Assembly Special - July 11, 2025 - 2025-07-11 13:00:00

Grilled peaches with a little bit of char. Scoop of vanilla didn't make it quite far before the juice starts dripping on down.

Reaches my elbow and kisses the ground.

See you later, guys.

So it will depend on which—. Assuming we even get there.

Sorry. Different amendments go with different versions. So depending on which one they actually move, if we get to debate, it will be which one are they talking about, because some of them might be duplicated. I like— I think Chris's, even though it's written to the S2. He's like, if the S1 gets passed, I'll put it to that, or vice versa, or whatever.

Anyway, just keep that in mind. And as new ones come out, so that'll be for later. No, I just need to know if you're If you're going to work on George's floor amendment. Yeah, we've just finished it. Okay, great, because Joe had asked me to do it, but he was like, check with them because I think George might have run it through them, and I don't want to do work if you've already done it.

Yeah, George sent it to us. Awesome. Perfect. Awesome.

We have that one and a couple others. I saw that. Okay. Yeah, and I don't have anywhere to sit, so I'm gonna be either out there or upstairs. Oh, I can text you.

I can text you. Yeah, when Joe— Joe's on his way, and when he gets here, I'll ask him whether he wants me to sit down here or if he's okay with me being upstairs where I can use my mouse. Who's the drug teacher? I'm so much faster with the mouse. Struggling for L. Wayne's in the yellow part though.

What were you going to say, Dean? You can continue. Yeah, I'm Rashid Amal. Who's the drug teacher? So I'm here for floor amendment support.

Oh, I'm In the drafting, I was too busy. I provided background information about everything that happened in 23-24 to Joe. Yeah, I think Joe did most of it.

Yeah. Other than that, I don't know. I just— this has been an ongoing— who has 25 free minutes right now? Yeah, not, not very often. Rarely me.

Is Chris here yet? Yeah, he's somewhere. Okay. Joe just asked me to pass on a message. Oh, Chris, um, Joe says don't get worried, he's on his way.

Okay.

And he fixed it, and he All right, I think we're about ready to get started.

Hello, everybody. Welcome. I'd like to call this meeting of the Anchorage— I'd like to call this meeting of the Anchorage Assembly to order. Today is July 11, 2025. This is a special meeting on the calendar from 1:00.

—To 4 o'clock PM. It's 1:02 right now. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

Member Myers. Here. Member McCormick. Here. Member Martinez.

Present. Member Baldwin-Day. Present. Member Johnson. Here.

Chair Constant. Here. Vice Chair Brawley. Here. Member Voland.

Happy to be here. Member Silvers.

Is running in. Member Rivera? Present. Member Gerker? Present.

Member Perez Verdia? Here, walking in now. Mr. Chair, you have a quorum. Thank you.

Next, we have the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Myers, would you please lead us in the pledge? Yes, Chair.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United to the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Ms. Baldwin-Day, would you please read the land acknowledgment? Yes.

A land acknowledgment is a formal statement recognizing the indigenous people of a place. It is a public gesture of appreciation for the past and present indigenous stewardship of the lands that we now occupy. It is an actionable statement that marks our collective movement towards decolonization and equity. The Anchorage Assembly would like to acknowledge that we gather today on the traditional lands of the Dena'ina Athabascans. For thousands of years, the Dena'ina have been and continue to be the stewards of this land.

It is with gratefulness and respect that we recognize the contributions, innovations, and contemporary perspectives of the Upper Cook Inlet Dena'ina. All right, thank you. Before we move into the public hearing, I'm going to go ahead and read a supplemental AM into the record from the mayor. An ordinance of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 8.45 to prohibit camping on protected premises and prohibit construction on public land by providing criminal penalties. Uh, this is a memorandum associated with the S2 So it describes the changes between the two documents.

I would also note that we have an intern who is participating with us at this and the next meeting up on the dais. He's been participating in a number of our activities, and so he'll be shadowing the vice chair today. Next, I'll go ahead and set just a few of the ground rules up for the conversation that we're about to have. First, if you have already testified Um, you have a narrow aperture to provide testimony today only on the changes to the S-2 because the original version and the S version were introduced and put onto the agenda at the beginning of the previous meeting, and all of the titles were read into the record prior to the public hearing that we held at our last regular meeting. It is deemed that anyone who has already testified has testified to those, and the code provides that A member of the public may speak, but only to the changes of the S2 version.

So I don't know if we have copies of this memo yet put forward, but if we don't, we should. If we do, they're up on the dais and it details in a table the changes that have been made from the S1 to the S2. So that's the kind of narrow pathway for members of the public who've already testified to testify, is to speak only to the matters that are on this. We intend to take testimony until testimony is done. And then we anticipate an executive session that will occur before we enter into deliberations.

As I said, we are scheduled to 4:00 PM, but depending on how many people testify and the length of the debate that we have will determine when we are finished with this item today or if it continues to another day. With that, then I'm going to go ahead and read the public hearing items into the record and we will immediately proceed into the public hearing. So item 4A is Ordinance AO-2025-74, an ordinance of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 8.05 and Sections 8.45.015 and 15.20.020 to prohibit camping on public premises by providing criminal penalties and enforcement protocols consistent with City of Grants Pass v. Johnson and other law. There is also the S1 version, which generally follows with the same title. It reads An ordinance of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 8.45 to prohibit camping on protected premises and prohibiting construction on public land by providing criminal penalties.

And then there is also the S2 version, which is an ordinance, the Anchorage Municipal Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 8.45 to prohibit camping on protected premises and prohibit construction on public land by providing criminal penalties. With that said, then, um, without further ado, the public hearing is now reopened and we will take testimony. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

The microphone is off. There you go. One second.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Now go ahead. The mic is off now. You're good. Thank you.

Now there we go. Thank you. My name is Leilani Inman. I'm an Anchorage resident since 2010 and reside off Diamond. I'm here to talk about the homeless and public encamping issue.

Obviously, I witness this crisis every single day on my commute. Tents appear, vanish, and reappear like clockwork. I see the RVs that look like they've rolled out of a set of Breaking Bad and unmoved apocalyptic vehicles so run down they're clearly being lived in. I'm now seeing more of these encampments and their dwellers popping up closer to my home. Where I've resided since 2015, and in areas that I've never seen before having this issue.

It's basically a game of Catan. They're building settlements and trading resources while we keep rolling the dice to solve this complex crisis. But the board keeps shifting, the stakes keep rising, and new challenges keep popping up.

So I can search for Ryobi or Dyson hair dryer on Facebook Marketplace right now and find it proudly listed with someone with a 5-page rap sheet. Often the same person featured in our Facebook community post witnessed for stealing from Home Depot hours or days prior. It's a digital trail, and these public camping encampments are magnets for crime and lawlessness. Crime follows these camps. They turn parks, sidewalks, and business corridors into breeding grounds for theft, drug activity, and violence.

Remember those photos of the bike frame barrier fences during the Mountain View abatement camp— uh, abatement at Davis Park? Pretty safe to say that none of those bikes were picked up at REI. After a responsible shopping trip. In fact, many of these camps have better camping gear than people who actually have receipts for them. Many of these stolen items resurface in camps and troubled spots.

It's like a twisted yard sale nobody asked for. So I have to ask, if this level of— if I can see this level of chaos and anyone with even an ounce of situational awareness can tie it to tolerated or normalized public camping, are our decision makers truly in touch with reality on the ground? When or if any of you scroll through your Nextdoor posts after about package thefts stolen U-Hauls, vehicles, and car break-ins, what actually goes through your minds? When you watch homeless individuals pushing carts overflowing stolen goods into the trees or nearby camps, do you stop and take a deep hard look about your stance on this issue? Do you see the Facebook groups where desperate neighbors turn detectives sharing photos and to track stolen items, or you just scroll on?

Or are you so paralyzed for the fear of being politically incorrect on the political stage that you refuse to make real decisions? Decisions that protect the people you claim to represent. I could say a lot more on this issue, but for the sake of time, I'll cut to the chase. Legally, we are on firm ground. Opposing public camping is not about criminalizing poverty.

The recent Grant-Pass versus Johnson 2024 Supreme Court ruling affirms that municipalities have the authority to regulate public camping. Local governments have a legal and moral obligation to keep these public spaces accessible There's no one-size-fits-all to this crisis, but reclaiming our streets, if it means strengthening ordinances, using law enforcement to round up individuals and sorting out who needs treatment, who needs shelter, and who needs accountability behind bars, then so be it. That's the hard reality of restoring order and public safety. If we want real change, we need to stop confusing enabling with compassion. We need to restore accountability.

Madam, your time has expired. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Good afternoon. My name is Shelby Emmert. I've been a resident for 11 years, and I'm here today as a concerned and frustrating citizen. I love Anchorage. I live here, I work here, and I pay taxes here.

And what's happening in our city, especially regarding our homelessness, is no longer just a crisis. It's a failure. A failure of leadership, a failure of planning, and most of all, a failure of accountability. I'm a local realtor here in town. I closed on a property off of D Street about a month ago.

She's a fellow client and a fellow friend. Within the last month of owning her home, she has had to call the fire department twice to put out wildland fires within close proximity to her home, as well as APD to chase away drug users right next to her property and on her property. She pays property taxes to our assembly, and she doesn't have free use of her own land because of fear of her dogs picking up needles or ingesting substances that might be harmful. I've also shown properties with copper stripped from heating systems to fund prostitution and drug habits right in front of our citizens. For years now, we've watched as this assembly continued to delay, debate, and deflect when it comes to real long-term solutions for our unhoused population.

And in the meantime, the problem hasn't just persisted, it's escalated. Camps are growing, tents are popping up in parks, on sidewalks, and next to schools. Fires are being started in wooded areas and public spaces. Drug use is rampant, prostitution is openly occurring in broad daylight, and crimes connected to these encampments are rising. Break-ins, assaults, and thefts that directly impact our taxpaying residents who just want to feel safe in our own neighborhoods.

Let's be clear, this is no longer about compassion. This is about public safety. This is about protecting the community, and families are afraid to take their kids to our public parks. People no longer feel safe walking to work. Our tax dollars are being used to respond to emergencies that are entirely preventable.

If only someone in this room had the balls to act instead of just talk. And while we're here speaking, pleading for action, We also see something else. I witnessed Assemblymember Christopher Constant openly disengaged during public comment, looking at his phone, whispering to colleagues, and checking out. Mr. Constant, we see you, and we expect better.

When citizens show up to participate in this process, especially about something as serious as the safety of the future of this city, we deserve your full attention. You were elected to serve this community, not just sit in a chair, and if you can't listen to us when we're speaking, how can we trust you to represent when we're not in the room? I'm not here to score political points, but I'm here to say enough is enough. Stop ignoring the problem. Stop playing politics with people's lives and start treating this issue with the urgency and seriousness it demands.

And start showing the people of Anchorage that our voices matter. Because we're watching. And if this assembly won't step up, the community will remember who let them down when it mattered the most. All in all, I do not support the tent camping in our city. Anchorage homelessness needs to be put on— stop being an income source for our assembly members and their groupies.

Thank you. Please keep your clapping down. We have a lot of people to get through, and any disruptions will result in us taking a break and more time being spent getting this work done. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Meg Zalatel. I reside in Midtown. I'm an Anchorage resident for 20 years, and I live less than a block from recurring encampments. I know how hard decisions from your seats can be.

But you always have the option on that dais to do what is right, what is moral, what will put you on the right side of history regardless of the pressures you might be feeling. You do not have to approach hard issues from a punitive perspective or in a way that dehumanizes. You can always consider the humanity of each decision you weigh as you weigh the competing interests in the vote that lay ahead. To those of you who served on this body in the last administration, Criminalization just like this was resoundly rejected. What's changed?

If you are inclined to vote for this now, why are you now willing to punish people for being unsheltered and not before? With that said, let's begin with reality. Today, shelters are full. There are no mats. There are no beds.

There's still more than 550 people who live outside. Now layer this ordinance on top. So what happens to those 550 people? They include a man who lives in Midtown who works minimum wage washing dishes. He shows up to work but can't afford $1,500 in rent.

With shelters full, he sleeps outside. Under this ordinance, he is a public safety threat and a potential criminal. They include a mother and her daughter fleeing domestic violence. If they're lucky, they live in a car. Under this ordinance, they are a public safety threat and a potential criminal.

They include a man with brain cancer. He was discharged from an out-of-state hospital that Alaska sent him to, to nowhere to go. When he landed back in Anchorage, he was outside. Now he is a potential public safety threat and a potential criminal. What you are doing is taking someone— their status is whether or not they are sheltered or not.

And making them a potential public safety threat and a potential criminal. This is like redlining. This is redlining. Are you going to paint the sidewalks red and green? Are you gonna paint the curbs?

Will you put up signs saying, you can exist here, you can't exist here? You are placing the onus on the people who are least in the position to know where they can go. They are people who do not have ready access to internet or to read sophisticated maps. So the people I told you about, and I emailed you many more examples, are not exceptional. They are— many of them are doing the right things.

Some even are waiting for ERA but can't find units, right? That was supposed to be part of the solution. This policy doesn't create safety, it creates harm. Shelters are full. Housing is scarce.

It's expensive to live here. Don't punish people for being homeless. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

Please, no clapping. I really need you to not do the public celebrations. It's a disruption, and it also creates an environment in which there's us versus them, and it threatens the ability for people to feel comfortable to come up here and testify. So it is outside of the rules to be clapping and celebrating when people are testifying. Identifying.

Please welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Beverly Courtney. I'm from Midtown.

I have lived and worked in Anchorage since 1978, and my 8-year-old granddaughter and I cannot go to the local park. We no longer go to Westchester Lagoon to enjoy the park and walk on the trails because of our homeless situation. I have emailed many assembly members over the years about the homeless issue. Many of you currently on the board have received emails from me. A few of you have even responded, and I want to thank you for that.

But today I'm here to advocate for rehabilitation, not criminalization. What we need is one facility where the homeless people can be brought to. There are many repurposed public buildings that are vacant, and we could use those for this purpose. A public— in Boston, they're using a fire station. In Oregon, they have a program called Turnkey.

In Worcester, Mass., they have the Central Building. We could have a building of this nature that would pick up our homeless population, bring them where they could be classified as what their need is. The school has plenty of classrooms to house people. By whatever their need might be, whether they are alcoholic or drug or medically fragile or domestic violence or post-traumatic stress disorder or mental illness. And we could have counselors there who could take care of these people.

There could be daily AA meetings and NA meetings so that homeless people are not trying to figure out how to ride a bus to get to a meeting or a medical appointment. Also, there are on-the-job training opportunities. They could work in the cafeteria. Let's say people have to work 4 hours a day to stay in the center. They could do the cafeteria.

They could work the front office for like potential hotel jobs. They could do laundry for like housekeeping for hotels. They could do inside maintenance. They could do maintenance on the exterior of the building. And yes, this kind of situation costs money.

So with the idea for a 3% sales tax. The citizens of Anchorage want this problem solved in a healthy, productive way. This money from the sales tax, instead of beautifying the parks, could go for the startup cost of a facility of this nature, and then you could reduce the amount and run the facility with security counselors and staff to train people. But there has to be a change in the attitude towards how the treatment of homeless people is in Anchorage. They're not criminals.

No one plans on being homeless. No one. All of us in this room are one medical emergency away from becoming homeless. The potential is there for everybody. So please rethink what you're doing with this population.

They need support to become functional, responsible citizens once again. No one wakes up in the morning and says, I want to be homeless today. And that's what you need to understand. Thank you. Oh, okay.

Thank you. I appreciate you having this opportunity. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Dean Butch. I live in Midtown. I've lived here, born and raised in Anchorage. And I can just say I have nothing prepared. I'm kind of going with just what I witnessed out my back door this morning and for the past several weeks.

There's just growing Midtown. There's growing homeless camps there. They're getting bigger all the time. Hey, congratulations on emptying Davis Park, but where did all those people go? They just pretty much went to Midtown and dispersed to other parts of town.

So there was nothing solved there. How many hundreds of people were abated there? But what, 10 took housing, 2 took rehab? What about the other 100 and something? They just, you know, disperse around town.

I look out every morning out my kitchen window and I look at a pallet and tarp structure that's just growing every day, growing every day. Piles of garbage. I was— I check the— I report to them. I check the mini website. Oh, it's been dealt with.

We're looking for resources, da da da. Nothing ever gets done. Nothing has gotten done in the past month. And you're just kind of tired of waiting. It's, you know, why is Midtown taking the brunt of all this?

You know, I've got parks I can't enjoy. I've got bike trails I can't enjoy. I've got things like, I got a backyard I really can't enjoy. I pay taxes on all that. And every time I turn around, you tell me my house is worth more.

But no way I could sell it with what's going on out in the alley behind it.

You know, like I said, it's— what's the answer? Everything is based looking at housing and, you know, throwing money at housing. And what— well, let's talk about the real problem. The real problem is vagrants that they don't want housing. They don't want help.

They want to live where— they want to live in these tents or structures where they don't have any rules to live by. Well, what about them? There's no enforcement on any of it.

You know, I— it's— the alley behind my house is all day long, it's just a constant flow of vagrants. And, you know, the claim is on the website that they've been offered resources and whatnot. Well, none of them obviously took them. I was excited to see Amuni Vehicles back there the other day, last week, but all they did was come back and clean up their mess for them. And that's not right.

You can throw all the money you want at this, you know, by providing housing and these ideas for housing, but, you know, and these resources, they're free housing, give them free— hey, nothing's free in this world. You know, I'm at the end of my rope. It's just what I witness every morning out my back door. All these things my tax dollars pay for, I can't enjoy. Where's my rights?

Thank you. Make Anchorage great again. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Good afternoon, Assemblymembers. My name is Elizabeth Matthews. I am a West Anchorage resident, and I'm also the senior director of housing with Covenant House Alaska. We serve transitional-aged youth in our community. I'm here today to urge you to reconsider the proposed ordinance.

Ordinance that would criminalize camping and basic survival in certain public areas. If passed, this ordinance would not only punish people for being unhoused, it would actively make it harder for them to ever exit homelessness. Getting into housing is a steep uphill climb for people living outside. They face long wait lists, high rental costs, and very few low-barrier options. What they need is stability, a chance to engage with outreach teams access services and work toward housing goals.

The ordinance does the opposite. By adding criminal penalties, even misdemeanors, we're adding legal records, court fines, and even jail time for some people who are struggling with poverty and trauma. Once someone has a criminal record, it becomes significantly harder to qualify for permanent supportive housing, public housing, or even basic lease on the public market. The housing team at Covenant House Alaska has firsthand experience watching the AI technology that landlords are using to deny individuals with criminal records for housing. Before the landlord ever sees an application, this technology has screened out the applicant.

Many landlords simply deny whether they have a criminal conviction of a violent crime or otherwise. We are also making it harder for service providers to do their jobs. Outreach teams rely on building trust and consistent contact. That becomes nearly impossible when people are being pushed out of sight or disappear into the legal system. And for people with mental health issues, addiction, and medical needs, this constant disruption can derail recovery entirely.

Pushing the unhoused population out of sight is not solving the problem. We talk openly and often about accountability. And that matters. But we cannot hold people accountable to a system that they don't have access to. This ordinance doesn't just fail to create a pathway into housing, it will close the door for some of the very limited pathways that do exist.

I ask you to think about long term. How do we expect someone to stabilize when we keep uprooting them? How does somebody get into housing if we've made them legally ineligible for it? The answer is the same. They don't get their needs met and they don't get stable housing.

If we truly want fewer tents in our parks and fewer people sleeping on the sidewalk, we need to stop passing laws that trap them there. We need housing. We need outreach and we need shelter. We need to keep adding solutions, not citations. I urge you to vote no.

Thank you for your time. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Betty Hertz. I've lived in Anchorage since 1967, and I live in South Anchorage. I'm speaking in opposition to this ordinance.

As I read it, something that came to my mind was, if this ordinance passes, will there be a follow-up ordinance for those who aid and abet those who are camping illegally. I have been involved in outreach at the horrible situation at Centennial Park, at Cuddy Park when that was abated. Oh, excuse me, I missed Inga Gamble and Ingra, Third Ingra. I was there. Then to, then to Cuddy, and then to Davis.

These are people who have special needs. They don't need to have criminal records. Um, so I'm wondering, you know, are you going to follow up with an ordinance that says I'm not allowed to reach out and serve my sisters and brothers who are unhoused? You might recall, some of you, in 2023 Assembly ask the community to come forward and develop a pilot project related to allowed housing or allowed camping. If you haven't read that, I'm sure the task force notes are in this body somewhere.

I served on that committee. 40 Of us spent 6 weeks developing a plan of how to have allowed camping. We talked about what the basic needs were. The work's been done. Now you have an opportunity to dig out that paperwork and look it over and see what we can't do and why we can't do it in a short amount of time.

