Assembly Regular - November 4, 2025 - 2025-11-04 17:00:00

That you take me seriously. And now, and Nova, uh, these days mad at me. And now that you take me seriously. Oh.

Oh! Too good it'll do good, it all do good too good it'll do good you know I'll do good too good it'll do good it'll all do judgment makes you a kid. It's the lack of your substance that keeps you locked in. Oh, and keeps them talking.

Found out a way to spend your whole life holding hands with empty faces that you'll never see again. Search out a way to find a version of you you like. Why aren't you getting tired of me yet? Why aren't you tired of me yet? Why aren't you tired of me yet?

Why don't you talk to me yet? Why don't you talk to me yet?

Me yet? Why aren't you tired of me yet?

Why don't you talk to— why aren't you talking to me at all? Why aren't you tiring me out?

Why aren't you done with it now? Why aren't you tired of me yet? [MUSIC] Why ain't you starting on me? Yeah! Oh...

Is it a sign?

Or is it just me?

Whoa!

All of my life, waited for a sign to arrive. Painted like Round her eyes, her eyes.

All of her life, call out my name. She arrives.

Lightning strikes in diamond mines. A bloody stone adorn our mind. A morning wasted on trivial An evening wasted on primitive things. Around here, everybody knows everybody. Their past lives documented to the closest topic.

At what time does the conversation start and end? Yeah. Always the good guys coming to save us. Promise a good life, thank God that you came. Always got uncles saying, "I'm ready to save us." Thank God you came, thank God you came.

We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God.

We want, we want, thank God. The bread's done, now we working for the pie. Spent a whole damn house on your wrist to praise God. Spent like 15 workers' salaries on your wrist. A place of chasing what you want, when you want, if you want, till it's up in dust.

Billions burning in the clubs, so far the police no chasing. Peace, I must chase, scream, but honestly I feel a breach. Hey! We want, we want, thank God. We want, we want, thank God.

We want, we want, thank God. Thank God, thank God, thank God. Always the good guys coming to save us. Promise the good life, thank God that you came. Always got Uncle Sam ready to Save us.

Thank God you came. Thank God you came. Thank God you came. Be a friend till the end. We'll fight.

The good fighting and the lives you've changed, the effects you've made. Is this the life you made for me? Always a good guy.

Coming to save us. Promised a good life, thank God that you came. Always got Uncle Sam ready to save us. Thank God you came, thank God you came, thank God you came. Always the good guys coming to save us.

Promised a good life, thank God that you came. Always got Uncle Sam ready to save us.

Thank God, Uncle Sam, ready to save us. Thank God you came, thank God you came, thank God you came. The air's so fresh where I'm from. Palm trees ready-made goods, don't fry it. 'Cause you was on your own time coming.

Don't stop running. Burning the leaves in the backyard summers. Flower-scented breeze keep warming me. Tired of the priests keep warning me.

Seconds from Elise's hearty treat. I'm too scared to breathe from my beliefs. The land of freedom, the land for me. Too scared to seek, too scared to be my own, you see. But I know I just need some I'm selfish, time I need my relics that give me truth to what I know.

Give me Bruce Lee's weight, all these paperweights, all these sacred spaces, aces placed in strangers' wasted blood. While you fall across the gap, no bridge stood, no man could reach. I prayed 3 times at night. Hope you hear it, I'm nearing heights I dreamt of, heights I fear. And since nobody else can hear me, let my ears bleed, let my heartstrings rip.

Following the tide, never was assigned to align to the ceiling on the moon, my stride. Low Gs, low weight, low everything. Cheap, these lights, these streaks, my guy. Too bright, can't vision, need my eyes closed.

Too scared to breathe from my beliefs. The land of freedom, the land for me. Too scared to see, too scared to be on my own, you see. But I know I just need some selfish time. I need my relics that give me strength.

True to what I know. Give me roots, please. Wait, all this paper weights on these vacant spaces. Aces placing, changers placing. The air's so fresh where I'm from.

The air's so fresh where I'm from.

Well, I try to think them away, but nothing could keep them at bay. In the town, I fight, they come right back. Yeah, seems nothing would stop them or last. Last, last, last. Ah.

If you love a man, if you choose to accept it all, try to heal it, don't try to control it. You can do it, Alexei! Your fear is bound to fall. Your pain is bound to last. Now, go!

You can, you can do it, you can do it!

Well, I know I ain't a superhero, my eyes aren't laser beams, and I can't jump over buildings, and I'm afraid of everything, like messing up around my friends, or losing my mom, or going out after dark. Just to wipe my dock. Well, my Griffin and I had a glowing green rock from outer space. It does feel like I'm screwing up and living out of place. Well, it feels like I'm still just a mini mini kid.

Oh, feeling like I grew up knowing I never did. And it's all these things that I tell myself while I keep acting like nobody else has felt the same things in their heart. Well, I'm not a hero, but I better start.

Well, I can't breathe underwater, but sometimes I wish I could. I'll sink into the darkness, I'll disappear for good. No boots or cape or shining magic powers in my brain. Just memories and fantasies on which I have to cling. It's all these things that I tell myself while I keep acting like nobody else.

Myself. When I be acting like nobody else, ask about the same things, and they are, I'm not happy too, but I better start.

Well, I know I ain't a super I'm a hero, my eyes are laser beams, and I can't jump over buildings, and I'm afraid of everything.

Grilled peaches with a little bit of char. Koopa Vanilla didn't make it quite far before the juice starts dripping Down, down, down. It reaches my elbows and kisses the ground. Just like a dookie after running all day. All the kif, I got too much to say.

Oh my God, it happened again. Wound up, I thought I lost me again. Why don't you go visit Is it the summertime? Does it miss you? Don't throw those freckles in the water.

Why don't you? Don't sip it on tea. Go get yourself some love. Why don't you follow that dream? Graham Peaches, Graham Peaches, all you deserve.

Sweetness, serve sweetness, serve with you. Have ambitions in your life. Is there no perfect moment to reach out and try? Grilled peaches, grilled peaches, all you deserve. Sweetness, their sweetness, their way of life is auspicious.

When you listen is also when you're deaf to the message you're receiving. Hard listen.

Harmonies. You will never find it, but bet you a person tell you go change your mind, go do things for fun. I know that it was stolen, but go be a child for once. I let out a laugh, I let it break off, I licked it right off there with another bone. Life is too short, here's Tristan enough.

Let go of those chains that keep you so tight and tough. You know I love you, but what I want so bad is to see you grow, to see you laugh, fulfill your desires and prove them all wrong, even yourself. Mama, make it and hurry along. Why don't you go Is it the summertime? 'Cause it miss you.

A begging message from your daughter. Why don't you stop sipping on tea? Go get yourself some love. Why don't you follow that dream? Oh!

Real peaches, real peaches, all you deserve. So with this, so with you, have ambitions. —When you lie down. No perfect moment to reach out and try. Braille features, Braille features, all you deserve.

Serving, serving, life is auspicious when you listen. It's awesome when you're there to the message you're receiving.

Oh well. I've been cursing at the sky. Let the rain fall from my eyes. I've lived a thousand lives. You can't have my heart.

You can't hold my mind. I won't stay. I won't change. You can't have my heart. You can't hold my mind.

I won't stay. I won't change. Where's the ground? I keep falling off the edge. Crush my ground.

Now you're heavy. On my head. Yeah, so full of love, so full of pride while I sift through all my vices. I'm running out of time, you're scorching my mind. Propane to the fire, ignite my desire.

I can't ignore the flame. You can't have my heart. You can't hold my mind. I won't stay. I won't change.

Where's the ground? I keep falling off the edge.

Lost my ground, now you're heavy on my head. Yeah, where is the ground? Feels like I'm falling.

I lost my crown. Feels like I'm falling. Where's the ground? I keep falling off the edge. I lost my crown.

Now your hands are A highway memorial, the fill of some space. And maybe the moon's only pretty because it's We'll be getting started in just a couple minutes.

Are you there, Mr. Martinez, on the phone?

I am, Chair. Thank you. Miss Baldwin-Day, are you there?

Yes, Chair, I'm here. All right, thanks. We'll get started in just a moment.

All right, good evening everybody. I now call to order this meeting, this regular meeting of the Anchorage Assembly. Tonight is November 4th, 2025.

Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

Member Myers. Here. Member McCormick. Here. Member Martinez.

Present. Member Baldwin-Day. Present. Member Johnson. Member Lillie.

Here. Chair Constantine. Here. Vice Chair Brawley. Member Volland.

Happy to be here. Member Silvers. Here. Member Rivera. Here.

Member Gerker. Here.

Member Presverdia. Here. Student Representative Bowser. Here. Mr.

Chair, you have a quorum. Thank you.

Mr. Dole, would you please lead us with the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Mr. Dohm. Ms. Silver, would you please read the land acknowledgement?

A land acknowledgement is a formal statement recognizing the Indigenous people of a place. It is a public gesture of appreciation for the past and present Indigenous stewardship of the lands that we now occupy. We occupy. It is an actionable statement that marks our collective movement towards decolonization and equity. The Anchorage Assembly would like to acknowledge that we gather today on the traditional lands of the Dena'ina Athabascans.

For thousands of years, the Dena'ina have been and continue to be the stewards of this land. It is with gratefulness and respect that we recognize the contributions, innovations, and contemporary perspectives of the Upper Cook Inlet Dena'ina. Thank you very much, Ms. Sobers. Next we have minutes of previous meetings.

We have a handful tonight. We have item 4A, special meeting, October 3rd, 2025. Item 4B, regular meeting, October 7th, 2025. Item 4C, special meeting, October 17th, 2025. We have item 4D, regular meeting, October 21st, 2025.

I'd like to ask for a motion to approve. So moved. Second. Moved by Miss Brawley, second by Mr. Vond. Any discussion?

Hearing and seeing no discussion, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the motion?

Seeing and hearing no objection, items 4A through D have been approved. Next we have the mayor's report. Madam Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good evening everyone.

I hope you all had a fun and safe Halloween weekend. I am happy to report that the only ghosts we'll be dealing with tonight are the ghosts of budgets past. Tonight is the second public hearing on the proposed municipal budget for 2026. Thank you to the community members who've given feedback, made suggestions, asked questions, and engaged in the budget process so far. If the municipality doesn't find new revenue soon, our community will be faced with tough choices in the coming years.

