Senate Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining (Murkowski): Hearings to examine S.1791, to designate certain special management areas, wildlife conservation areas, protection areas, recreation areas, wilderness areas, and a scientific research and education area in the State of Colorado, S.4200, to promote conservation, improve public land, and provide for sensible development in Douglas County, Nevada, S.4239, to require the Secretary of the Interior to annually submit to Congress, and make publicly available on a website, a report on decommissioning offshore oil and gas wells, platforms, and pipelines, S.4383, to appoint a Geothermal Ombudsman and establish a Geothermal Permitting Task Force from within the Bureau of Land Management, S.4410, to amend the Mineral Leasing Act to provide for the payment of bonus payments of certain coal leases issued under that Act, S.4458, to establish the Caja del Rio Special Management Area and Caja del Rio National Conservation Area in the State of New Mexico, S.4561, to modernize and streamline the permitting process for broadband infrastructure on Federal land, S.4605, to amend the Geothermal Steam Act of 1970 to provide cost-recovery authority for the Department of the Interior, S.4715, to amend the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act to establish fitness to operate standards and decommissioning escrow accounts for offshore oil and gas operators, H.R.655, to direct the Secretary of Agriculture to convey certain Federal land to the City of The Dalles, Oregon, S.4960 and H.R.1687, to amend the Geothermal Steam Act of 1970 to increase the frequency of lease sales, to require replacement sales, H.R.4090, to codify certain provisions of certain Executive Orders relating to domestic mining and hardrock mineral resources, S.4975 and H.R.5587, to amend the Geothermal Steam Act of 1970 to waive the requirement for a Federal drilling permit for certain activities, to exempt certain activities from the requirements of the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, H.R.5631, to appoint a Geothermal Ombudsman and establish a Geothermal Permitting Task Force from within the Bureau of Land Management, and H.R.7831, to amend the Mineral Leasing Act to extend the period of time during which the Secretary of the Interior is required to collect a fee for each new application for a permit to drill.

Good afternoon and thank you all for being here. We have several bills on the agenda, but first I would like to defer to my friend and colleague from Colorado. The senator from Colorado, Senator Bennet. I know you're on a very tight timeframe and I know you have a very important piece of legislation with which you would like to discuss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm very, very grateful that you, the ranking member, and Senator Heinrich are here today, and thank you for allowing me to speak about an iconic Colorado landscape and the Gunnison Outdoor Resources Protection Act, a bipartisan bill that Senator Hickenlooper Representative Hurd and I have championed to protect it. The Gunnison Basin is quintessentially Colorado, with spectacular alpine wildflowers, towering peaks, and lush forests. These public lands support a legacy of family ranching, cutting-edge scientific research, and world-class outdoor recreation. They are critical headwaters of the Colorado River, including some of the most productive big game habitat in our state and are home to a number of at-risk species. Over a decade ago, I stood on the banks of the Slate River in the Gunnison Basin and promised the local community that if they could agree on a shared vision to protect this landscape, I would carry a bill to help make that vision a reality.

And they did. Ranchers, conservationists, sportsmen, Snowmobilers, dirt bikers, mountain bikers, water users, and local elected officials spent hours, months, many of them as volunteers, poring over maps and walking these lands together to find common ground. And since those initial conversations, we worked with 7 counties in western Colorado, some led by Democrats and some led by Republicans, Colorado's tribes, and the general public. These conversations reflect a broad vision for the landscape, bipartisan agreement on common-sense solutions, and ultimately strong support for the Gunnison Outdoor Resource Protection Act, or as we call it, the GORP Act. GORP includes 8 different land management designations reflecting the unique values on this landscape.

The legislation does not close any roads or trails and maintains existing uses of the lands. Right now, Colorado is reeling from fires across our state, and I know my colleagues on this dais are incredibly sensitive to the challenges that we're all facing in the western United States. The Gold Mountain and Elk Fires are burning on lands within and adjacent to the Gore Pact. The coalition that developed this legislation anticipated the realities of hotter, drier conditions that are driving fires like those and included measures to try to help address them, to look ahead, to prepare for the future. GORP ensures federal land managers who can continue to fight fires with all the available tools and includes provisions to continue hazardous waste reduction work.

As evidence of the broad coalition behind this legislation, I've brought over two dozen letters of support from local governments, tribes, public land users, and over 100 local businesses. I'd ask, Mr. Chairman, unanimous consent to enter these letters into the record. Without objection, they are entered. Thank you, Chairman. And I ask the committee for your support in advancing this legislation.

The broad bipartisan grassroots consensus that underlies GORP should be a model, I think, for the type of legislation that we champion and pass in the Senate. And thank you very much for your time. And Mr. Chairman, thank you again for your kindness in allowing me to kick off this important hearing. Well, we appreciate your testimony and your comments, and thank you. We look forward to hearing from others today, and they will testify as well.

