Port & Harbors Advisory Board Meeting of May 12, 2026

Should we go ahead and get started? All right, so 7 o'clock. Um, like to call to order the regular meeting of Portsmouth Harbor 53 Board for May 12th, 2026. Uh, can we call the roll? Uh, Packram.

Here. Willsey. Here. Ethel. Here.

Bundy. Rhodes. Here. Youngblood. Here.

Faber. Here. Ruth. And Matan. Here.

We can stand for the Pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Um, all right, approval of the minutes. There's a— there's an error in the minutes. I actually participated in the meeting last week. I'm in the minutes, but I show as being absent.

I'm going to note, take the one right here where you—. When you sign the DA approved. Okay, that you were present via phone. We need a motion to add that. Uh, yeah, make it official.

I'll move to approve with the correction that Mr. Youngblood was present. I second.

Communications. Persons to be heard. Looks like we have one, David Lethin.

Yeah, thanks for allowing the opportunity here. My name is David Lethin. I'm the owner Bering Sea Crab Fisherman's Tour, along with my partner Madison Van Amstel. I wanted to talk a little bit about the electrical, uh, billing this year. We've been here now for 20 years.

2 Years ago, our mortgage rate tripled, uh, and then this year, unbeknownst to us, when we got up here, the electrical rates went from— we used to pay $250 to $275 a month, and now it's— what's it going to be? Oh, $1,600 a month. $1,600 Based on the footage of the vessel. And in my opinion, footage of the vessel is already taken care of in the mortgage rate that went up threefold.

And now that we— now we have a electrical rate that's based on footage. So you now pay for a footage here, and then you pay for another footage here based on your, uh, on the electrical, um, on the footage. So the other thing I'd like to talk about briefly is the safety on that Dock 3, which I brought to the attention of Craig down on the dock several different times. I sent him a an email talking about guests that come down onto that dock that fall off of the outboard side towards the ships. 300 Feet of dock there.

Everybody loads on this side here on the inboard side, and then when guests get off of the boat, they get to talking, they get to walking, they happen to fall in the water. Often, I know of 10 over the last years that I've been here that we plucked out of the water. We had one last year off of the hovercrafts. Somebody had gone into the water. And so I mentioned I had asked for just a simple aluminum fencing that was no more than maybe a 2-inch bar that came up a hoop, maybe one across the middle, maybe 12 feet of it to be bolted at least where our guests are coming off our gangway, and then they turn left to go up the ramp.

And then I got to thinking about the other issues that we've had of other guests falling into the water there. It's difficult to get up. It would be more difficult for somebody that's handicapped to get up. 2 Years ago, I saw a lady come down the Holland America gangway, and she hit her button wide open, and she panicked. And thank God there was security there to stop her and whatnot, but I think it's an issue that you should look at.

Uh, it's an important one for the safety of the guests coming down to at least have a railing down that outboard side of that for safety reasons. That's why we're here, talk about the electrical, and then I wanted to throw in that, that railing issue, um, that could be easily taken care of. I send out a bid to build the, uh, to build the railing, simple railing or something to keep people so they don't happen to accidentally step over the side. Oh yeah, so clarification, you said it was $250 a month last year? Yeah, it was based off the usage.

Okay, and this year, $1,600, your first bill? Yes, right, but no prior notice to you. It was probably in the public notice when everything changed, but it just is confusing because electric is a utility. So if a 20-foot vessel is there using the same amount of power that 100-foot vessels are using, where is the— right, it's just unproportionate. Yeah, I've paid usage, I believe.

Yeah. Which, like I said, it should be a utility. I understand, like, the mortgage rate, because that resource is the dock. So that is understandable why it's on footage, because that's what you're using. But for the electrical to be correlated to your footage doesn't in any way, shape, or form reflect what you're actually using.

Was it a 50-amp connection or 100-amp connection? 50 Amp. 50 Amp. So which even at that, the rate of the amperage is 38% of what the footage space is of the mortgage. So 38% of your electrical, you put— so electrical is, I believe it's in the rates I have right here, it's 46 cents a foot per day, and the mortgage is $1.21 a foot.

It's 38%. So almost 50 cents per day, every day. And we're grateful to be able to come in, load our gas there. It's not— it's just inequity consideration on us.

Are the rest of the harbor users getting the same thing? Am I as a 58-footer? Everybody that ties up down on berth 3 So it's not a uniform thing overall. It is based on the daily harbor or the daily harbor rate for moorage and the daily harbor rate for electricity.

Last year, this got brought up to the Aleutian Ballot folks, and I talked to the city managers. They actually spoke with them last year. They had a special rate that was given to them, and we don't know exactly how that was done in the past. It was a pass-through rate of some kind that should have not been given for electrical, for electrical, correct. And nobody down there gets a pass-through rate.