About the services and infrastructure we can and can't fund. As assembly members are aware, my team and I are drafting a 3% sales tax proposal which we intend to introduce on the November 18 agenda. This tax proposal is designed to stabilize the municipality's finances and diversify our revenue, lower property taxes, strengthen public safety and infrastructure, and invest in housing and child care to make this a more affordable and attractive place to live. We are actively engaging with the community and taking feedback, and I look forward to robust conversations with the assembly in the coming weeks. In light of the continuing federal government shutdown, my team is closely tracking the news about potential delays and reductions to federal food assistance benefits.

We know changes to food benefits could have a big impact on many families in our community. Thank you to the governor for declaring a state disaster emergency to enable food aid for Alaskans.

Another impact of the federal government shutdown is that we are also facing an impending funding shortfall for the WIC, Women, Infants, and Children program. Our most vulnerable are even more vulnerable right now. I've directed my team to find a way to keep the program whole here in Anchorage. Additionally, we've instituted free PeopleMover and AnchorRides for local federal employees and military families going without pay, and we directed our utilities to offer flexibility and assistance to impacted residents. Thank you to Member Gerker and to Chair Constant for your partnership on this initiative.

Chair Constantine and I recently returned from a visit with Anchorage's sister city in Chitose, Japan. The Sister Cities program was founded in 1956 to promote trade and cultural understanding through citizen diplomacy at the local level. It was an honor to visit Japan and to build relationships and market Anchorage's role as an international hub for tourism, seafood, shipping, cargo, travel, and more. Some members of our municipal delegation also traveled to South Korea where Chief Administrative Officer Bill Falzie signed a letter of intent with the city of Busan to prioritize cooperation around tourism, maritime ports and logistics, and people-to-people exchanges. A quick, quick update about storm evacuee sheltering in Anchorage.

As of Friday, the state had moved all evacuees out of the Egan Center and Alaska Airlines Center and into non-congregate shelter options. More than 100 families and a total of about 483 people are now staying in hotel rooms and apartments. Nearly 170 children have been registered for school in the Anchorage School District. Resources for evacuees and ways for community members to help can be found at muni.org/ykhelp.

Our Emergency Operations Center team is preparing a more in-depth update for the upcoming Public Safety and Health Committee meeting on Wednesday. Lastly, next Tuesday is Veterans Day, and I want to express gratitude to all veterans past and present who have served our country. We honor your service and your sacrifice. So now let's get down to business. I'm looking forward to an efficient and productive meeting tonight with all of you.

Back to you, Mr. Chair. Thank Thank you, Madam Mayor, and I will say we will probably also be visited by the ghosts of budgets present and future tonight.

So good evening, everybody, and welcome to our regular business meeting. I'll start by just celebrating the fact that Anchorage was able to be part of an almost miraculous response to the crisis in western Alaska. The way that our residents came together to support the individuals and to find housing for all of them who came is just a marvel when you think about it. And about 700 people have relocated from the YK to Anchorage, and it's expected they will be here for a year or longer as communities are rebuilt and people relocate. We continue to welcome them in our community and thank everybody who works so hard to make their stay as comfortable as possible.

And it's great to see that the youth have already been enrolled in Anchorage School District and have received a warm welcome to our schools.

On the note of our trip, the mayor and I, to our sister cities in Korea and Japan, I would offer— I was sad that the mayor did not get to attend the Korea part of the trip, but she was here responding to the emergency, and so it just was not feasible for her to go to this event that was planned for almost the last year. I went to Korea for the first time on this trip trip, and I was absolutely marveled by their port infrastructure. We were able to tour the port of Incheon and see where our number one trading partner, Alaska's number one trading partner in Korea, uh, transfers seafood and ore and metal from Alaska into the global energy economy. And it's worth noting that the Governor's Gas Line proposal that appears to be making progress at this time, will likely see a steel supply coming to Anchorage through the Port of Busan. So it was really great to meet with the individuals who are part of that conversation and see firsthand the extraordinary activity, economic activity, that's happening over there, and to explore the possibility of a friendship city with the city of Busan.

Next, this week, the end of this week, on Friday, we will be celebrating formally the 50th 50th anniversary of the municipality. As you know, as you likely know by now, this marks the 50th anniversary. Not only is this time of celebration, it's an opportunity to imagine what we will become for our next 50 years. What does the future hold for Alaska? Our best days are still ahead, they're not behind us.

This Friday, November 7th, from 6 to 9 PM at the Anchorage Museum, that's First Friday, we'll be turning the focus to our future. The free admission event features a civics fair with municipal departments and local organizations where you can learn more about what's going on in your community and how to get involved. Also, an Anchorage history lecture by David Reamer and Dena'ina Xl��nena exhibition opening remarks by Aaron Leggett, municipal senior curator and president of the Native Village of Eklutna. Also, we'll have recognition of former mayors, assembly members, and school board members as part of the event. We have more information at muni.org/50.

That's muni.org/50, where you can also read about the histories of local groups and municipal departments and find activities for the whole family. As you learn more about our history, you'll see that it, it only takes one person to make a difference. Imagine what we can become when we all join together. My hope is this celebration of our past sparks inspiration and new conversations about our future.

Tonight is the second public hearing on our budget. For those of you who are here to testify, we anticipate testimony will be held after the dinner break. The budget items are 14A through 14G on the agenda. There have already been a number of work sessions on the budget that have been highly informative.

You can find the record of those meetings at muni.org/watchnow. This Friday at 10 AM at City Hall and that time may change a little bit. It might be 11 AM. The assembly will have a work session to go over proposed budget amendments. The public is welcome to watch that work session both in person or online.

I encourage you to learn more and get engaged in the budget by visiting the assembly's budget and taxes page at muni.org/assembly. And finally, as many people have been talking, there are a number of new tax reform proposals introduced that are circulating at least one, and at least one more on the way. The 3 current tax proposals submitted by assembly members will be before us on November 18th agenda, and the information on each proposal is available at assembly tax reform page on the assembly's website, muni.org/assembly. And people are patiently and excitedly waiting to see the proposal from the mayor published. Finally, this is a business meeting.

We're here to do the work of the city. Please help to create a climate of respect and refrain from personal attacks or speaking out of turn. Shouting and clapping and pacing, except of course when clapping is in order. Keep signs to 8.5 by 11 inches or smaller. Please keep the aisles clear except when lined up to testify.

Please don't approach the dais, but if you have information to share with members, please hand it to the clerk down below. Please stop speaking if a point of order is called so the chair may rule on the point of order and the record is clear. If rules aren't followed, the chair may interrupt speakers to call for compliance. If compliance with the rules doesn't occur, the chair may pause the meeting, and if there's an actual disruption disruption, the chair will give a warning. If the disruption persists or happens again, the person will be asked to leave.

Otherwise, we're here for another good night of the Muni Assembly's business. And with that, we'll move on to committee and liaison reports. Start with you, Mr. Myers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Nothing to report, but if Friday is going to be moving, I have a 1 o'clock in Eagle River, so I hope the 10 AM stands and I can leave at 12:30 as planned. Okay, okay, well, we can talk about that afterwards. Thanks. Um, Mr. McCormick. Nothing to report, Chair.

Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Martinez. Nothing to report, Chair. Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Baldwin-Day. No report, Chair. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. The next meeting of the Assembly's Infrastructure Enterprise Utility Oversight Committee will be on November 20th at 11:15 at City Hall. And for the Legislative Committee, our next regular meeting will be on November 19th at 12:40 PM, also at City Hall. And then also there will be a work session to go over the proposed legislative program and potential edits on November 18th.

November 16th at 10:40, also at City Hall. That is all, Chair. All right, thank you. Ms. Brawley. Thank you.

Just a very brief report. The Budget and Finance Committee will not be meeting in November. We've canceled that meeting. Um, normally it would be on Thursday, November 20th. Um, we— Mr.

Chair has already spoken about the work session on Friday. Um, so anyone who's watching, um, and interested in potential budget amendments, I would encourage encourage tuning into that either live or as a recording. It's on our YouTube channel with everything else. So we will see what amendments members are going to bring forward. Thanks.

Thank you, Vice Chair Brawley. Mr. Volland. No updates, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Volland.

Ms. Silvers. No updates, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Silvers. Mr. Rivera. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. Two items. Last week there was a Municipal Audit Committee meeting. We talked through the final outstanding item of the 2023 audit, which is the single audit. We also talked to the plan for the 2024 audit cycle.

I'm not going to give folks projected timelines as those will likely shift, but I will say that there is a clear intent and goal to finally get us back on track to a normal, quote unquote, audit cycle, which really varies year to year, but Usually means we are done with all of our audits between March and June for the prior fiscal year. So it would be great to have us on track to do that instead of a year and a half or two years behind. Also, if you haven't already, I want to encourage folks, assembly members and members of the administration, to register for the AML annual conference in December in Anchorage. You can attend all or just parts of the conference. But I will say that I think this is going to turn out to be one that you don't want to miss.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Grover. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing to report.

Thank you. Mr. President Dale. Thank you, Mr. Chair. No report tonight.

Youth member Bowser. Thank you. No report. All right, I'm going to take the opportunity now to invite our youth who are here for their government and civics class to come forward and introduce themselves. Please come forward.

So a strong tradition of the assembly. Please just tell us your name, what part of town you're from, and what class you're here for.

Hello, I'm Wyatt Hanselpacker, and I'm a student at Lumen Christi High School, Anchorage. And I think it's cool what you guys are doing here as you're impacting our daily lives, and I just want to say keep up the good work. Thank you. My name is Stone Grosskreutz. I go to Lumen Christi Catholic High School.

This is for a government class. Thanks.

Uh, I'm Gage Senna. I also go to Lumen Christi. Um, we're all part of the same class, so I look forward to hear what you guys have to say. All right, who's your teacher? Uh, my teacher is Miss Hazlett.

The same with everybody else. Well, thank you to her for getting you to come to see your government in action. All right, thank you. All right, next we have the addendum to the agenda.

Just a couple of items. I think, um, one will require a supermajority vote. We'll start with the supplemental items. 10F6, information memorandum number 2025. Administration Answers to Assemblymember Questions.