We're grateful for your leadership, Senator Bennet. And so thank all of you for being here. We have several bills on the agenda in addition to Senator Bennet's, and Look forward to hearing from the witnesses to discuss each of them. And I want to take a brief moment to thank, uh, Senator Cortez Masto. She's been an incredible partner on this subcommittee, and I'd like to touch on a couple of bills on today's agenda.

First is S.4410. It's my bill to amend the Mineral Leasing Act. It provides for the deferred payment of bonus bids for coal leases. There's essentially been no new leasing in Wyoming's Powder River Basin since 2012. This is a result of the past administration's regulatory attacks and their moratorium on coal mining.

As a result, Wyoming coal companies have relied exclusively on mining their current reserves, and they're gonna run out by 2039 or earlier. At the same time, the demand for electricity continues to rise at a dramatic rate. Reliable baseload power generated by coal can meet this demand. It's only possible if federal coal is economical to mine. We've stopped malicious regulatory attacks on coal, and we're investing in new power plants and in export infrastructure.

The Working Families Tax Cuts Act also slashed federal coal royalties from 12.5% to 7%. Still, new leasing lags behind, and it's unfairly weighed down by an outdated and burdensome bidding process. To win a lease sale, coal companies must submit sealed bonus bids that equal or exceed an unknown fair market value. Bids that come in less than this unknown magic number are rejected. That means companies must bid high to ensure success and outcompete other bidders, as well as above the minimum.

Then they need to pay the bonus bid over the next several years. It takes at least that long to get a permit for a new mine, so they pay the thing off before they even get a permit to mine. So this is all before the lease ever generates any revenue at all. So let me tell you how badly the last administration attacked coal production in the United States. 2016 Bonus bid payments to the Treasury totaled over $340 million.

2025 Bonus payments just totaled $6,400. $343 Million to $6,000. You know, my bill, S.4410, will change that decline. It allows bonus bid payment schedules to account for our needlessly burdensome permitting process. It does this by allowing companies to pay their bonus bids over 10 years instead of 5.

That means that new leases can generate revenue that offsets the costs. Companies must still pay the full value of their bids, and they can simply defer some cost later when their mine actually has some revenue. That makes more financial sense, uh, in the 2026 economy. So I reject the idea that we need 5 years to permit a new mine. This committee is currently working to reform the permitting process.

In the meantime, this is a crucial step to incentivize mining again. It will unlock needed Wyoming energy. The other bill I'm pleased to see on the agenda is S.4561, the Close the Gap Act. It has to do with broadband applications. This bill directs federal land management agencies to develop regulations to streamline the process for broadband applications.

It also removes barriers to improving existing communications infrastructure. The burdensome and outdated permitting process is causing unnecessary delays in connecting folks across rural America. The National Telecommunications and Information Administration is beginning to distribute funding to states for Broadband Equity Access and Deployment, BEAD projects. It's vital that the permitting process does not hinder the the buildout of critical communications infrastructure. My bill is a solution to these challenges, and I want to thank Senator Lummis and Senator Curtis for supporting it.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses for coming today and look forward to hearing, uh, for each of your testimony. Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso. I too feel the opportunity to thank you for working with me always on this subcommittee and on committee as well. I also want to thank Chairman Lee and Ranking Member Heinrich for of the full committee for agreeing to hold today's legislative hearing.

There's 15 bills today that we are going to be hearing. I'd like to talk about a couple of them. One is S. 4200. It is an important piece of legislation for Douglas County in Nevada. It is the Douglas County Economic Development Conservation Act.

This is a critical bill for the constituents of Douglas County in my home state of Nevada. I introduced this bill working with Douglas County to improve the management of the Carson Valley floodplain, to enhance stormwater management in this area that has seen repeated devastating floods, to promote conservation, to improve public lands management, to protect important tribal cultural sites, and expand limited yet focused economic development opportunities in Douglas County, Nevada. The bill is a culmination of the extensive collaboration between local officials stretching back to 2009, with the earliest bill being introduced in 2013. This bill includes the support of Nevada's entire delegation, including Congressman Mark Amodei in the House, and it also represents the Nevada style of legislating our local land management needs, bringing people together, identifying land use needs, and making compromises. It includes support from local government, the local business community, conservationists, including Friends of Nevada Wilderness, and the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California.

The bill specifically does the following. It conveys 67 acres to the state of Nevada to be managed within the Lake Tahoe Nevada State Park. It conveys 7,777 acres to the county for local flood control management and recreation, directs the sale of 31 acres whose revenue will help fund flood control projects and the purchase of conservation easements to protect The valley floodplain conveys nearly 2,700 acres of important cultural sites to the Washoe Tribe and designates nearly 12,400 acres of wilderness that helps preserve prime habitat for bi-state sage grouse populations while releasing 1,065 acres from the existing wilderness study area. Again, Mr. Chairman, this is, this is how we work in Nevada. This compromise coalitions of people coming together.