So it's anybody that ties up there, they get charged the daily harbor rate based on their length. And if anybody hooks up to electrical, they also get charged the daily electrical rate. And, you know, it was, it was expressed last year that this was, there was no lease. There was no, you know, there's nothing in ordinance. There's no permit that allowed the illusion bell to do so.

By ordinance, and here's the other thing I did talk to, like I said, I did talk to the city manager today as well. Legally, there's not supposed to be any special rate for one person. It's supposed to all be at the daily rate.

Yes, sir. So is the daily rate based on consumption or is it based on the footage of the vessel? That I'm not for sure. I think it's based— okay, so then it is. So if that's the case, then it's based on the footage.

If they've got a 100-some-foot vessel, they'll get charged that, that rate. If they've got a 50-foot vessel, they'll get charged that rate. If that's— I know, I don't know that. I'd have to look that up. I would have to look that up.

And not based on consumption? No, there's a, there's a set rate that they get charged. Anybody that ties up there gets a set rate based on their vessel, based on the footage, not consumption.

Thank you.

The other thing, now we used to pump out our sewage over here at the, at the sewage pump. I don't know if it's been put back together yet, but, uh, the pump over here, we would back in there in the evening and we would pump our sewage. We, over the last few years, we've been asked— we just figured it was an ask, a consideration— to go over to Berth 2 after the ships leave, hook into the sewer, and pump our sewage Well, then it turned into $2,000 a month to pump our sewage off every single month. Most of it's gray water, some sewage. Most of the rest— most of the guests use the restrooms at the top before they come down to the boat.

And nonetheless, we're pumping our sewage. So that added up to $2,000 a month about. Uh, we are going to be pumping our sewage somewhere else. After we get, uh, things in place if we can. And I don't know how many other vessels pump sewage around here other than Allen Marine.

I think it's punitive on the charge side, charge us that much. We're trying to do what's right, protecting the harbors and everything else, and then you get asked to go over here and nobody fixes the pump. And the pump's been broken, and it's been broken, and it's been broken. So we haven't had the opportunity to come over here. We were asked to go over there because we might be in danger bumping into somebody backing into the sewage pump.

I've driven boats for 50 years. We have a bow thruster. Put that boat on a dime, I can spin it right in the middle of here with less than a foot on any side. Excellent boat drivers. All the men that work on my boat have driven boats for over 45 years, so we're able to get in there no problem.

But it might just be the pump fixed over here so that we don't have to pay the $2,000 to get the pier rate at like the cruise ship rates to pump sewage out on the end of the— and out of the end of Pier 2 if it's possible. I'm going to raise my hand on that too. I'll respond. That pump-off station is not designed for, you know, 107-foot vessel with passengers, with that many passengers. That is not what those pumps are even designed for.

They're made for smaller vessels living in the harbor to pump off. They are not designed for that kind of a pump-off. That's why you're actually asked to go use the other pump-off station, um, for the, you know, that we use for the larger ships and the cruise ships and things like that. Um, the, the, uh, the amount of effluent that comes from your vessel is, you know, that those smaller pumps are not designed for that. Well, I understand your concern in thinking that you shouldn't have that pump work that hard.

That's why we run our pump and that pump at the same time. So all it's doing is generally spinning. There's absolutely hardly any electrical or any, any restraint on that when we're pumping it through. We pumped it year after year after year and nothing ever happened to the pump except for the wintertime when it freezes. Maybe maintenance wasn't done on it, freezes up, something locks up on the pump, and that's The only time it's ever broken.

We've never, we've never hurt that pump at all during the summer. We use our own pump with that one just going through the cycle to pump the sewage off. It takes the same amount of time as it does when we go over, we would go over to Dock 2 and pump it over the port. We get charged that amount.

So I would like you guys to consider fixing that pump and allowing us to use it like everybody else has an opportunity to use it. I personally just want to circle back to the electrical. Like I said, 38% of the, of the utility is with— in correlation to the moorage. So like I said, it just doesn't make sense as to what's actually being used, that a 20-foot vessel driving the same amount of power as a 100-foot vessel is going to be charged quarter of the price of the other one. The resource that was used is still not the same.

It's all the same. The mortgage, I understand, but the electricals, I never knew that we were, or it was ever discussed that we got a special rate or a pass-through. It's been that way for all of the years that we've ever done this. Hence why you could understand when the bill's always been $250 more or less, then you get it one month and it's $1,600, a 600% increase. It's like, Wait a minute, what's going on here?