And then Item 14L2, Information Memorandum Unnumbered 2025, Answers to Assembly Questions Regarding AO 2025-121 and AM 775-2025. The next one is Item 10A2, and this one is a new item, so it will require a vote of the body to lay it on the table. Resolution AR 2025 Unnumbered, a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly recognizing November 11th, November 11, 2025, as Veterans Day, celebrating all U.S. veterans and honoring Alaska veterans for their service to our country. This, we just somehow missed getting it on the addendum or the regular agenda. So I'm going to ask members to support laying it on the table.

Is there a motion to lay on the table? So moved. Second. Motion by Mr. Wallin, seconded by Mr. Johnson. Any discussion?

Seeing and hearing none, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the adoption of the motion? I'm seeing and hearing no objection, therefore that item is now laid on the table. Will be 10A2. So that concludes the laid on the table— the addendum procedure.

Except now I'd like to ask for a motion to incorporate the addendum and the laid on the table items. So moved. Second. Motion to incorporate by Mr. Boren, second by Miss Brawley.

Any discussion? I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Any objection to the motion? Seeing here no objection, the addendum to the agenda laid on the table items has been incorporated, which brings us now to item 9A, appearance requests. Mr. Rinkert, Rinkert Skates.

Welcome.

Good evening, my name is Jim Rinkert. I'm here with Peter Hoisler. Um, we represent Anchorage Skates and the Midtown Park Community, um, Midtown Park Chalet Committee. The Alaska Speed Skating Club members wanted to be here this evening, but they had to move their monthly meeting to tonight. I want to say thank you to the chair and the assembly and the mayor.

Is anyone from Parks and Rec here? Parks and Rec Department? Okay, please, would you please come forward? We have something for you. And, uh, Madam Mayor, would you come forward too, please, so we can present our annual check to the municipality for the money we raised to help pay for the ice at the skating oval in Cutty Park?

Uh, we've done this now, I think, for 15 years, and the total we've now given is $150,000. We hope you will be able to continue that. We also wanted to say congratulations on the passage of the park bond last spring. That included some money for the skating— the chalet that we hope to eventually build. So Parks and Rec— oops, what happened to the check?

There it is, right there. There's the check, and here's a letter. It should have been addressed to you. Nice to meet you. So, and that's all we have.

All right, thank you. Next we have Mr. Charles McKee. Oh wait, I'm sorry, Mr. McKee, hold on just one minute. Jim, Jim, Mr. Enker, Mr. Enker was in the queue first. I was in the queue, um, mostly because I want to say thank you for your ongoing contributions.

I think it's really important, um, when we have, um, individuals or groups make contributions like that to to say thank you. Um, I also just want to acknowledge your role in helping bring the sport of Nordic skating and wild ice skating to Alaska. Some may not know that. As a co-founder myself of the Wild Ice Skating Club of Alaska, we really look up to the speed skating club and the work that you do. So again, a heartfelt thank you.

And I understand Paxson Woebler with Ermin Skates and the Wild Ice Skating Club are starting to work more closely with the speed skating club, so Yes. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Now, Mr. McKee, welcome.

Good evening. My name is Charles McKee, for the record, and, uh, I'm here to represent the beneficiary of the McKee Trust. And if you so choose to remember the name of the spelling, it's Mother of Christ is a key And I abide with the Lord Jesus Christ. And Veritas, I, uh, you're concerned with the budget of the city as well as the state. I had recorded, based on a commercial matter of disparity and sovereignty, my secured contract has been put up.

That's $900 billion when I recorded my name in the Reparation Act of 1789. And so that's a promise from that Act of 1789. That year allowed a credit on fictional— I mean, uh, functional currency for that premise. And And basically what they do is they do a double entry because my name is split. The capitalized name of McKee is the business portion, and then the man is a lowercase.

They did this a while back. And so I don't mean to attend to— but what they do, it's called operations modus operandi. It's business as usual. They just don't include the general public into this. They assume it's too obtuse for them to understand.

That being said, the healthcare— my concerns of the utility, and I view our society as recognizing women as, as a utility much more than should, because, uh, God created Eve for so we could have an opportunity to worship Jehovah, Jah, and the true origin of uni, which is Jesus Christ, and Yupik Uni Korn. And so I made this presentation for that cause. And when I found out that there was an issue with Alaska Regulatory Commission, I testified that there was a taking of my property rights via GCI when I was before this assembly in 2019— in 2092, excuse me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. McKee.

All right, that concludes our appearance requests. Next, we'll have the consent agenda. We'll go ahead down the dais and pull items for those who have items to pull. We'll start with you, Mr. Presverdia. Thank you, Chair.

No items tonight. Thank you, Mr. Kirker. 10 Alpha 2 for reading, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Kirker. And that's 10A2.

Mr. Rivera. Uh, 10E1.

10E1. Mr. Rivera. Um, Miss Zoras. No items. Thank you, Mr. Roland.

No items. Thank you, Miss Brawley. My item was pulled. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Mr. Wilson? No items, Mr. Chair. On the phone, Ms. Baldwin-Day?

Yes, Chair, 10 Delta 17. I heard you're a little muffled, but that's 10D17? Correct. All right, and thank you. Mr. Martinez?

No items, thank you. All right, Mr. McCormick? Was 10 Delta 3 pulled? D3. Thank you, Mr. McCormick.

Mr. Myers? No additional items. Thanks, Chair. All right, who has 10A1?

I was presenting. Erin Baldwin-Day was going to read. Okay, Erin, we're going to pick someone else to read because it's a little muffled, so we'll have Miss Brawley read it. Thank you. So we'll go through the list.

10A1, Miss Spraulley. 10A2, Miss Gerker. 10D3, Mr. McCormick. 10D17, Miss Baldwin-Day. 10E1, Mr. Rivera.

Did I miss anything?

Seems like I got everything. Okay, then I go ahead and like to ask for a motion to approve the consent agenda minus the pulled items. So moved. Second. Moved by Miss Spraulley, second by Mr. Lund.

I— okay, Mr. Myers moves, Mr. Bohlen seconds. Um, any discussion? Seeing and hearing—. Mr. Chair, just point of information, was it B3 or D3 that was pulled?

Mr. McCormick, was it B or D? I thought you said Delta. Delta. Yeah, it was D3. So, um, okay, now any further discussion?

Seeing and hearing none, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the adoption of the motion to approve the consent agenda minus the pulled items? I'm seeing and hearing no objections. So for the public's interest, every single item on the agenda except for the items that were pulled are now approved. So if you're here to see action on anything from 10A to 10F, you didn't hear a member pull, your item has been approved unanimously.

So next we have item 10A.1. 10A.1 is Resolution R2025-328, a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly celebrating the League of Women Voters of Anchorage on its 75th anniversary. This item was pulled by Miss Barley. Move to approve. Moved by Miss Barley.

Second. Second by Miss Silvers. Any discussion? Seeing, hearing none, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Any objection to the motion?

Seeing, hearing no objection, that item has been approved. Who is reading? Miss Brawley, you're reading, and Miss Silver is presenting. Come on forward, go ahead. A resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly celebrating the League of Women Voters, LVW, of Anchorage on its 75th 50th anniversary, whereas the LVW of Anchorage, one of more than 700 leagues in all 50 states, is an all-volunteer organization dedicated to empowering voters and demanding— defending democracy.

And whereas the league is nonpartisan and committed to open, responsive, and effective government, encouraging informed political participation. And whereas the LVW of Anchorage was organized in 1950 by Evangeline Atwood. The league provided services to voters and tackled important issues of the day, through thoughtful studies that had great influence on public policy. And whereas the League advocated for the merger of the city and the borough to become the Municipality of Anchorage with an open and responsive government, community councils, and boards and commissions. And whereas in 1958, the Anchorage Independent School District noticed voting irregularities in a tax election and asked the League to investigate.

The League uncovered 110 instances of suspect voters and forwarded its findings to the school district. And whereas with encouragement from the National LV— LWV, the Anchorage League studied issues beyond voting such as land use planning, healthcare, and education, and whereas throughout its 75 years, League volunteers have contributed thousands of hours to provide voters with credible, unbiased information about local elections, and whereas since the early 2000s, the League has sponsored Anchorage Youth Vote, which engages high school students in civic activities such as elections, candidate forums, and training on anti-bullying. And whereas, for the approximately past 20 years, the League has worked with Municipal Elections to publish and distribute the ballot review, which many voters rely on to learn about elections. Now, therefore, the Anchorage Assembly celebrates the League of Women Voters of Anchorage on its 75th anniversary. Passed and approved by the Anchorage Assembly this 4th day of October, 2025.

On behalf of the league, uh, thank you very much.

And that was Miss Patty Ginsburg. Anyone else? All right, thank you everybody. Mr. Voland.

This is Pat Redmond, and I have been in the Anchorage League since 1972, and I have harassed most of you, and I want you to know I'm going home now. However, I will be watching you tonight. Thank you and have a good evening. Best of luck. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. I actually do have a question for Ms. Ginsburg.

Over here. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. First of all, I just want to voice my appreciation for the work that your organization does. To promote awareness about elections and to help Anchorage residents be part of the process of government and democracy in Anchorage.

I did receive a letter, as we all did, from yourself on letterhead from the League of Women Voters recently on a matter that may be coming before the assembly soon. Namely the Transit Supportive Development Overlay, um, and it raised some questions for me. And so I just, on the record, wanted to state that I would be curious to know more about the demographics of your membership. I'd be interested in knowing about a breakdown in terms of age, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or average annual earnings. I would also be curious to know how many of your members are renters versus homeowners.

Is that something your organization could provide some detail on for the Anchorage Assembly?

Through the chair, we don't have that information on our membership. It would take a lot to compile it. Point of information, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gerker.

This isn't really about this resolution, is this? This is kind of a separate issue. What I think you would probably rather want to make a point of order, point of order, but I think that your point is made, and so maybe Mr. Wallin can kind of figure out how to respond. Yeah, I'll say that the letter sparked the curiosity, but the resolution is the matter before us tonight. And I would just like to know more about your organization and who's involved in it and what the demographics look like.

So, Patty, Ms. Ginsburg, I will offer that I think sometime in the not too distant future we can have a conversation about that. Okay, sure. I think it's, it's great information, and I'll be in touch with some questions and thoughts. Okay. And also, we'll be happy to talk to, um, uh, any of you, um, uh, with your reaction to our letter.

We'll be happy to talk about it. As I said in the letter, I'd be happy to talk about it. Yep. So, uh, to Mr. Gerker's point, I think we'll take that up when the opportunity arises to be thoughtful on that question. But tonight, I think if not all of us, most of us can celebrate 75 years of the League of Women Voters' participation in making sure the public is able to understand our elections as they go out.

