when the railroad first bought that property in the 1800s is still in force. So it will take an act of Congress for us to be able to purchase that land from the railroad. And they're ready to do that. And that's what's keeping us from moving forward.

And putting the efforts into restoring the building because we don't own the land. Okay, all right. Thank you. I think that concludes my testimony or my commentary, and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Bishop.

The Chair— or thank you, Mr. Fulcher. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Bishop for 5 minutes for questioning.

I'd just like to ask Mr. Wheat if he would just emphasize the tremendous impact that the redesignation of the Ocmulgee Mounds National Park redesignation as a national park would have for our area and for the state economically and culturally.

Thank you, Congressman Bishop. I appreciate the opportunity to answer this question and And obviously, from a cultural perspective, the Muscogee Creek Nation, that was their ancestral homes that they were forcibly removed and contains 17,000 years of continuous human habitation. For us, that's the significance of that and the relationship with the Muscogee Creek Nation. But also from a standpoint of economic development, we've discussed the 3,000+ jobs, the $206 million in additional spending each year., as well as the $30 million increase in tax revenues. That means a lot to Middle Georgia, in so much that our coalition is comprised of city, county, Middle Georgia Regional Commission, Robins Air Force Base.

All these components and partners come together to create a coalition that understands and agrees on the significance of this redesignation for Middle Georgia and what it means to the economy and the economies in Middle Georgia as a whole.

Mr. Wheat, I had the opportunity the first time I attended the, the Macon Cherry Blossom Festival, and the festival invited the Chiefs of the Muscogee Creek Nation to come to the festival. And that has been a recurring event and invitation for many years now since I've been representing the area over 3 decades. And I had an opportunity to sit next to the chief, and I did not know He seemed to be very, very perturbed, and he actually was sitting there weeping during the ceremony. And when I had an opportunity to talk with him, he talked about the impact that it had on him to be able to visit the Ocmulgee National Mounds, to know that that was his ancestral lands prior to the Trail of Tears.

And so, for a solid hour, he had been just weeping at the experience. Subsequent to that, the City of Macon, now the Macon-Vibb Consolidated Government, has designated as a sister city to the Muscogee Creek Nation, and it flies the Muscogee Creek flag over the city. And has welcomed and embraced the progenitors of the Muscogee Creek Nation who have been consultants and who are actually very, very supportive of the expansion. So, can you talk about the annual visits that we have there, the powwows that take place? Yes, sir.

The relationship with the Muscogee Creek Nation grows stronger each year, and just this past weekend we sent a delegation from Macon to their annual festival, which was their 50th, and it's an opportunity for leaders of our community to be able to engage with leaders and citizens of their nation. Each year we host the Okmulgee Indigenous Celebration, which brings in about 250 to 300 citizens of the nation back to the homeland. One another project that we've done is our street signs downtown not only have the English version of the street, but also the Creek translation, which, as you mentioned, the flag flies over City Hall. And I think the relationship only continues to grow and strengthen because we have that Okmulgee to Okmulgee, Oklahoma relationship, and we're very proud of that and very proud to see where it goes as far as culturally, economically, and being able to be a part of their nation as well as welcome them back to their ancestral homeland. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Wheat. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Bishop.

The chair now recognizes Mr. Stauber for 5 minutes of questioning. Thank you, Chairwoman Malloy. Mr. Burr, thank you for your testimony today. In your written testimony, you referenced that when recreational access on federal lands is suddenly cut, It has a significant negative impact on the small businesses that are the lifeblood of the gateway communities near these lands. When these businesses have to close and lay off employees because of these sudden closures, are there typically other employment opportunities within that local community that individuals can turn to for work?

In many cases, there is not. I can assure you that in Randsburg, California, the only industry is tourism. I have spoken directly with members of the community of Page, Arizona, who used to have high-paying jobs at the coal-fired power plant in the area. That plant was closed, and they transitioned into setting— to running recreation-focused businesses. But then when the water levels in Lake Powell drop and those recreation amenities are inaccessible so that the public can't come recreate on that lake, that hurts their business, which was their backup plan from the other jobs that were lost.

And something we're seeing happen throughout communities in the West is that recreation is the number one industry driving the economy of these small towns. And every single one of them need that infrastructure to be guaranteed. They need certainty around the regulatory processes that allow the public to come and enjoy these lands and waters. And we believe this HR 9248 would create that. But, you know, given these communities' proximity to the federal lands, is it safe to say other industries or businesses that may operate in or around these gateway communities are likely also tied to the same federal lands?