That's— that was big— my biggest concern. And we are the only vessel that works there during— there may be a couple boats that come in just for an evening and then they leave, but it's not like everybody else in the harbor or the harbors get charged electricity per foot and vessel footage charge. The one spot, it's the one boat, one boat that gets charged. There are multiple boats that get charged. One boat that gets charged over here, one boat that's asked to go pump the sewage over here to pay that.

At some point it feels like you might be getting— I don't know, just sometimes it doesn't feel fair.

They have meters on 3. Yes, yes, we're always based off of consumption, so there is meters. Thank you for your consideration.

Okay, um, any unfinished business?

Two items if I'm reading this right. You got dogs on the dock. I think Mr. Rhodes wanted to talk about that again. Is that correct? Yeah, that's listed under new business though.

Oh, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry, I just— I, I jumped ahead. No, no unfinished business. My apologies. Okay, uh, new business.

I guess since I brought it up, I can start. I'm not sure how to— where to go with this. I think we all agreed it's a problem. Um, you had mentioned Rangel has buckets. What's that?

Seems to me they may not last very long on the dock, but—. Oh, they got them tied down so the wind doesn't blow them away, but people can take them, I guess. Yeah, I don't know if, uh, animal control could be asked to include the harbors on their—. Oh, they're down there. They called me and yelled at me.

Animal control? Oh really? Yeah, they called me and said, uh, your dog's down here being aggressive. And I said, I'm looking at him. They said, well, you got dog biscuits in your boat.

I said, true. I do.

Your dog? Yeah, I said my dog hasn't been down there for months. So, so I don't know, I think someone called them, so I don't think they would normally go down there unless someone called them. Do they normally frequent the harbor? Animal Control?

I don't generally see them down there. No, no. I mean, I could certainly ask, you know, see if they'll do it. Um, I don't know if they'll do it. But I can ask them, be glad to do it.

Well, they're also the borough's code enforcement now, right? Everything else. I don't know if you guys have some thoughts or ideas. Oh, you know, I'm down there almost every day when I'm not out on the boat. A lot of times people's dogs are not on leashes, so the owner doesn't necessarily see that they made a mess because the dog might be 100 feet away from the owner.

I mean, a lot of the dogs I see, you know, they know where the boat is. So the owner goes down to the boat and the dog kind of wanders around, and then eventually he'll go back to the boat. So the owner's not really there monitoring what the animal is doing. But the owner has— must have some idea that the dog has to do it, right? So I mean, they're supposed to be monitoring and they're supposed to be— and they are responsible.

But I guess what I'm saying is they This many times aren't the ones that I see. I wonder, does harbor staff, when they're down doing the docks maintenance and/or harbor masters remind owners? Yeah, I've actually, I do know that the harbor masters, when they do the rounds, they do daily rounds, you know, they mention it to people, hey, you need to clean up after your dog. Hey, you know, we have a little bit of a rub sometimes with people. You know, leashing their dogs.

You know, I, I'm a firm believer in it because, you know, I walk my dogs all the time. And, and there is a leash law in the borough. Oh yeah, the borough has a leash law. And guess what? The city's in the borough.

But there again—. But then again, it's code enforcement. It's enforcement for, you know, those guys. Um, this, um, I think this month's billing, I did put a little, you know, I made sure a little flyer went in to remind people to be responsible for their dogs, that you You know, it's kind of a privilege and, you know, hoping that maybe that will help a little bit as well.

I don't know. I wish I had a silver bullet. I don't. It's, there are some people, as you know, that are incredibly good. I watch them come up, they clean up after their dogs, they use the bags that we provide.

I mean, we, you know, we provide dog bags they can pick up the excrement and they do a great job. And then there are others that don't. You know, it's unfortunate. What I have told the harbormaster is if you see a particular individual, I have no problem going on and talking to them. And I will.

Sure. I have no problem with it. You know. What about more signage maybe? Just, I mean, everybody should know, but.

Yeah.

We could certainly look into it. I mean, if you, you know, if you think that will help, you know, the signs are at the top of the ramp and that's the only place, right? What about approaching the borough to enforce the code and enforce the leash law and also maybe finding, you know, find 1 or 2 people that will automatically change? Yeah, I will, I will reach out to animal protection tomorrow. I'll do that.

Thank you. And see if, uh, you know, they'd be willing to, you know, start kind of make— making a round or two. Um, I've actually caught them down on the, on the port as well. And, uh, you know, said, hey man, you gotta— you had your dog on a leash. And, um, they didn't want to put their dog on the leash.

So, you know, I mean, I'm not going to get into a fisticuff with somebody over it, but, you know, uh, you know, that's what, that's what the enforcement folks are for. Absolutely. So I'll, uh, I'll reach out to him tomorrow. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Uh, anything else on dogs on the docks?