Indeed. And, um, Mr. Chair, may I say something about the process that we've gone through in getting ready for this? For the discussion tonight or the letter? Oh, not about the— Okay, great.

Anything about this resolution? You have the floor, ma'am. No, this is about the resolution.

I had started to research some of the history, and then we fortunately got a grant from the Atwood Foundation. Foundation to help us get some professional help in compiling— finishing the work to compile the history. And what we have is a booklet that's ready to go to print. And it was really fascinating to learn the history of the league in Anchorage. And I hope that you all get a chance to read that booklet and learn about what a force the league has been, especially in the first decades.

So that's all I wanted to say. Thank you very much. And I would agree, your website is quite informative. There's lots of documents there for people to kind of wrap their heads around. So thank you very much.

Okay, thanks. And thanks for your service on our elections. Miss Brawley. Yeah, I just wanted to say, um, thank you also for being here. Um, to Miss Redmond, I know, uh, we have corresponded regularly during these meetings, so thank you for watching.

And thanks for all your work to everybody. And also, um, I know myself and Ms. Baldwin-Day and Ms. Silvers and the mayor were very happy to bring this forward. I know we had been emailing about this for a few months, so I'm glad that you, um, brought this to us to celebrate this anniversary. And I, I believe it's a public event, but just to say, uh, on Saturday the 15th, there's a celebration for the league, um, at O'Malley on the Green down on the South Side, um, I believe 5 to 7 11 PM. So folks are interested, I believe you can get tickets.

So we will be celebrating with you there. Thanks. Thank you, everybody. Next up, we have the late on the table resolution, which is item 10A2, resolution unnumbered, a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly recognizing November 11, 2025 as Veterans Day, celebrating all US veterans and honoring to ask veterans for their service to our country. This item was pulled by Mr. Gerker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Move to approve. Second. Moved by Mr. Gerker, seconded by Mr. Johnson.

I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection?

I'm seeing here no objection. Consider that item is passed unanimously. Um, who is reading? I'm reading. Mr. Gerker, you have the floor.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly recognizing November November 11th, 2025 as Veterans Day, celebrating all U.S. veterans and honoring Alaskan veterans for their service to our country. Whereas Armistice Day began in 1918 as a day to reflect upon the heroism of those who died in our country's service and later became known as Veterans Day to honor all veterans in all wars. And whereas today the U.S. continues to celebrate November 11th as Veterans Day to honor persons in military service and their families for their willingness readiness to serve and sacrifice for the common good.

And whereas Alaska's military history includes the Alaska Nike Hercules anti-aircraft missile systems during the Cold War, the Aleutian Islands campaign, and the Aleutian Tigers, and the Alaska Territorial Guard during World War II, with today's service members actively involved in monitoring and protecting the Northwest of the United States. And whereas Alaska is one of the military's most desirable duty stations, with many new recruits choosing to serve here as their first duty station. And whereas, an estimated 1 in 10 Alaska residents has served in the armed forces, and Anchorage is home to J-Bear, the largest U.S. military installation in Alaska, which is home to 32,000 service members, their families, and civilian personnel. Whereas, in Anchorage, there is a ceremony on J-Bear on November 11th to celebrate by visit— or, or celebrate by visiting the Anchorage Veterans Museum. And now, therefore, the Anchorage Assembly recognizes November 11th, 2025, as Veterans Day and celebrates and honors all U.S. military veterans for their service to our community, state, and nation.

Passed and approved by the Anchorage Assembly this day, this 4th day of November, 2025.

Welcome, Mr. Dahl. Through the chair, with 1 in 10 Alaskans being veterans, I'd ask that any veterans also in the room, they're invited to stand also for recognition.

On behalf of Anchorage veterans, we thank you for your support. For the last 108 years, Americans have taken a day on November 11th to recognize those who have served in uniform. Now Anchorage does that, they do an outstanding job of it, but they do it each and every other day too, and for that we also thank you for your support. I first saw that in the military service while in Afghanistan, where probably the most valuable thing we got were the care packages sent by Anchorage businesses. Ice cream from Anchorage when it's 130 degrees out is worth more than platinum.

Saw that afterwards. We have the most veteran-friendly employers. And even coming in today, 4 teenage girls thanked me for my military service. And in short, Anchorage is a veteran-friendly town. It aligns with values.

That's why veterans keep coming here. That's why why we have the highest number of vets per capita in this state. Thank you again for your support, each and every one of you. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, would you add me as a co-sponsor, please? Please, Madam Mayor. I would like to also just note at least two famous Alaskan women, since we have the League of Women Voters here standing up for our elections. Mary Louise Rasmussen was really an extraordinary Alaskan woman who served in the Women's Air Corps in World War II and actually became its leader.

And also Laura Belle Belz Hagberg Wright, who was an Inupiaq woman from Candle, Alaska, born in 1909, who was the first woman in the Alaska Territorial Guard who defended our state. And of course, to everybody serving now in these challenging times, our respect to you. Thank you. All right, next up we have item 10D3. 10D3, exam 804-2025, amendment number 2, Securitas Security Services USA Inc., Securitas, to provide transit security services to the municipality.

Mr. McCormick, you pulled this item. Move to approve. Moved by Mr. McCormick. Second. Second, Mr. Brawley.

Mr. McCormick. Yeah, I was wondering if there was someone, uh, here that could, could speak on what the contract is providing us for the month of November?

Director Bart Rudolph is going to come down and answer those questions.

Welcome. Uh, Bart Rudolph, Director of Public Transit, uh, through the chair. Um, [Speaker] It is for 3 months of additional guards that we had an amendment earlier this year. So it's just truing up the rest of the contract through the end of November. [Speaker] Okay, and how many guards does that provide and where are they stationed?

[Speaker] We added 2 guards in the middle of the year and they are on the bus. They're the guards that actually ride randomly on the bus.

Okay, so similar to what we passed last meeting for the $2 million, same 2 unarmed guards riding random buses, 2 unarmed guards in a vehicle ready to respond. Correct. Um, I guess I'm a little confused. When I read the, uh, the AM here, I see the contract, an additional $371,000 contract capacity for the period ending in November 30th, is— so this contract would extend beyond that? No.

Yeah, this contract ends November 30th, and the one you approved at the last meeting starts December 1st.

So then the $371,000 is just for November then? No, it's for—. It's for back pay too. It's including— for previous 2 months plus November. Okay, so 3 months for the 4 unarmed guards for $371,000?

Correct. Okay, thank you.

Anyone else? Mr. Johnson. Yeah, thanks. I, I, um, appreciate that clarification. It does raise another question in my mind.

So this is a contract we're being asked to approve for for expenses that have already been incurred by the muni, and that feels a little regular to me. I mean, wouldn't that put us in a very precarious position if we were not to approve this? And effectively, we've, we've already essentially utilized this. Now we're being told this after the fact that we need to provide the funding for it. That, that feels, uh, disconcerting, and it feels like it puts us in a kind of precarious position where we're essentially being told it sounds like we can't vote no on this.

For risk of legal action. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that specifically. I don't know if the amendment came through earlier.

I'm wondering if perhaps anyone from legal might be able to help me out here, because this feels a little irregular to me.

Through the chair, could you repeat the question please? Sorry, we were dealing with some technical issues over here. So, Mr. Johnson, if I might quickly— the two of us conferred, and we hate to put you on the spot, Becky, but we think this is a question best answered by the manager. Rather than the attorneys?

I hate to put you on the spot, Becky.

I appreciate that. To the chair, it's a good question, and I think that this is a— and I think ideally we probably would have come earlier with this. I think the reality is that we would have to find— you're right that our solutions that we would have to find absent approval from this body at this point would be challenging. We certainly— obviously, this body always has the option to approve or deny any amendment that's placed before you. So I think we would figure out a solution, but Mr. Rudolph is correct that at this point, we, um, it would be— it wouldn't— it wouldn't be a simple solution because some of these services have been utilized already.

So we would resolve that in some other way if we were unable to seek this approval tonight. I'll just say for my part, it's my I intend to support this. You know, I certainly value our public safety workers or our public transit workers feeling safe doing their job. But I guess I'll just put down a marker to say I don't really like being put in this position. So I hope in the future we might see these things in advance of incurring the expense.

Ms. Brawley. Yeah, just a follow-up to a question Mr. McCormick asked. Um, you mentioned 2 individuals, or I guess 4 individuals. Um, can you clarify, is this contract for only those 4 individuals, or is it for providing staffing with shifts? I imagine there's a shift function.

So is it— what is the actual performance that they're providing? Um, it's for guards for 2 shifts because they are there the entire time of our service, so 6 AM to midnight. So it's for 2 guards for all of those hours. So really we're paying for, um, most of a 24-hour period, so multiple people working throughout that period? Correct.

Okay, thanks. Just making sure we're doing the math on the people.

Myers. I had a similar question to Member Brawley, but wanted to find out why we didn't get this earlier from the municipal manager. We can get that answered. And then is this not something APD could do?

Through the Chair to Member Myers. And to the APD question, I mean, certainly we— if we had infinite police officers, we would possibly not need private security anywhere in the community. The challenge always comes down to price and availability. It actually is more to— for this kind of private security needs that travels with a municipal service, it is both more economical and generally has been deemed to be a more appropriate use to use private security as opposed to having police officers in these roles. To the why did we not get it until tonight, um, I honestly don't have all of the details in front of me right now, so if we need to not approve it right now, or we could postpone it to later in the agenda, I could come back with a comprehensive rerun of the events after consulting with purchasing.

Are these individuals on the, on the public transit armed? No. So then what really function are they providing Um, they can detain people and they can help escort people off the bus. Um, so just last week they responded to over 100 incidences, um, in which we didn't have to call APD for, that they were able to resolve themselves. And it's anywhere from people passing out on the bus to people not getting off the bus to attacking the bus itself to loitering at the bus stop.

It's small little things like that. So they were able to resolve over 100 incidents just last week alone. Does anybody keep track of who these individuals are and red flag them from riding public transit? Yeah, we ban riders. We have a policy through code on which we can ban riders, and we do that.

Okay. Are there charges pressed against these individuals that are wreaking havoc on public transit? If they assault one of the security guards or a transit worker, or if they cause damage to the bus or another passenger, yes. Uh, for people passing out, things like that, loitering, no, no, no charges. Okay, thank you.