And for that reason, I'd like to enter into the hearing record letters of support from the Friends of Nevada Wilderness and the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California. Without objection, they are admitted. Thank you. I also want to talk and make a few remarks about the geothermal bills that are on the agenda today. I often speak about the commitment to an all-of-the-above approach when it comes to energy, and in Nevada, geothermal energy has the potential to be a crucial part of that approach.

It already is showing that. Upon consideration today is my bill, the Geothermal Ombudsman for National Deployment and Reviews Act, and I thank Senator Risch for co-leading it with me. This would improve coordination between BLM offices and shorten permitting timelines by establishing a geothermal permitting task force led by an ombudsman whose role will be to find solutions to geothermal permitting issues on federal lands. But also on the agenda is Congressman Jeff Hurd's Geothermal Energy Advancement Act. This is a bipartisan package of 6 bills that advanced out of the House unanimously and contains my own Budzman Bill, as well as the STEAM Act that I am pleased to be leading with Senator Murkowski, which expedites geothermal permitting within previously studied areas and gives parity to geothermal development on certain permitting reviews, that is, already enjoyed by oil and gas projects.

Congressman Hurd's geothermal package is also included in the FREEDOM Act, which, uh, a permitting reform bill that Senator Cotton and I have recently introduced. While I'm very pleased that today's agenda includes so many pieces of legislation to advance geothermal deployment, I hope we'll be able to take an even deeper and more thorough look at other pending geothermal legislation that falls under the jurisdiction of this committee, including the bill that Senator Murkowski and I have introduced, which is the Next Generation Geothermal Research and Development Act. It creates an R&D roadmap for innovative geothermal technologies within the Department of Energy. I look forward to working with my colleagues to further advance this legislation, and I thank them again for this hearing. Well, thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.

As Senator Heinrich is ready to make his statement, I would ask the people who are here to testify today to please come and find your names at the table and please take your seats. Thank you. Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso and Ranking Member Cortez Masto, for organizing this legislative hearing. I'm really excited to have this opportunity to highlight a bill of mine that has been many years in the making.

The Caja del Río Protection Act is an example of a homegrown legislative product and a representation of a partnership built from common ground. And in this case, The common ground is protection for the Caja del Rio Plateau. The Caja del Rio is one of the Southwest's most culturally significant landscapes that holds deep importance for land grants, for acequia communities, for livestock permittees, and is vital to a number of tribal communities. And I cannot emphasize enough the level of traditional and cultural value that is held within this landscape. Yet threats such as desecration of petroglyphs, illegal dumping, and efforts to sell off public lands continue to endanger this plateau.

These threats have united local governments, tribes, traditional historic communities, and community organizations of all stripes to preserve the shared yet distinct heritages of the region. And as a result, we have the Caja del Río Protection Act. This bill will create two new stewardship areas: a new special management area on over 67,000 acres of U.S. Forest Service land, and a new national conservation area on over 17,000 acres of Bureau of Land Management land. It will permit traditional uses like herb and mineral gathering, hunting, and livestock grazing, and it will conserve an important wildlife corridor in New Mexico and preserve one of the most historically intact sections of El Camino Real. It prevents new rights-of-way, giving the land an opportunity to heal in this brittle area, and taken together, these measures will protect the Caja for generations to come.

This bill also begins a new chapter in the stewardship of this land, one that includes opportunities for tribes, traditional historic communities to have a voice in land management plans. This bill recognizes that stewardship works best when it is shared. I'd like to thank everyone who worked with my office in developing this proposal, and I'd like to submit a number of letters and resolutions of support from pueblos, counties, groups, elected officials, land grants, and others to show the immense coalition that is rallying behind this effort, and I'd ask unanimous consent for that. Without objection. I'd like to end my statement today with a similar sentiment to one that I have shared in the past.

This hearing and next week's National Parks legislative hearing will add to our growing list of land-based conservation bills ready for markup. Many of these bills have the same level of community support and input as my bill on the agenda today, yet those voices of support are going unheard. With only 6 months left in this Congress, it is my hope that we will see conservation bills considered in future business meetings so that we can get them marked up, passed, and finally signed into law. And I look forward to working with both of you as well as with Chairman Lee in this effort. Thank you very much, Chairman.

Thank you, Senator Heinrich. We're now going to turn to our witnesses today, and we have Leah Baker, who is here, and she is the Acting Director for the Eastern States of the Bureau of Land Management. Thank you. We have Mr. John Crockett, who is here, the Deputy Chief of State, Private and Tribal Forestry of the United States Forest Service. Thank you for being here.

We have Ms. Katie Sweeney, who's the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the National Mining Association. Thanks for being here today. And also Ms. Jennifer Davidson, who is the County Manager of Douglas County, Nevada. And so I appreciate all of you being here, and perhaps we could start with you, Ms. Baker. Okay, thank you very much, Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member Cortez Masto, members of the subcommittee, Good afternoon, members of the committee.