Uh, harbor ladders?

I sent pictures of the one— I was up in Wrangell last Month, and I sent pictures of the ladders they have there to May, and I don't know if they went to him or not. Yeah, they did. They're designed differently, so I don't know if they're easier. They look easier. You know, I didn't try one.

Hope I never have to try one. So the, the short answer I can, uh, the harbormasters and Mr. Wills have been looking into, into that. He's reached out to, um, the Wrangell harbormaster, waiting to get some word back on that particular model. Looking at other models as well that might be a little wider. Um, what we may end up doing is if we have, you know, there's still, there's still some of those ladders that we have now that are in good shape.

Uh, we're not going to just get rid of those. We'll, we'll hang on to those. Um, but as we, uh, we're going to look to see if there are other, uh, options. And as that gets closer and we find those, we'll, we'll bring it in front of you guys so you can see what we're, what we're planning. But yeah, we're looking at other styles that we may institute and put in the harbors.

The other idea as well is, and I saw Wrangell, they had, and they had flag where you could really identify where those things are. Mr. Wilson has looked in and talked to the folks in Juneau and found a source of supply. So that's something we'll do as well. I think that's, uh, be really good to have a flag so somebody knows that, hey, if you see that flag, that's where the ladders are. Well, at least you'd have something to hang on to and yell, right?

Yeah, exactly. You got—. So you got— if you can't get out, at least you can hang on to it, right? Hopefully somebody will come for help. I remember when there were no ladders.

We went for a decade, no ladders. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I could get up one. I think we should try. I'll, I'll, I'll watch you try when the weather gets warm.

Yeah, no, I mean, they're just too narrow. I don't see how—. I couldn't do it for sure. I don't know, that water's pretty cold. I think I can do it because it's cold, but I know what you mean.

I think we are looking at wider ones because I think that Probably what we really need. It's tough even with the dry suit on. Yeah. Even with all the extra buoyancy.

Yeah. I was explaining to how in Canada, this person that goes back and forth, he told me about these ones he's seen down there. And they're literally made out of galvanized angle iron. And they're probably 3, 4 feet wide. And they got like 3 different steps and they bolt them on the side.

They're all homemade, made in-house, but they're actually—. Seems like they'd work. I could get up one of those. Yeah, I, I think, uh, the one that, uh, Mr. Youngblood sent us, they were fiberglass is what it looked like to me, like a yellow fiberglass material. It was metal painted or if it was fiberglass, so So we're, we're certainly looking into those possibilities and really, you know, kind of shooting to maybe get some of those.

I had a diver do my— clean my bottom on the boat last fall. He was a young man, not old like me, but he went up and down that, the ones we have now. The ones we have. Yeah.

Okay, we're all right on ladders. Well, the trick is not to fall in. That's the clue.

Uh, director's report. Director's report. Um, I'll just go through this real quick. Everybody has it. Um, Mountain Point and, uh, Knutson boat launch.

Um, really no change from last, uh, last month. You know, we are in the queue per se for the, for Knutson with DNR. That's the last I got from them. Once they get through that, they're going to decide whether or not they're going to turn that over or they're going to try to give us a price for that lot. And as soon as I hear something, I'll let you know.

I do know the last time I talked to them, they're like, yep, we've got your paperwork and it's just going to take a while. So I think it will— this is not going to be anything quick, but I'll keep updating monthly and let you know where we are. Our harbormasters continue to make rounds of the harbors, assisting harbor users, monitoring the safety of equipment and vessels. Our summer temp assistant harbormasters have all been hired, so they're all completely filled. Summer hours will commence on the 16th of May, so that's good news.

We're fully staffed for the summer for our harbormasters. Floating breakwater, Bar Harbor North, Army Corps of Engineers meetings continue. We actually had one today. The breakwater replacement is still on schedule to commence this summer, and now they're saying probably late June, early July before they get a start. So that's slowly moving to the right, but the last word I got from them, I'm like, are you pretty confident that you're gonna get here and get this going and get it done?

And their answer is yes. Have they decided How far, how far are people going to have to move yet? We did talk to them. We had a meeting with them last week in person. They came up.

They kind of pointed to the very ends. They're going to come up with a schedule and let us know who and when. And our, our plan is to reach out to those folks and let them know ahead of time and then, you know, find a spot for them. So luckily, what, what they seem to think is we don't have to do it all at once. It'll be you guys down on the very end on these fingers will need to move while they're getting some things set, and then, then we'll slowly move down the, down the way there.

But they're putting a schedule together. We don't have that yet, but they promised that they'd get it to us and we'll reach out to folks as soon as we know.