If I might, we have like a full policy on that, don't we? I'm sorry, we have a full policy that was developed around all of that through the code and through yours. Maybe it might be a good time to send that around when you get a chance, just to share with all members so they can see the work that's been done on the topic. Mr. McCormick? Yeah, I guess I'd I don't have any further questions for you.

Thank you though. But I'd like to go back to, yeah, the math. Okay, so close to $400,000 for 3 months for 8 positions. Then if we're going to say they work in shifts, so $15,000 a month per position seems incredibly steep. $15,000 A month.

I get that there's pay, benefits, supervising, staffing costs, but it seems like this is not an adequate use of our money, especially if we're talking about 2 unarmed guards sitting in a vehicle waiting to respond. That sounds like APD, like that is their job, and they can show up and not just detain and wait, they can show up and actually have arrest power. I think utilizing this money to hire a police officer, even if they, they're stationed there, a transit police officer that has some value. Um, I don't, I don't see this providing us the, the value we're looking for, so I'll be a no.

Thank you. Mr. Constant. Yeah, thanks. Um, I would just offer two things that I think it's a little bit more than 9.

It's 7 days times 3, right? 3 Shifts per day, essentially, so it's 21. I think that's my math. Um, but practically speaking, what we've ended up having to do, because we can't afford to have as many police officers as we really need as a city— if you look at our city and its police force, we're very, very low, on the low end of the average city of our size, the number of individuals who are sworn officers. We can't afford it because of the tax cap.

And so what we have ended up doing, in much the same way as we do with our fire department, is We utilize, like, for the fire department, the sleep-off services, Anchorage Safety Patrol, our community service that takes up the lower-end response. And now with APD, what we've done is we've implemented a community service officer program, which is slowly increasing, which is kind of that interim between— like ASP is for the fire department, community service officers are for the police department. But as we build those services and figure out how to afford them them, because none of this happens for free, we have to have interim solutions. And what the body has determined is an interim solution as we move towards a more full and robust set of community service officers and other interim responses is security. We have security in our bus depots, on our buses.

We have security at City Hall. We have security here at this meeting because we can't afford— the taxpayers cannot afford afford, as it might be suggested we could here, to have police officers at every curb and every corner and in every meeting and every hall to tackle the public safety needs of our city. So it's a collective effort, in my opinion, at multiple layers. But if, if we want to fund a robust increase in police and fire services, I'm all for it. We just got to figure out how to pay for it.

Mr. Gerker. Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the administration, I think I just heard it said that we don't have more police officers because of the tax cap. Can you tell me how many vacant police officer positions we have?

It's a current number that I don't know off the top of my head, but I can confirm that before the end of the meeting if you'd like to know the exact number of vacancies. Um, I have a number that I think is a couple of months old that I can dig up. Yeah, I mean, just an older number is fine. I mean, I think that the general point here is that there, there's, there's vacancies, there's room. It's not that we— it's not, it's not a tax cap problem, it's a people aren't applying for the positions, we're not recruiting them fast enough problem.

Is that, is that accurate? I don't think that's accurate, honestly. The number, looking at the last— I walked through these numbers with the chief and the deputy chief, um, within the last few weeks, and what we walked through was the number. We have a full academy that has had a few members of TRT out of it but will be completing their, their process in November. We a second full academy that's going to follow upon that, and then we're down to the challenge of dealing with standard attrition that results in retirement.

So we're coming at it from a deficit for sure, and we're dealing with a period of enhanced retirements. But after these next two academies— again, we have two full academies, so we are now attracting people to come to the positions, um, but we're digging ourselves out of what had been a vacancy hole, um, and so we are We're— well, we're not quite there yet because of, again, ongoing retirements and the fact that we come from a position where we had vacancies. We are now making considerable progress toward getting to the place where we're back at standard, where we'll always have vacancies because we will always have people who retire or who depart from the police department whose positions are not immediately filled. Because as you know, we hire out of academies, so we don't immediately just find a new officer and immediately fill the position. If you'll give me a moment, I can dig back to what my most recent number is.

But again, the— what I— the— what— so process-wise, big picture, what we're dealing with is we're dealing with a full academy coming out, another one following, and then getting to the point where we're starting to be tracking to just refilling and backfilling for retirements. Okay. Yeah, no, thank you. And while you're looking for that, I guess I'll just comment that, you know, that's awesome that we've got two full academies coming up. I think that does show just how deep of a hole APD has, has been in for a number of years.

Years. There's probably a number of reasons for that. I won't speculate from the dais, but I, I just want it to be noted that because we're filling two full academies and we still have vacancies, it sounds like this is not a tax cap problem for why we don't have cops everywhere. If I might, I have dug up the number through the chair, Member Gruker. As of the— at the end of September, we had 44 sworn vacancies plus 41 officers who were in training and 43 non- 41 sworn vacancies.

That means that we have 41 officers that are in training positions, and then over and above that, we had 44 vacancies we're working to fill. The next academy again will go a considerable way toward filling that gap, and again, then we'll get closer to the point of backfilling for attrition as it occurs. Okay, so not a revenue problem? I think the challenge, as, um, if I might, through the chair to Member Gerker, as Chair Compston pointed We have considerably more than 44 secure security officers working for the municipality in a variety of different contexts at any given time. We have security in the library, we have security at the port, we have security here at assembly meetings, we have security at City Hall, we have security at working for ACDA, we have security at the Transit Center, we have have had security at the Egan Center.

So we have a very— it's not simply this slice, which if we had a few more police officers I think we could fill. I think the challenge is considerably broader. Again, to the question, the proposition of should all private security needs of the municipality be addressed by APD officers rather than through contract security, um, it's not— it's, it's a considerable number of positions and places where we utilize private contract security because it is more cost-efficient for the municipality and it is— the needs are relatively extensive. They're not simply at transit, they're at a variety of different places, again, even including here tonight. Thank you, and I appreciate that.

And I just want to note that the proposition should all security be done, you know, should we buy cops instead of by private security, that wasn't what I was asking. My What I was asking was, it was stated that we have to have all of these because of the tax cap problem, and it doesn't seem like that's actually the problem. The problem is that there's natural vacancies. We've had significant vacancies at APD for a while. They're backfilling them.

It's getting better, but there's always going to be vacancies, and it's not a revenue problem for why we don't have a completely full police force. I think that— I think, through the chair to Member Gerker, I think that the flavor of my answer was because is I think we could certainly have more police officers with our current budget. Absolutely, yes. Could we have enough police officers to fulfill all of our private security needs under the existing budget? No.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have myself back in the queue. Mr.

Constant. So according to the FBI and the Bureau of Justice Statistics, in the United States, generally speaking, for a city from 300,000 to 500,000 people, there's 2.3 to 2.8 officers per 100,000 residents, or 2.3 to 2.8 officers per 1,000 residents. So we as a city, with the budget that we have, have settled on about 400 sworn officers. But if we were to meet the average standard for the FBI and the Bureau of Justice Statistics, we would actually have 690 sworn officers. And so the practical reality is we as a city have chosen to operate in an environment, because of tax cap, which is what it is, to not have enough police officers to meet the mission.

And so they run thin, they run hard, they run long, and they run unsupported. That's the reality of our system. Like, if we were just average to what the FBI proposes— and so we do need security in order to meet the gap. That's what I think. If you just look at the statistics, if we were an average city in America, we would have nearly twice as many police officers.

Mr. Kirk. I think you've already had two goes. That was actually my first go. That's okay, Mr. Kirk, you can go again.

I guess I would just say that we could have 800, budget for 800 sworn officer positions, but if we don't actually fill those positions, it doesn't actually make a difference. And I guess that's what I'm saying. When you say we have a tax cap problem, it's not really a tax cap problem because these positions aren't actually filled. So that's all I'm saying. So that's enough debate on this item.

That's fair enough. Thank you all.

Did you want to jump back in, Ms. Swart-Pierce, or are we good?

Through the chair, I think I'm good at this point. Thanks, everybody. That was nice, lively little debate. Um, with that then, if there's nothing else, members may proceed to vote.

Member Baldwande.

Yes. Member Martinez? Yes.

On a vote of 9 to 3, and the youth member votes yes, yes, AM 804-2025 has passed the body. Next we have item 10D17. 10D17 is Assemblymember Anna Mahlum 824-2025 Amendment Number 2 with EAN Holdings DBA Commute with Enterprise to provide an increase to the vanpool subsidy and marketing efforts for the municipality. Ms. Baldwin-Day, you pulled this item Thank you, Chair. Move to approve.

Second.

Okay, we have a motion to approve by Ms. Baldwin-Day, second by Mr. Bull. Ms. Baldwin-Day. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I was hoping to ask a couple of questions, um, of, of the administration. Perhaps if Mr. Rudolph was still in the room, he would be willing to come up and satisfy my curiosity.

Someone's going to have to tell me when he's at the dais. Thank you. Mr. Rudolph, I was wondering if you would share with us a little bit about how the vanpool services are constructed.

What, how the subsidy actually works in practicality and what the utilization is for the vanpool services at this point.

If I understood the question, you wanted to understand how the subsidies worked, and is that correct?

Yes. I'd like to understand how the subsidies work and also what the utilization is right now for the vanpool services.

Sure, through the chair, um, Bart Rudolph, Director. Um, right now we have about 670 participants in the vanpool program, and they utilize about 100 vehicles. So if everyone was driving individually, that would be 667 cars on the Glenn Highway reduced down to 100. So We're probably last month probably in the 90s with vanpools right now. So increasing the subsidy, what we do is through a grant from AMATS, we get CMAQ money and we provide $350 a month to each vanpool.

They pay above and beyond that to Enterprise. We just help reduce the cost to help encourage participation. We're looking to increase that subsidy from $350 to $450 per month. It is CMAQ money. It's, it's not matched locally.

The state pays the match for it, and it's all grant funded.

All right, thank you. That's, that's really helpful. And so these vehicles are not private cars, they're actually, they're actually rental vehicles that are providing this service for residents who live outside of Anchorage primarily? Yes, the participants have a lease with Enterprise, and so the contract is between them and Enterprise and they lease the vehicle. And it's for people primarily— it is people outside of Anchorage, but we do have some people from Eagle River that we're trying to get in vanpools, but primarily it's people that are going to BASE, and then we have a couple of ampoules that go to Girdwood.