Yes, they absolutely are. I mean, we— I mean, one of the— what we would consider to be recreation infrastructure are our trail systems, which in most cases tends to be very primitive dirt roads that give broad access into our public land system. And I know our grazing permittees use the same infrastructure to go and access their range improvements. I know that the other— the forest fire firefighters will use this same access to go and protect our communities from devastating wildfires. And so this infrastructure does serve multiple-use purposes, but it certainly also builds our recreation economies that make the— these communities around our public lands a great place to live when it all works well.

Yeah, being from northern Minnesota, I get what you just said. And it is safe to say that these industries and businesses are likely to face many of the same challenges from our broken permitting system given their operation on our federal lands? Yes, they absolutely would. And many of those also have the same— they're on the list of the FAST-41 industries that are allowed to go through this permitting process. And we think that makes everything fair to allow recreation to also be on that list.

Absolutely. It's clear that entire communities and entire local community economies, rather, are at the mercy of our broken permitting system, and that is not right. When we can't permit projects, people lose their jobs and lose their livelihoods, and too often there isn't much else these individuals in gateway communities can turn to for work. That leads to rural communities drying up and turning into ghost towns. I think FAST-41 has been a tremendous success over the past decade.

It has not cut corners. It has not waived environmental protections. FAST-41 has simply created efficiencies in our federal permitting system, allowing important projects to get online faster. An expansion of FAST-41 to include recreation projects will give these small gateway communities an important lifeline. And I'm proud to support H.R.

9248 And want to thank Representative Hurd for his work on this bill. It has the potential to give small rural gateway communities a shot in the arm, including those in northern Minnesota, allowing them to grow their economies and ensure that they are not left behind. Miss Madam Chair, I yield back.

Thank you, Mr. Stauber. Chair now recognizes Mr. Scott for 5 minutes of questioning. Thank you, Madam Chair. And, um, I want to say a special thank you to, uh, Chief Hill and the Muscogee Creek Nation. They've been very good to work with.

Uh, Tracy as well has done tremendous work on this legislation for many years and been, uh, very professional and a true asset in trying to get us across the finish line. Um, Mr. Wheat, do you have any Any further comments? I know we've talked extensively about the economic development and the value to the, to the, to the Muscogee Creek Nation.

If you have any further comments, this is the time. If not, well, thank you, Representative Scott. Obviously, for us in Middle Georgia, this is a golden opportunity for this redesignation. It is something that the Muscogee Creek Nation supports. It will help our community develop in a place that has been a section of our community that's been economically challenged, as well as add jobs and create a gateway community to a national park, which would be Georgia's first national park, which for me, I think that's a goal to not only become America's newest national park, but Georgia's first.

So we thank you for your support, and Congressman Congressman Bishop's support of H.R. 9416 And getting that across the finish line and that designation. Well, thank you. And Mr. Burr, I want you to know that Congressman Bishop and I have both worked with the Georgia Department of Natural Resources to make sure that recreational opportunities are going to be available and expanded through that area. And I appreciate the work you do.

I'm very concerned about the lack of recreational opportunities that the American citizens have. And it seems to be going in the wrong direction, not the right direction. And it has a devastating impact on those businesses, as well as just the opportunity for someone to take their families out. And so I'll, I'll finish with this. And before I yield back, and this is not the purpose of me being here, but, you know, I was disappointed to see that the snapper season was eliminated for the recreational angler off of the East Coast.

Are you aware of that?

I was not aware of that, but we will look into it. Yeah, the, the red snapper season was eliminated. Unfortunately, the courts up here in Washington, D.C. sided with commercial anglers. Anyway, with that, again, I want to thank Chief Hill and the Muscogee Creek and the committee for their work on this issue and certainly Would appreciate favorable consideration of it when the time comes. And with that, Madam Chair, I yield the remainder of my time.

Thank you, Mr. Scott. I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning. And, and I want to start by asking unanimous consent to insert into the record a statement from the National Ski Areas Association and a letter from the Mountain Capital Partners, both in support of H.R. 9248, The Recreation Permitting Improvement Act. On behalf of my colleague, Mr. Hurd.

Without objection.

Mr. Burr, I'm going to start with you. That's probably not a surprise to you. For the rest of you, he and I actually live in the same part of the state. We, we live maybe 20 or 30 miles apart, and I don't know if it was deliberate that he used a lot of examples that hit really close to home for me, but when you mentioned that Brian Head is your ski resort, it's also mine. I used to be a season pass holder there.