Um, let's see here. On the Port Berkeley dolphin upgrades. We are currently looking at some options for that. We talked about possibly purchased materials. We've also reached out to a firm that may be interested in doing that work.

So we're in talks with them right now, and depending on the pricing that we get back, we'll take it to council and see what we can do. So we're hoping that we'll get a decent price for that. And we can move forward. So that project's still alive and we're trying to move forward. So as I hear more things, I will bring it to the board.

Yes, sir. Only one concern. What happens to the RFP process if we go with this one firm? Because we have already bid this out and it's gone through the process, there is a provision in there that will allow us to pick somebody else. Uh, as long as the price is right.

So there is a provision, and I will use that and take it in front of council to make that happen. Okay, that's, that's why I can do that. Um, port passes, uh, the port operations coordinator has, uh, put readers and cameras on there. They've been testing. It's not going to be official, uh, officially used, but they are testing this year, is my understanding.

And, uh, I have not gotten a report on how that's going, and I'll do— I'll I'll make sure I get you an update next month. Um, maintenance, we have temp maintenance workers. We have 2 temp maintenance workers that have been hired. Uh, they're currently working on spring cleanup and augmenting the maintenance staff. So, uh, we're also fully manned for our maintenance folks as well this summer.

And, uh, P&D engineers, um, we have them currently putting together the plan specs and estimates for the cathodic protection. The coatings that need to be done, pile wraps, things of that nature. Our hope is to have them get that done, and we'll put that out on the street in the fall. And hopefully we can get that bid out and get that work going, hopefully in the spring, get a lot of that work moving. We had Appledore Engineer Divers.

They were here. They did their inspection. The one good news that I can give to you is they did not find anything under the waterline that is of concern. They're putting the report together. We also had Norton Corrosion here.

They got in the water as well, and they're coming up with a cathodic protection plan for the Port of Ketchikan, and I expect to see those reports in a couple weeks. Those will be used in conjunction with P&D's plan specs and estimates that they're putting together.

Just a question. Has the, uh, promenade from 3 to 4 been inspected? Somebody is telling me some of the banks are moving. They did not inspect the promenade. They were inspecting the steel and underneath.

We had divers in the water. Uh, I've not heard of anything on, on the promenade itself. Um, if you let me know where that is, we'll, we'll have to send our own folks down there to look at it. And that's the director. Thank you.

Uh, future agenda items. Your Honor, I'd like to see, uh, Ports and Harbors bring back a survey to see when or if, uh, Illusion Ballad was offered a special rate of $250. And I'd like to see a report of, uh, other boats are getting charged electric based on footage and not consumption. And maybe if the council has to take it up, uh, and if the Illusion Ballad people or the boat owners want to come and speak to the council to see this was the process, and if it needs to be changed, or will it stay the same? I'd second that.

I have a question. Can I ask him a question? Absolutely. How often do you use the pump out, the $2,000 pump out? We're doing, uh, we've asked our guests to use a restroom.

Yes. I think we're down to about twice a month. Twice a month? Yeah, I know Bill, last year was about $2,000 a month, close to $2,000 a month. Okay, follow-up question.

So last year, did you use the pump out twice as well, or was it several times? Yes, we used several times. We used it 2 to 3 times, I believe, a month. So you're billing with $2,000 plus for that? Yes.

And what about this year? Have you pumped out or have you received a bill yet? Thank you. Have to guess. Use restroom up on top.

Still using it. We're going to have to pump here pretty quick.

Yes.

With regards to the— that $2,000, um, is that a flat rate if you use that explain that. Uh, yeah, the rate is actually per gallon, and what I have here that I'm looking at is, uh, they were charged— and this is under Ketchikan Municipal Code, uh, which is, uh, what we did is, uh, $200 per 1,000 gallons, and we waived the daily fee for them because there is a daily fee that you could add on to, and we'd actually waive that. They're getting charged 20 cents per gallon for their upland.

And on the electrical charges, does that tender float up berth 3? Is that a separate fee structure, or is that in line with any transient moorage? That's pretty much in line with any transient moorage down here. Yes, on the port, not the harbors. Yeah, there is a— well, no, it's actually even on the harbors, it's the harbor daily rate.

So yes, it's the same. The only thing that would be different is if you had, you know, you were moored, you know, for a long period of time, if you had your own slip or something like that, then you could set up your own electricity, which a lot of you folks do. But transient, they get charged the daily harbor rate and the daily electrical rate.

Follow-up: Do you know what the daily harbor rate is and what the daily port rate is? Do you have any idea? I do not. I do not. I think it's more expensive.

Find that out. For the mortgage, what are you asking, Jay? No, port rate. There's different rates. Port rate electric, port rate harbor.