I want to share something that I wrote. Some of you may have heard it when I testified. I also am on the board of In Our Backyard. Which is a great model, and we are proud that you are moving forward to emulate that model. When I was working out at, um, Centennial Park and the people were bussed back to Sullivan Arena, as I watched that event, my heart was heavy.

Through my tears, I wrote this poem. Do you see them? Them on the street corners, them begging, or humans in need of shelter and food? Them drinking, them trashing surroundings, or humans in need of mental health? Them dirty or not working, or humans in need of showers and address so they can apply for work?

I'm going to speed up. Them living in tents or lining up for free clothes, or humans who had to leave unsafe homes? Do you see them or do you see humans? Your time has expired. Thank you.

Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, our names are Charlotte and Ellie Reese. We are 9 and 12 years old. We live in the Jewel Lake I'm part of Anchorage. We don't think people should be criminals for trying to survive. We should try to help them by giving them shelter and food.

One thing we like about our church is that we help others however we can, and we think you should do the same thing. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

Thank you, Chair Constant. Good afternoon. My name is Adam. I go by they/them. I live at 1701 Elkhador.

I'm one of the pastors at St. John United Methodist Church off O'Malley. I spoke out against the previous proposed ordinance in specific last session. I'd like to add my opposition on the record to the proposed substitution as well. I'm particularly frustrated by this proposal because I genuinely believe this city is serious about housing. I know multiple congregants from the church I pastor at that have been having extremely productive conversations about just how to fill the housing gap this city has.

But all of these ordinances and sub— their substitutions they fly in the face of that good sense. They take money that could be used to help people and instead send them further into poverty and desperation. None of these sorts of ordinances here in Anchorage and elsewhere ever address the basic problem. Unhoused people don't have housing. You can fine people to kingdom come, you can arrest them as much as you want, but until, until they have a safe place to stay, they're gonna be on the streets and they're gonna be sleeping wherever they can sleep.

And this is supposed to be another tool in the toolbox, as apparently said during the work session. It's like trying to solve a math problem with a hammer. There's going to be lots of sound, lots of fury. Point of order. Activity.

Hold on just a minute, sir. Um, Mr. Mullin, what's your point? Thank you. I appreciate you being here, Pastor, but did you say that you had already testified to a prior version? I testified to the prior version.

I wanted to put on the record my opposition to to the substitution as well. Okay. In the instant— in the— Mr. Chair, in the interest of fairness, I just want to make sure that folks who have already testified, whatever the perspective might be, know that they have to constrain their comments to the changes in the S version. So I'm going to uphold the point of order and just admonish that we have a table of changes that have been proposed between the S1 and the S2, and you're the first one to come forward and testify for a second time, so you get to be the learning moment.

Oh boy. And the reality is the code provides that your testimony should be narrowly constructed to the changes. I think that the point made that you are opposed to the S2 is clearly that, but a lot of the rest of it you already testified to, I think would be the answer. That is, he's saying, so the idea for others that are listening now on either side of this question is there is a table of changes. If you have testified, we're asking you to speak only to the changes.

So there's a memorandum up on the table up here. Yeah. All right. So we'll go ahead and let your time proceed. I mean, I have 4 lines left.

But all you're left with is a crumpled piece of paper and homework that was due 5 days ago. So please, Assemblymembers, oppose these ordinances and put all that effort and time that we're all using that would go into forcing them into housing instead. Thanks. Next, please come forward. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Okay. And this is the first time that I come here. I've been living in Anchorage for the last 32 years.

I am not homeless. I come from a family that we trying to live the— I mean, trying to feel how is be in the situation. Well, I gonna put in this city we have 3 problems.

And I learned that from Bob Eaton, who knows who was Bob Eaton, was who created the Franciscan Shelter. And he said, the problem of the homeless is when you say homeless, As long as you don't look the homeless and the causes what homeless cause, you can't resolve problem.

We have police department. The police department, in my point of view, I am not criticizing no one, is the most corrupt police department that I never seen. And I coming from a country that the police was corrupt. And the third is no question of money. In the last 15 years, we've been putting in the state people from outside.

Then how we gonna resolve a problem that is in the city when we are bringing people from outside? Then we are increasing the problem.

Long as you manage that with money and not with voluntarily, everything gonna be a problem.

It's no question of put it in jail because the only thing you're gonna cause is resentment in the people. And as human beings, when we feel resentment, automatically we push it back. In my point of view, I think it's wrong decision trying to criminalize. We need to start reducing the cost of the people that manage the programs. Reduce the salaries of the police and make public service, because this is what the government was created, public service, because it's not a business.

You know what I mean? Once you put it that— Canada did it and he left the crisis. Mexico did it. And went out of crisis. Then, long as we resolve one of the big three big problems, we have a winning source.

But we can't criminalize someone that is in a problem, otherwise we create bigger. Thank you. Sir, we did not get your name for the record. What is your name? Pablo Samaniego.

Okay, thank you, sir. Thank you. Welcome, sir. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Dave Morgan. I live at Midtown, basically on Rogers Park Community Council. I am the chairman of the Public Safety and Crime Committee of Rogers Park Community Council, but I'm not speaking for the council, I'm speaking for myself. I've been engaged over the last couple of years primarily on Jacobson Park. I've seen it related, uh, twice.

The first time took almost a year. The second time it took 10 days. And over the Fourth of July, with the professional help of the APD and others like the Lutheran Church and the Committee for Homelessness, it took 3, though it was only down to 4 or 5 new people. All I can say is, from my experience watching this process, especially living here for almost 40 years in healthcare, working in healthcare, that you almost have to have these types of ordinances in order to get order established. I have— when I watched the APD go into the camp over the weekend, I didn't see handcuffs.

I didn't see them threatening people. It was businesslike, orderly, and they actually, to me, trying to help. Hooking them up to other services, but they never threatened to arrest anybody, and I don't think they will. Where this type of ordinance goes into effect is for that 3 or 5% of homeless that are actually our criminals. The last time we had it rebated last month, I watched U-Hauls bringing gear in.

I watched Dozens of propane tanks and cookers go into where that camp was. And just like, uh, in Gaza, Hamas uses the Palestinians as shields. We have a small population, very small, of criminals who are using the homeless like a shield. So I don't see the police going in and putting people in handcuffs. I see 'em mostly of saving those places and making them crime-free.

So I think you do need as a backup, but that gives authority to straighten the situation out and to get them to the services they need. If they don't want them, you can't— this isn't Russia, you can't make them do it. But that's it. And I want it on the record, I finished in 27 seconds. Before that, sir, could you once tell us your name again?

Oh, I am the David Morgan. Thank you, sir. You're welcome. All right, welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, uh, Stuart Grenier, G-R-E-N-I-E-R. Um, I'm on the Northeast Community Council Parks and Trails Committee, but I'll try to do this in 3 minutes. First of all, I want to thank the mayor and Parks and Rec and APD. There's been a lot of cleaning in Muldoon of the parks and wooded areas around the Native Heritage Center, and it was a lot of man-hours, and I want to thank the people who cleaned it. There are health risks involved.

I've been a maid for the homeless volunteer for two decades now, trying to keep the park that I was born next to and raised to Raisin Air Inn, actually, at times clean. And I just want to relay that this is the first step, this resolution you guys have. Even if only one person is cited, it's just a first step. We have people who think they have the right to take our parks. We have people unloading pallets and pallets off of U-Hauls into parks, and we looked them up and They're from the valley.

So people are sending their homeless to Anchorage. There's no question about it. And I'm afraid all the talk about housing, of course we need housing. But guys, the more we facilitate the people, the more we're going to get. Things are only getting worse in the lower 48 and the bush.

I had big arguments with a lady right off the plane from Colorado. She dug into the side of the hill right outside in a park near my condo. They were just screaming, why are you doing this to me? Dude, why are you in the park? You come up from Lower 48. Dividend checks, marijuana, all kinds of reasons to get people to come up.

So anyhow, guys, what's happening to our community is having people assuming they can live in our parks is causing big problems in our neighborhoods. We have people who want to help them and people who are totally berserk because their property values are doing a nosedive, and people are getting guns aimed at them. People are being threatened. Houses are being shot. This— we need law enforcement.

Guys, even if nobody gets cited, this is a step in the right direction. Some of these people are just hell-bent on doing whatever they want, and we need to have a way to send a message to them. Eventually, my big fear is we're going to end up with somebody like Duterte in the Philippines. And if you haven't studied that situation, he's in prison now, but he was elected and reelected with big margins. And he handled the homeless situation in a terrible manner.

It's looking like a third-world country here, guys. I watch people eat out of the dumpsters. They don't even inspect the food. So we have to find a way. Please get the parks to be sacred and not places for homeless.

Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, sir. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Thank you, Chair. My name is Thomas Fairchild. I'm from 26th and Spinard. I can kind of reach out and touch the Coote's windmill from my balcony. Um, although I was initially against the amended ordinances, I now support them.

Even though I am against criminalizing homelessness, I also believe in the legal and constitutional obligations our state promises criminal offenders. Article 1, Section 12 of the Alaska Constitution affirms that criminal administration shall be based upon the principle of reformation. This is not an aspirational value, by the way. The Alaska Supreme Court has affirmed our Constitution creates an individual enforceable right to rehabilitation. By passing these ordinance— these ordinances and making public camping a crime, the assembly opens a new legal door, one that requires the municipality and state to provide meaningful access to rehabilitative services to those criminalized under this law.

To fulfill their obligations, legal obligations, prisons and jails must become a place where offenders can successfully escape the cycle of homelessness, a crime. This means shelter access and housing support, mental health and addiction treatment, job readiness and education and case management, release planning that breaks the cycle of homelessness, and of course, because it's a crime, legal representation and advice. Uh, if those services are not available or not provided in a timely or sufficient manner, the sentencing scheme may be unconstitutional. Let's be clear, the efficient compliance sought by ABD and the muni is not moral. They are sidestepping their responsibility for criminal administration.

Typical arrest and prosecution would trigger offenders' rights to rehabilitation and public legal representation, which would help solve root causes, but also cost the muni money in the short term. I support this ordinance as a legal threshold not to punish poverty, but to force the system to reckon with its responsibilities to all citizens. While this legislation is immoral on its face, it sets new standards and can open new legal pathways to reimagine success in criminal administration. Our Constitution is clear. If Anchorage criminalizes homelessness, It must also fund the path out.

And I guess I can just ad-lib at this point. While we're on the topic of funding, a lot of people are saying that this activity brings down their property values. So wouldn't the reverse be true? If we deal with this, property values go up. Maybe then people who would benefit from that should pay for those services.

I'm not an economist, but generally if someone's getting something from someone, they should pay for it. Okay, I cede the last 2 seconds of my time to them. All right, welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is LaHerbrecht. I'm a Westside resident. I'm also director of Youth Engagement Services at Covenant House Alaska. I come before you today deeply concerned about the impact this ordinance will have, not just on our unhoused neighbors, but on our shared hopes for a safer, healthier community. This ordinance may aim to protect public spaces, but even the amended version still does not so by criminalizing the very people who have nowhere else to go.

The intention may be compliance with movement requests, but the outcome can still be arrest. Additionally, subsequent administrations could use these laws to focus on arresting as many people as possible instead of focusing on compliance. We all want Anchorage to be clean, safe, and livable, but public safety doesn't mean removing people. It means investing in people. This ordinance doesn't invest, it penalizes.

It makes survival illegal in large swaths of our city while we still have insufficient alternatives. It communicates you don't belong. The idea of resolving citations through therapeutic courts or diversion programs have promise, but the reality is that many of the people experiencing homelessness are there because of the failures of our systems and our current lack of mental health and treatment services in our city and state. At Covenant House, we see young people every day who are promised options and opportunities that never materialize because of our lack of social safety nets. We need more than vague promises of potential ways to mitigate the harm of being criminalized.

We need detailed plans on how the services that a diversion program would refer will be funded. At Covenant House, we saw a 15% reduction in shelter funding from the muni this year, which significantly impacts our ability to provide essential services within our shelter, including cold weather. A young person can agree to treatment or shelter, but if we collectively don't have enough, diversion doesn't work. Young people just end up back on the street with a criminal record, creating more barriers to their stability. There is more work to be done before an option like this ordinance should be put on the table.

Please vote no. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Tiffany Dennis and I live in Lower Abbott. I've been a resident of Anchorage for more than 30 years. I support this proposal to prohibit camping on public premises because I believe it is a foundation for compassion and care. Our society, our society has a duty to protect all members.

Allowing people to live in squalor and unsafe and unsanitary conditions is inhumane. Illegal camping creates environments filled with violence, disease, and despair, and it puts our most vulnerable community at the highest risk, and the risk spills over to the broader Anchorage community. I'm so sorry, Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. Point of order has been raised.

Ms. Baldwin-Day. Yes, thank you. There is chatter happening out in the audience that is really distracting from the testimony. I just want to be sure that we have silence in the chamber so that everyone has an opportunity to be heard equally. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Baldwin-Day. I also uphold that point of order. There is just conversation happening in the back. We would ask if it needs to proceed, hopefully you can take it out or whisper so we don't hear you. The acoustics of this room bring your voices right to our ears.

All right, thank you. Please. Prohibiting camping on public land, I believe, is one of many necessary steps towards solving our current crisis. There are many pathways into homelessness— mental illness, addiction, family crises, and more. We have invested in mental health courts, shelters, and addiction treatment.

We certainly need more of these resources, but services alone are not enough. This proposed ordinance provides a legal tool and creates a framework where those unwilling or unable to seek help may be guided into treatment and services. Housing First is a well-documented and effective approach, especially for youth, families, and elderly. Studies show that offering permanent housing without prerequisites leads to long-term stability and well-being. For young adults, this model helps initiate trust and engagement.

However, it is not a universal solution. It works best when navigating services is the primary barrier. It is typically not effective for individuals with severe mental illness or active substance abuse disorders. They require a more structured environment. This is why this proposed ordinance is necessary.

It gives legal leverage to place people who need help in appropriate forms of care. Those ready to recover may enter treatment and to possibly transition to Housing First programs. Others can be guided into mental health and addiction treatment through legal pathways. This is a tiered strategy that matches individuals with the level of care they need. Parents avoid parks and playgrounds because of needles, trash, and violence.

Businesses suffer because tourists hear stories and see degradation around our city. Crime is rampant and is going unchecked despite significant investment over the years. Without legal authority to compel intervention, many individuals continue to suffer. In closing, we owe it to our Anchorage residents, all of them, to act with empathy and determination. This ordinance is not about punishment.

It's an essential first step towards ending harmful, inhumane conditions and connecting people with services. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Daniel Alvarez, and I've been a resident in Anchorage for the past 15 years. I have an apartment building at Fairbank Street. And have experienced a lot of problems from the homeless and the Chester Creek, uh, greenbelt behind the apartments.

Over the last several years, homeless people have tried to break into the apartments and have vandalized the property. They have broken into and camped in the laundry room and frequently have slept in our property, leaving trash, body waste behind. They frequently walk on the walkways in front of the apartments door, ignoring the no trespassing signs. Alta, the dumpsters are designed to resist. They fill it up pretty fast that the renters can't really put their trash in there.

There are frequently vehicles parked in the Fairbank Street blocking access for the apartments. This has been going on over, uh, for years, but has gotten worse recently, with this year shaping up the worst one yet. The Chester Creek Trail, which is frequented by men, women, children, and families walking, juggling, and riding, ran immediately edge to edge At night, the fires, they burn in the greenbelt. It's clearly post no burning signs has around the apartments, forcing residents to keep their windows closed. In the summer, there are frequently loud parties, arguments, and a lot going on at night less than 50 yards from the apartments.

I have had 10— one tenant moved out and two more give me the notice of leaving. Because of these events, I can't pay right now my mortgage, and if I can't pay my apartment's rent anymore, it will make it difficult for me. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Ben Virgin. I'm a teacher living in Midtown Anchorage, and I bike the Chester Creek Greenbelt Trail to work every day of the week, which, contrary to some of the pictures painted today, is completely safe for me to do and not akin to biking through a war zone. I'd like to comment specifically on Section 2, subsection B of the proposed S version of this ordinance.

It is abundantly clear to me that anyone who looks like me, walking the street with an armful of construction supplies will not be given a second glance by law enforcement, let alone asked if I have permission. I find it very alarming to hear that this assembly is considering an ordinance that it is aware will be unevenly enforced. I do not want to live in a community that applies the law differently to its people based on their property or their wealth. As a final note, the greatest threat to my safety as a cyclist is not the sight of homeless encampments on my commute, but the insufficient road infrastructure in our city. I would like— I would think an assembly concerned with public safety had more urgent matters when there is a hit-and-run in the paper every week.

Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is Vicki Drussel. I've lived in this community for over 60 years and worked with the homeless population the last 10 years. I'm shelter director down at the women's shelter. If you think that people want to be homeless, let me assure you they do not. There's a very small percentage that may want to live out there on the streets, but the majority of them would rather be housed.

They have, most of them, suffered a lifetime of trauma. They use drugs and alcohol to anesthetize their pain. They are in pain, people. They are in pain. Our city has failed our homeless community.

We failed. It's your responsibility as elected officials to pick up the torch and do something. The previous administration, I believe, had a plan, and for some reason it was voted down, a complex that was a way, a way to handle the majority of the homeless people in this community.

I'm trying to get my thoughts together because I have a lot to say, a lot. In the recent years, we have seen a number of women. Our shelter's been full for, for over the past year, and believe it or not, we have We have people in there who are in their 80s who are not drug addicts and not alcoholics. They are elderly people who have been evicted from their property because their taxes for the property owners, taxes have gone up and they've raised the rent. So we are talking about homeless elderly women who are on a fixed income with nowhere to go.

Nowhere to go. We have an 80-year-old that showed up at the door today who's been walking the streets. This ordinance has proposed a lot of what they cannot do. Don't go here, don't go there, this will happen. Where do you propose they go?

That's not in the ordinance. Where would you like them to go? Nothing has been proposed where they can go, where they can get help. We have women and men who would like immediate treatment but there are no facilities to get drug treatment or alcohol treatment. Everything is 6 months or a year out.

You were elected, and you're elected for a purpose and a plan. You can come up with something collectively that will be good for the entire community. I understand the frustration of the communities that— the neighborhoods that are having homeless people come in, but they have been scattered all throughout our city. Encampments have been broken up. You've not given them a place to go.

You've not redirected them. And until— and they're human beings. They are no— most of them are no different than you or I. They are people who are hurting and full of trauma. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Robert Erlacher.

I live in the McKinley Tower Apartments down on 4th and Denali, downtown Anchorage, which is about half a block from the Hope Center, the Brother Francis Shelter, the Henry House, services for people in poverty and that are unhoused. I walk my dog every day in that neighborhood. I pass people sleeping on the street, not in tents, not in things that are constructed, but under sheets and blankets on the sidewalk with nothing else.

I'm here speaking against this ordinance. I do believe that it's immoral. And beyond that, I believe that it's a bad solution, that grasping at a bad solution to a very complicated issue, which homelessness is, but grasping at a bad solution for it is a bad decision. I don't think that criminalizing folks that are homeless is in any way helpful. My wife currently works for an agency, and her primary job is to find housing for people that are unhoused.

And her primary frustration with her work is the fact that she gets assigned to help people find housing. She knows every single service in the city, every single shelter, and she comes home saying, "There's no place. There's no place." And I know all the places.

And so to criminalize and charge and incarcerate the folks that I walk past. I worked for 30 years as a mental health professional, and I know that it's wrong to diagnose without a full assessment, but I can tell you when I see severe schizophrenia from a distance. And these folks are not choosing to build a tent. They are simply out of any other resource. And I would ask you to do everything you can to find compassion with this frustrating situation.

Because I think compassion is the thing that we all want, that we voted for you to have, and that we hope that you can find. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you'll have 3 minutes. Good afternoon, members of the assembly.

My name is Adrienne Tuckek. I'm a second-year master of social work student at UAA, and I live— I've lived in East Anchorage since 2001, and I currently live where Boundary meets Centennial Park. I'm here to express my strong opposition to AO-2025-74 S1, S2, and 2 and amendments 1 through 4. As someone training in a field grounded in ethics, social justice, and systems thinking, I've learned to ask not what the problem is, but what created it. And the truth is, the crisis we're facing today— encampments, public frustration, visible suffering— isn't sudden.

It's the result of years of fragmented, reactive policy poverty and a failure to invest in housing and care. These ordinances and amendments don't solve that. They enforce restrictions, not solutions. They don't offer shelter. They just reduce where people are allowed to exist.