Thank you very much for allowing me the opportunity today to speak on behalf of the bills before you, representing the Bureau of Land Management. I have worked for the Bureau of Land Management for nearly 20 years, and I have had the privilege and honor of enjoying the entire time that I've worked there. The BLM manages approximately 245 million acres of public lands, mostly in the 12 western United States. States, and 700 million acres of subsurface mineral estate throughout the country. The Federal Land Policy and Management Act, or FLPMA, sets forth the BLM's mission of multiple use, which directs that public lands be managed for a broad range of uses such as energy development, livestock grazing, timber production, hunting, fishing, and recreation.

Under the administration, the BLM is managing the nation's public lands as national assets capable of growing the economy, helping balance the budget, and generating revenue for American taxpayers while protecting our public lands. Many of the bills on today's agenda further, further the administration's priorities, particularly those promoting energy and mineral development and providing support for local communities. With, with respect to energy and minerals, H.R. 7831 Would extend the BLM's authorization to collect oil and gas permit processing fees for 10 years. The fees are essential to supporting permitting services and maintaining timely and defensible permit reviews.

The BLM strongly supports H.R. 7831 As it advances oil and gas exploration and production to meet the energy needs of our nation.

S.4410 incentivizes coal production by deferring a portion of the startup costs as you said, Senator Barrasso, of coal operations on federal lands, and the BLM supports the bill. It would allow bonus bids for coal leases to be paid in 10 installments rather than 5, supporting the administration's work to revitalize American coal and strengthen America's energy security. H.R. 4090, Meanwhile, would require that the Secretary determine the impacts of the U.S. reliance on imported minerals. In supporting mining efficiencies.

The BLM supports H.R. 4090 And welcomes these efforts to ensure that the United States maintains its position as a global leader in energy and mineral development. Additionally, several geothermal bills before the committee offer valuable tools to streamline the development of this important energy source. Taken together, the bills would require annual competitive lease sales, ensure timely decisions on drilling applications, remove duplicative permitting, and expand categorical exclusions. They would also direct the development of a geothermal gold book and establish the ombudsman position and permitting task force to further promote development.

The BLM supports these bills as they reinforce our efforts to strengthen permitting guidance and program capacity for geothermal permitting.

Okay, with respect to public access to high-speed internet, the Close the Gap Act will help ensure that communities have access to affordable and reliable high-speed internet. It expedites the review and approval of broadband applications on federal lands. The BLM supports S.4561 as it aligns with the administration's priorities to cut red tape and accelerate approvals for infrastructure projects. Finally, while the BLM supports several land conveyances proposed in the bills on today's agenda, the BLM does not support the special designations and withdrawals as they conflict with the administration's energy and mineral security objectives. S. 4200 conveys nearly 9,000 acres of federal lands in Douglas County, Nevada, designates the Burbank Canyons Wilderness, and takes nearly 2,500 acres of federal lands into trust for the benefit of the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California.

The BLM supports the land and trust conveyances proposed in S. 4200, but does not support the bill's wilderness designation.

Similarly, the Bureau does not support S. 4458, which establishes the Caja del Rio National Conservation Area and withdraws over 100,000 acres from energy and mineral development.

Lastly, S. 1791 establishes multiple designations on over 700,000 acres of federal lands, including over 200,000 acres of BLM-managed lands in Colorado, and includes several mineral withdrawals. The BLM opposes S. 1791 as it would create unnecessary limitations on potential energy and mineral development and limit hazardous fuels management. And finally, the Department of the Interior also submitted a statement for the record on the two offshore bills on the agenda, which thankfully, as a BLM staffer, I have no jurisdiction over. So thank you very much. Um, thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to your questions.

Thanks so much for being here today. Mr. Crockett. All right, uh, Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member Cortez Masto, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for having me here to present the views of the U.S. Department of Agriculture on six bills that are under consideration pertaining to the Forest Service. My name is John Crockett, and I'm a deputy chief in the U.S. Forest Service here in our national headquarters, and I have over 28 years of experience of career service to the agency. I'll provide a brief summary on the bills on today's agenda with equities for the U.S. Forest Service, and I have submitted my full written statement for the record.

I will defer to the Department of Interior on its view views on those elements of the bill that would affect federal lands under— issued under its jurisdiction. H.R. 4090, The Critical Minerals Dominance Act, would mirror and codify several of the provisions in Executive Order 14154. These provisions include requirements for the Secretary of Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, to review and evaluate a range of policy and actions related to mining and mineral exploration on federal lands. S.4561, the Close the Gap Act, would require federal agencies to issue new regulations intended to streamline the process for broad land applications on federal lands.

The USDA appreciates congressional efforts to reduce the regulatory burden and streamline the permitting process. Both H.R. 4090 And S.4561 would support the implement— the implementation of Executive Order 14154, Unleashing American Energy, and would align with the actions under this adminis— administration to alleviate regulatory burden and streamline the permitting process. The department supports both of these bills. H.R.

655, The Dalles Watershed Development Act, seeks to simplify the administrative requirements for the City of Dalles, Oregon, to operate its municipal reservoir. The city of Dowell's municipal watershed includes the Crow Creek Dam and its reservoir, a portion of which is on the National Forest System land on the Mount Hood National Forest. Conveying this land would eliminate the city's need for a special use permit and the associated work for the city and the Forest Service staff. The department supports H.R. 655.