So that's why I'm charged by consumption, is because I have a permanent stall. Yes. Yeah, you're being charged by usage. Right. So that's transient.

Yeah, it does. Typically, if you're, if you're in transient moorage status and you hook up to electricity, the harbor fee is, is more than you could possibly get through that shore power cord. Yeah.

The, uh, railing— now only one side of that tender float is usable, right? That correct? So if, if there was some kind of a aluminum railing restraint or railing, it wouldn't affect the use of that float other than making it safer? The, the reason that was denied is we don't normally let people, you know, um, do modifications to the dock. That did get brought up, that was taken to, uh, to the city, and it was denied because number one, there is no official dock space for anybody down there, and number two, we didn't want to put up you know, a railing over here.

Um, you know, the, the thought was if you have a tour operator, it's their responsibility to safely get those folks down the, down the ramp and onto their vessel.

Is there a bull rail? Who's got it? No bull rail on that dock. That's critically important. Yeah.

What if you were to just put some pylons in a, like, a, a portable fence or something when you're—. Cones and stuff. Yeah, like with cones or—. And then that's basically what we had asked for was, can— would there be like holes that we could stick something in? It wouldn't be an obstruction when we're not there, but at least that would add another mechanism that when we do go, we could put it there, and anybody else for that matter that ever perhaps Princess Bay, whatever it may be, so that when we're gone, it wasn't— it was null and void.

And I mean, I'd like to help out. Obviously it's not going to be cheap, but it could be very reasonable. The dock is in sections, and if we measure it out, we get bids. We get bids down south. I can put it on the deck of the boat, bring it up.

You know those concrete tabs now that you can seal it with? We put on that UHMW over the face of the wood. Over the side of the dock because we would rub against her sometimes coming in. Dan, the previous harbormaster, allowed us to— we put silicone in there and we ran the lag bolts into there to just to protect the dock, you know, and protect it. And if there's anything we can help with bringing stuff up to make that entire dock safe, I'd be happy to put it on the boat.

There's absolutely nothing set up down on the boat. I know plenty of guys that do aluminum work down there. We might get it cheaper to address all the issues that we're talking about on the safety, safety part. But I cannot imagine somebody, a scooter walker, going down there. They're having fun taking pictures, getting off of a charter boat or getting off of a hovercraft And it only takes one tiny itty-bitty step and they're in that water.

They hit nothing, it's just air, poosh, in the water. So, well, an 88-year-old woman died this week in the Caribbean on a scooter they drove off the dock. No, they would know down there, there's the rail, there's the danger, there's where the boats tie up.

My concern—. Is this more of an issue on the town side or on the, the narrow side? The narrow side. The narrow side. Yeah, the narrow side, because nobody can move.

Just no—. Did you say this was brought up to the city council last year? Not to the council, to the city manager's office. City manager's office. Okay.

Yeah, and we don't normally let let anybody modify the docks, right? You know, I mean, we don't. Can we as a city, Port St. Harbor, modify the dock? Um, it would have to be brought up through engineering and so on. We— I, I don't think I would do anything without, uh, you know, talking to P&D.

Yeah, going through the due process. Exactly. That, that is possible, right? Yes.

I feel a lot of things aren't set up to be ADA accessible and safe. So I just recently took over at Rendezvous Adult Day Center, and in learning more about things around town, looking at it with a different lens, there's a lot of things in our town that just are not set up for elderly people with disability, and we are behind the times. So I don't know if we can make a motion or what we need to do to, like what you were saying, to try to get this going forward so that we can add to some safety. I mean, if this body would like to recommend, because this is an advisory board, right, you recommend that we bring it to the city council, and then I'll, I'll, I'll make it an agenda item at the city council. Yeah, because it's not specific to the Aleutian Valley, it ever grabs other vessels with that issues with that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if this body approves that, we can certainly make a motion, uh, to ask the city council. Seems like go through the due process, right? Yeah, if somebody went over the side and got injured or died, I think they would probably sue the city, wouldn't they? Absolutely.

And they would say you didn't have any city liability, you should have had a barrier there. So that seems to me Okay. Yes, sir. Does Alamarine— you use, uh, the pump-out stuff for your boats? No, we have our own.

You have your own pump-out station? Yes, for the most part we have, we have our own. It's only, um, on rare occasions some of our smaller boats I gotta send them over to use the smaller pump-out. That's like maybe once or twice every couple years. So how does it get put back in the system?

Uh, so basically, well, we have a, we have a temporary holding tank on the dock, pump out up to the city. So we, we pay the city for our—. So you pay the city but you actually don't use their equipment? Or no, no, we have our—. We have all of our structure.

We don't have anything to do with—. I guess I'll make a motion regarding, uh, some type of a safety barrier on tender floats. 3. 3. Yeah, I'll second that.