They don't build safety. They only shift visibility of poverty and trauma out of public view. The frame that these proposals— to frame that these proposals Um, are restoring order or protecting public interest is misleading. What's really being protected here is distance from responsibility, from discomfort, and from the assembly's own role in creating these conditions. People are not problems to be managed.

They are neighbors who have been failed by our systems. Mandatory rehab in this context only deepens that failure. Coerced treatment is not care. We cannot respond to trauma, addiction, or homelessness by threatening people with confinement in places they did not choose, especially when we have not provided safe, sufficient alternatives. These proposals reflect political fatigue, not political integrity.

And as someone who's lived in the city for more than two decades, I'm asking you not to legislate people out of sight, but to face the moment with accountability and compassion. Please vote no on AO 2025-74 in all its forms, reject the amendments, and begin the real work of building systems that recognize people not as visual burdens but as members of the community you were elected to serve. Thank you. Thank you. And before we proceed to the next, uh, several in the line, we're going to alternate.

We have about about 8 people to call or 7 on the phone. So we'll do 3 and 3 until we get through the call list. So the next person we'll do is the first person on the call list.

And if you're on the call list but you're in the room, we're going to ask you to queue up behind the folks in line. We're not going to allow you to jump forward. Hello, this is Ari. Hi there, Ms. Balizzi.

This is the Anchorage Assembly taking testimony on AO 2025-02. 74, 74-S1, and 74-S2. You signed up for telephonic participation. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Thank you. My name is Ariana Blizzy, and I live in Campbell Park. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, members. I am testifying on behalf of myself.

This is my first time testifying. I chose this ordinance because I find it important to speak for people that do not have the capacity and privilege to have the time to testify. Assembly members, I urge you to vote against AO 2025-74, 2025-74S, and 2024-75S2. I had a whole speech written, but I've listened to the testimony today and at the previous meeting and have been moved by everyone who spoke against this ordinance. Every reason to vote against this AO has been said by people in your chambers.

With more experience and more eloquence than I could. I believe it's my civic and moral duty to share my opinion through testimony, and I also do this so you do not think all of Anchorage wants to criminalize our unhoused neighbors. The work of this assembly and this mayor has been to carefully navigate a complicated issue, and it is now— it's not the time to stomp on that work. This AO will not help Anchorage please vote against AO 2025-4. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Belisi. Uh, we call the next person on the list, please.

Hello, Mr. McKinley. This is the Anchorage Assembly taking— Hi there, Mr. McKinley. Anchorage Assembly taking testimony on AO 2021-1. 2025-74, 2025-74 S1 and S2. You signed up for telephonic participation.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Okay, I wasn't really counting on talking again, but anyway, name's Gabriel McKinley. I'm in Baldew. I'm calling in support of AO 2025-74 as written.

And I also want to say that you guys should maybe look at just adding a mass shelter and places for people to camp in addition to what else you got going. So good luck. That's about all I got to say. Thank you, sir. Thanks.

All right, let me call the third person.

Telephone number 7. Why don't we call the next one on the list?

Hello, this is Terry. Hi there, Mr. Drake. This is Anchorage Assembly taking testimony on AO 2025-74. 74-S1, 74-S2. You signed up for telephonic participation.

Please state your name and what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Terry Drake. I am in District 2.

Okay, my testimony on this AO, this is complicated, and we cannot let Anchorage be destroyed by what's happening. You know, you guys keep talking, the assembly keeps talking about, you know, let's break all these people up into small groups. Okay, if, if this is the plan, why don't we do just that and build this navigation center for each one of these people? Because I mean, just putting them in housing doesn't seem to work very well. I've been studying some of the numbers and it seems like the outflow to inactivity is a great deal more than what we're housing.

Another fact which has been coming up: is there really a housing shortage in Anchorage with all these people leaving?

You know, that's a question I would ask any of you assembly members. But when it comes down to it, what we're doing— criminalizing, criminalizing this— is not going to help. If you don't have a place to put them Where are they going to go? And what are we going to do with the problem that creates? I'm— I haven't been out walking the camps lately due to an illness, but I have friends that are.

And right now, all the old haunts, they're all packing up. Several of them have their own little drug dealer located at the camp.

I mean, what are we going to do? Criminalization isn't going to work. I mean, if you guys really want to fix this issue, somebody's gonna have to bite the bullet. And I hate to say it's gonna have to be the taxpayers, but we need— when we do this, we need police enforcement on all this right now. We need police enforcement in the camps.

You know, I would like the police to be able to go up and issue not just tickets but arrest someone for selling drugs in these camps. I mean, I've sat and I've watched it myself. I've actually walked in on a drug deal and about got shot over in Willowa last year. This is total lawlessness in almost all of these camps.

Not all, but in a lot of them, it is literally lawlessness. So something's got to be done. Criminalizing it's not going to work. We need the housing. We need— well, you look at the 12, the 12 units we want to put in over off Tudor.

What are we going to do to mitigate those poor souls in the wintertime when the coalition hands out all their black gear for winter clothes without any reflectors? They're going to end up like my friend that I got into the Alex this last year and got hit on Tudor. I don't want to see any more of this. We've got to fix this. All right, thank you, Mr. Drake.

Your time has expired. Thank you for your testimony, sir. We'll come back to the room now. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from, and next couple folks did speak before, so just know we're trying to keep you on the changes.

Thank you. Hi, thank you. My name is Nithya Thiru. I am a resident of East Anchorage, and I am representing myself today. I did testify before, so I'm here today to testify on the changes in the S2 version of this ordinance.

Um, I am in strong opposition to this S version. The changes specifically that create the new crimes of prohibited construction and prohibited attempted construction and further prohibit camping in these structures are inhumane. People are not constructing and camping shelter on public land because there are not enough incentives to seek out services. They are constructing shelter because there is nowhere else to go and they must survive. I spoke with a healthcare worker yesterday who shared that unhoused people frequently face amputation year-round due to the cold.

Whether it is building a structure or building a fire, people do so out of a dire need to stay warm and safe. As this healthcare worker told me, if you have never had to wait until your flesh rots off your body to have a limb or sometimes multiple limbs amputated, you have no right to tell someone what they can and cannot do to stay warm. Criminalizing acts of survival, as this S version would do by prohibiting camping in structures constructed on public land, while also knowing full well that there is no guarantee of legal alternatives such as adequate shelter space or designated places to camp, You are essentially telling unhoused people that their very survival is illegal and they must choose death in order to comply with the law.

I have a master's in human rights and humanitarian policy from Columbia University. Human rights advocates have a word for a policy that is created with the intent to kill and disappear a certain portion of the population. It's called genocide. This S version sends a clear message. You want poor people to simply die.

I am deeply disturbed by the willingness of this body to entertain something so fundamentally harmful to our neighbors and community, and I stand in strong opposition to this version and all versions of the ordinance. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, Sam. Terry testified before, so we'll just ask you to be careful.

I wish to read this on behalf of another person. That's outside of the rules. What's that? That would be outside of the rules. So you can testify on your behalf on the changes to the—.

Okay, I'll speak for myself then. S2 version. Yes. The framework. Thank you.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You all got the letter from that person anyway. My name is Terry Light. I live in Fairview. I have lived experience being houseless, have lived experience with oppression by normal people.

People who are differently abled. I have experience with standing up, working for a PAMI council, have experience for the Alaska mental health community in helping to try and generate connection with people.

In many ways, this is not the place we're going to solve the problem.

I'm just asking people to sit in their bodies, Notice their breath.

Their breath connects all of us. It connects us to the people who've been alive before and the people who will be alive when I'm gone.

The pandemic taught we're all connected and that we have ancestors and histories, and our stories are different. And we also have contexts and experiences, and those are entirely different.

The place that that's going to make change is when we really sit down and listen to each other and not have a quick solution. There's no quick solution to this. There's a lot of need for healing for all the people and all the cities that are experiencing houselessness.

There's a lot of people performing being a citizen, but most of us are harmed and ill in a lot of ways, and that nobody decides they want to have a community to live in with houses, people, and nobody decides when they're born that they want to grow up and go crash into somebody else's house or disturb other people. Terry, I'm going to interrupt for just just a moment. So I want to say that I am—. I need to ask you to testify to the changes in the S2 version because you've already testified, and it's not fair to the public to have you testify the same testimony again. I am against the version and S2 version.

You added some nicer things by having it less money for fine. It is still a criminalization, and you also extended the area around it places that people want to keep pure and clean. The rivers, the public parks. And we forget that human beings are a part of the environment. Everybody has ecological responsibility.

I don't like the houses I'm living in. They cost too much on our environment. But I have no choice. If I want to stay away from the police, I have to be in a building. That's not my choice.

There are many, many different ways to build a home. And homes are built by neighborhoods in connection with people and communicating. Community creates community. And this is not the place where we're communicating. We're arguing, we're fighting.

That's not what we're meant to do together. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, sir. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

Self-organized here. Is this on? Yes. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hi, my name is David Wigglesworth, and my family lives in Northstar area of town around Valley of the Moon. We strongly support the mayor's proposed S2 ordinance to institute penalties for illegal camping and building structures on or near public lands as defined in the ordinance.

For sure, this ordinance is not going to solve the homeless problem in our community. It does not address the shelter part so clearly articulated be today, nor does it address behavioral issues. But addressing complex problems requires breaking down the issues into more manageable parts. And this ordinance addresses what I interpret as a land use ambiguity. It pieces the solution by articulating the expectation that if you live in this community, camps and shelters are not acceptable land uses in our green belts, along our trails, near our schools, adjacent to childcare centers, and that it's not okay to turn parks and recreational amenities into single-use areas for illegal camping at the expense of other members, many other members of the community wanting to enjoy these areas for their intended and legal purposes.

Anchorage's green belts and watersheds and natural areas, recreational amenities provide countless economic and other benefits to residents and businesses alike in our community. Past leaders in our community, such as Vic Fisher, Lainey Fleischer, Tony Knowles, Mark Bagich, Rick Meistrom, and many others, recognized the economic and community value of these amenities by working with previous assemblies to invest tens of millions of dollars into establishing green belts, improving recreational opportunities, securing parklands, building trails, and whatnot for the benefit of all residents. Unchecked and illegal camping in this area is having harmful negative impacts on these spaces and investments at considerable cost to the community, such as emergency response to illegal fires, public disturbances requiring, requiring police callouts, trash and litter cleanups, and costly diversion of departments and staff from the priority mission activities and responsibilities. Others include habitat degradation, illegal cutting of trees, poaching salmon, et cetera. These spaces, once highly touted as positive attributes of our community, are eroding bit by bit due to these camps, and large sections of public areas now becoming single-use areas at the expense of the other public uses.

My children don't want to bike along Chester Creek between C Street and the Seward Highway because they feel unsafe. I'm tired of seeing people pooping in the woods, concerned about getting stuck by sharps when I'm geocaching that area, other things like that. So I would just say that Anchorage is the top city by population in the United States. We are a big city, and it's time to acknowledge this and grow up. We are no longer a tent city.

Thank you. Thank you. We're going to go back to the phone for the next 3 people.

Hello. Good afternoon, Ms. Sharp. This is the Anchorage Assembly, and we're taking testimony on AO 2025-74, 74-S1, and 74-S2. You signed up for telephonic participation.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Right now? Right now. Go ahead.

Well, I'm out for a walk right now and I can't really hear very well, so I guess I have to pass. All right, thank you. There's a lot of traffic and I'll email you. Thank you. I think you already did.

Thank you very much. Yeah. All right, the next one please.

Hello. Good afternoon, Mr. Weber. This is the Anchorage Assembly calling. We're taking testimony on AO 2025-74, 74-S1, and 74-S2. You signed up for telephonic participation.

You will have 3 minutes. Please state your name, what part of town you're from, and maybe, maybe— Say that again. Can you say that again, sir?

Oh, I guess maybe hung up. We'll do the next one, please.

Hello. Good afternoon. Matt Thomas signed up to testify for the Anchorage Assembly. Is Matt there? Yes, this is Matt.

Matt, hi there. This is the Anchorage Assembly calling. We're taking testimony on AO-2025-74, 74-S1, and 74-S2. You signed up for for telephonic participation. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Matt Thomas and I'm a resident of East Anchorage. I'm a nurse and I'm testifying in total opposition to this ordinance, including the S1 and S2 versions, which would increase contact between the police and unhoused people, over 40% of whom are Alaska Native, and function to further colonize this stolen Dena'ina land. Some of you may argue that misdemeanors won't cause people to get locked up. However, some charges are upped to felonies for repeat defendants, and I'm concerned that the people who are targeted by this ordinance will end up with greater charges than are outlined here.

Prisons, as Angela Davis wrote, function ideologically to keep social issues and deviance— what is often racialized as crime— out of view of normative white wealthy society. This ordinance would function to hide the social issues that this assembly has refused to make progress on, like housing people, so that certain people— you all— don't have to think about it. This issue is personal for me. As a queer and trans kid growing up, I spent a brief time living on the streets. I was fortunate to not have contact with police during that time, but I imagine how criminal charges would have changed my life, my ability to become a nurse, and the almost 15 years I've worked in critical care and now hospice.

It would have impaired my ability to get off the streets to continue towards my career path. By criminalizing the means of survival, you are further ostracizing vulnerable people. By giving police discretion on how this is enforced, you're putting hands in the— you're putting power in the hands of those like Sergeant Jesse Frey, who recently said, about those locked up at the jail, I quote, "Those people are not like you and me. They're bad guys." This ordinance allows police who already see criminals, quote-unquote criminals, as bad people to weaponize stereotypes in enforcement. Finally, I am not so arrogant as to think that I, a queer and trans disabled person of color, will never be unhoused again.

People over the age of 50 are the fastest growing group of unhoused people because of the loss of benefits. Especially as government support systems are taken away. Any of us, or our children, parents, friends, and loved ones, could be criminalized by this. Most likely, we'll see predatory policing targeting Alaska Native people who are often on the streets due to the repercussions of colonization. I urge you to oppose this ordinance and listen to the dozens of people who have, since it was first proposed, come out against it in any form.

Thank you. Thank you. And that concludes our phone list. So we'll proceed with the rest of testimony in person. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Good afternoon. My name is Dr. Catherine Sinclair, and I'm a history professor at UAA, and I live in South Edition. I'm here today to testify against AO 2025-74 in all of its forms.

I understand that this ordinance has gone through multiple multiple revisions, and today we're discussing version S2. While the mayor's office proposes this ordinance as a more humane approach to managing encampments than previous versions, it is far from a real solution to homelessness. I only moved to Anchorage a year ago, but since then I have witnessed firsthand the extent of the housing crisis here, not only as I drive or walk around Anchorage, but also in my professional life. Both semesters I've had students disappear from my classes because they faced a sudden crisis like loss of parental support or loss of a job, and they were suddenly experiencing acute housing insecurity. The students who reached out to me were thankfully able to manage their housing situation and to catch up by the end of the semester, but I doubt they would have been able to do so in a city where this ordinance was passed.

And where they face contact with law enforcement, criminalization, and up to a $500 fine in addition to their pre-existing financial and housing difficulties. How does an ordinance that punishes people for sleeping in what seems like most areas in Anchorage actually address the underlying issues that are pushing people onto the streets in the first place? The ordinance begins by stating that resources are available for unhoused people, but we've heard from multiple people today who work providing those services that there is not enough, that the waiting lists are too long, and that people are left without resources even though they're desperately trying to access them. The insufficiency of these resources seems especially egregious because the municipality seems determined to fund more law enforcement efforts to punish unhoused people rather than to provide more resources to make a material difference in their circumstances. There is evidence from all over the country, most recently from Portland, Oregon, that criminalizing public camping— in other words, criminalizing homelessness— leads to worse public health outcomes, including higher rates of death.

On the other hand, actually providing resources like money, transitional housing, and supportive services not only reduces the population of unhoused people in an area but also leads to better long-term outcomes. When I think about the people that this ordinance will affect, I don't think about strangers. I think about my students struggling to keep up with their classwork when their lives are crashing down around them. I think about my friends, my neighbors, my community. I don't want them to be fined or criminalized because they just need to sleep.

I want them to have what they need, and what they need is real resources that and services that we should be discussing here today. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Chris Sturm. I'm from the scenic Park area, and I'm a clinical director and complex behavior specialist who specializes in complex interfering behaviors. So anything from aggression to property destruction to self-injury to schizophrenia. I've worked the last 16 years with some of the most difficult-to-serve children, youth, and adults throughout the state of Alaska with the goal of keeping them in their communities and living a quality life.

I'm speaking out against AO 202574 S2 because it actually distorts what the problem is. It isn't camping. It is not our unhoused population. It is really working with those people individually who have these complex needs. Who come from complex situations such as our own, and really helping them to have some kind of quality life.

It is not criminalization of their situation, which is what this ordinance would do, and it would create a game of cat and mouse where precious resources would be used to continually follow people from one campsite to another. If this happened to you, you would surely call it harassment. This is what will happen because it's happened before with prior administrations. My workplace is in Midtown Anchorage, and after one of the first abatements occurred in the early 2000s, we had two people move into our parking lot, one of whom moved into our outside foyer and actually blocked an entrance.

Was criminalization in order in that situation? No. We treated them like human beings because that's how we're trained. That's how I'm trained. That's how we work.

After the most recent abatement, where did they go, someone asked? I think some of them ended up all the way on the east side in our neighborhood. I ran into 3 the week after. They will find a way. Behavior always finds a way, and needs always find a way.

Behavior is always adaptive. One of the dangers that occurs when we manage problems like this without a multi-part solution and multiple components to serve the different needs that these people have, is that we cannot specifically predict what will happen next. We will continue to raise the stakes through the use of coercion to make our point known while disguising it as a safety issue for the individual and our community. This has been made abundantly clear in my work over the past 16 years and will surely occur here as well. We create more rules, more punishments, in the hope that this time it will be different.

But it usually never is.

And if it is different, even in the end, at that point we've compromised a small part of our humanity, our compassion to have towards our fellow people. Getting back to my initial point, this ordinance clearly indicates that Anchorage still doesn't have an appropriate solution to really serve the people that have those needs. Instead, we're just applying Band-Aids in the hope that this gushing wound will stop bleeding. Leading. The path forward has a lot to do with more of supports and incentives, and it just— not just adding another punitive message, punitive measure.

Thank you. Welcome. Uh, the next couple speakers have been here before, so again, admonishment to the changes of the S2. Please, uh, state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Welcome. Certainly. My name's Joey. I live in Midtown Anchorage. Like you said, I was here last time, but I came to comment on the S version.

I want to thank the mayor for doing this S version. It's— I think it's a sign that the assembly and the mayor is coming together to work collaboratively and try to find a solution. So that does make me feel hopeful. As far as the S version itself, I consider it to be a good middle ground. I feel like it's a good compromise.

The original version, it may have been, might have been too encompassing. It might have been unpragmatic. Whereas this, I find this to be very practical, having common sense regulations in high-risk areas. And given that, because it's not a whole ban on the whole city, we can't call this illegalizing homelessness. That's not the issue here.

It's not that it's a crime to be homeless. It's a crime to set up encampments in high-risk areas such as schools, public trails, and busy roads and such. So to me, I view this as an excellent solution, and I'd urge the assembly to support this. Thank you. All right, thank you.

Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, my name is Michael Patterson. I live in District 1.

Yeah. So I oppose the S2 version. Frankly, it's bullshit. And I'm going to give my reason why I think it's bullshit. So I used to intern at the Coordinated Resources Project at the Alaska Court System, so which is the mental health court.

If you honestly think that there's enough resources for the mental health court to take on a huge influx of new people, you haven't ever been to one of those hearings. And when I also worked at the District Court, I was part of District Court calendaring, so I calendared all of those hearings for the Mental Health Courts and the Veterans Court, Drug Court, so on and so forth. I think I saw in the S2 that it was robust. That's not the word I would use. I would use overburdened, overtaxed.

Also, you know, this idea that, oh, instead of charging someone $10,000 for a Class A, $500 for a Class A. These people don't have homes. $500 Is not any different than $10,000. If you are houseless, it doesn't matter if it's $5 or $100. You don't have a home.

And also, I just want to say, I think it's cute that you changed the thing from camping to overnight sleeping, because I don't know if you know this about sleeping. You usually do it overnight, and it's usually, if you're lucky, for 7 to 8 hours. And so essentially, yet again, we are here over the failure of the city to address the housing crisis. And what we have the mayor proposing Yeah, it seems nicer on the front of things, but functionally is the same thing. You are criminalizing existing— you are criminalizing being unhoused.

And so you can say all you want about therapeutic courts and also this pre-charging diversion program, which it's in the planning phase. What is it? What office and departments are working on it? What is the actual criteria to qualify for? Pre-charge diversion.