Super. All right, thank you so much. That's very helpful. I don't have any further questions. Miss Silvers, what kind of data have you gathered that indicates that increasing the subsidy will increase participation?

Um, we do surveys to the people that leave the program, and the number one reason they leave is the increased cost because they— we partner with Enterprise. It's newer vehicles, so every 2 or 3 years they get a newer vehicle. The cost of that vehicle goes up. And then if you look at similar programs across the country, their subsidies are set at $500 or more, so we're considerably lower than those. Thank you.

Anyone else? Hearing none, members may proceed to vote.

Member Valmonde?

Yes. Member Martinez? Yes.

On a vote of 9 to 3, and the youth member votes yes. Yes. AM 824-2025 has passed the body, which concludes our consent agenda. And we don't have any items in 11. Oh, I'm sorry, 10E1, that item was pulled, and it was pulled by Mr. Rivera.

The intent is to let it die, right? Yeah, so no action is needed. Sorry. Well, I was specific. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. Um, so we can either let it die or move to postpone it indefinitely, whichever is the preference. Thanks. It doesn't require action. If no one moves it, it does— it dies.

So, um, sorry. Thanks, Madam Clerk, for keeping me on task. Um, if that— yeah, we'll take our regularly scheduled dinner break and try to work out a couple bugs and be back shortly to finish the agenda.

I can't seem to get it through that things I do, but on my own time. People waiting, slowly fading. The mirror is telling me I got to grip it right in front of me. Secure the seat and don't release the opportunity. Now I'm colder than the weather, steady going under pressure.

I'm finally over being lowkey under these old covers. Now I'm back and I'm better, steady going under pressure. Sit back and watch the paint dry, take time and watch the dope rise. It's passing I was dancing. How the hell am I still standing?

Keys are rusting. I'm not playing. Maddies are infiltrating. Now I'm colder than the weather.

All right, I think we're about ready to get going.

Miss Paul, you there? Yes, I am, Chair. Oh, you're clear now. Also, Mr. Martinez, you there? Yes, Chair.

Did I hear you say yes?

Yes, Chair. Ah, there you are. Okay, you're a little quieter this time. I think we're all here and ready to get down to it.

So we don't have any items in the 13s or the 14s tonight, which brings us now to the budget items in the 14s. So the first item is 14A, which is the second public hearing for ordinance number AO-2025-106, an ordinance of the Municipality of Anchorage adopting and appropriating funds for the 2026 general government operating budget for the Municipality of Anchorage. The public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item?

Come on down, please. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

The microphone is off. Would you turn the microphone on, Mr. June?

There you go. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Thank you.

My name is Mark June. I'm actually speaking tonight on behalf of HALO, the Hillside Area Landowners Association, and I'm here to speak on behalf of the budget item pertaining to Wildfire Division positions and 83% of the municipality is in the wildfire urban interface area known as the WI and defined as the point where development meets flammable vegetation. Just yesterday, AFD responded to outdoor fires in Mountain View, Muldoon, Spinard, downtown at 4th and Cordova, and downtown at 3rd and Ingra. In other words, the overwhelming majority of Anchorage Anchorage is in a WUI area. We have flammable vegetation, not just on the Anchorage hillside or Eagle River, but along every greenbelt, every setback, every park, and every vacant lot throughout Anchorage.

We have only to look at Los Angeles, Lahaina, and Paradise, California to see the dangers of fire in an urban setting. We think of breakup to greenup as wildfire season, but in today's situation wildfires and arson fires occur all year long. The Community Wildfire Protection Plan is a document that is tied to funding for fuel reduction programs and egress issues. That document's now being finalized and will allow the muni to go after grants to assist in addressing wildfire risks. The need for a wildfire division to find and apply for available monies is vital, and without dedicated staff, those federal funds will go elsewhere.

Where people want them more. For the first time in memory, every branch of government, every utility in Anchorage is working together with the private sector to achieve public safety. AFD's Wildfire Division has done more wildfire education than we've ever seen before. They've been at community councils and neighborhood groups and have done more for public enrichment than I can remember. The Wildfire Division has joined forces with all interested parties and has successfully completed fuel reduction and public safety projects that have been needed for decades.

The success of the Wildfire Division would lead anyone to guess that this is a large branch of AFD. It's actually only 2 full-time positions and 1 part-time position that have spoken in a loud voice. Those 3 individuals, carefully chosen, have done miracles for our public safety. They have made a difference, and they're an example of seeing government funds being used to the benefit of everyone. We need to continue that momentum and not fall into the mistake of past years where lack of follow-up wasted time and money is involved.

Major projects are already in the work. I would ask you to please ensure that we fully fund these 2 and 1/2 positions for our Wildfire Division. Thank you very much. Thank you. There's a question for you, Mr. June.

Miss Burley. Yeah, thanks for testifying, um, and thanks for continuing the work to, uh, advocate for addressing wildfire mitigation. I'm wondering, um, I was just looking for— is there a map of what's— what you mentioned is defined as the wildland urban interface? Um, and, and I'm just wondering, like, is it— like, is that a defined, um, set of boundaries on a map, or is it the muni as a whole? Or— because you mentioned about 83% of us live in that area.

You may not hear this too often, but I can truthfully say to you that I don't know. I would ask that question from the Wildfire Division's officers, and I'm sure that they would show you a map. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard?

Mr. Welton, welcome. Please state your name, where you're from, and you'll have 3 minutes. Hi there, I'm John Welton and, uh, live in Abbott Loop area, and I am here also, as Mark June was, to speak in support of the wildland division and overtly funding the positions. To divert slightly, I have to say I am so proud of the city's response to the typhoon. You know, the city, the state, and what I understand are unpaid FEMA people really got on it.

It's wonderful, and I'm so proud to be from Anchorage when just seeing what we did. And I'm also proud of the work that you guys have funded and has been done over the last few years to really emphasize preventing wildfires. In Anchorage. I got involved with it back in the early 2000s when Sue Rodman and Michelle Weston were young and fired up and jumping up and down telling us we're all going to burn and die if we don't do lots of things that they had tens of millions of dollars to do. Cut down a lot of trees.

They taught us how to make our homes fire-wise. Huge amount of progress. But when the money ran out, momentum stalled. And we went well over a decade, 15 years, without really doing what we needed to do. So we slid back.

Back to the danger zone that we had been in. Over the last few years, you've done so much to fund it and really get some momentum on this. Having these positions overtly, you know, doing this work, and we see the trees cut down, but also what you don't see so much is the encouraging people to take care of their own properties, encourage people to build firewise homes. That's something the city doesn't pay But they see what's being done by the city and they get the message from John and Stephanie and others to do it on your own as well. And that has a huge value that we really need to continue.

There's— Kai Holland expressed this in a way that was kind of new to me. But he said, you know, we as a society don't accept that we have houses burning down. You know, that's rare and it's just something— it's wrong. And we have building codes, we have the large fire department highly trained because we don't want Buildings burn down, houses burn down. We need to get that same mindset regarding wildfire where we just don't accept it and we create the city and the culture and the infrastructure to prevent this from happening so that it's an ongoing and it keeps momentum.

So we have grant money remaining for these positions and we need to get them overtly in the budget so it maintains momentum. It'll help us get more grants to continue the really good work that you guys have funded, you know, for the last few years. Thank you. Thank you. I don't see any questions.

Thanks, John. On the operating budget, please come forward, state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Okay. All right. Jamie Lopez, East Anchorage, formerly Coalition for the Homeless. So this is mostly unprepared remarks, but I've sort of spoken to it before at length. So the budget in general, you know, you fund police, you fund fire, and, you know, there are any number of outreach teams that sort of you have.

You have MCT, MIT, uh, you know, the Health Department and others, uh, as well as our RSLAs going out, but usually they're going with a cadre of police behind them. And so the general fact of the nature, or fact of the matter, is most of the people outside, they do not trust police one bit. And so it doesn't matter if it's the HOPE team or any of the others, um, they will not accept services from people. And so you need something besides fire and police. You need something in between.

You need people that go out at all hours and they're willing to help people, and that is completely gone right now. Um, I can just give you a couple examples. So like a couple weeks ago, uh, just before the Willow Abatement, I went over there to take some food, and I came across a lady in her 40s, and more or less nice Asian lady who was down on her luck, was trying to work under the table, wanted to get her kids back, but clearly nobody had come across her at any point in time. And, you know, first shot out, I find her, take her food, take a video, send it to somebody to try and get her housed. And then obviously the Willow Abatement happens along with Russian Jack, and they claim 25 people got housed.

I know at least 8 that didn't. And then, uh, there was another lady who I came across who more or less, when police were trying to do an enforcement action a couple weeks ago, they had said that they pushed people out of Davis Park. No, they were not in Davis Park. And essentially what ended up happening was, uh, what transpired is, uh, got kicked out of a meeting because it was trying to draw scrutiny to people in a polite, professional way. But the policies are going to get people killed and seriously injured now, and nobody really wants to admit that.

And so in this case, I brought a woman to that meeting to get housed, to talk to somebody, and she just walked out the door because she thought it was one-sided and it wasn't fair. And so ultimately I ended up getting her housed within the past week at the Alex Hotel. But that lady, she'd been approached by the HOPE team ladies and they did not follow up. Two people failed there. There.

3 Weeks had passed. And then likewise, uh, with another lady, uh, I just bumped into her last night, and more or less, uh, her partner had died. She's 7 months pregnant. And, uh, so police had approached her, uh, obviously because of the dead body. And then what ends up happening is the vehicle, uh, the RV that they had, is hit with an impound notice, and, uh, it's set to be towed literally today, but she is wandering the streets right now.

7 Months pregnant, no help. And, uh, you know, I took her food last night and I'm trying to connect her. But you need people, good people. Instead of paying 10 police officers $850 grand to destabilize people, you pay the same to stabilize and you'll get better outcomes. Thank you.

Anyone else wish to be heard in the operating budget 2025-106?

Anyone at all? Mrs. Brawley. Move to continue the public hearing to the meeting of November 18th.

Second. Second. Motion to continue by Mrs. Brawley, seconded by— I think it was Mr. Myers.

Mrs. Brawley.

Yeah, um, I'm going to make this, um, motion for this item and the next one and not the other 5 items because I anticipate excuse me, most if not all member amendments will be on those two items, the operating budget and the capital budget. And so, um, that provides one additional opportunity, um, provided that someone has not already testified tonight on— in this hearing, because it is the same hearing.