But I appreciate what you said about how HR 9248 doesn't alter environmental laws or predetermine any permitting outcomes. It creates efficiencies and tries to give communities some certainty. And you also talked in one of your answers about a pattern I know we're both really familiar with. There are these small towns around southern Utah where we live and other parts of the country where they used to have resource-dependent economies, whether it was mining or timber or grazing or a combination of all of that. And through federal land management, a lot of that resource economy has gone away.

And our neighbors are resilient. They're from pioneer stock and they adjust. So they learned to be part of the recreation economy and they, they learned to invite tourists to their towns. And now because of federal land management, that tourism economy is being threatened. And there are only so many ways you can adapt in some of these places before they become ghost towns.

And we are surrounded by ghost towns as well. We know this pattern well. So if, in your opinion, how much time and money do you think could have been saved in the time that Fast 41 has been around? If recreation had been an eligible sector the entire time.

Yeah, I will say, I mean, the one example we can look at that actually has clear numbers to support this is Lake Powell. I mean, we can look at the National Park Service's economic data that they release by each park, and you can see that when there are low water years at Lake Powell, when that recreation infrastructure that is now inaccessible during low water years means the visitors can't come there. We see hundreds of millions of dollars get lost through that area around Page in Arizona, Kanab, Utah. But I'm also very close to the Boat Dealers Association and the folks that are selling the motorboats and houseboats, the other— the vehicles that make it possible to go recreate on that lake. And they're not counted in the National Park Service's figures.

And they're selling boats in Arizona or Salt Lake City. And, and so I think that just a reservoir like Lake Powell has an economy that's measured in the billions. And when that recreation infrastructure is not accessible, we're looking at costs in the hundreds of millions every year when that's not available. Um, we've seen similar things happen in Moab, where conflict around its recreation access has led to decreased visitation by in its tourism sector, and that has undermined its county's operating budgets. And so we've been promised that the outdoor recreation economy can be a viable replacement for all these other economies and economic sectors that you mentioned, and that's been a hard promise for those making that promise to uphold.

I mean, we definitely want recreation to succeed and thrive, but if we're not letting it succeed, if we're not giving it clear permitting pathways to operate, it's going to have a hard time surviving. And so this is a small fix. As, as you mentioned, it just creates coordination and streamlining. There are other factors that will also create pressure, but we certainly support this one. And I really appreciated the real-world examples you used of rural areas that have struggled.

How do you think the outcomes in some of those places would have been different for the affected communities if they had just had transparency and predictability in outcomes? I would love to see them thriving. I know a lot of people who want to just have great big visions for building these towns up. They want to invest a lot of resources into these communities and turn them into great places to come visit. I know if you guys haven't come to southern Utah where Representative Malloy and I live, we would love to showcase our city.

State to you. There's— it's an amazing experience, and there are others who want to make that more amazing, but the permitting process prevents a lot of that. And so I know the communities want to invest and grow, and that's what we want to see. Thank you. I know that's true, and I was at Lake Powell just a few weeks ago, and one of their concerns is that in the recreation community, rumors spread quickly.

So even the perception that access is being denied starts to impact the economies of these towns. So I appreciate your testimony, and I'm sorry I didn't get to any of the rest of you. And I will now recognize Mr. McClintock for 5 minutes of questioning. Um, apologize for my absence, uh, Mr. Erickson. I'll simply, uh, ask, is there anything you'd like to add?

I'm sorry, did you ask me a question? Yes, I mean, is there anything else that you'd like to tell the committee that hasn't already been covered. No, I don't think so. You pretty well covered it all. And the other gentleman asked about would grazing have stopped the Rim Fire.

No, I don't think so. Nothing could hardly stop it at that point because once it gets in the timber, it can go for miles and doesn't take any time. That's a question of timber management that the federal government has completely completely botched up since we started passing these environmental laws in the 1970s that have made active forest management all but impossible. But the grazing does keep brush growth down, does it not? Yes, sir, it helps.

It doesn't eliminate the possible—. It helps in forest land and it's everything in brush land. We used to do enormous grazing throughout the Santa Monica Mountains in Southern California. We stopped doing that because of all the environmental restrictions, and we ended up with the Palisades Fire. Yes, sir.

So grazing is an important part of land management and fire management, and that's why I'm so pleased to carry this bill on behalf of the ranchers here in your region. So with that, I'll yield back. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. McClintock. And I'd like to thank all the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions today.

Members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for our witnesses today, and we'll ask that they respond to these in writing. Under Committee Rule 3, members of the subcommittee must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. on Tuesday, July 7th, 2026. The hearing record will be held open for 10 business days for these responses. If there's no further business, without objection, the Subcommittee on Federal Lands stands adjourned.