S.4200, the Douglas County Economic Development and Conservation Act, contains multiple provisions related to the conveyance, disposal, and transfer of lands managed by the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest and the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Union— unit, as well as provisions related to the issuance of a special use permit on lands managed by the Forest Service. The department supports the intent of the act to provide the economic development for the Douglas County, Nevada. We would appreciate the opportunity to work with the bill sponsor and the committee to provide technical assistance and legislative maps related to several sections of the bill to ensure accuracy and support implementation in the provisions.

Finally, in regards to two of the bills on today's agenda, S.1791, the Gunners and Outdoor Resource Protection Act, S.4458, the Caja del Oro Protection Act. The provisions of the bill specific to the Forest Service include significant and restrictive management designations that are contrary to the administration's priority on timber production and energy and mineral dominance. Both bills would mandate legislative requirements and restrictions for the management of the Gran Mesa, Uncompahgre, and Gunnison National Forests and Colorado and the Santa Fe National Forest in New Mexico that have respectively taken significant steps at the local level to incorporate the views and opinions on a wide range of stakeholders on their forest planning efforts. These designations are paired with permanent withdrawals that would prevent the exploration and development opportunities, and therefore the department opposes these bills. In closing, thank you again for the opportunity to appear before the committee.

And I look forward to answering any questions. Thanks so much for being here, Mr. Crockett. Sweeney. Good afternoon, Chair Barrasso, Ranking Member Cortez Masto, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate being here in support of two bills that address critical issues facing this nation.

S4410, designed to facilitate affordable and reliable energy, and H.R. 4090, To secure our mineral supply chains. Both bills leverage our nation's abundant natural resource base to benefit modern society. Chair Barrasso, your bonus bill payments bill is a straightforward approach to make the mining of federal coal more attractive without sacrificing revenues to federal and state governments. It simply shifts the timing of the payment of the bonus bid, a fee paid by a successful lease applicant on top of all other rents, fees, taxes, and royalties that are involved in federal coal leasing.

Rather than spreading the payment over 5 years, as is current practice, the legislation provides companies with 10 years, a timeframe more commensurate to when a company would likely have the permits needed to begin operations and start seeing a return on investment. This approach will incentivize new production resulting in a fresh influx of bonus bid revenue to federal and state coffers, a revenue source that has dried up over the last 15 years due to actual and de facto moratorium on federal coal leasing. It has the added benefit of providing more predictable and stable revenues over time, helpful to states like Wyoming that dedicate that income to school systems and need better budgeting certainty. Coal is a key piece of the answer to confronting skyrocketing energy demand and cost. Coal is America's most abundant energy resource.

At current consumption rates, the U.S. has more than 250 years of remaining coal reserves, much of which is federally owned and managed. U.S. power demand is expected to dramatically increase by approximately 75% by 2050. Driven by the use of artificial intelligence, electrification, construction of data centers, and uptake of EVs. According to the International Energy Agency, for data centers alone, global electricity consumption is expected to double— by more than double— by 2030. The nation needs far more electricity, and it needs it fast.

The NMA also strongly supports H.R. 4090, Representative Stauber's Critical Mineral Dominance Act, which passed the House with bipartisan support. This legislation builds on executive— presidential executive orders and presents a comprehensive and multifaceted approach to securing our mineral supply chains. These supply chains are highly concentrated in China and are increasingly vulnerable to manipulation and disruption. According to the U.S. Geological Survey Mineral Commodity Summaries in 2026, The U.S. continued to be 100% import reliant for 16 minerals and is reliant on imports for more than one half of the U.S. consumption of 54 non-fuel mineral commodities.

Our economic and national security and the ability to innovate are absolutely reliant on access to minerals, both the ability to get them out of the ground and to process them into final products. By adopting policies included in H.R. 4090, With its focus on understanding import reliance trends, increasing permitting certainty, boosting byproduct production, and improving geologic mapping, we can successfully de-risk and decouple our mineral supply from foreign adversaries. We have significant advantages here in the United States, a vast mineral endowment, a highly skilled workforce, world-leading safety, labor, and environmental standards, existing infrastructure, and renewed administration and congressional focus and support. Permitting efficiencies are paramount.

Today it takes an average of 29 years to bring a new mine online in America, the longest of almost all nations, driving increased import reliance and making it more difficult for domestic producers to compete globally. Adversaries like China are already exploiting this vulnerability as they dominate the sourcing, processing, and supply of global mineral markets. The mining industry looks forward to working with the subcommittee to advance these two important bills, as well as other critical legislation under the committee's purview, including the Bipartisan Mining Regulatory Clarity Act. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to answering any questions. Thanks so much for all your comments.

Ms. Davidson.

Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member Cortez Masto, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Jennifer Davidson, and I am the County Manager for Douglas County, Nevada. I want to thank Senator Cortez Masto for her leadership on this bill, Senator Rosen for her steadfast support, and Congressman Amadei for his partnership in the House. I am here in strong support of Douglas County Economic Development and Conservation Act, Senate Bill 4200. Douglas County is home to the state's first town and its first ranches, but most of the land in our county is federally owned, and for decades that has constrained our ability to manage lands for stormwater and flood protection and to access lands for recreation.

Our goals through this bill are clear: advance flood control and stormwater management, preserve open space, enhance recreation, protect the rural character and quality of life, safeguard the floodplain, and honor the rich cultural heritage of our region, of our region, in partnership with the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California. For me, this is personal. I have served Douglas County for nearly 20 years. In my tenure, this county has experienced 5 100-year flooding events. In flood years, I am 500 years old.

Flooding is our reality, and the most pressing driver for this legislation is flood protection. Last September, a 4-foot wall of water trapped the residents of Roonstroth, closed Highway 395, and damaged 14 homes. Although the rain did not fall on the residents there, the storm fell on public land to the east and funneled down Smelter Creek. Its force sharply increased by the Conner Fire, which had burned 26% of the 14,000-acre drainage basin. In 2014 and again in 2015, back-to-back floods, flash floods drove mud and debris through the Johnson Lane neighborhood.

And in 2023, a March rain-on-snow event combined alluvial and river flooding, inundated public infrastructure, and threatened the towns of Minden and Gardnerville. Homes built in these areas were often not in the floodplain at the time they were constructed. And many are still uninsured against the alluvial flash flooding that now reaches them. In 2024, the county consolidated years of drainage studies into a comprehensive stormwater master plan. We identified and ranked over $100 million in flood control projects that would directly benefit these neighborhoods and others.

The major barrier is accessing the land to build them. S-4200 conveys land so that we can manage the alluvial fans that carry stormwater from the Pine Nut Mountains into our communities. Today, the federal government lacks the staff and resources to build this infrastructure itself. The county has actively pursued administrative solutions to access the land we need through BLM's Recreation and Public Purposes Act. That leasing process works acre by acre and would take years, even decades, that we do not have to complete.

That is precisely why congressional action is critical. This bill lets us act now under our own adopted local plan, protecting lives and property. S. 4200 also lets us manage land use responsibly. For 150 years, the open ranch land along the Carson River has served as a natural safety valve, protecting thousands of residents and saving hundreds of millions of dollars by spreading floodwater over pasture instead of through our towns. This bill will retain this system by helping to conserve this land.

Douglas County limits building permits and manages growth so that it does not conflict with our zoning or stormwater plans. For this reason, any federally land identified for disposal under the Carson Resource Management Plan must be jointly selected before it can be sold or developed in our county. The bill also strengthens our, our economy and quality of life. It conveys land solely for public purposes so that we can improve access to parks, trailheads, and campgrounds. And maintain them where the Forest Service cannot.

Many of these recreation areas have been closed for years for lack of federal resources. Every acre we receive carries a reversion clause. If used for anything but a public purpose, it returns to the United States. The bill honors our partnership with the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California, conveying sacred cultural sites, including Dance Hill, into trust for— to protect cultural resources and support the tribe's economic vitality. The legislation balances conservation with access, designating the Burbank Canyon Wilderness Area protecting habitat for the bi-state grouse while permanently keeping existing roads open for outdoor recreation.

Members of the subcommittee, this bill solves problems that grow more urgent with every year. Douglas County has done the work. We have built the consensus. Now we need Congress to finish the job. I respectfully urge swift passage of the Douglas County Lands Bill.

Thank you, and I welcome your questions. Well, thank you very much. And you want swift passage? You've already been 500 years waiting. So it's a— we hope to move faster than that.

But thank you. Thanks so much for all your testimony. Thank you all for being here. I'm sure we're going to have a minute question by each of the members who are here. I'm going to start and ask you, Ms. Sweeney, if I could, talking about this, the bill that I have.

The coal— if a coal company wins a lease sale and you're very familiar with this, it's still usually takes at least 5 years of delay before it receives even a permit to start mining. So you can't make any money during that time, but you're having to pay, uh, right away once you, you win the, the bid. The, um, so the, the change that we're proposing— this bill allows companies to pay over an extended period of time. You still have to start paying right away even though you don't have the thing, so that it just extends it over time. You still pay the full value —of the bid.

Now it's just going to actually make more financial sense, it seems. If we assume this bill is passed and the BLM announces sales for new leases, how do you think that would affect revenue coming in and coal leasing in general?

I definitely think it incentivizes new interest in federal coal leasing. I think you'll see more companies expressing interest in bidding. I— having that allocated over 10 years provides more certainty. It gives them the time to get into production and make a return on their investment. So it's not all sunk upfront costs.

So it makes more business sense and provides that kind of budgeting certainty that companies require. I'm trying to figure out how you come up with a number of how much to bid. And because you have this, this kind of the secret number that's confidential that they, that the BLM comes up with, uh, coal companies doesn't know what that is. The public in general doesn't learn what the value, what that is. Uh, they come up with a number and you have to submit a sealed bid.