Ask that the council—.

Do we have to take a vote or—. Yeah, a second. Russell, a second. Or you say—. I'm sorry, yeah, okay.

Just, um, can I just interject? We're talking about Maybe something a little more than a bull rail. Who knows what they might come up with? I mean, a bull head—. Though, on a bull rail, it's still— it's so low, it's a trip hazard.

Yeah, yeah, yes. Where if we just go with a simple pipe, and doesn't have to be 4 inches in all the way down, it could just be a simple pipe with one here, one in the middle, and braces. Keep it simple, make it prac.

Oh boy, yeah, I would suggest—. You see, the word advisory board, we advise, we, we send it to the city council, but it would behoove you to be at the city council meeting to explain your side of the stories. That's what really needs to happen, I believe. I don't know if anybody agrees, but yeah, yeah, and I, I'd advise, uh when that agenda item shows up on City Council agenda, that both owners should be out there speaking about the safety issue.

Uh, we can, we can add this with a simple vote. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So all in favor?

Yeah, motion passes.

Sorry, um, on the board member comments, I'll start. I, I This is the first time I heard about your situation, and, uh, it, it rubs me wrong too. I mean, I don't understand who came up with the idea that it's all done on footage just for that individual float.

I just— consumption to me is what I believe, but that's just my thoughts and that's all I got to say. Sounds like there was no notification either. Well, that's about right either. That'd be a big surprise. Yeah, 600% increase depends on whose math you're using.

Yeah, right.

I have a— just a comment unrelated to that about transient mortgage. Are you familiar with the Heritage Harbor in Wrangle? The layout a little bit. I haven't been there in a long time, so I couldn't, I couldn't draw it for you. Yeah, I've been there a long time.

When you first go in there, they have two big long floats. I don't know how long they are. They're long, both sides of which are transient. So the, the process there is you just go in and tie up, and then you call the harbor and they come down and we'll do that, do their thing, you know. But here, and Petersburg and Juno, well Juno is a little different with Statter, but you call the harbormaster and they know who's gone, you know, they know what slips are available, so they tell you which slip to go to.

Is there ever any going to be a plan or can there ever be a plan for a dedicated transient float that has enough room? City float? Yeah, city float transient. We also have, you know, we also use, it's that same thing where somebody called the harbormaster and they know that there's a certain slip or somebody's gone, they could use that slip as well. And I see them do it all the time.

But, you know, city floats are only designated transient, correct? No, we have— every harbor has designated transient spots. Well, it has a transient area. It's—. Where is it in Bar Harbor North?

Is it—. Bar Harbor North is the T-Docks on the ends of the docks. Yeah. Oh, out on the far ends? Yep.

And what about that area kind of by the net float, is that? Yeah, on either side of that is transient. Transient, yeah. You got all the parallel ties on 7, you got all the end of float 5 in Barber South, all of City Float, all of the parallel ties on float 4 in Thomas Basin. The City Float, I haven't walked down there in a while, but when I drive by it looks like there's a lot of boats that have been there for a long time.

Are they paying a daily rate? Available down there this spring more than normal. But yeah, there are some people that we make a move once a year. Are they paying like a daily rate down there if they stay down there a long time? There's a couple boats that have reserve moorage at Bar Harbor, but they like to frequent the establishments that are close by.

So they keep—. They're both there, then we use their stalls in Bar Harbor for transient vessels.

Well, this is the time of the year when the transients are coming through.

What's the difference between a transient daily rate and my term daily rate? Is it significant? Yes. Pardon? Yes, it is.

Yeah, I don't, I don't, it's, it goes by foot. I think it's $1.21 a day per foot. Yeah, right.

It seems to me a while ago, was it last year, we were talking about the Lucian Ballad and somewhere along the way it came up that that wasn't reserved. Is that spot where they go in and out, is that reserved? It is not reserved. That was, uh, that was the whole issue that got brought up. And, uh, you know, if you recall, we had council meetings, we had meetings about it, and the decision was made to make it, you know, there's, you know, we're not gonna— they, they didn't want to do a lease, so we didn't do the lease, and instead that reverted back to first come, first serve.

It's, it's, you know, per facility security plan, what's supposed to happen. Even tour vessels, it's, it's drop-off pickup, uh, pickup area only until, uh, until the end of the day when that cruise ship, you know, on berth 3 is gone. That's how that's supposed to work. That's drop-off pickup for the tour vessels. How can you function if you don't have reserves bought for that big boat.

First, I might answer that question. I mean, we're not here disputing the mortgage charge. It's a lot, okay? We're not here disputing that. As for, um, the issue of permanency and whatnot and leasing out that dock, 150 feet was a proposal to lease out 150 feet of the dock.