So what the mayor wants to do is say, oh, we should criminalize being houseless. But there is this pre-diversion program doesn't actually exist. Where is it? Who's working on it? Can the public actually see what this is?

And this idea that you're going to pass the burden on to the state courts to handle folks that do need help with mental health problems and the people at the court, the judges. I've seen the courtroom working groups that they do good work. But there is no way unless the city is going to subsidize the therapeutic courts with taxpayer money, which I have not seen that be proposed here, it's not going to work. It's bullshit. And yet again, you are putting members of the community against each other when it is the failure of this city, the elected officials, to solve a crisis that they created.

Welcome. Please state your name. What part of town? Town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello, my name is Deirdre Goins. I'm from Midtown. Um, I just wanted to speak to 2 reasons why I'm opposed to AO 2025-74, and I hope that they can reach to the reasons that are holding you guys back from— this is a moral issue. We are harming people in our city. Each of you were elected to represent them.

They are also our neighbors. People who are unhoused are also your constituents. So consider how your actions affect them. Statistically, and there is proof and evidence I am happy to bring, that this will harm these people. It will make them worse off.

When you don't have money, when you are already traumatized, being further traumatized and harmed financially is only going to make it harder for you to reach a baseline. My second reason that I asked you to please against— vote against this is because it's financially unsound for our city. This is going to increase the burden of inmates in the Anchorage Correctional Facility, and the Anchorage Correctional Facility already just got a reduction of state funding. So it is only going to put us in a worse position to be able to provide supports to all of the citizens, including our homeowners. I myself am a homeowner who lives in Campbell Creek.

I have to have these difficult conversations with my 8-year-old twins about why these people are living here, and their answer is not that they deserve to be locked up. Their— how can we help them? And so I will ask you to move forward. How can we help them and do what's fiscally responsible for the city? Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is Megan Dubbenham. I live in Southwest Anchorage and I own property in Midtown. I am testifying in favor of the S2 version of AO 2025-74. I will focus on just one reason I support this ordinance, and that is because of the protection it provides Campbell Creek and the Campbell Creek Trail. My family lives near the trailhead of the Campbell Creek Trail at Victor and Diamond.

We've enjoyed biking, walking, and running on the trail for the 21 years we've lived here. When our kids were in elementary school, it was a big adventure for our family to bike all the way to Arctic Roadrunner for shakes. We would do that several times each summer. I also pounded out a lot of miles on the Campbell Creek Trail training for the mayor's Midnight Sun Marathon. I loved it.

Having such a beautiful trail in the middle of the city is a treasure. Unfortunately, the Campbell Creek Trail is not the treasure that it once was. There are camps interspersed along the trail at several locations. Those camps produce trash and other more hazardous materials. It doesn't feel safe to use the trail anymore, and I would never walk on it alone.

I believe it's time, and frankly way past time, for the city to prohibit camping along trails so that those trails can be used safely by everyone. During citywide cleanup each year, our church group cleans the first half mile of the Campbell Creek Trail as well as the actual creek. This year we weren't allowed to enter the area directly behind the Fred Meyer gas station because there had been a camp there. The campers left so much trash that trucks had to be brought in to haul it off. In the areas we were allowed to clean, we pulled 3 shopping carts out of the creek, as well as bags and bags of trash.

This contamination of Campbell Creek is unacceptable and must be stopped. One final story about the Campbell Creek Trail. We own commercial property that backs up to the trail in Midtown. Unfortunately, last summer a large camp was established in the woods behind the property. All sorts of criminal activity came from that camp, including fires, theft, toxic pollution, and drugs.

Campers threatened trail users as well as employees. The city finally abated the camp in the fall of last year. However, campers returned this spring and have continued to cause problems for our tenants. One of our tenants became so desperate and hopeless about the situation that he suggested that the area be clear-cut. To make it more difficult for campers to set up camp.

I know that many treed areas throughout our city have been clear-cut to make camping in those areas less desirable. However, clear-cutting cannot be the solution to prevent camping in our green spaces. If we decimate our green spaces, what does Anchorage have left? Our trails, green spaces, and waterways are the things that make Anchorage great, and they are worth preserving and protecting. That is why I support this ordinance.

Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Sean Devinham, a local business and property owner in Midtown. I'd like to stand before you and urge you to please, uh, support and vote for the S-2 version of this ordinance. I feel like it is a common sense compromise as a business owner and property owner here in Midtown. Downtown and other places throughout Anchorage, we incur tens of thousands of dollars per year in security and vandalism. And although this isn't the silver bullet, it's a great first step.

I urge you to please pass it. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Sam Garcia. I live in Eagle River. I've been an Alaska resident for the past 37 years. Most of that time in Anchorage. I've worked around treatment programs doing outreach for around 6 years.

First and foremost though, the reason I do that is because I'm a person in long-term recovery myself from substance use disorder. And, you know, I haven't had to pick up a drink or a drug since April 8th, 2016. I share my recovery out loud to let others know that it's possible and for those that haven't found their voice yet. You know, today everything I have is because of that.

We are in a crisis. There's no one organization, no one pathway, and I don't believe the answer is locking up the unhoused. I believe many in our community are only a missed check or two away from not being able to pay their rent or mortgage themself. Criminalizing homeless people doesn't work. It fails to address the root causes of homelessness.

And it perpetuates the cycle of poverty and incarceration. By treating homelessness as a criminal issue, it diverts essential resources away from addressing the actual problems, such as affordable housing, mental health support, economic opportunities, and it only burdens the legal system and does nothing to provide sustainable— a sustainable solution.

When I hear people say, "Why don't they just stop? Why don't they just get a job? Just stop drinking. Just stop using." The notion of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, while that sounds great, for those that are struggling with mental health, it's very unrealistic. It's like asking somebody that's in a wheelchair to simply just get up and walk.

We must recognize these limitations and move forward with more realistic and a real effective approach. I think we should concentrate more efforts on more mental health, more substance abuse, more things like the Navigation Center, outreach, peer support, offering more pathways to recovery. I am for diversion programs. I think that's a, a great way, um, helping individuals find a way forward rather than a way back to the revolving door that can be DOC.

Our first responders are vital. They're making amazing strides with the HOPE team, everything they're doing out there in the community right now, but I just picture there being a break-in and not being able to respond because they're moving somebody out of a homeless camp that is struggling with poverty.

People can recover. They can find a way. We need to make the resources available. And it takes a community. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Before I start, I'd like to provide some reading material that was created in collaboration with some of the unhoused population running at Davis Park.

I'm sorry, your time is running. Okay, thanks. Go ahead, please. My name is Murat Demir. I am a former business owner.

I'm a journalist and a mental health clinician, and this is directed at whoever is willing to listen. I'll keep it short and sweet. The implementation of this ordinance would be an egregious violation of human rights. It reflects the implicit biases and the fascist and colonial beliefs of the mayor and the members of the assembly who support it. Let's be honest about what this really is.

This ordinance is not about public safety. That's just propaganda designed to obscure the true motivations behind it. What it's really about is the criminalization of poverty in a society that values property and profit over human lives. It's a confession. It's a self-report of our so-called leaders' thoughts and beliefs, beliefs that are evidently shaped by neoliberal capitalism, insulated from reality, and devoid of empathy.

These are not policies grounded in public health and psychology. If they were, they wouldn't target addiction and trauma with criminal charges. They'd offer structural changes that would empower the homeless population.

But to do that would mean confronting the very structures that produce this crisis, structures our leaders serve and benefit from. So instead, they turn homelessness into a misdemeanor, They hide the symptoms so they never have to face reality. And in doing so, they step over the bodies of the poor to protect the comfort of the rich. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Maya Scheidler. I'm a West Anchorage resident.

I'm here today to speak out against this ordinance as well as both the S1 and S2 versions that would see carcerality as a means of quote unquote, addressing the unhoused crisis here in Anchorage. Criminalizing a population that is already facing blatant systemic barriers to basic human needs will not heal or fix the problems that led to this crisis in the first place. Additionally, I feel it is imperative to acknowledge—. Chair, point of order. Sorry, go ahead.

Hold on one second. Can you just bring the microphone a little lower so we can get it on the record? Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

I feel it is imperative to acknowledge that our Anchorage unhoused community is disproportionately and predominantly Alaska Native, signaling the violent, pejorative, and continuing impacts colonization has had on our indigenous community members. The truth is there is decades of research that proves that Housing First initiatives have a much better success rate at reducing homelessness than any of these types of initiatives. That lead with criminality and further harm. When you give people an opportunity to have basic human needs met, you truly serve the community you have been elected to represent. I implored you to lead with efforts rooted in addressing problems at the source rather than creating more barriers for our unhoused neighbors.

Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

[SPEAKING CHINESE] Hi, my name is Christine Chen, and I live near Lakewood. I work night shift, so I should be sleeping right now, but I feel very strongly about this issue and am upending my sleep schedule so I can be here today to testify in opposition to all forms of this ordinance. The goal of our homelessness policy should be to help people off the streets in a way that honors their humanity, and I don't believe that any version of this ordinance meaningfully achieves that goal. Criminalizing something is ineffective unless people have alternatives to behaving in ways that would be considered criminal. The biological reality is that humans can't not sleep, and there's not enough shelter beds or space in treatment programs for the hundreds of unhoused people in Anchorage.

If unhoused people have very limited to no options for getting off the streets and complying with this ordinance, It serves no purpose but to continually shuffle people among encampments as they are forced to move around and to punish unhoused people for simply existing. In fact, the fines and jail time associated with this ordinance would serve not as a deterrent but as an added obstacle to people who are trying to find housing or jobs to improve their situation. I also want to address some of the points that supporters of this ordinance have raised. One, that this will reduce crimes being committed by unhoused people, and two, that this will put people in the system, rehabilitate them, and connect them with help. For the first, I want to emphasize that there are existing laws against crimes like theft, drug trafficking, and assault.

A blanket ordinance targeting all unhoused people does nothing that these existing laws don't already do. And in fact diverts resources away from addressing actual crime. And for those who view this ordinance as a way to get people connected to resource and treatment, I ask, why can't we cut out the middleman of the criminal justice system and just provide direct assistance to unhoused people? Cutting out the middleman would reduce costs and be more fiscally responsible. Why do we need to criminalize people first in order to help them?

What I've been hearing from both supporters and opponents of this bill is that we need more housing and mental health and addiction services. So why can't we focus on that instead of criminalization? To conclude, I oppose this ordinance in all forms because it does nothing but punish unhoused people for existing, will make it harder for them to access jobs and housing, does nothing to meaningfully address Anchorage's homelessness issue, and applies cruelty to a systemic problem that requires compassion. We've already heard testimony from unhoused people who say that this ordinance will only hurt and not help them.

At the end of the day, I believe that housing is a human right and that public space is for everyone, including unhoused people. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello, my name is Evelyn Luna. I was born and raised in East Los Angeles. I've lived in Anchorage for my adult life, 31 years in the Mountain View area. I've worked in tourism, airlines, and hotels, and I've spent the last 25 years as a full-time resident property manager. I've raised my family here, and I care deeply about this city.

I am here because whatever we're doing isn't working. Now we're looking at AO 2025-74, an ordinance to criminalize public camping. But we have to ask, where is the infrastructure to support it? The Anchorage Coalition to End Homelessness and agent— and related agencies have received over $250 million, and homelessness has only increased. Where is the data?

Where are the measurable results? We're throwing money into systems that are failing everyone, both the unhoused and the community. This ordinance cites Grant Pass versus Johnson, which says enforcement is only legal if shelter space is not available— is available. So again, where are those shelter options? Let's stop pretending that parking lot camping is a solution.

We don't need more bandages. We need real proven models. One of those is a program developed by Faces of Hope Community Services. In fact, California is now implementing a parallel state-backed initiative modeled after this approach, structured transition housing with clear accountability, wraparound services, and a path forward. It's low barrier, but not low responsibility, and it's working.

Why aren't we looking at, at that here? Other cities like Colorado Springs are reducing homelessness through models that combine compassion with boundaries and measurable progress. This is what we should be investing in, not more experiments with no exit strategies. My message is this: stop funding failure, start implementing what works. We don't need another task force.

We need leadership. We need accountability. And we need to stop being afraid to demand results from those who are being funded to resolve these crises. I'm not here to point fingers. I'm just here to push forward a real solution.

I'm here to help. I love this city. And I want to see Anchorage become the place we're proud of again. I'm done being quiet. And now we're going to start speaking.

For speaking up. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

Good afternoon. My name is Helen Mowley. I'm a District 3 resident and an attorney testifying on behalf of the ACLU of Alaska. My remarks today will only address the changes made in the S2 version. The ACLU of Alaska urges the assembly to vote no on the S2 version of this ordinance.

We appreciate the sponsor's efforts to make AO 2025-74 less punitive and more clearly understandable. However, our organization remains concerned about the unconstitutionality of this ordinance and its reliance on criminal punishment as a response to homelessness. The S2 version defines camping as overnight sleeping specifically rather than sleeping in general. However, this definition still raises due process concerns. To comply with the due process clause, criminal laws must give people adequate notice about what conduct is prohibited so they can adjust their behavior to follow the law.

The S2 version of this ordinance does not give people experiencing homelessness a meaningful opportunity to comply. Compliance with the code is impossible here. Everyone needs to sleep overnight in order to survive. While the text of the S2 version only prohibits overnight sleeping on quote-unquote protected premises, other parts of the municipal code still prohibit sleeping on all public land. This means that even if a person experiencing homelessness leaves the protected premises, they are still at risk of being fined for sleeping anywhere.

In short, this S2 version does not change the fact that there is nowhere that people experiencing homelessness can sleep overnight or for a substantially equivalent period of time without violating the law in Anchorage. Additionally, the preamble of this S2 version makes reference to the existence of therapeutic courts as well as a pre-charge diversion and treatment program in planning by the administration. However, nothing in the ordinance itself requires require police or prosecutors to seek referral to these resources prior to enforcement of the new Criminal Code provisions. Similarly, the S2 version does not guarantee the availability of these resources. Without such provisions, this S2 version risks initiating criminal cases that can jeopardize prospective employment or housing rather than ensuring that individuals have the support or the stability they need to exit homelessness.

For these reasons, we strongly urge you to vote no on the S2 version of AO 2025-74 and instead to focus on advancing housing-based solutions to the homelessness crisis. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes, and please introduce your dog too. Yes, I will. This is my friend. His name's Fatso. My name is Brian Vaughn, and my address is 5078 Mountain View Drive, space number 1.

If you Google Map it, that area is what's become known as the Snowdump of Mountain View. And that's where I've had my house for the past couple of years, where during the winter, me and my friends would hold up and keep warm by the heater. And all that was just destroyed here last month. And now my friend here, he's tired like me from walking around most of the night. And, uh, yeah.

There's already enough laws on the books. You don't need no more laws to make what I do, my lifestyle, that much more harder. I mean, nobody was interested in that piece of land. Until we moved on it. The last administration went to do an abatement and they backed off.

There was garbage service supplied, there was sanitation services supplied. They actually put the outhouses up in the snow dump. And come that fall when we didn't want to move into the park, because I stated upstairs at City Hall that with my drug and alcohol use, I don't feel comfortable living in a park where children play. I can't advocate for a park. Well, I was in an area outside the neighborhood just living my life.

And as they were abating the camps throughout Anchorage, anyone that didn't go to the shelter, they would tell them to come to Mountain View. And that's how we ended up with all the bad apples. And I apologize for anything that any of my friends might have done to accost anybody. I keep trying to educate them on it, that these people have just as much right to a park as anyone else. You shouldn't be in the park with that, with your lifestyle.

I mean, but where I was at wasn't close to no trail. Wasn't close to no community. It was blocked off on one side by the highway, Mountain View on the other side, Mountain View Drive on the other side, McCary and Boniface. It's a little 4-acre stretch of woods that the public didn't come into. And now we've got signs posted up in there, and if anyone would take the time to actually read it, I'd love to know who signed off on it because it's the most stupidest damn thing I ever read.

It says, "This property is owned by the Municipality of Anchorage, and under some municipal code, deforesting activities are prohibited." And it says, "No camping." To me it suggests it's camping in all the ways, because you have to go out and read one of the signs. I'd love to know how much they were paid for it, because they won't probably build that to the homeless too. Thank you. Thank you. All right, welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Peggy Jo Welch. I'm a resident of Mountain View. I want to take this opportunity to express my deepest gratitude to Mayor LaFrance, Police Chief Case, Farina Brown, the CAP team members, the Healthy Spaces crew, and the honorable assembly.

The abatement abatement that took place on June 17, 2025, at the snow dump in Davis Park was a day of independence for Mountain View. Since the abatement, the park has remained largely camp-free. The follow-through by the APD officers and the Healthy Spaces team has been exactly as promised, and the impact has been nothing short of transformative for our neighborhood. For the For the first time in years, residents are stepping outside, enjoying the sun, walking through the park, and connecting with one another. Children are playing in their yards again, no longer fearful of unknown strangers.

Neighbors are out front cleaning their vehicles, laughing together, and enjoying a sense of community that had long since been lost. Because of this abatement, this revitalization has brought a sense of openness sense and safety that we haven't felt in years. Certainly not since the area was overtaken by a lot of homeless. It feels like we finally have gotten our park back, and for that, I sincerely thank all of you. This situation we experienced at the snow dump in Davis Park was dire.

At its worst, the encampments became more organized with crime than anyone could ever have anticipated or imagined. Living there was like living in a war zone. No community in Anchorage should ever have to go through that and the fires. This code gives the proper departments the authority that they need to prevent that from happening again. It allows communities to thrive instead of deteriorate.

But maintaining this This process will take continual teamwork and a presence in our parks. Daily hands-on efforts that affirm we will not turn a blind eye to future problems. To the assembly, I urge you to vote yes on this ordinance. Let's keep our parks safe, clean, and welcoming for everyone to use them respectfully. Thank you again for your actions.

Words can only go so far, but your actions on June 17th meant everything to me and the neighborhood of Mountain View. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

Thank you. Roger Branson. I'm out of Eagle River. I'm currently unhoused. I've been sleeping in my car for a couple months now, and things are challenging.

Good evening. I am a longtime mental health advocate. I came about that volunteer work very organically. I got caught up in the mental health system in the mid-'80s, and I'm very concerned about this issue, this ordinance criminalizing homelessness, but I'm more concerned about the division that this causes in the community relating to mental health issues and the stigma of the community being in unrest, arguing for this, that, or the other thing makes it harder for people in recovery to be able to find the services and get into those recovery. So in the past, um, 6 years that I've been volunteering advocacy full-time, spending time in the camps and whatnot.

I would like to point out that under the, towards the end of the Berkowitz administration, that folks camping in Anchorage were told by the parks workers over and over again that if they go to the snow dump, they won't get abated. And that was the rule until the And next administration took over and immediately chose to abate that. And it's just been a mess ever since.

More than anything, though, these individuals who are caught up in homelessness, who are facing these challenges in their lives, who are experiencing poverty, we need to engage them in finding solutions that work for them. We need to promote their voices. We need to promote so that they can speak, so that they can be heard, and that we can respond to them. There is absolutely stuff happening in the camps right now that should not be happening. And I would posture that it is a very small percentage of the individuals there.

Causing these challenges. And I would further posture that the individuals who are in those camps know who those individuals are. And that if we can engage them, they will help each other to be better human beings. But mental health has a lot of stigma. And I think the administration, for the work that we've done, We've got lots of positive stuff with True North Recovery, with Acres Recovery Center.

The new HOPE team has done a lot to address stigma. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Scott Maxwell. I currently live in South Addition. And 2 summers ago I was homeless. I won't pretend for a second that I had it in had it all that bad, but I know how close I was to being in the spot that some folks are in.

As some of you are aware, I'm a teacher, and recently I— well, I'll say I too very much enjoy using the parks, using the bike paths and stuff like that. And while I was doing that the other day, I had the experience of recognizing a student among the camps. It's a reminder that my first responsibility, and I feel like our first responsibility as a community, is to the people who live here now, and that includes our, our houseless neighbors. I will always prioritize people over property. I understand that people have concerns about their property and the effects that that can have upon their lives.

But we need to take care of the people first. I— my concern about this ordinance and why I ask you to vote no on it is because I feel like it creates an enforcement instrument while taking away the incentive, the impetus to actually address the issue on a structural level you know, just on availability of services, as others have explained to you. So for that reason, I ask you to vote no, because with simply an enforcement mechanism, that gives us a way to push the problem out of the way rather than to actually address it. So once again, I ask you not to be guided by nostalgia for what the city was, but a hopefully a forward-thinking vision of what it could be. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello, thank you. My name is Claire Boersma. I live in Midtown, and I'm here speaking personally on my own behalf today. Thank you for all your work on this. Really complicated issue.