Any further discussion? Is there any objection to the motion? I'm hearing and seeing no objection to the motion, so we're going to consider it adopted by unanimous consent. This item will be back before at our next meeting as a public hearing. Next, we have Item 14B, second public hearing, AO 2025-107, an ordinance adopting the 2026 general government capital improvement budget.

Public hearing on this item is now open.

Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Miss Brawley. Move to continue the public hearing to the meeting of November 18th. 15Th. Second. So there's a motion to continue by Miss Brawley, seconded by Mr. Myers.

Again, any discussion? Seeing and hearing no discussion, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the adoption of the motion?

Hearing, seeing no objection, the motion is adopted. This item will be back before us as continued public hearing at our next meeting. Next, we have item 14C, second public hearing, Ordinance AO-2025-108, an ordinance adopting and appropriating funds for the 2026 Municipal Utilities and Enterprise Activities Operating Budgets and the 2026 Municipal Utilities Enterprise Activities Capital Improvement Budgets. Public hearing on this item is now open.

Anyone should be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing and hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed. Would swell the body move to postpone this item to the meeting of November 18th? Second.

Motion postponed by Miss Brawley, second by Mr. Myers. Any discussion? Seeing, hearing none, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the motion?

Hearing, seeing no objection, this item will be considered passed unanimously or postponed to the next meeting. Excuse me. Um, so good enough. Next we have item 14D. 14D, second public hearing, AO 2025-109.

Item 9, an ordinance adopting and appropriating funds for the 2026 operating capital budgets of Anchorage Community Development Authority. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard? Anyone at all? Seeing and hearing none, the public hearing is now closed.

What's the will of the body? Move to continue—. Or move to postpone this item to the meeting of November 18th. Second. So there's a motion to postpone by Miss Brawley, seconded by Mr. Vaughn.

Any discussion? Seeing none, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to adopt the motion to postpone. Is there any objection to the motion? Seeing, hearing no objection, this item will be back before us on the meeting of the 18th.

Next we have item 14E, second public hearing, Resolution AR2025-296, resolution adopting 2026 to 2031 General Government Capital Improvement Program. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing, hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed.

What's the will of the body? Move to postpone to the meeting of November 18th. Second. Moved by Miss Brawley, seconded by Mr. Meyer. Motion to postpone to the 18th.

Any discussion? Seeing and hearing no discussion, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Any objection to the motion? Seeing here no objection, this item be back before us in the meeting of November 18th. Next is item 14F, second public hearing, Resolution R2025-297, resolution adopting 2026 to 2031 six-year fiscal program.

Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing, hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed. Let's call the body Move to postpone to November 18th.

Second. A motion to postpone by Miss Brawley, second by Mr. Myers. Any discussion? Seeing, hearing no discussion, I'd like to ask unanimous consent the motion to postpone. Seeing, hearing no objection, this item is postponed.

Will be back before us in meeting November 18th.

Next we have item 14G. Item 14G is second public hearing, Resolution R2025-298, a resolution approving the 2023 2026 to 2031, Municipal Utilities Enterprise Activities Capital Improvement Programs. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Seeing, hearing none, the public hearing is now closed. Let's roll the body. Move to postpone to November 18th. Second. Motion postponed by Ms. Sprawley, second by Mr. Myers.

Any discussion? Seeing, hearing no discussion, I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there any objection to the motion to postpone Hearing and seeing no objection, this item will be back before us on November 18th. That gets us through the second public hearing on all of the budget items except the two that were continued to the meeting of November 18th. All of these items will be back before us at that meeting, but two of them will have continued public hearings.

So that then brings us to item 14H. 14H is AO 2025-111, an ordinance amending the zoning map and approving the rezoning of approximately 14.83 acres from R-1 single-family residential district, R-2M single-family residential district, and R-3 mixed residential district to PR parks and rec district for Wilderness Subdivision, plat 70-249, lot 8B, Kimberly Subdivision, edition number 1, plat 70-37, block 1, lots 22 to 25, and block 2 Lots 8, 9, 12 to 15, 18, and 19 in Geneva Woods subdivision plat 96-147, Tract B1A, generally located north of East Tudor Road, east of Seward Highway, south of St. Gothard Avenue and Stanton Avenue, and west of McKinney Street in Anchorage. The public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Seeing, hearing none, public hearing is now closed. What's the will of the body? Move to approve. Second. Motion to approve by Ms. Baralee, second by Ms. Silvers.

Ms. Baralee, no comments? Anyone wish to speak to this item? Mr. Boland. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wonder if maybe if somebody from the planning department, um, might be able to speak to, you know, I know in the memo it's mentioned that this is sort of consistent with our land use plan, but we are contemplating here rezoning residential capacity, you know, even up to R-3, to parks and recreation. I know Anchorage has a lot of parks and trails, and that's one of the reasons I love living here. What could be argued is whether or not we have a lot of capacity in terms of residential land for housing. And so maybe if you could just speak to the Planning Department's position on this. Of course.

Thank you. Through the chair to Member Voland, um, Melissa Babb, Planning Director, for the, the record. Um, for this specific case, there is actually a conservation easement on all of those properties or at least most of those properties. So none of them would be developed in perpetuity no matter what their zoning is. Excuse me.

Um, but this is actually a little bit of a preview of another project that we're working on right now that would take parcels that are not currently zoned as parks but are being used and managed as parks and take those and rezone all of them at once to Parks and Recreation. And that AO, I believe, is on it— is on its way to the Planning and Zoning Commission right now. And that discussion about rezoning residential from residential zoning to Parks and Rec, I think, is a pertinent issue and something that I'm looking forward to talking to you all about as that, that AO works its way through the system, because I believe there may be some parcels included in in that proposal that might need to come out because there is potential for them to be potentially used for, for housing in the future. But for this specific AO, because there is a conservation easement involved, the underlying residential zoning designation is irrelevant, really. So, okay, great.

I appreciate that answer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Miss Baldwin Day. Yeah, just wanted to tag on to that, um, that this particular rezone is, um, in, in my neighborhood.

It's immediately adjacent to the Helen Louise Dowell Bird Sanctuary, which I believe is part of the reason for the conservation easement. And I definitely support this rezone. It actually reflects the current neighborhood utilization of this area, which includes a lot of walking trails and those sorts of things. So yeah, I'm excited to support this. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Brawley. Yeah, thanks. Um, Mr. Vohland's questions raised a follow-up for me. I'll save my general questions for that other ordinance. It sounds like, um, in this case, um, and implied in general also, there's the discussion of designated versus dedicated parks.

Is this the way that a park is dedicated, or is that a separate process? Process? That is an entirely separate process, and this, this particular park just went through that process. This is just re— redoing the, the rezoning the properties. It doesn't have anything to do with dedication or designation.

Okay, thank you. All right, anyone else? I don't see anyone else. Thanks. I guess members may proceed to Vote.

Member Martinez? Yes.

Member Baldwin-Day?

Yes. On a vote of 12 to 0, and the youth member votes yes, yes, AO 2025-111 has passed the body. Next we have item 14i, AO 2025-114 2025-114, an ordinance to Anchorage Municipal Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 16.60 Anchorage Food Code to align with recent changes in Alaska statutes by eliminating the municipal cottage food license and raw shell egg vending permit requirements and exempting from licensing all qualifying homemade food producers and updating operational provisions for temporary food establishments and mobile food units. There's also a substitute version, 2025-114-S. Passed an ordinance, Anchorage Municipal Assembly, amending the Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 16.60 Anchorage Food Code to align with recent changes in Alaska statutes by eliminating the municipal cottage food license and raw shell egg vending permit requirements and exempting from licensing all qualified— qualifying homemade food producers recognized in the state's raw milk and raw milk products regulation, updating operational provisions for temporary food establishments and mobile food unit vendors.

Public hearing on this item The forum is now open. Please come forward. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

I apologize, Mr. Chair. Kirk Rose. I'm from the Airport Heights neighborhood. I'm the CEO of Anchorage Community Land Trust.

In this season of gratitude, I also want to thank all of the municipality for our response to the typhoon, and I want to say thank you for introducing this ordinance. It is good for business and cuts the proverbial red tape. Anchorage Community Land Trust supports this proposed repeal of the municipality's current cottage food regulations to bring it in line with state of Alaska standards. ACLT works daily with emerging and small-scale food businesses through our entrepreneur development program, which is called Set Up Shop. That program provides a pipeline of training and support for early-stage entrepreneurs looking to grow.

More than 60% of our clients, of our nearly 600 clients, almost 360 businesses are involved in food-based industries. So we know this reality very, very well. And the cottage food license has been a burden for these early-stage small businesses trying to launch and grow. Many food businesses start with just an idea around the kitchen table and are launched and grown out of home kitchens. The existing licensing requirements currently restricts the types of cottage food products business owners can make and sell from their homes and requires sales to remain below $25,000 per year.

So if a business owner wants to grow their cottage food sales above that figure, which most wanting to operate a business as a full-time source of income would, they are required to operate out of a permitted commercial kitchen space. These things don't exist in abundance in the municipality, and we know that from years of research, development, firsthand experience. We do simply do not have enough permitted kitchens, kitchen space in our community that is affordable or available. So it means that our city is full of food businesses ready and waiting to scale and grow, but unable to do so with current regulations. We're grateful to partner with the Assembly for years to try to streamline business development efforts, saving entrepreneurs time and money.

This does that, and the repeal of these requirements represents another step forward in ACLT's longstanding partnership with the municipality. So we thank you for that. Let's keep reducing paperwork that is unnecessary, regulation, and fees so that we can launch the next generation of vibrant businesses in our community. I'm happy to see the ordinance. I want to point out one additional area where misalignment with state practice creates confusion for early-stage businesses.

The muni requires a more stringent food handlers card than the state's. And let me just detail this in the last 30 seconds, but the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation And the municipality of Anchorage currently have separate requirements for food worker cards. Both cards are valid for 3 years, cost $10, and the tests cover similar information. The state of Alaska accepts the Anchorage card, but the municipality does not accept the state-issued card. Creates confusion for our small business owners in the same way that the cottage food misalignment did, and I hope that could equally be addressed in future legislation.

Thank you. All right, thank you. Welcome back.