And I got to thinking about all the other tour operators 'Cause we all use that space. We all get along. We communicate with each other, backing in, backing out, coming and going, loading gas. For somebody to take 150 feet of that dock up and then bring on— let's just say it's not me. Somebody bring a whole operation here, they lease the dock out.

All of a sudden we're down to 150 feet for all the other vessels in this port. And then we just have the salmon landing, which is pretty small. For me, it was inequitable for me to even bid on that, which I would have gotten it, but it's not fair for everybody else because everybody else should have access for the use of that dock. We're already limited in the amount of space that we have. Once we get busy here, boats are coming and going, right?

I'm going to bid on that, I'm going to gobble up 150 feet, and no, that's why we didn't do it. I, I notified all the other operators on the dock. We got together, we agreed, we all worked together. Well, there's no reason to bid this out and give somebody the opportunity to close off 150 feet of that dock. Wouldn't be fair to everybody.

So that's the line I stand on. I'm not the one here that wants to take that space, and that's why I disputed it. And I said, no, I don't— that's not a good idea for the community. We're a community, and guests come from all over the world. Our families come on these ships.

We want to be able to take them out on the excursions that they've always dreamt on, and that's why it should be open for everybody. If there was an issue with us being there overnight, okay, we'll go somewhere else. If it's okay to tie in and plug into the power and pay the fees for the moorage, we're okay with that too. So that's, that's where we're at. But if you come in and it's— you can't tie up, what, what do you do?

I dug in an anchor. Yeah, but you got guests on board. Oh, to offload? Yeah, the boats are coming and going all day long. He can get in and out.

The only issue would be at night. Yes, we, we all work together well on there as far as getting guests off. There's often people are up where I normally dock Sometimes we'll go in the middle of the dock, we'll grab our gangway, run down there, offload the guests, get more in, off, pull up where we can closer to the ramp for the handicapped people. It's fine with us. And I've always told my crew, we do not have rights to this dock, okay?

We are here to help everybody have use to this dock. So don't for a second think that you have the right to park here. It's worked out well over the years, and I imagine it's going to continue that way for a long time.

Any more member comments?

Uh, thank you guys for coming in and speaking. Thanks, board members, staff. And I would point out, uh With that electrical usage, if— as since we're only an advisory board, if you have things you'd like the council to hear, you could include that as well. I don't know how that rate was set, what it's set at. That's, uh, that's a lot of money.

That rate is set by ordinance, just so you're aware.

But it sounds like it was like ignored in the past, or I'm not for sure what happened. Um, if you recall, this all started when we had, uh, we had people that came and complained. Yeah, you know, and that's where this all took off from. And, uh, you know, researching, there's no lease, there's no permit, there was never anything that said Lucian Ballard could, could be here. Um, you know, as far as in any different capacity, they'd had no reserve spot.

So, and that's really what it boils down to. There's no reserve spot. They should have been, in fact, paying the Daily Harbor, you know, the Daily Harbor rate and the daily electrical rate. And that didn't happen. And I can't tell you the who's or the why's because I wasn't here.

But, you know, the bottom line is when we— this reverted back You know, what's supposed to happen is all these boats get treated the same. Anybody that pulls in there gets charged the daily electrical rate and the daily carport rate. And that's, you know, there is, um, there should be nobody getting a special rate because, you know, if this person gets it, then why is this person getting it? Why didn't this person get it? And that, that's a slippery slope.

And quite honestly, um, you know, per ordinance, you're not supposed to do that anyway. You're not supposed to be making special site deals. So, um, you know, I, I can't tell you how it happened. I don't know. Um, but, uh, you know, this is where we are right now.

Yeah, I'd like to thank all the port security, the port maintenance workers, the harbor workers that retired. The harbors and the ports, thank you very much, are in great shape and are running. Now hopefully they'll continue to run all season. Also concerned about footage and moorage and electric rates. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it between this advisory body and the city council and come to a conclusion.

So, my God.

I was going to say thank you, uh, for coming. I love it when we have visitors that come and say what you need to say, um, because it's really important. I joined this board knowing nothing, uh, but I'm learning a lot, and I think that more of our community members need to come and, and see and hear where we're at, what we're doing, so you can help guide us. We are an advisory board, um, but But we've done some good things, I think. So, as Russell said, like, please go to the city meetings too and share your story.

I really appreciated you speaking out and telling us how you feel about the community too. I think that was really sweet. I don't know you, but nice to meet you. And thank you everybody for being here and the work you're doing and bringing this to the city and you for filling in for May.

Sam, thank everyone for being here, taking time out. Um, with that, we have a motion to adjourn. Adjourn. Second.