I'm here to say I support the S2 version. I think it finds the right balance in this conversation. I have lived here my whole life. I'm raising my family here. I plan to be here for the rest of my life, and I'm very invested in seeing Anchorage be a better place for everyone to live.

I believe that this is not the only piece of solving all the human suffering today in Anchorage, but it's one component that can give city officials the tools they need to incentivize some people to get the help they need in order to live a more healthy and productive life. People I see suffering every day could be me. They could be my kids. They could be my mother or father. I am not blind to the human suffering.

And I really appreciate that the mayor has invested so much already and that this administration and this assembly are doing so much around this whole picture to try to improve the situation. So I think we need to give all the people in our community who are not living in homes lots of options, lots of tools, lots of opportunities, lots of supports. But there has to be a balance, and I think the STC STU version helps us get closer to that balance. I think what we are doing, some of it is working, some of it is not, and I am not afraid to say we should try something additional or new and see if it works. Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you are from. You will have 3 minutes.

Good afternoon. My name is Joan Wilson. I'm a resident of District 6. I want to thank Assemblyman McCormick for bringing this issue forward and Mayor LaFrance for engaging. And I also want to thank you all for your time and listening to all of us.

And I want to commend our city. I was here the first night this was brought forward and a lot of people shared opinions. Again, it's happening here today. I just hope I just have a few points because I can't read my notes anymore. I've lived here 40 years.

And I started out as a young kid. I moved here at 21, so you can figure out my age. I was working in homeless shelters.

I— my heart went out to everybody. I then became a lawyer and I took on juvenile justice prosecution because I didn't want kids to grow up to be criminals. At some point in my career and my marriage and then having my child, I moved from sympathy to accountability. Disability, only because of this. Life is a gift, and we have the tools to help people.

I know it may not help everybody, and I'm not talking about the people so severely mentally ill that we really do need to take care of them, but I'm talking about the people who gave up when there are tools here for them. I saw it of juvenile justice offenders who could have gotten out of that life but chose against it and are now in prison. And I'm tired of giving up my city to the people who gave up. I've lived here 40 years. I love Anchorage.

When I first owned my first home, I was able to run on Chester Creek Trail at 5:00 a.m. by myself. I wouldn't even go down there without a gun right now. And I would never let my daughter engage in that. I'm a taxpayer. I think you owe something to the taxpayers.

Taxpayers who care about the city. I really do. And I don't mind paying more for it. And I also have a lot of respect for law enforcement because what this is, is a tool for law enforcement. They don't have to criminalize everybody.

They can, they can choose when it is warranted. And I trust the Anchorage Police to decide that's the right tool. I'm going to turn to something I never talk about because it's personal to me, but I heard people talking about it. The other night, and that's Jesus.

In my career, I can't talk about Jesus. I talk about him now because I saw so many people saying, "What would Jesus do?" And I think Jesus takes every oppor— everything that happens to a person and turns it into an opportunity, even if that is hitting rock bottom. Don't give up on God. He's part of our solution. And don't give up on our town and use this, please, as a tool for our betterment.

Thank you for your time. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Deborah Benito. I live in East Anchorage. I'm a mom. I'm also a downtown business owner. I've run a shop right on ground zero for the last 33 years.

And I've watched it get increasingly more unsafe, more unsanitary, and more unsightly. First, I do want to also thank all of you for the efforts that you have put forth over the last several years. And the mayor, I know that we're putting more hotel rooms into service as homes. I know that we're increasing our shelter sizes. I know that we were increasing the outreach from the firefighters and the police Our police, our first responders are angels, which with amazing amount of patience.

I see them handle so many situations daily, day after day after day. An hour before I came here, I had a text from my manager that another person was ODing on Town Square Park. She was panicked. She was calling for help.

People are put through a lot, not just the people living on the streets. I've had my I've had my property broken. I don't care about the broken windows. I don't mind cleaning up when people defecate on my property, but I do mind when my baker gets a concussion because he steps in between somebody and my sister who is trying to steal things from our store. So I support the S2 version of this ordinance.

I think it's another tool in the toolbox. I think that we are making great strides to to make our city more hospitable to people who have been traumatized, are mentally ill, are drug addicted, alcohol addicted, whatever reason they're on the streets. I think we're doing a lot. And I was told— very, very heartened by the compassion of all the speakers today and their level of caring.

I'm a mom, and I believe that young people, mentally ill people, people who have substance brains. They can't make decisions on their own quite often. They need guardrails. And I think that this ordinance is another guardrail that will help us help the people who are just saying no when we, when we do have resources that we can bring them to. It's one tool in the toolbox, and I think that every time we step away from a potential tool to help people get the resources they need, we come become complicit in what's happening to them on the streets.

It's not freedom, it's not pretty. It's an ugly world out there for the majority of people. I see the fear in the young people's eyes, I see them run from certain people. I've broken up fights, I've broken up attacks. We say we can't criminalize the homeless, when we leave them on the streets to fend for themselves, they have to steal, they become criminals.

They have to steal for food, for clothing, for shelter. So I think some of the compassion is— while it's beautiful and I'm one of the biggest bleeding hearts you'll ever know, it's a little misplaced. So thank you for your work. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Good afternoon. Justin Millette, downtown Anchorage resident and business owner, property owner. I run a bunch of vacation rentals as well as multiple buildings in downtown. I was a police officer and Anchorage firefighter for over 15 years here in Anchorage.

I have witnessed firsthand the camps, have serviced them in a 911 capacity, taken them to multiple hospitals as well as just calls of service. I'm here today in strong support of the AO-2577. 74. I want to give our police officers, uh, officer discretion as well as our Department of Law discretion as well in order to prosecute repeat offenders. Um, and just, I want to kind of reiterate, uh, the impact that's having not just on owners and residents of Anchorage but also tourists.

As we're seeing, this is the first year out of 8 years we've been running the tourism industry that we're starting to see a really negative impact on our guests here in Anchorage. We've received over 15 negative complaints and reviews just in the last 4 weeks from our guests here in Anchorage who are experiencing stalking, just in, you know, terrible behavior outside of parks in our downtown areas. And it's creating a really negative reputation for Anchorage as a tourist spot, which is a substantial amount of revenue for the city of Anchorage. So just in the last few weeks, we've had a family refuse to stay due to drug use as well as erratic behavior from some people experiencing mental episodes and asked for a full refund. We had another guest who was aggressively followed in downtown from the Snow City Cafe all the way to the Hilton Hotel, had to engage with Hilton security just to feel safe.

Just last week, across from our gallery, I witnessed two homeless individuals get into a fight with Hilton security right in front of a, of a Princess bus full of 60 tourists. It was pretty unimpressive to watch the looks on their faces as they interacted with these two homeless individuals and had to wait for APD and one of the state troopers to show up and interact. We have refunded guests thousands of dollars just in the last four weeks. I'm all about compassion, but there has to be accountability. And the folks stealing, doing drugs, and turning our public spaces into no man's land and a space that no other resident wants to go.

Policy isn't about just a few thousand people. It's about the 290,000 people that you serve, just not the few. So as I said, I'm all about standards. I grew up here. I was born and raised in Anchorage.

I spent 15 years doing public safety here. I love Anchorage. I want to see it grow. This is a step in the right direction. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hello, my name is Joseph Pugivnik, and I live wherever.

I, I don't know the answer to any of these problems, and I don't know, but fining a person who doesn't have money anyway, where does that get you? And what do they do? They break another law just to pay the fine that you are imposing on them? I don't know. I hope you all have a good day and maybe someone will figure out why I'm homeless, why I choose this lifestyle.

It's a fine that I have to pay when I don't have money anyway. I don't know. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Uh, can I have time? Because you're— I started— Okay, well, here we go. Uh, Jamie Lopez, East Anchorage, formerly Coalition, formerly homeless. Um, Wrote something down. Probably not going to get through all of it.

So the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're traveling far down that road. Freena Brown is checking out. Today is her last day. She does not want to be the next Heinrich Himmler.

She's quietly going before atrocities are leveled. Yes, I am going there. Yes, excuse me. Yes, this is the Mon Mothma speech from Andor Season 2, but with witty banter and brutal honesty. By coalition numbers, as of May 31st, 2025, there were 1,633 unsheltered individuals under 100 days.

Very few self-resolved. Those are the ones you know about, not the ones you don't. I was honest when others were not. Farina now knows I am right. On Monday, Ms. LaFrance, you thanked me for my advocacy.

You should thank me for my honesty. I'm trying to prevent you from becoming a criminal too. On to the important discussion. Furious leaders, tyrants, and despots claiming crisis and moral righteousness have ordered prisoners of war and civilians to be driven like cattle to the point of collapse, exhaustion, death without food, water, or shelter. The Bataan Death March of April 1942 comes to mind.

So too is Mayor LaFrance's proposal, A2025-74S1, S2, S-whatever. All versions of this are bad. It is inhumane and likely would violate the Geneva Convention. This is not compassion, it is a war crime. You propose eliminating all public land from being safe to camp.

Remaining areas on the maps attached are private property subject to trespass. Shelters are full. You're not designating legal public places for 1,600+ unsheltered people to go with capacity to avoid becoming a criminal. The mayor is not listening and is receiving poor counsel. The mayor is not being honest.

Schools you wish to protect no longer appear to teach history. You're repeating atrocities in the past. There is no honor, respect, or dignity in any of these proposals. Abatements are not a sign of success. They are a sign of policy failures.

You're failing those most vulnerable in need. You aim to label all poor, tired, and destitute as criminals based on socioeconomic status for the crime of not being able to pay rent, own a home, or afford an overpriced Airbnb. The mayor's policy strategy is for homeless to be endlessly displaced, well, driven like cattle until exhaustion, collapse, or death. Some will react after repeated trauma and be jailed. People are being treated like animals ready to be put down.

It is a policy failure not to designate areas for people to go. People are farther from water and food. Creating shelter now is apparently a crime too. Even now, yearly, excuse me, even now, nearly 2/3 of those at Davis Park and Snowdump are roaming the streets of Anchorage, like nomads and gypsy caravans. You claim 50 were housed.

You have no clue. Providers cannot keep up with the movement of individuals. Many homeless will lose housing opportunities. People are removed from the HFC housing voucher waitlist. If an individual does not respond in 2 weeks, hopefully you do not live long enough to see the fruits of your labor.

Criminalize those you want. Your time has expired.

Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, I'm Sherri Laurie. I'm the— did I do something?

Anyways, I'm the executive director of the Downtown Hope Center, and we have— I actually live in East Anchorage, so, and spend 12 hours a day at the Hope Center, generally working amongst these people. I love these people. I really appreciate what's happening with this assembly addressing this. It's never really been addressed to such an extent before. This whole 74 has opened up a conversation that this city has needed to have for a long time.

And originally I was very, very against the original version, and the writers of it knew that. There are people on this assembly that have volunteered with us. They love and know the homeless people. They're donors. On this assembly that donate to us.

So I know that this assembly cares, and it's really played with my emotions a lot as I've gone through this because I know the people. And we have 250 people's pictures on our walls that have graduated from our culinary school and are working in our community. They're at Snow City Cafe, they're at 49th State Brewery, they're at Carbo— Kobucks. There are places around this community that used to live in these camps. At the last time they testified here, 2 women came up and testified.

One of them came out of the camp and she drove the food— she went through our program. She's now one of our head bakers and she drives the food truck to Davis Park. Now she can't find the people, so they're parking it and people are coming to them. But over 800 meals a day go out of the downtown Brown Hope Center to the people that are out there. So there's a lot of people out there that we don't even see.

I think the conversation is important to continue. I am personally for a large shelter. We're part of Citygate Network, which is a worldwide network of Christian faith-based homeless shelters. They have beautiful— if any of you have seen the movie, and I'd recommend watching it, No Address, The documentary, it shows these shelters. They're— everything is in one place.

People can come. You can feel life. I've visited them all over the United States. And I walk in and I keep saying, this is what Anchorage needs. We need a place where people feel like human beings, the services that they need are provided for them.

And we aren't offering that. So I do feel by making it criminal to be homeless when we have nothing to offer, if we're going to say you can't they can't do this, then we have to tell them what they can do. Where can they go? We have nowhere for them to go right now. So I think this conversation needs to continue on into a much different direction of how do we provide something for them, where can we put it.

So I just— I'm very encouraged. I thank Mayor LaFrance for putting this S2 version out. I think that was a good step. So thank you. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, my name is Kareem Chetfor. I'm in Eagle River, and I was born and raised in Anchorage. My family owned a restaurant in town, Aladdin's.

Maybe some of you have heard of it, maybe not. We were in Midtown where a lot of the homelessness has been for many years. We fed the homeless. And we were a small business.

The safety of testimonies heard today about clean, green, or safe have outed themselves as heartless and callous towards their neighbors. That is what our homeless population is— people. People.

This ordinance vilifies and dehumanizes our fellow Alaskans. We speak of so many things that have been tried many times and haven't worked. Let us add abatement to that.

I not only ask that you vote no on this ordinance, but ask that you push for legislation that refuses to abate homeless camps, period. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. I'm Billy Henthorne. I'm from the East Side, like Muldoon area. I'm a former veteran. I'm a former veteran.

I'm a veteran of the Army, and I'm a current organizer in the Party for Socialism and Liberation. So many people have said so many great things today in opposition to this ordinance, so I'm not going to take up too much time. Essentially, I want to ask a couple of questions. Some of them are rhetorical for the assembly. I know you all like to talk.

Does anyone really believe this is the best route forward to end homelessness in Anchorage? I don't really think y'all do. If you're smart, I think a lot of you are intelligent people, you have definitely heard of Housing First policies such as in like Sweden, etc., etc. These are proven to actually end the problem of homelessness because they are multi-pronged solutions that adapt or that address the various stages of development and what people are going through, different stages of life. Everybody's different.

This ordinance achieves nothing other than just, like somebody mentioned it earlier, shuffling them around, essentially causing the problem to move laterally instead of actually being anything done to be done about it. And so if you do care about parks, if you do care about Anchorage as a city, I would encourage you to ask yourself if this is actually going to do anything. And to look up, like, to go further than that, look up policies in other countries, policies in other states that actually do address homelessness and the root causes of it. I think everyone has the right to go to the park to play hockey. I, I'm a— I do historical martial arts, basically like sword fighting.

We go to the park all the time. I'm a park user, so sue me. But yeah, I would love to see the parks clean. But I think what other people have said first, human lives matter. Human lives matter, and homeless people are humans.

So I think if you really want to get this problem solved, you should actually take a look at things that have evidence behind them. There's no evidence that I've seen so far that would suggest that shuffling homeless people around and abating them is actually going to do anything, because it won't. I mean, just, I think y'all, I think y'all all do know that at the end of the day. This— a lot of echo on this bad boy. But so yeah, um, I just want to say that I, I think this is kind of a heartless ordinance in the sense that it's not thought out, it won't actually solve the problem, and it will just ultimately hurt the people that we should be calling our neighbors, finding solutions for, and helping ourselves in the process by making Anchorage a beautiful city that young people want to move to.

I'm, uh, 27 years old next month. I've been living in Anchorage for about 5 years, and every year I ask myself, what is the point of living here? The assembly— and I'm not, you know, this is my opinion— the assembly feels like it doesn't care about the people. It doesn't have well-thought-out solutions that are based on evidence or practicality. What is the point for a young person to stay here if we're going to have to do this all the time and still see no results?

Thank you. All right, um, also this next speaker has spoken before, so I just want to continue, um, that the previous speakers are only allowed to speak to the changes in the S version. So we'll go ahead, please state your name for the record, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Sarah Short, and I have spoken about this before, and I said that I was in support of this ordinance, and I want to specifically address the fine portion of this.

Having walked the camps since your last meeting, I have seen the camp behind Creekwood Inn off Fairbanks Street grow from about 10 people to about 80. I feed them at least once a week. I do their laundry once a week. Um, I bring them bags, and I encourage them to have a better life. There are approximately 40 to 60 people by West High School.

In each of these camps is a tent. The tent is very nice. It's set up for the dealer. And until you guys address the dealers and the drugs in this town and levy fines on them, the people that are camping and sleeping, the instability that you are creating with the constant abatement and not giving them a location to go to and not funding immediately Henning Inc., who's doing a wonderful job, and giving more money to the Downtown Hope Center and more money to APD Hope Team. That is an amazing team.

5,000 Feet from this building is a tent with 2 people in it. One is clean. One woman just got out of the hospital with sepsis. They have 2 cats, 3 kittens. I bring them cat food, I bring them blankets.

Every time you move them, what happens is all the videos that I take when I walk that provide video evidence of dealing, drug dealers and crimes, real crimes, not sleeping in tents, you're wiping out my efforts, you're wiping out the efforts of Terry Drake, who should be on your homelessness committee. You need to take people like me and Terry Drake and even Roger Branson and Alexis Johnson, and you need to listen to the front line. My daughter was out there, which is what started this. Making them criminals does not put them to work. Give them an opportunity on these fines, which we've dropped on this version from $10,000 to, you know, $500 and $250.

They don't have money for food, which is why they're stealing from our neighbors. They are humans. I do care very much about them. Give them an opportunity with a penalty for a job. Go pick up the trash.

You want to stay here? Go pick up the trash. Stop moving them around and helping them disperse. Give us one location so the DEA can do the job and clean up our city and get rid of these drugs once and for all? Are you not tired of funding a useless effort to disperse this throughout our city?

I want APD to have the support they need to arrest people committing real crimes. That's drugs.

I would note that the lady here with the glasses on is causing a disruption. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, my name is Lynn Woods Miller.

I'm from the Chugiak area. I'm born and raised in Alaska, and I've been listening to all the wonderful testimony. I urge the assembly to vote no on both versions, please. I'm just going to quickly reiterate what other individuals are saying. This bill is is inhumane, it's immoral, and it lacks empathy and compassion for those who are less fortunate than us.

And having grown up in Alaska, I was born here before Alaska made statehood. Occasionally friends will take me flying and I look down and I say, "Where are all these people coming from? I remember when no one lived here. I remember when this was a hayfield. I remember when this was a forest." farm, and now it's a subdivision.

All places in the world are seeing an overflow of population. We have an opportunity to take care of that overflow of population. However, I do not feel that making these people criminals is the right answer. I don't think that forcing everyone into a camp or a category is also the right answer. I'm taking care of my elderly family members.

I have family members who have fallen and broken bones twice. They refuse to go to a medical facility. They refuse to go to a long-term nursing home. They want to stay at home and be independent in their lifestyle. Maybe some of these other individuals also wish to be independent in their own lifestyle.

If I support my parents, my friends, and family, why are we also, as a compassionate community, not supporting these people?

I feel that this bill fosters a division within our community between you have, you don't. We who have are worthy. You who do not are not worthy. I don't like that lack of empathy. I also, having listened to so many people, I feel that if the assembly does pass this ordinance, either version, that they are also going to have to pass a sales tax or increase our property taxes to adequately support that.

So when all of you decide this sales tax or increase in property tax, you need to keep that in mind. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is Bert Baumhoff. I've been a resident of Anchorage for about— well, for more than 60 years, actually. I'm a former member of this assembly from back in the day. I not only see Anchorage as my hometown, I see it in many ways as my home. I have a personal stake here.

My kids all went through this school system from kindergarten on up through graduation from high school. So I have an investment here in time, in my— with my heart. I care about this town. The homeless population consists of some real serious problems. It's recognized that a significant percentage of the population is addicted.

Addicts attract pushers. Addicts are part of the— well, are the customer base for pushers. When they move into a community, like any other businessman, a pusher is looking to expand his customer base. And who is he looking for? Looking at.

If you move him near schools, he's looking at kids. Move him in those parks, he's looking at families. Anywhere you move them, move them near a residential area, same thing. They're looking to expand their base. They're influencing people, and they can recognize a vulnerable person quicker than any of us.

I guarantee it. They know who's vulnerable. They know who to go after, and they knew who to, who to coach and who get. Not only are they a problem in that respect, but other respects as well. Crime-ridden, they bring crime.

The expense, you read about it all the time. Cleaning up, the garbage hauling. What did I read, a 747 worth of garbage had to be hauled away the other day? That stuff needs to be picked up an item at a time. People have talked about the safety of our parks and what it feels like anymore.

To be afoot in our communities. We can't have that. That cannot be permitted. I strongly support this law. Strongly.

Not only is this needed, but other laws as well. I grew— my father's a minister. I grew up with a humanitarian instinct bred into me all of my life. But I also was taught that humanitarianism requires some judgment. You can't exercise humanitarian care for that person and create problems for innocent people standing nearby.

You have to use judgment, okay? This population needs to be kept away from our residences and our kids and so on and so on. It can be done. I have specific suggestions I'd be happy to make, if anybody cares to listen, on how this population of homeless can and all of the crime and disease and issues that are brought can be moved away. You cannot enforce drug rules in a mobile population.