You're the highest bidder, you say, well, what did I not know that everybody else figured out that they bid lower? But you've won that and you paid the bonus And we're talking about, I understand, hundreds of millions of dollars in some of these bids. So we're not talking just a little incremental difference. And then if any bid is lower than the secret number that they've come up with, you just lose. And you can't bid on that again.

You have to wait for another sale to come up at a later time. When you work with other companies, how do you get to improve the bidding process, specifically the determination of fair market value and how you can make more intelligent decisions and the government could make more revenue. Is there something that you recommend? Yeah, there's definitely room for improvement. I think that the situation is very complicated by the fact that we had these coal moratoriums, so you don't have comparable lease sales anymore.

So we have to really understand the new realities of the coal markets, um, cost, prices, um, and all of those will feed into that fair market value number. But we don't have the data anymore because we haven't had any lease sales for so long. So I think there are some room for, uh, industry and Congress and the federal government working together to find some solutions on what those inputs would be. Not that every company needs to know exactly what to bid, because of course we want to protect the integrity of the process. But there has to be, I think, some more concrete understanding of the components that go into the fair market value determination.

Good. All right. Thank you. Ms. Baker, you've been watching that with great interest. Anything you want to comment on that?

Then I'm going to ask you a question about broadband.

Thank you, sir. The Bureau of Land Management, as I mentioned in the testimony, does support this bill. We agree that the spreading out of the cost for the companies over a decade as opposed to 5 years will help incentivize additional competition in the market, hopefully bring more folks into the, into the business. Anything else on how you kind of come up with a fair market value? Like you just said, you know, if there haven't been sales in a long period of time, it's hard to know what a fair market price is.

So establishing fair market value is not my area of expertise. I've observed it in coal lease sales in my role in BLM Eastern States, but I don't have any specific position on that. And we could certainly pull some information on our current process Sure. Um, and return—. I think that'd just be helpful for all of us to understand how it works.

With regard to the broadband, would you agree that rural states are going to face some serious challenges in meeting the 4-year Broadband Equity Access and Deployment, the BEAD, build-out timeframe unless we really have some significant permitting reforms? Yes, sir. It's my understanding that with a lot of the broadband permitting under the BEAD requirements that the Bureau of Land Management doesn't receive the application until year 3 of the 4-year process. So that means that there's only 1 year left to process the permits. We've discussed permitting delays, and yes, that can provide or can create a significant burden for rural communities.

Great. Thank you. Senator Cortez Mastiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Ms. Davidson, getting back to Senate Bill 4200, the Clark County— excuse me, the Douglas County Lands bill.

Clearly part of the urgent driver to advance the bill is the flood protection, correct? Yes, ma'am. And why is that essential? Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto, for your question. As I mentioned, our community is in a bowl.

The Carson River runs through it. We are surrounded on all sides by public land. The storms that we are confronted with, the changing weather patterns and severity of those storms, are complicated often by burn scars, repeated wildfire events on public lands. The solution needs to be as far upstream to maximum benefit to help us best leverage the limited funding we have available as a community to install these drainage retention basins to retain as much of the water as possible. And for the county to take control to be able to do that, is that right?

Absolutely. Yeah. And be more flexible and expedient to the urgency of the weather problem, correct? Yes. Let me ask you this.

In Nevada, and particularly in Douglas County, and we've seen this throughout the lands bills in Nevada, quite often people don't realize— many stakeholders come out when we're talking about lands bills because everybody wants to be a part of the management of the land. And particularly as we were talking about Douglas County, there's 50,000 people that live there, but 60% of the land is managed by the federal government. It's been a challenge for many counties and many local governments to deal with. But can you talk about why bringing together— and you talked about this a little bit— the Washoe Tribe, the conservationists, the outdoor recreation enthusiasts, members of the community? Why is it important to bring them all together to get their support on this particular lands bill?

Thank you again for the question, Senator. Uh, I am very proud, uh, to be speaking on behalf of my community. Uh, we feel very strongly and passionately about where we live. Douglas County is absolutely a special place because of the stakeholder groups that you mentioned. It was really important.

We began this stakeholder process back in 2009. Before we even proposed this legislation, we worked for 3 years engaging with diverse stakeholder groups, individuals and groups, to make sure that this bill was, uh, enjoyed broad, robust support across all of our entities in Douglas County. It does that. It was important for it to do so because our residents feel passionately about public land. They would have been frankly offended if we proposed anything that was, um, not part of their vision, was not supportive of our community master planning process.

And we knew in order to get it right, we needed to engage with the stakeholders first, um, the Washoe Tribe especially, on their pieces, uh, the significance of those pieces. And we wanted to make sure that we were solving as many problems as we could with this legislation without creating more. And can I just say, I was— we were in our home states just a week ago, and I was in Douglas County. It's absolutely beautiful, and we were looking at some of the flood control issues and the management by the municipalities there, what is essential for the people that live there. It's beautiful country.