I want to thank you very much for your patience, and I especially thank you for your stamina. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

It's on. Oh, it's off No, turn it back on, sir. Turn it back on. There you go. Thank you.

My name is Gon Gadalia. I am a current resident of, uh, Covenant House. Uh, I have been in Anchorage for 3 years now, and I have been struggling to actually keep a home. Not, uh, not only the first time I actually got out onto my own did I have to struggle with the way too high rates for rent, for purchasing a home. I, I can't get that realistically even if I was here for 100 years.

And being part of the population of homelessness that this will impact, a $500 and even $520 fine will, uh, definitely impacts my ability to live day to day. I, I live paycheck to paycheck on average, $300 per paycheck. So a $500 fine will put me out for multiple months. So I strongly encourage you all to think about the price of people's lives. And if you are willing to sacrifice months, if not years, of other people's well-being for your own safety and for what you believe will help you.

In the long run, I do not believe that will help Anchorage grow. I do not believe this will help Anchorage do anything other than look a little more racist and put a little bit more money into the police officers' wallets. I mean, if they truly do not have enough money, there's far other better ways for them to get money other than to harass people who do not have money and just to get arrest rates up. And I truly believe that it would be a great effort to fund job programs and more homeless shelters. If we truly have growing to near $2,000— sorry, 2,000 people on average who are homeless within Anchorage's borders, I do believe a more humanitarian and 21st century answer would be to provide them that housing, perhaps even in these areas that they are already in.

Thank you very much for your time, and I hope you have a very blessed day. Shabbat shalom. Thank you. Just a moment. Mr. Glover.

Mr. Chair, I would like to move to extend the end time of the meeting to 5:00 p.m., so by 1 hour. Motion to extend by the vice chair. Is there a second, please? Seconded by Ms. Silvers.

I'll speak to it. Yeah, I understand we have a few more testifiers in the room. We have gotten through our phone testimony list, and we anticipate having an executive session immediately after. And just for practical purposes, the body can decide at that time, once we have the executive session, what the next steps are, whether we continue tonight or postpone the matter to a future meeting for deliberations, but the purpose of tonight, we really need the executive session to get that out of the way. So, uh, leadership is asking for an extension by 1 hour.

All right, any discussion on the motion? Hearing, seeing none, members may proceed to vote.

Mr. Martinez?

Yes. Mr. Rivera? Yes.

On a vote of 10 to 2, the meeting is extended to 5 PM. Thank you. We'll proceed. Mr. Glatt, welcome. Please state your name, what part of China from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Thank you. My name is Eric Glatt. I'm a resident of District 4, former staff attorney for the ACLU of Alaska, former project director at United Way of Anchorage standing up the Home for Good Anchorage permanent supportive housing project, currently outside co-counsel with the ACLU of Alaska on several litigation and policy matters concerning the issue of homelessness. I'm speaking on my own behalf.

Criminal punishment has to be a measure of last resort. It's when all other endeavors have failed. And when it comes to trying to coerce people into making different or governmental approved or, uh, preferred behavioral health choices, it arguably has no place whatsoever, particularly when there are multiple alternative avenues that have been unexplored first. Even most of the people who've testified today in support of 2025-74 appear to agree that the challenge confronting this community is far vaster than anything this, um, AO would accomplish. But implicit here is the implication that all those other avenues are already in place, and that particularly when it comes to behavioral health choices all that's needed is some forceful nudge.

I think it's self-evident that in fact all those other pieces are not in place. Because of that, we're not going to achieve the outcomes that a lot of people probably expect to see if this does pass. And I would anticipate in another year you will still have lines of people and your inboxes full of people complaining that this, uh, municipality is not doing enough to address this issue to their satisfaction. There has been a lot of incremental progress since COVID money first washed through the system and the city adopted an alcohol tax. That incremental progress still needs to be pursued, and I applaud all of it.

But the COVID money is just about dried up. I think that's that last $5.5 million appropriation. And what we still don't have is an up-to-date comprehensive understanding of what the challenge is that confronts us, a vision of what it would take to confront it and to address all of the various complex needs, and a roadmap to get there, including a potential budget and discussion of how to fund that budget. Without all the other pieces in place, this is not going to lead to the outcomes people are hoping for. And again, I think you're going to see more frustration if you believe with that, that assessment, and you believe we're not going to see much change, but you feel like you have to do something for your constituents.

I would urge you to pass a resolution instead. All right, thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Nico Wolf, Fairview. Accountability is a really, really funny word to be hearing from so many people tonight. Because when you look at homelessness, you're looking at a failure of the community and a failure of the city. And yet we decide that those who suffer as a result of incompetence, as a result of greed, as a result of myriad problems— those people who suffer with the least, clearly they need to be held accountable.

For what? The ones who need to be held accountable are the ones perpetuating This is— all of this, it's patently absurd.

The idea that there is any compassion or care or dignity in relation to incarceration, I would like to speak to personally as well. I don't understand how anyone expects any measure of care can be achieved by taking someone, cupping their hands together, stripping them naked, blasting them with cold water, violating them, and then throwing them into a cold box where most of their medications, were they medicated, are no longer going to be supported and determined exclusively by, um, what specific carceral pharmacies are going to decide people are allowed to have or not have, where if someone had medication that worked for them, they will no longer likely have access to that because care is not the purpose of incarceration. It's about separating people away. That's— anyone who thinks that locking someone up is going to do any good for them does not know anything about the carceral system. And on top of that, if we're talking about a population that is significantly full of folks with substance abuse problems, why are you putting them in the Department of Connections?

They're going to be surrounded by every single dealer, every single user, every wrong person to know Anyone they don't know, they will know by the time they get out. So it's absolutely backwards. People are getting increasingly desperate. Most of them have been moved time and time and time again, at least those who have not died yet. And to then say, "You have no option, you cannot sleep, you will freeze this winter," I don't understand how the city does not realize that it is creating the conditions that will invariably result in violence, be it violence from law enforcement, violence from the unhoused.

It will absolutely not be any kind of clean, pretty green space when people are shooting at each other or the trees are on fire or you're looking at another dead body this morning. While you're trying to get on the fucking bus. All right? That's not what I want to see in this city. I think the people who claim to care about Anchorage by trying to get rid of Anchorage's people should get rid of themselves.

Go leave. Find another town. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. All right.

My name is Charlia Buckley. I'm 14 years old. And I live in South Anchorage. I bike around a lot, and it's depressing to see this. It's depressing to see the effects of capitalism.

And why can't we put that funding into shelters instead of villainizing homeless people, right?

And— They're not criminals for like stealing from stores. They just want food. They want shelter. So what if they like live in hotels? It's just— I wish we could just do more for shelters, making more shelters.

Instead of funding things, this is like an issue across America. And like, why are we like funding Israel, giving them more money? And why can't we put that into issues in our own country?

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Thank you, Chair, Assembly, for listening.

My name is Aaron O'Shea. I've lived here almost 20 years. This is home for me. I'm somebody who not only has experienced homelessness here but is strongly connected to this community out here. First of all, I want to point out that I think it's a common misconception that most people who are homeless are drug addicted or, you know, or they have mental illness.

I think that a large part of the population— I'm sorry. Just one second. Go ahead, Ms. Baldwin-Day. I'm sorry, would you mind pulling the microphone down so that we can hear you a little bit better? Yes, ma'am.

Thank you so much. I'm sorry. That's better. Thank you. Thank you.

I feel like a large part of the population is actually there because of circumstance, and it's not as many who are drug addicted or mentally ill. I think it's a really— a big misconception. But if you'll just excuse me for a second, not good on the mic. But listen, I think this is a dangerous ordinance and sets a bad precedent. You guys, um, in its original and substitute forms, it offers no new shelter beds, no affordable housing, no real solutions.

What it offers is punishment, tickets, arrest, forced relocation for people who have nowhere else to go. Let's be clear, this ordinance will not reduce homelessness. It will make it more traumatic, more expensive, and more deadly. Anchorage has over 3,000 people experiencing homelessness on any given night. Of these of these, or roughly 400 to 500, have no shelter options available.

Anchorage's existing emergency shelter capacity, already strained and inconsistent, does not even begin to meet the need, especially for Alaska Native residents, elders, disabled individuals, couples, LGBTQ+ people, and those struggling with mental health issues. The consequences of inaction are already written in the obituaries.

In 2022, Anchorage saw a record number of homeless deaths, estimated at 70 to 80 individuals, many of them Alaska Native. In 2023, that number remains staggering, with at least 49 people confirmed to have died unsheltered. These aren't statistics. These are people I knew, friends, people I lived and loved with. These are people I knew.

Um, uh, we used to have this strong connection out there. I feel like it's being stamped out entirely with this.

It feels like a final blow, honestly, um, to— that is destroying our community. Um, proponents point to the recent Supreme Court decision, but legality is not morality. Just because you can pass an ordinance doesn't mean you should. You know, we must lead not with fear, but with data and dignity. You know, I've got 5 seconds, but there are things that work.

There have been cities that have shown us— thank you— things that work. Can we please model ourselves on them? I wish I had 2 more minutes. Join a community council. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. My name is Will Walker. I live in Spenard. What's obvious from hours of public testimony is how salient these issues are in our community of homelessness, public safety, public order, especially in our public spaces, our parks, our trails.

I know I'm committed to being part of the solution, and I'm interested in trying to get at the root causes and actually exploring solutions to these problems that we recognize we have as a community, and I appreciate this this body and administration, the seriousness with which you all are taking these issues. However, I think it's important to actually, again, get to the root causes, and I do commend this body and the administration for some work on those, especially with increasing housing supply, providing funding for rental assistance and rapid rehousing and other services. However, I do have issues with this ordinance as it stands, that it won't, I think, achieve some of the goals that it's trying to do. In particular, you know, there needs to be somewhere where people are allowed to be, and I don't know why we're moving so fast with this ordinance and what happened to designated camping or designated parking that could be kind of options for people affirmatively where they can go rather than just where people cannot go. I think that would affect the implementation of this.

You know, officers might reach out to people who are where they're not supposed to be, and they'll ask, "Where can I go?" Right now we don't have a finalized map for what this looks like, but you'll ultimately have— it will just be displacing people to the corners that are not specifically prohibited under this. There's still a corner of Davis Park, for instance, and we'll still see the kind of conglomeration of folks in unsafe conditions that this isn't going to address. Second, We've talked about therapeutic courts and kind of off-ramps. We need to make sure that there's sufficient funding for those things. We had someone testify earlier that we don't have those resources currently through the court system and through existing services, especially as the chair mentioned during the work session, you know, we're staring down the barrel of losing Medicaid funding, and where's the funds going to come from for those service providers to provide those off-ramps?

And so if we're not providing providing those actual services for— to address the behavioral health issues for a subset of this population, then it's just going to be punitive. And finally, on enforcement, I appreciate that this administration's stated approach is to seek compliance and not necessarily seeking charges and incarceration, but this is going to be a tool, if it's in code, that can be used, in theory, to the fullest extent under the law. And so I might trust this administration, but can we trust a future administration to administer it with humanity, or might we expect the fullest extent of the law? That could be up to a year, especially if charges rack up from folks sleeping in public. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello, my name is Aaliyah My name is Jennifer Carter-Shavings. I am from Midtown, but my family is from Nunavut Island. We are Yup'ik Alaskan.

That being said, I did want to address— I know that it has been brought up, but— sorry.

The large majority of people that this issue affects are Alaska Native. I know that's been brought up before, but essentially this is criminalizing us on our own land, on Dena'ina land.

I have been houseless before. I currently have loved ones who are houseless.

I have done volunteer work for Food Not Bombs, providing food for the houseless in our community. And what I have seen mostly— sorry, I have also— I currently live and have lived in some of the worst parts of Anchorage.

Rarely ever have I been harassed. Mostly I get asked for a lighter or for a cigarette. People want to chat. What I have seen is people in need of help and compassion. We need community funding and not policing.

Lastly, I encourage you all, everyone here, if you are approached in your car when you're stopped at a red light by a houseless person, please don't just ignore them.

Please look them in the eye if You don't want to offer money, just a head nod, just a wave, just acknowledge that they're human beings, members of our community. Anyway. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Thank you. Welcome. Chris, are you speaking on your behalf or the council officially?

Just you. Okay. And for the public who doesn't understand, an elected representative representing a community council may have up to 5 minutes. Right. I'm only talking for myself today.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Good afternoon. My name is Chris Stoner, and I will disclose I'm president of Midtown Community Council, but I am talking for myself today. Thank you for the opportunity of being here. Thank you for taking this subject up and having a very open conversation. We've heard a lot of really sympathetic talk tonight about homelessness and people who are in that situation.

Because of that, I'm really changing what I'm going to talk about. I'm going to talk about one camp in Midtown and one small business and how they're being affected by that camp. In this camp, In this business, in their parking lot, prostitutes are doing business. And when they are asked to leave, they are told no.

Campers argue with firemen when the fire department is called in to put out fires and the fires are being used to burn rubber off of copper wire. Campers harass customers inside and outside of this business. Campers use business restrooms and then lock themselves in the restrooms for hours, thus preventing employees and customers from using the restrooms. Dealers are selling their drugs in the open. There's a chop shop that was doing business in this parking— business parking lot and again wouldn't leave when they were asked to leave.

There is one woman in that area that walks around with little to no clothing on. There is theft, there is theft, and there's more theft.

Those are just basics of what are happening on that particular camp. That camp has 11 people living in it as per our count that we did this week. They also had a drug dealer that was there. He drove a really nice BMW. He had a girl with him and a guy with him.

We heard some really good testimony earlier today about the drug dealers, and I would totally agree with that. We really need to deal with this as we can with our police department and prosecutors. I support the S2 vision of this, and thank you again for allowing me to speak.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. I have ADD, so I got to read.

I lose my focus. Would you pull the microphone down? Yes. This is for— to be mindful of time. My name is Cora Francis Malone.

I am not from Alaska, but I have been an Alaskan resident since December 1993, September 1994 for Anchorage in particular. I have lived in various apartments, not too many, but a few amounts to be familiar with the city. I've never truly been homeless in Alaska till recent, June 2nd, 2025. I don't feel at home in this state since the death of my children by OCS and OPA. Both those sister agencies are a great— are in great need of modification, eradication, God willing, if possible.

I do not feel safe as far as this as far as the state goes, but I did not share that same sentiment towards the city. I want to feel safe in the city and/or anywhere I land, of course. With that said, I do not know exactly what we are doing here. I haven't had the chance to learn what we are petitioning for. As far as a matter of territorial subject, that's understandable.

What I do not understand is what all The details of the ordinance law or proposal is being presented, and what does that have to do with individuality for the homeless population varies. We cannot lump everyone under the same umbrella. I'm asking you to consider not criminalizing homelessness. Rather, build resources and have alternative sources that people can turn to because criminalizing poverty is cruel. Not all homeless people are criminals.

Instead of creating laws that step on or kick a person while they are already down and out is cruelty. Please find it in your heart to find the right avenues so that it will pick a person up instead. While all, while all of you are living a safe, secure, comfortable, and maybe even a lavish lifestyle, lack of those blessings are not easily available to others. Please do not forget that the lack of those same blessings that you all get to enjoy does not make a person not human. And on the contrary, being cruel towards the poor and stricken is inhumane.

I am begging you, please find it in your heart to listen, but to really hear us, hear the voices that have been silenced. We are individuals. We are all individuals who have a story that can tell you how that came to be. Please don't punish the homeless community, for it is largely diverse and possibly growing. Please consider ways to help and not hinder, not criminalize, because some of us have been put through the wringer unjustly and undeservingly treated like trash.

Please do not discard what has been damaged. Instead, salvage what can be saved, for every individual is a life that you can help save. Save, not throw away. I think together we can come up with more ideas for a better solution. Thank you for your time.

I hope we can make it better for everyone, not just for the lucky few. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Oh, uh, thank you. My name is Miranda Walso and I live in Chugiak-Ee River. Um, I wasn't sure I would make it here in time after work, so I'm glad that it's still going. Um, thank you for the opportunity to comment on the substitute versions of AO-202574. I want to begin by recognizing the substantial effort that went into developing the new S2 version of this ordinance, as well as the various amendments which have been discussed in work sessions and look to refine elements of this plan in strategic ways.

It's clear that many of the changes respond directly to feedback offered during earlier testimony, including concerns raised about enforcement thresholds, penalties, pretrial diversion programs, and the need for safeguards for vulnerable members of our community. That responsiveness is commendable, and your efforts are appreciated. This is a hard issue. There are few topics in this city that provoke as much passion and frustration as the question of how we manage public spaces while also responding humanely to homelessness. What makes this— Sorry, Ms. Walser, I'm going to interrupt for just a moment.

You already testified, so I need to admonish that you can only speak to the changes in the S2 version. Correct. Oops. Um, in that context, the S2 version represents something unusual but vitally important: a genuine compromise. It moderates the scope of prohibited areas.

It narrows the focus to the most unsafe and inappropriate locations. It adds guardrails and clarifies enforcement pathways. It doesn't go as far as some would like, but that's why it may succeed where other efforts had failed. There's a saying: a good compromise leaves everyone a little unhappy. Debate.

And while that may be uncomfortable, it's often a hallmark of thoughtful, balanced policymaking. This ordinance won't solve homelessness, but it can provide an enforceable, constitutionally sound tool to protect our parks, trails, and neighborhoods. It becomes part— and when paired with diversion programs, outreach services, and housing investments, it becomes part of a broader strategy. It's the kind of leadership Anchorage needs, and I encourage you to support the S2 version of the ordinance as an example of that. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello. My name is Dawn Morse. And do I get 2 minutes or 3? Sorry. Yeah.

You spoke before as well. Yeah. So please keep your comments to the S version. Go ahead. Thank you.

I am from Mountain View. I am a lifelong Alaskan. I've lived I lived and run businesses in Anchorage for 21 years. I raised 4 children here. I am very distressed to hear that Farina Brown may be leaving the muni.

I find her genuinely caring, a visionary for good change. If true, her resignation would shout from the rooftops the misdirection of this administration's priorities. I'd like you to consider that.

I am so happy to live in Mountain View. Most days I walk out and I clean our earth. I plant wildflowers in the small open spaces along the paths. I speak gently with my neighbors because healing our earth brings ripples of peace. It helps our eyes and our hearts to soften to see tiny growing things.

Beings and clear beautiful spaces. I'm a grants consultant. One of my clients, Alaska Native-led Trusted Connections, offers indigenous-centered healing circles that surround hurting people of all heritages who have experienced trauma with a circle of care. Unlike prohibitively expensive behavioral health, this approach honors traditional paths to healing through community, helping people to find their own transformation. There are 3 things that strike me about Mayor LaFonte's proposal.

Sleeping would become— sleeping in public would become illegal. We began this meeting with a land acknowledgement, beautiful land acknowledgement. Almost 60% of the unsheltered people in Anchorage are Alaska Native of the hypocrisy of this proposed ordinance to make it illegal for people to sleep on the land that was stolen from them, and that the assembly and Muni gives lip service to before each of their meetings, leaves me almost voiceless.

Muni representatives have stated publicly everyone is given the option for shelter. We know that isn't supported by the numbers. I question—. I'm going to interrupt again. I'm going to interrupt again.

I'm just— I want to make sure people understand, if you testified before, you really are supposed to testify on this very specific changes of the plan. I didn't testify before. Oh, I thought I had asked you if you did. No. Okay.

Go ahead. Can we please move it back to where it was? I stopped the clock. Your time is running. My time is up?

Come on, Chris. You interrupted me. Please move it back. I stopped the clock, ma'am. Your time is running.

Stop the clock, Chris!

I ask, how could we make the muni statement that everyone is given the option for shelter true?

And I have a paragraph on how to do that. Thank you. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Your time has expired, ma'am.

You took my time. I'm asking for compliance with the rules now. I'm asking for compliance with the point of order. Can I ask the testifier a question? You may.

Can you please finish your testimony? I'd like to hear it. That's actually not— I can't hear you. That is not a question. My question is, um, what was the rest of your testimony?

Thank you.

I question the genuineness of the choice between— Mr. Chair, how many of us— Mr. Johnson, I do not believe that question is in order to ask somebody to finish their testimony. I agree. I'd also like to raise a point of order.

There is a disturbance in the audience. I agree. In fact, I'm going to ask this whole group to be removed if you don't come to order. Okay, you are warned, you're creating an actual disturbance. Sir, ma'am, excuse me, a point of order has been raised.

I'm going to agree with Mr. Johnson that the question is out of order because it is an open-ended question not seeking to find facts but instead to continue a member of the public's testimony. By you. Point of order, Mr. Chair. I, I I think the gentleman in the white hat, I know you've been waiting for a long time, but— You are warned.

You are warned. You're creating an actual disturbance. Mr. Wong, please speak to the chair. Mr. Chair, the gentleman is creating an actual disturbance.

And on your second point of order, I also agree, and they have been warned. So the question was out of order. If you have a fact-finding question, something specific, it would be in order.

She was asking me about my facts. That's not a fact-finding— Thank you. Your time has expired, and now you are creating an actual disturbance. I need you to move away from the lectern. Security, please remove this individual.

Wow. She's unwilling to comply. You're my assembly member. I voted for you. And I voted for you.

Amen.

Thank you. We'll proceed with the public hearing. Next, please welcome— the microphone has been turned off, so if you're ready to testify, we'll need you to turn the microphone back on. There's a green button. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Lucille Williams, and I am also from Mountain View in the snow dump. Um, so this If this actually isn't a law, right? Not yet or whatever. Then how is it that the police can bug us and then follow us and keep us, tell us to keep walking? Like, we can't even stop to use the bathroom.

We can't stop to catch our breath. Some of them are actually really nice and, you know, but some of them, are just real assholes, okay? And they don't gotta be like that. I mean, we understand where they're coming from, and, you know, it's just gonna— we're all supposed to work through it. But some of them, if they weren't who they were, trust and believe my ass would be in jail right now.

But, but I'm working on things, and so is everybody else. But now that they pushed us out of the snow dump, now there are people doing drugs here, there, and everywhere. At least over there we made sure that all the bad stuff was put— we tried to keep— make sure that they were in the woods so the kids and their families and everybody wouldn't see that. And now they just kind of bug us, a certain few. I mean, I've got a couple on recordings and stuff, but I mean, they were even rude to my kids, not knowing that they were coming to get me out of the whole situation during the indictment.

And maybe they should overlook some of them instead of all of us.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] All right, thank you. And before you speak, sir, I at the end of the last meeting had a point of order called and did not really have an opportunity to address the point of order because there was only 2 seconds remaining. And so I will say right now and right here that we have a limited public forum. And we do not regulate the content of your speech beyond the fact that it must be in compliance with this ordinance and the limitation that you previously spoke. So you may speak to the changes.

However, I will let you know that we can regulate the time, place, and manner of speech. And if the volume in this room becomes so loud that people cannot hear, I will stop the time and we we will stop your testimony and we will come back to order. So I just want to put that out there before we begin. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes. Okay, Chris, I will speak really quietly, okay? My name is James William Tebow. I'm from South Anchorage. I'm here to speak on the proposed changes to ordinance number AO202574S2.

I'm coming at this with a different perspective than anything you've heard tonight. There are several changes here listed by— respectfully submitted by Suzanne LaFrance, the mayor, that have not been pointed out tonight. The whereas clauses mentioning therapeutic courts, pre-charging diversion, behavioral health interventions, Are we gonna try and trick homeless people into the criminal justice system by making them think that they need to go to therapeutic court? Mrs. Mayor, do you understand that therapeutic court has a financial yearly cost?

That cost can be waived for certain applicants. Do you understand that just because the Municipality of Anchorage and Acting Municipal Attorney Joseph Busa says that we are switching to a pretrial diversion behavioral health therapeutic court first, that we should be putting homeless people into the criminal justice system just because? Do you know what it takes to get to therapeutic court, Mrs. Mayor? I had a girlfriend in 2015.

I was awarded an award by Judge Wallace for helping my girlfriend get to therapeutic court. She was from a Native village. I helped her get to the drug tests. Do you know that they call your color? You have to be downtown in 2 hours.

Do you know how hard it is to get downtown if you don't know how to ride a bus? This woman had 4 children and we took them in tow everywhere we went. Not everyone has someone like me to assist. When I spoke with you at your inauguration in depth, I asked you to come out and speak to these encampments. I told you specifically abatement wasn't working.

I was the guy at Anchorage Town Square with the "Thank you, Suzanne LaFrance" sign and the "Homelessness is not a crime" and "Care about our neighbors." That was me. We spoke for about 20 minutes and it was a good conversation. What you've brought forth with this respectfully submitted is not what we talked about. It's not what we voted you for. I want to bring up the buffer, the 200-foot.

My friends were on 54th Avenue and Old Seward Highway, Mrs. Mayor, last year until they were abated. I used to go there after work and sit until 6:00 AM and wait for the first bus. Let me tell you, Mrs. Mayor, there is not a lot of sleeping going on in these camps.

Let me point out a legal loophole. Are you going to trick people going to therapeutic court because they don't know their, their Bill of Rights? How are you going to prove in a court beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone was sleeping? By sending them to therapeutic court where they don't know their rights. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Welcome, sir. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

My name is Bruce Ferguson. I am currently the chair of the Hillside Community Council. I'm not here to speak for the community council. I also participate in a recently formed coalition for the homeless between Hillside Community the Sand Lake Community Council, and Northeast Community Council. That organization was formed about 2 months ago to review and look at the homeless initiative as the mayor has planned, as well as the good work that you folks have been doing as well.

I also work with a group of folks that we call ourselves a missional community organization. We assist people that through some tragedy, loss of their home, don't have the means to find another home. Generally speaking, those folks fall into a category of usually they're renting and through a fire or some other catastrophic event, they don't have the ability to find another place. And so once they get past that with the assistance that's provided through Catholic Social Services as well as Red Cross, then we step in and help them with their physical needs as well as trying to help them place them somewhere. That's a little bit about my background.

However, one thing that I did want to provide testimony for is without exception in all those groups there are people that are deeply compassionate about the people that are affected by homelessness. In all cases we understand or try to understand the disposition of those people as they kind of try to navigate through homelessness and all the various different demographics that are involved with that. I do want to say that without exception, in each one of those groups, housing is the number one priority that comes up, and of course that is the biggest and most expensive challenge that we have before us.

The other theme that comes in there is that folks, without exception as well, have kind of reached their end. Their personal safety, just navigating some of these camp areas that are in parks or adjacent to or around parks, or even in some cases directly in their neighborhood, have created a sense of insecurity. One that I personally do not think is fair, regardless of the disposition of whether you're homeless or not. The criminal activity that takes place in some of those camps, not all, definitely has an effect on each one of those individuals and them feeling safely— safety. The other thing is simply the idea that each one of us have children, and we would love to enjoy the parks and those spaces without having to be concerned about medical waste and that kind of stuff.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. All right, and welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is Susan Brenner. I live in Southwest Anchorage. You are my assembly member. Thank you. For bringing this up.

It's not perfect. AO 2574 is not perfect, but at least it's bringing attention to things that we need to look at. Those members who have been on this assembly for years, what have we been doing? Because it hasn't been working. All the money that is spent on hotels, refurbishing Taxpayers are tired.

I'm a taxpayer. I've been here since '75 when we first moved up here. Moved, went away for college, came back, lived all over the state with my husband's job and my job. What we're doing is not working. Where is the accountability?

I don't care if you're homeless, you're paying taxes. We are all accountable. Accountable to each other. What's going on right now, there is no accountability. The crime rate has gone up.

The homeless population have increased. The money spent, where did it go? What benefit has it done for both taxpayers and the homeless? Nothing. It's increased the population.

We're tired. Taxpayers are tired. People who support homelessness are tired because it's— what we're doing is not working. At least this has started the ball rolling to talk. I just wish both sides would be able to talk to each other instead of yelling at each other and having their minds set on what they want to do and not listening.

So again, thank you for bringing this up. Thank you for at least starting.

Mayor, I don't agree on most of your policies, but that's okay. At least you came to the table and you're presenting something. It's not perfect, but again, where is the accountability? I'm tired of things being locked up because of the theft. I'm tired of my neighbors' houses getting broken into.

Garage doors being left open and things being wiped out. There has to be a stop. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello. Okay. Hi, uh, my name is Kyle Ledbetter. I live in Midtown, um, and I, I think this entire amendment— I should say I didn't comment on the original version of it, so I'm going to be talking about the original and the amended version. I think they're both really, really disappointing.

I— like, you guys have heard from dozens and dozens of people about how this is not going to solve the issue. You have to know this isn't going to solve the issue. Well, France has presented a more equitable version of it, but the truth is the intent of this is just to punish people for something that's largely out of their control, and I don't think that's who we are as city. I don't think that that's, you know, what the people of this city want. I think they want to see positive outcomes for these people, for homeless people.

They do not want to see them, you know, assigned with fines that they can't pay just because it's constitutionally allowed. I don't think that's a good excuse. I think that we should be, you know, putting our effort and our resources into things that will actually help this city, help its people. I just think it's very disappointing. I don't think that The original version of this bill was offered in good faith, and I think it's really disappointing that we're continuing to talk about it like this and pretend that it's like some real measure to try and fix anything in the city.

You're just throwing people you don't like in jail. That's really all there is to it. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Hi, my name is Jessica Parks. I live in East Anchorage, and I'm speaking I'm speaking on behalf of myself right now. Over the past 3.5 hours, we've heard a lot of stories.

During that same 3.5 hours, another story happened. There is a young mother, 23 years old, infant child. Every shelter is full. The past 3.5 hours have been spent trying to find a place for this woman to sleep. She has been accepted into a program in the Valley.

On Monday. If this ordinance had been in effect, if she chose the wrong place to sleep tonight, she could be charged with a crime. Thank you. Thank you. Um, welcome.

The microphone's off, so hit the little green button. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Kenny. Thank you.

I'm speaking on my own behalf. I know some of you, and I thank you for the heavy lifting that you're doing. If you don't mind, I'd like to introduce myself in my native tongue. Kiské yu du asákwa, tantakwan tekwe di, hutsit. Isha dachang ayahát, nachsha dachang ayahát.

I'm Tlingit. We can document 14,000 years on this land, and we are proud to say that we are the grandchildren of the Dine.

With that said, I'm— I know as I look at this provision that there's lots— there's more pain to happen. And in that regard, I will share with you that from birth to graduation from high school, I changed homes 22 times. I can't say that I had a home, but I had lots of change. So my heart goes out to those. And from the Tlingit's perspective, those folks doing the wintertime here, boy, they're tough, really tough to be able to make it through the winter.

And many of them don't. The question is, what can we do to help? I urge the council or the assembly and assembly's legal counsel council to take a look at this language and do some comparison to the eugenics language that came out. There are some striking similarities that we want to avoid. We don't need to go down that path.

I also encourage that the city, while it's focusing on internally, also focus on what's happening in rural Alaska. We are facing a couple of things here. Food security, housing security, and in 18 months, this assembly, this council, this community faces energy security.

When those three hit, it'll be enormous pressure on the— those least able to withstand it. This community already has the highest spark gap in the nation. The highest cost of energy in the nation per square foot. And it's impacting everybody. When it impacts this community, when the cost of energy or anything goes up here $1, it can go up $4 in a rural community.

They're not staying there. They're coming here. This is going to be the community that is quote unquote safe.

While I was homeless, One of my friends was threatened with this very issue, and he was certain that he was going to be thrown in jail. You know what his response was? Don't threaten me with a good time.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Kenny. Is there anyone else who hasn't spoken who wishes to be heard? Anyone at all?

Seeing and hearing Seeing none, public hearing is now closed. I would like to ask for a motion to adjourn into executive session. So moved. Second. Motion approved.

S2— 2S. So there is a motion to move into executive session that was moved by Ms. Brawley and seconded by Ms. Baldwin-Day. So a motion to approve is not yet in order. And, um, so before we take a vote on the question of whether or not to move into executive session. The question for the attorneys is, what is the foundation for us moving into executive session to discuss this item?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The assembly may decide to go into executive session to seek and receive legal advice from the municipal attorney's office on the various versions of AO 2025-74 and the amendments thereto. If the assembly votes to do so, an executive session would be appropriate under Anchorage Municipal Code 2.30.036(a)(1)(5) because it would involve discussion of information on a specific legal matter and subjects which by law, municipal charter, or ordinance are required to be confidential, including the provision of legal advice subject to the protection of the attorney-client privilege.

All right, is there any discussion on the motion? Mr. Boland. Thank you, Mr. Chair. If the prior versions— versions prior to the S2, so other than the S2— are not moved, is it still the position of the administration that we should have an executive session?

Executive session?

I can state the position of the acting municipal attorney that there are some offered floor amendments where I would appreciate the opportunity to briefly offer some legal advice. Okay, thank you.

Anyone else? Seeing, hearing none, then members may proceed to vote. The question is, uh, shall we adjourn to executive session?

Member Martinez? Yes. Member Rivera? Yes.

On a vote of 11 to 1, we will adjourn into executive session. Mr. Presidio? I have a point of information, please. The meeting was extended to 5:00 PM.

I'm wondering how you wanna resolve that. Thank you. [Speaker:DAVID] I was just gonna speak to that. So procedurally, the only types of actions that the assembly is allowed to take when adjourned into an executive session are procedural in nature other than to give advice to attorneys. And so I anticipate that because the public hearing went on so long that there will be one more motion to extend the meeting.

Done inside of the executive session if we determine relative to the question that Mr. Bohlen just asked that we need that time. Separately, for members of the public, just so you understand, we adjourn, we will take up those questions in private. We will come back down. Other than a motion to extend or something similar to that, no action will be taken up there.

Only action that we take will be here. The action that we take hear. Could be an introduction of an ordinance. It could be a postponement of the ordinance to a future meeting to finish the debates. The public hearing is now closed.

And so what could happen is we come back and we spend however much time, probably an hour plus or minus, debating, or we move that to a future meeting. So we'll know that when we're done with the executive session. Mr. Yeah, I just want to continue my point of information, um, that the action on extending the length of the meeting can happen in executive session. That's what I want to make clear.

Yes. Okay, thank you. Yeah, it's procedural in nature, and we just report the vote when we come back out. Mr. Gerker.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Would it, would it be, would it be more prudent to give the folks here in the chamber some certainty and just say, hey, can we do a motion before we go into executive executive session that we will actually pick this up at the next meeting. So we do executive session now and then we adjourn at the end of executive session. That way these folks don't have to sit around and wait for us to decide.

[Speaker:MICHAEL WRIGHT] I think that— I don't know procedure. This is a Dean question. If we've just taken a motion to go into executive session, if we make a motion to postpone the underlying item to another meeting now. Is that germane? Is that allowable under the rules as we have just moved to recess into executive session?

One moment.

Thank you for your patience, Mr. Chair. Now, everybody, we just conferred because I'm uncertain, but I think that any other motion at this point is out of order because we already have an action approved to go into executive session, and I think that is the best course.

Member Mr. Myers has another question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can we just reconsider the last vote, not going to executive session, postpone everything to the next meeting?

I, I would offer that can be done, but I do not believe a motion— it would be good for us to take the executive session up at the next meeting. I believe there would be time to take up the deliberation at the next meeting, but not time to take up the executive session and the deliberation and get all of our business done. So it would be the request of the chair that however this works out, we take up the executive session tonight. And so a motion to reconsider would be in order if a majority agreed. The motion then would be to continue or postpone the item and then we would take up the motion to go into executive session tonight because it is on the agenda as the next item.

And so there is no problem doing that. It's the order of operation. So your question— the answer is yes. Motion to reconsider the last vote we just took. So there's a motion to reconsider the question of going into executive session.

Mr. Myers. Seconded. Seconded by Baldwin-Day. Is that right?

Yep. Okay. Any discussion on the motion?

Ms. Brawley. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I would just offer in context of that, I think if members are seeking certainty about the timing or the outcome or the procedure of this, I think this is inherently a legislative process that is uncertain and unpredictable. And so I guess for my part, I would like to learn more in the executive session first, and so I do not support this.

Okay, and, um, and on the question of the motion to reconsider, I have a number of folks in the queue. Or is it on that question? Go ahead, Ms. Baldonday. Yeah, I just, I just want to be clear, and perhaps this is more of a question than a comment. My, my interest in moving to reconsider is, is not, um, not to, to make any dis— um not to preempt an executive session.

I think that's very appropriate tonight. It's absolutely what I would like to see happen. My concern is that I don't want to leave the public on hold for however long the executive session might take, and I think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to have a time certain when the debate will continue. So that is why I am in support of reconsideration. So I'll have myself in the queue unless Mr. Mr. Gerker, you were in the queue to speak on the motion.

Yes, Mr. Chair, I was just going to also speak and essentially say what Ms. Baldwin-Day just said as well, is that I— let's— yes, let's have the executive session tonight. That makes a lot of sense to me. I'm fine with that. But let's also not leave the public hanging.

So I would offer then, since no one's in the queue on the question, that, um, that we can actually— actually, I'd like to ask Mr. Martinez to speak to what he just Mr. Martinez. Right on, Chad. Thank you. Well, essentially, we're all verbally committing to the public that we're not going to vote on this tonight before or after the executive session. And so we are being asked in this motion to have faith that we are going to do that vote to push it to next meeting and postpone it to the next meeting, have the executive session.

When we already have an executive session, we could just tell the public we're not going to come back and vote on that, and you all put your elections on it. It's just our verbal commitment at this point without a procedural step seems to suffice if it works for people. All right, Mr. Rivera.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. So can you just clarify, because that last comment confused me. Um, so there is no motion pending right now for us to postpone action on this ordinance?

That is correct. Okay, so then when that eventual motion does come, then members will vote yes or no on that motion. Um, so I, I think for my part, um, executive sessions take however long they take. And so I think it would not behoove us to try to put some predetermined cap on how long an executive session should take, because sometimes we learn things in executive session that lead to more conversations. So I will be voting no, um, because I want us to take the time that we need to.

Thank you. Thanks. And I think the question was slightly nuanced the main question is that, is there a commitment of the body to move to postpone this item tonight? And so that's what I think the question was, not set a time certain tonight when we would end the executive session, but the question to reconsider is now before us. I think we'll just finish this process and then, okay, Mr.

Bond. The reason that we're having this debate right now My understanding is that Myers, Member Myers moved to reconsider so that then we could extend the meeting, not to take up a motion of postponement. So I think we're getting— did you, did you say you want to have a motion? I would be happy to revise my motion to say postpone to the next meeting. Okay, so at the end of the day, I was supposed to leave here at 4, so I'm really ready to go.

Go, and that's part of why I want to move this down the road. Got it. So knowing that, then I'm, I'm just not going to support the motion to reconsider. Thanks. All right, so we're back now on the motion to reconsider.

Anyone willing? Any, any further questions? I am seeing and hearing none. Members may proceed to vote.

Member Martinez?

No.

Member Rivera? No. All right, is that the tally? On a vote of 5 to 7, the motion to reconsider has failed. So we will now adjourn into the executive session and, um, we'll be back when we are done.

Um, yeah, we have, I would say, about 8 minutes to get up there and get adjourned in and make that motion to extend. So we have to be— Mr. Chair, is there anything you would like to say to the folks that are here in terms of what you anticipated being tonight? My hope will be that we complete the executive session and then continue the debates to Tuesday, but that is a matter that is up to the body. Yeah, it's unlikely we're going to come back and vote on it tonight.

Yeah, that's— I can't say what's going to happen, but that's my hope. I'd suggest going home.

Shine. Don't let them steal your mind away from you. Said if they owed you money, I don't need a penny from you. Oh, you, you're stronger than you think. Don't let these wounds sting upon me soon, 'cause you're 4, 5, 6 on time.

Still goes. If your booty's sitting, your house caves in, then nobody else at fault. Think I did something bad, I did something bad. Never question the hand they had. Say, if they owe me money, if they owe me something, let's go run and spend it all.

Say I'm not very lucky. If they owe me something, let's go battle Spain.

Yo, I'm so very lost. Oh, things hadn't going my way. I've been on both lows and the craziest. We don't move up on the big side. Let me take you down.

Looking the world After every turn, it scares me like it do. But it's all a ruse, I always lose. I wake up and begin to choose. I don't know what to do. We have a breeze to hang out and nowhere to go.

Don't let them take your shine, don't let them steal your mind. Way for you. Said if they owed you money, I don't need a penny from you. Oh, you, you're stronger than you think. Don't let these wounds sting.

The bomb is soon, 'cause if 4, 5, 6 long times, you know they will relaxing. Time's chasing after me. I need a little substance. Not sure where it's headed, but I know it's going somewhere. Take a cab and don't look back.

I'll move through all the silence. Now I'm colder than the weather. Steady going under pressure. I'm finally over being Lowkey under these old covers. Now I'm back and I'm better.

Steady going under pressure. Sit back and watch the paint dry. Take time and watch the dope rise. In another world, I have control of my mind. Can't seem to get it through that things I do but on my own time.

Waiting slowly fading, the mirror is telling me I got to grip it right in front of me. Secure the seat and don't release the opportunity. Now I'm colder than the weather, steady going under pressure. I'm finally over being lowkey under these old covers. Now I'm back and I'm better.