People don't realize it, but people— the quality of life is important for everyone who lives there, and that's what you're trying to manage as you bring the stakeholders together in these lands bills. And a key piece of that is the wilderness designation. I don't believe you would have put that in there but for the need and what you're hearing in the community about the wilderness designation and the need to preserve the prime habitat for the bi-state sage grouse populations. Ms. Baker, you talked a little bit about support for the land and trust conveyances, but no to the wilderness. Can you address why no to the wilderness.

Thank you, ma'am. As a matter of policy, the Department of the Interior and the Bureau of Land Management doesn't support broad wilderness designation because of the restrictive use that it places on the lands that we manage, preventing potential mineral development, preventing various means of public access, etc. And, and Miss Davidson, I don't want to pit you guys one against one another, but as somebody who actually is they are every day living in that county and working to manage the lands for everyone. Do you have a response to that, or how, how would you address that, that concern that is brought up by the BLM?

Thank you for the question. Uh, we do believe that this wilderness does protect public access, so the roads through the wilderness area have been cherry-stemmed out, and it was already a wilderness study area, we, we don't believe that it's going to have a significant impact. Otherwise, our residents would have very strongly opposed this. And I can affirm and attest to that. The residents would have come out in Douglas County.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Crockett, in, um, in your opposition to S4458, you cited timber production and mineral production in your opposition. Have you, have you personally been to the Caja del Río?

I have not personally been to the Caja del Río. Do you know how much mineral potential or development there currently is? I've not done the analysis on that. Actually, I think your staff have, because it's in your, your written testimony. It says mapping of the area does not show potential for mineral development and there are no current operations in the area.

In addition, it doesn't take more than a few minutes on the Cajado Rio to realize that the forest cover on the Forest Service lands is primarily one seed juniper, Juniperus monosperma, which gets to be about 9 feet tall and has no commercial production, and Pinus edulis, which is also a non-commercial species. I think probably the last time a ponderosa pine was actually harvested commercially on the plateau would have been before either of us were in our current position. So I just think it's important that the facts line up here, and what we've heard today is what is a continual opposition to any level of conservation, but support for all the development pieces. And we don't have timber to develop here. We do have these other species, and they're important for firewood, and we've protected that in this legislation.

It's also important to be able to do fire treatments in— on this plateau, and we have preserved the ability of the Forest Service to do that. I think it's important to recognize kind of what Senator Cortez Masto said, which is this is a balance. And if you look at the interests that came out to speak about these things at the local level, if you look at what the county said, if you consulted with the tribes, if you engage the agricultural interests, I think you would come to a very different conclusion about these pieces of legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand Senator Murkowski is on her way back and has a number of— a couple of questions.

Anything else that either of you have in terms of questions for the panel? I know, but I will add, um, I appreciate the NMA being here, um, and the shout out for the Mining Clarity Act. I would hope that, um, my colleagues will be open to helping us address this issue, which is important as we are looking to our needs for minerals in the future, um, whether they are hydraulic mining minerals, critical minerals, rare earth minerals. The key here is to make sure we still have the ability to extract those minerals. And the Mining Clarity Act, which is a piece of legislation that both Senator Risch and I feel very strongly about, and it's a priority for us— we're willing to work, I know, with our ranking member and anybody else who has issues with it, that so that we can put it into a kind of a final, final work product and move it as quickly as possible.

So I thank you for bringing it up, and we appreciate your leadership on it. Thank you. Awaiting Senator Murkowski, is there anything any— you would like to add to anything you previously said during the hearing?

Yeah, I'll weigh in on the perspective that you shared, Senator Heinrich. So I appreciate the feedback around what the local needs are there. What I will add to your comments is we do appreciate the values that are identified at the local level. And I do know that through the Forest Service and through the BLM and through the Pueblo of Tuskegee, they have signed a co-stewardship agreement in 2024 for the management of the Caja. And those activities for managing the, the illegal dumping and the restrictions that we've put in place for overnight camping to minimize use there and the increased law enforcement presence that's there, those are the things that we are actually emphasizing.

I know I'm representing the perspectives of this administration on not taking land and putting it under special designation. But I will reemphasize the importance of those decisions that are being made at the local level.

And thank you for that, Mr. Crockett. I welcome those kinds of stewardship agreements. I would also point out that the Pueblo of Tesuque very much supports this legislation, as does the Pueblo of Cochiti. And the pueblo of San Ildefonso.

In fact, the All Pueblo Council of Governors, which represents all 19 of the pueblos, supports this legislation.

Senator Murkowski has been unavoidably detained for an extended period of time due to crushing Senate business. So as a result, she will be able to submit her questions for the record, as will other members. They will do that by tomorrow, and we would ask that you respond to those quickly, and we'll close that out within a week. We expect to have your answers within a week. So thanks so much for being with you.

If there's no further question or discussion, this hearing is adjourned.