Steady going under pressure. Sit back and watch the paint dry. Take time and watch the dope rise. It's passing hours dancing. How the hell am I still standing?

Keys are resting, I'm not playing. Maddies are infiltrating. Now I'm colder than the weather, steady going under pressure. I'm finally over being low-key under these old covers. Now I'm back in the mood.

Another summer coming gone. Oh, the sun's leaving.

If I close my eyes, it'll never happen now.

Oh, the sun's leaving. Oh, another summer coming down.

How does one love? How does one sing? How does one be anything at all? How does one love? How does one How does one be anything at all?

I get lost and I like it like that, I like it like that. Love has its cost, now I'm all back, cuz boy, I'm back. How does one love? How does one see? How does one be anything at all?

How does one love? How does one see? How does one be anything at all? How does one love?

How does one see? How does one be anything at all? How does one love? How does one see? How does one be anything at all?

The sun is setting on our love.

Somehow you kept me.

Guess I haven't cried enough.

Let me love you down. Let me love you down. I never came over. I hate, I hate when I'm sober.

Let me love you down. Let me love you down. I never came over. I hate, I hate when I'm sober.

Let me love you down! Let me love you down! Let me— let's go again... [MUSIC] Let me love you down! Let me love you down!

Let me love you dead!

Nothing's better than being home. With your loved ones, you won't be alone. When it's cold out, you'll be in warm in your own bed and from the storm. Home is calling when you feel adrift. It'll always be there and never miss.

Life has got you all around. You never feel you got your feet on the ground.

Home sweet home is where I wanna be. Home sweet home. To find some peace. You are worried of what's to come, but you never know until it's all said and done. You can stay home all night and day, resting your mind, keeping all bad thoughts away.

Home sweet home is where I want to be. Home sweet home, a place to find some peace.

Home sweet home is where I wanna be. Home sweet home, a place to find some peace.

Nothing's better than being home with your loved ones. You won't be alone when it's cold out. You'll be in warm in your own bed and in from the storm.

Time moves too quickly, and I know it's not like the earth is turning slow. I'm already gone, but we both know I can't sleep alone, or at least I won't.

Where I'm gonna go.

I hope that you take me seriously. I hope that nobody stays mad at me. Oh.

Oh, which way is up in your eyes? I hope I don't come down on you, cuz we're dancing on the We didn't get to say enough that you take me seriously enough that nobody stares mad at me. I know that you take me seriously. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Sometimes the world moves too quickly, and I know it's not like the Earth is turning, so I'm already gone, but we both know I can't sleep. Hello, Netta!

Take me seriously. And now, let Nova Hardy stays mad at me. And now, let you take me seriously. Oh.

Do good, it'll do good, it'll all do good.

It'll do good.

Skip this bit. It's not the lack of your judgment that makes you a kid. It's the lack of your substance that keeps you locked in. Oh, and keeps them talking.

I'll never see again. Search out a way to find a version of you you like. Why aren't you getting tired of me yet? Why aren't you tired of me yet? Why aren't you tired of me yet?

Why don't you talk to me yet? Why don't you talk to me yet?

Why aren't you tired of me yet?

Why aren't you tired of me yet? Why don't you talk to me again? Why aren't you talking— why aren't you trying for me at all? Why won't you try for me now? Why don't you talk to me?

Why don't you talk to me?

Is it a sign?

Is it just me?

Oh, all of my life, waited for a sign.

To rise. Painted lights. Round the rise. Rise.

All of her life, call out my name, she rise.

Last lives documented till the clocks just stop it. At what time does the conversation start and end? Yeah. Always the good guys coming to save us. Promise a good life, thank God that you came.

Always got Uncle Sam ready to save us. Thank God you came, thank God you came. You came, thank God you came. We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God.

We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. The bread's done, now we working for the pie. Spent a whole damn house on your wrist to praise God.

Spent like 15 workers' salary on your wrist. Place of chasing what you want, when you want, if you want, till it's up in dust. Billions burning in the clubs, so fire the police, no chasing peace. I mustn't scream, but honestly, I feel the breach. We want, we want, thank God.

We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. Thank God, thank God, thank God.

Save us. Promise a good life. Thank God that you came. Always got Uncle Sam ready to save us. Thank God you came.

Thank God you came. Thank God you came. Be a friend till the end. —Will fight. The good fighting and the lives you've changed, the effects you've made.

Is this the life you made for me? You are always a good guy, always coming to save us. Promise a good life, thank God that you care. Always got Uncle Sam ready to save us. Thank God you came, thank God you came, thank God you came.

Always the good guys coming to save us. Promise a good life, thank God that you came. Always got Uncle Sam ready The air's so fresh where I'm from. Palm trees ready-made, goods don't fry. Cause you was on your own time coming, don't stop running.

Burning the leaves in the backyard, summers. Flowers And the breeze keep warming me. Tired of the priests keep warning me. Seconds from release, it's hard to treat.

I'm too scared to breathe from my beliefs. The land of freedom, the land for me. Too scared to seek, too scared to be my own. You see, but I know I just need some selfish time. I need my relics that give me truth to what I know.

Give me ruthless weight. All these paperweights, all these secret faces, aces placed in strangers' waists. Flutter while you fall across the gap. No bridge stood, no man could reach. I pray 3 times at night, hope you hear it.

I'm nearing heights I dreamt of, heights I fear. And since nobody else can hear me, let my ears bleed, let my heartstrings rip. Following the tide, never was a sign to align to the sea. Feeling on the moon my stride— low Gs, low weight, low everything cheap! These lights these streaks might got too bright can't vision need my lenses blue ball in the sky keep turning on and on and on and on and on...

On my own, you see. But you know I just need some selfish time. I need my relics back. Give me truth to what I know. Give me ruthlessness.

Wait, all this paper. Wait, it's all fakers. Aces, aces placing. Strangers Well, I tried to think them away, but not them could keep them Everything in the town of Mighty Gumrun Bag. Yeah, seems nothing would stop him or last.

Last, last, last.

You can choose to accept it all. Try to feel it, don't try to control it. You can do it and accept it all. Your fear is bound to fall. Your pain is bound to allow.

Now. Now.

Like messing up around my friends, or losing my mom, or going out after dark just to walk my dog. Well, my crypt in my head, a glowing green rock from outer space, makes us feel like I'm screwing up and living out of place. But it's me and Feeling like I'm still just some idiot again. Oh, feeling like I grew up knowing I never did. It's all these things that I tell myself while I keep acting like nobody else has felt the same thing.

In their heart. Well, I'm not a hero, but I better start. Well, I can't breathe underwater, but sometimes I wish I could. Not sink into the darkness or disappear for good. No boots or cape or shiny magic If I was in my brain, it's just memories and fantasies on which I have to cling.

It's all these things that I tell myself while I keep acting like nobody else. It's still the same thing.

I tell myself when I be acting like nobody else, expect the same things, and they are. Well, I'm not happy, but I better start.

Well, I know I ain't a super I'm not a superhero, my eyes aren't laser beams, and I can't jump over buildings, and I'm afraid of everything.

Grilled peaches with a little bit of char. Scoop of vanilla didn't make it quite far. Before the juice starts drippin' on down. Yeah, we kiss my elbows and kisses the ground. Just like a tukky up, running off day.

She's a child. Off the cave, I got too much to say. She's a child. Oh my God, it happened again. She's a child.

Way under by 4, I lost me again. Why don't you go visit the summertime? Does it miss you? Don't throw those freckles in the water. Why don't you stop sipping on tea?

Go get yourself some love. Why don't you follow that dream? Grand Peaches, Grand Peaches, all you deserve. Sweetness, self-sweetness, self-sweetness. Well, if you have ambitions in your life, there's no perfect moment to reach out and try.

Grab peaches, grab peaches, all you deserve. Sweetness sells, sweetness sells. When life is auspicious, when you just say it's awesome, when you're down to the mess that you're receiving. Heartless, harmonious, you will never find it. But bitch, you're bliss until you go change your mind.

Go do things for fun. I know that it was stolen, but go be a child for once. I let out a laugh, I let it break off. I licked it right off are we for another ball? Life is too short, you stressed out enough.

Let go of those chains that keep you so tight and tough. You know I love you, but what I want so bad is to see you grow, to see you laugh, fulfill your desires and prove them all wrong, even yourself. Mama Make it and hurry along. Why don't you go visit the summertime 'cause it miss you? A begging message from your daughter.

Why don't you start sipping on tea? Go get yourself some love. Why don't you follow that dream? Oh! Grail Peaches, Grail Peaches, how you did Self, self, self.

When you have ambitions in your life, find the perfect moment to reach and try. Braille features, Braille features, all you deserve. Self, self, self. Life is auspicious when you listen to self. Ready yourself to the message you're receiving.

I've been going color blind looking for the silver Wish the stars would all align.

Oh, I've been cursing at the sky. Let the rain fall from my eyes. I've lived a thousand lives.

You can't have my heart. You can't hold my mind. I won't stand. I won't change. You can't have my heart.

You can't hold my mind. I won't stay. I won't change. Where's the ground? I keep falling off the edge.

My ground, now you're heavy on my head. Yeah, so full of love, so full of pride, while I sift through all my vices like I'm running out of time. Just torch in my mind. Propane to the fire, ignite my desire. I can't ignore the flame.

You can't have my heart, you can't hold my mind. I won't stay, I won't change. Where's the ground. I keep falling off the edge. Lost my ground.

Now you're heavy on my head. Yeah, where is the —feels like I'm falling.

I lost my crown, feels like I'm falling. Where's the gravestone? I keep falling.

Fill up some space. And maybe the moon's only pretty cuz it's far away.

She only wants me Cause I'm keeping this blade.

It's all the same. It's all the same.

It's all the same.

Cut the love, but just you watch. I'm better than this. Just you watch. It's all the same.

It's all the same.

It's all the same. Yeah. It's all the same. It's all the same.

The leaves are turning faster with no sign of slowing down, and the birds fly south. So winter comes with the snow to blanket the town. The midday sky is The skies are clear and blue with a cool breeze in the air. You bundle up all nice and snug with something that's warm to wear. And the midnight sun is gone away with the fall colors to show.

A time to think on memories of the time I was small. All is quiet with no one round, but your voice is singing loud. So sing away, so all can hear, so the lost can all be found. And the midnight sun is gone away, with the fall colors to show. A time to think on memories of a time I do so.

A walk on Lake Superior, a time to think on memories of a time I used to know.

Do we have Mr. Martinez and Mr. Rivera on the phone?

Yeah, yeah. All right, thank you, gentlemen.

Oh my God.

All right, I don't know who we're missing, but we'll go ahead and get started again. Um, the first thing I would note, we're back from executive session. There was one vote taken unanimously to extend the meeting to 6 PM. Other than that, um, Madam Vice Chair, thank you, Mr. Chair.

One moment.

Okay, my— oh, here we go. My motion has just shown up. So I move the recording of the executive session to be held for attorney-client communications regarding this item shall never be disclosed for good cause absent subsequent assembly action that authorizes that disclosure. So there's a motion on the disposition of the tape. Tapes by Ms. Foster.

Second. Seconded by Mr. Presverdia. Any discussion? Hearing and seeing no discussion, I would like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the motion?

I am seeing and hearing no objection. So the terms of the release of the tapes are set by the motion made by the vice chair. So now we are back on the floor. We have no motion pending. What is the the will of the body.

Move to approve S2. Second. Motion to approve S2 by Mr. McCormick, seconded by Mr. Johnson. Is there debate? This motion to postpone to the next regular meeting.

Thank you. So there's a motion to postpone AO 2024-74 S2 to the meeting of July 15th. So, um, motion was made to postpone by Mr. Boland, and the second was Mr. Prisverdia. That's right. Thank you.

Any discussion on that motion?

So, uh, we will publish the The attorney will publish the agenda Monday. Oh, Mr. Rivera, on the motion.

Yeah, I got a vote. Yeah, uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I will be opposing the motion. Um, I am frankly ready to vote on this proposal tonight.

Thank you. I didn't understand that. All right, Mr. Gerker. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair, look, I'm ready to go tonight, ready to have this fight out if we have to have it.

But I do think that as a body, we kind of made something of an implication to the public that we would not be debating this tonight. And while I'm, you know, personally more than capable and happy to have this fight tonight, I'm also no problem with having this later, and especially since that is kind of what we implied to the public. Mr.

Chair. So, um, Mr. McCormick, um, just mirroring Member Gerker's, uh, thoughts here, I was ready to keep going tonight, but I feel it'd be unfair to do so because the public was led to believe that we would not be doing it. I guess I'm confused about when the public was led to believe that.

I said on the record that the reason I did not postpone the move to reconsider going into executive session was because I didn't want to have a— have that question predetermined. And so I think we decide now whether we want to pick this up tonight, and I can do that. I'm happy to do that. Or if we want to pick it up on Tuesday. Tuesday, I don't think that there was— it should not have been, if it was relayed to the public, that we were for sure going to postpone, because the only thing that should lead them to believe that is this vote, whether or not we postpone it.

So that's my two cents. So I would just encourage those who want to debate this over the next few hours this evening to, to vote that way, and those who want to take it up on Tuesday to vote that way. Thank you. Miss Zellers.

I think that this kind of situation just illustrates the importance of making sure that we're not speaking for the body when there's not been a vote taken. Fair enough. Miss Baldwin Day.

I'd like to, I'd like to offer that there's a difference between what we are permitted to do procedurally and what is actually actually doing the business of the assembly in the public view. And I think we would be really, really remiss to continue this meeting and to debate and decide on this ordinance when it was implied— whether we like it or not, it was implied to the public that we would be continuing this at a future meeting. That is about the integrity of this about the integrity of deliberation and it is about the integrity of doing the business of the municipality in the municipality's view. And so given that it is nearly 6:00 p.m. on a Friday, I believe that regardless of how we are procedurally constrained, we ought to be ethically constrained to continue this conversation at a future date. So I will just speak to the motion that We have, because the public hearing is concluded, time on Tuesday.

The agenda doesn't look so overpacked, and we've been at this for already, what, 4, 5 hours, which is the length of a whole meeting sometimes, just getting prepared for this conversation. And people may not feel tired, but we're tired. And so I offer that I think we should take this up at the regular meeting on Tuesday. Tuesday so that we can not be making sausage at the tail end of a long week after a long special meeting in which we heard lots from the public and we can kind of marinate on all of the things that folks have heard. So I personally believe it's in the best interest, similarly to what Ms. Baldwin-Day said, but even for our own strength of ability to have a meaningful debate.

So I urge your support for the motion to postpone this item to the meeting on Tuesday. Ms. Brawley. Yeah, thank you. I'll say I am— I hear the arguments on both of those. I at this point know what my position is on this item.

I won't speak to that right now, but also I will be out of state and on the phone for that debate. So just to say I will be present and ready to speak to it on Tuesday as well. And then I would also just note there's a number of amendments. So another option that we have today would be to begin debate on amendments, but I recognize that that would also be a challenge.

So I guess that's all I'll say for now. Thank you. Mr. President, thank you. Just want to clarify, I think I may have heard this, but at the— while we were moving into executive session, I just said two things. I said I believe it's unlikely that we will vote on this tonight.

And I said I recommend you go home and use the I statements of both of those and did not speak for the body, just shared my own thoughts. But I would agree that we need to postpone this. I think that there's a number of amendments that are worthy of us discussing and are likely going to be at length. And I also agree that that it— I think the intent, at least that I had, was that we would not vote on this tonight. So I would appreciate my colleagues allowing this to be postponed when we can come back and debate it at a different date.

Thank you. Mr. Johnson. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. And I support postponing to the 15th.

But really, a point of information. We have already published the agenda and the addendum. Is there anything procedurally incorrect with taking this up next Tuesday? The clerk and I have kind of walked through this and the noticing requirements. We can publish another agenda, the addendum, a republished addendum Monday morning, which meets the code timeline requirements.

So if this passes, it will be published and it will be on the agenda. Okay, thank you. We definitely walked that line a little bit. Miss Brawley. Thanks.

Yeah, and I apologize, I, I, Mr. Johnson sparked my other procedural question. More specifically, I know that we can do this on the agenda on Tuesday, I would ask, or at least put out there for my colleagues, given that we do have other business on the agenda, and also to leadership, particularly since I will not be serving in the vice chair role for that meeting, being on the phone, that we contemplate moving this item to after at least some of the other potentially time-sensitive items. And I guess a question to the clerk specifically: would this appear under our usual kind of 11's unfinished business? Would this go under the 15s, which has multiple uses, I think, but ends up at the end. I'm just curious kind of where it would show up.

It'll be under the 11s. Yeah, so then I would encourage my colleagues to contemplate changing the order of the day at some point. All right, Mr. Voland. Oh wait, I'm sorry, Mr. Rivera, then Mr. Voland.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm not going to belabor this because it sounds like there is a majority to postpone, but I still oppose it. Frankly, I did not appreciate that members were making insinuations that we may postpone this or that people should leave. That's just not really a decision that individual members get to make.

It's a decision of the body. And even if individual members make those insinuations, it does not behold the body to agree with those insinuations or not. So for my part, I feel voting no on this motion. I feel like my integrity is whole and I have not crossed any ethical boundaries. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bond. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, you know, I'm still going to support— I'm the mover of this motion.

Postponement, and I'm still going to support it for some of the reasons that folks have said here. I think, you know, fatigue for us as decision makers and also some time to process some thoughtful amendments that have come forward. But I, I will echo what Mr. Rivera said. If we were not to postpone, I wouldn't feel any ethical type of way about that. And I really want to sort of make it clear, especially to newer colleagues, that it is not— it should not be a preconceived notion that we would come out of executive session and not continue to do our business or take action on an item.

I don't want the public to be given that perception or that message that executive session stops us from the rest of our business. So thank you. I would add to that that any member can make a motion, period, full stop. So that's order of operations that will get us to whatever conclusion will come. Okay.

Anyone else? Is there any objection? There was one. Members may proceed to vote.

Member Myers. Yeah. One spoken.

Member Martinez. Yes. Member Rivera. No.

On a vote of 11 to 1, this item would be back before us on Tuesday. Madam Mayor, thank you, Mr. Chair, for this moment of personal privilege. I would like to take the opportunity to thank Farina Brown for her service to our community and for her tremendous work and efforts around addressing homelessness. Farina is relocating out state, and today is her last day.

And, um, Mr. Chair, I would also ask that Ms. Brown come up to the microphone, if you would allow that. She is welcome.

Ms. Brown. Madam Mayor, and to the body, I would like to first say thank you. It has been a privilege and an honor to work for and with the mayor's office and my colleagues. It has been a privilege to work with the assembly members here and those that have stepped off.

This has been an incredible experience and an incredible journey putting together opportunities, both short-term and long-term, for individuals that are experiencing homelessness. I am proud of the work that we we have done. I am proud of my experience with the mayor's office, and I am stepping away not to run away from any of the hard work that's being done or anything that I disagree with. I am wholeheartedly in support of all that we have done together, the opportunities for debate, for alignment, and for how do we look forward to a better Anchorage for everyone, both our unhoused residents and our housed residents. It has been an incredible experience, an unexpected experience in many ways.

And I think all of you have heard me say that my hats are off to you in such a public space and to stand in the hard space where we have to look at our friends and our neighbors when we disagree, when there are decisions that are being made that feel as if they are impacted very differently. If you are on one side of the argument or the other. And so I have and will take this experience with me in such a treasured way. I also want to thank all of our providers that have come alongside the mayor's office and the assembly and our community, as well as members of community councils, people who just call on the phone and say, it's hard work, how can we help? It is a reminder of why we live in Anchorage.

Sometimes we have these conversations where people are very entrenched in an idea. But what I have found over the almost one year of doing this work is that after people are done being angry, they want to know how can they help? How do we partner? Because everyone loves Anchorage and everyone wants to come together to see better solutions and to really place Anchorage and all of our community members with the quality of life that we all want to see for each other. So again, I am grateful to each of you for stepping into this space.

I am grateful to the mayor's office, to everyone and all of my colleagues who have walked alongside me in this very interesting space, and I am very proud of the work, and I thank you. Thank you, Farina. And I will say I've known you through Akila and the Consumer Web, where you were a volunteer. Choices, the Division of Behavioral Health, the state of Alaska, where you were leading the charge. Rasmussen Foundation and the municipality.

And I am grateful to know you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will miss you, Farina. We've run out of time, so we'll be back Tuesday for our regular meeting.

Oh no.

In your own bed and from the storm.

Home is calling when you feel adrift. It'll always be there and never miss. Life has got you all around. You never feel you got your feet on the ground. Home sweet home is where I wanna be.

Home sweet home.