No questions? Please come forward if you want to testify. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hi, my name is Monica Jansen. Um, I am in the Midtown District, and I'm one of those bakers that's trying to grow. So I am a vegan, gluten-free, notably celiac-safe baker. So there are no— or there are no commercial kitchens for me that can keep anything safe, because if I use a commercial oven with the fans, all those gluteny things are going to blow onto my non-gluten things and make people sick. So this really is a game changer for me.

This allows me to bridge that gap that he was talking about out. So my goal is not to bake $300,000 worth of product out of my little home kitchen. My goal is to be able to increase that cap, because at $25K, that's not building a business, that's gross sales. Maybe I net $3K of income. You can't grow that way.

And so what I'm looking to do is, you know, increase that cap, get my my stuff and more things. Third-party sales will help me. It'll help me grow into connecting with people to build a wholesale account and again bridge that gap so that I can build up funds in a sustainable way, so I'm not at death's door at every turn of the economy, and I can eventually build that gluten-free, celiac-safe facility, then I can employ people. I can pay or move or bring economy. You know, I'm losing my words.

I'm sorry. I can pay back into the system. I can employ people.

I came from Seward where I had a business down there. Climate change changed it as an outdoor business.

The COVID changed it all. I don't have hundreds of thousands of funds to build this. This literally is my only way to hit my dream. So it's just, again, a game changer, and I want to thank everybody who's been working really hard on it because it means a lot. Thank you.

Anyone else wish to be heard on this item? I guess we have one person for the phone, Mr. Turner.

Hi, you've reached Cecilia's voicemail.

All right, thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard? Anyone at all? Seeing and hearing none, public hearing is now closed. What's the will of the body?

Move to approve the original version. Second. Motion to approve the original by Mr. Brawley, second by Mr. or Ms. Silvers.

Ms. Brawley.

Thanks. Um, I'll Briefly say I am one of the co-sponsors of this along with Member Silvers, and really want to thank the Health Department and the Mayor's Office for taking lead on this and working through. I know it's, it's challenging to update our codes and to balance the protecting the public's health because we do have health powers. That's one of our responsibilities as a muni, but also not standing in the way of folks being able to grow. And so in my estimation, this this meets that mark.

There's certainly more work we can do. Mr. Kirkrose from ACLT spoke to future work. I know others have reached out about that, and so there's certainly more we could do, but I think this is a great step, so I would urge support. Thanks.

Mr. Johnson. Yeah, thank you. I guess I, I'd just be curious to perhaps hear from the sponsor of the yes version. I mean, as I understand, this is also So seems to be in line with the more general intent to bring our code in line with state statutes. So I was wondering if perhaps I could get an explanation on why perhaps we would consider the S version instead of the original.

[Speaker:COMMISSIONER HART] Yeah. Can I make a motion to amend the original to include verbiage from the S? I think you'd have to be a little more specific.

Like, uh, can I move the S version while we are—. You can make a motion to substitute. I don't know that it would pass. I think first the question— Mr. Johnson has the floor— um, was, you know, what does it do? What is it?

Sorry, I didn't know if I had the floor. I was next in the queue, but that— no, it's fine. Um, so talking on the S version, the not rewriting reinventing the wheel here. This just moves to include the state has opened up to allow raw milk, and they have detailed the storage and labeling requirements. And this would just be, again, coming into alignment with what the state has done.

Okay, thank you. Um, since it sounds like there's going to be a motion related to the S version, I think I'll just yield the floor for now. All right, Mr. McCormick, I move the S version. This would be a motion to substitute.

Correct. Okay, there's a motion to substitute made by Mr. McCormick, seconded by Ms. Solvers. Mr. McCormick, uh, I believe I, I spoke to, to the intent of what I was looking to do, just coming in compliance or, uh, alignment with what is accepted and allowed everywhere else in the state, I believe, except for Anchorage.

Sarah, you're in the queue. Um, so I guess first I'll speak kind of to the original, and then I'll add in some comments about the S version. Um, so I'm really excited about this ordinance overall, which aligns us with the new state laws that limit unnecessary bureaucracy, um, increase creates a more supportive environment for small local cottage food businesses to grow and thrive and gives customers, you know, more choices as well.

The S version, I was a real big supporter of Representative Mier's state bill which also in part loosened restrictions on milk products in a safe and practical way. I myself had I've used these products for many years and I have to get them from the Matsu Valley. Cannot get them in Anchorage. So this would line us— align us more fully with the recent state changes which were well vetted and widely supported.

And it would support locally grown businesses. It would allow consumers to purchase these products here in Anchorage rather than going to the Matsu. And so I would actually really love to see these changes go forward, and I would vote yes on the amendment. I have myself in the queue. Mr.

Constant. Thanks. Mr. Ash, can you come forward?

Before she gets here, I think that it's a— it's definitely an opinion that it's safe. It can definitely say that the law made it safer than it would be otherwise, but I don't know that any law around these things that allows it is really safe in the end, but it is a matter of personal choice. Ms. Rash, can you discuss what happens if this does or doesn't pass with our code relative to the state law? Yeah, so the S version, as Assemblymember McCormick had mentioned, is currently in state code.

The Health Department does not currently regulate raw milk. That is a state function. So regardless of this, if this is included or not, the state would continue to enforce and register those that are producing that raw milk. So effectively, with or without it, it doesn't change the law in Anchorage? Correct.

Okay, thank you. Miss Bry. Yeah, thanks. I'll say I'm, I'm somewhat indifferent to this, and I understand the safety concerns. I guess, Ms.

Rash, I did have one question, and thank you for answering earlier. So, so, yeah, as I understand it, this is not something that we're regulating today, is that correct? Correct. So I'm wondering then whether or not this passes— so say, for example, there's a seller in Anchorage, we're not, we're not regulating them, them today, forget the, the change, um, and then, um, they produce a product that does make several people sick, and then they start calling the health department. So what happens in that situation?

Who is responsible for enforcement of that? Uh, it would be the state, and then if the state needed additional assistance through Department of Health, they would engage with the health department. Same thing sort of happens when we investigate infectious diseases. Tuberculosis, for example, uh, the state often runs point, and then we work in tandem with them. So essentially, there is— there would be enforcement retroactively if there was a problem discovered, and then either way, we're not being involved in that, or I should say, we're involved only as a support.

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Folland, actually, Ms. Rash, if you could stay up just for a moment Yeah. So I'm curious, one of the—. Having— thank you for those previous answers. Having heard those answers, one of the members discussed potentially having to go to other neighboring jurisdictions to buy certain products.

Would the outcome of this ordinance change that? Are there products that are not allowed for sale here in Anchorage now that would be if the S version were to pass?

We—. Since we don't have any real insight into that, I don't know how many are currently in Anchorage. We don't have optics into that. We only have what's within our code. So I don't know how many people produce raw milk in the municipality, or if it is strictly just out in— outside of the municipality.

So I don't have that specific answer for you. Okay. So I guess just to ask it more plainly, and again, if you don't have the answer, that's fine. Does this ordinance allow the sale of raw milk where it is not currently allowed?

I'd have to get back to you on that. Okay. Maybe I'll ask then the as the sponsor of the S version, if that's okay, Mr. Chair. Mr. McCormick, is it your understanding that the— or intent behind this S version that it would allow the sale of raw milk in Anchorage as it is not currently allowed?

Yeah, I would say there's obviously a lot of gray area here as we're like doing all this back and forth. A lot of like not entirely sure answers. Let's just make it clear and be done with the gray area. Okay. So here's— I don't know.

I'm just going to maybe have an idea and put this out there for members' consideration. Before I do that, though, I will say thank you to all of the mayor and the assembly co-sponsors and the sponsor of the S version for your eggcellent work on this legislation.

Sorry, had to do it. Thank you, thank you. Um, but, uh, an idea that I have is I wonder if we might postpone this until 12:02, um, and in the interim refer it to our chief medical officer for his review and advice. So I would make that motion. So there's a motion to postpone.

Is there a second?

I'll second that motion. Mr. Foss has moved. Mr. Rivera second the motion is postponed to December 2nd for review by the chief medical officer. Mr. Vond.

Thank you. Yeah, I guess for myself, um, I, I appreciate this coming forward, and, um, I know that most of this is just to sort of get in line with what the state is doing, but I would find it instructive personally, um, to know maybe more about the risk of raw milk and what that entails from a public health standpoint. And I would also just like to have a little bit more clarity around what is currently allowed to be sold and how this ordinance might impact that. Thanks. Ms. Brawley.

Thanks. I'm going to speak against postponement, not because I'm not interested in those issues issues. But I know that there— and I know we always say there's been a lot of work on this, but I think there's a lot of small businesses who really need this relief. And so— and I know this question did come up, actually. Ms. Silvers asked that of the health department.

We had some discussion by email, and there was discussion about coming back to this question in a future ordinance. And so I just want to say that's another option, is to not to, to not to stop the conversation about raw milk, but to say that perhaps that could be a separate piece of legislation rather than holding this one up another month.

Mr. McCormick, on the amendment, I would be, uh, also against postponement. This is just coming in alignment and doing away with gray area. It sounds like, uh, the city is not going out and, uh, prosecuting against people that, that are selling raw milk So let's just get rid of the gray area of what has kind of been agreed upon. It could already be happening.

I'm gonna put myself in the queue briefly. Mr. Constantine. Yeah, I actually think the health department director's answer was a little fuzzier than reality. Reality is what the state law says is allowed is allowed. I think that's a fair read, and what the state law says is restricted is restricted.

And so So my understanding of this is this just reiterates the state law. Functionally doesn't change anything. It doesn't add that Anchorage will now regulate this. It does point to in some ways that Anchorage will now regulate this, which could provide some confusion and gray area. But I think that it's actually much more clear the state law is the law on this question.

For my part, I would love to hear from the Chief Medical Officer, but I'm, like I said, not super bound by any of it. Mr. Chris Roddy, uh, I don't know if the people who out there who are listening to this debate even understand what the heck we're talking about. So I would really love if maybe the sponsor of the S version— you, you, you've said it makes things clear. I'd love for someone to— I'm looking through these, but just Just speak very clearly about the difference between the S version and the regular version. Specifically, what does it do or enact that is different from the regular version, or what is the intent?

Maybe with the sponsor of the S version, just specifically, what does it do that is different? The S version includes raw milk, which as you can tell is a gray area, and if we're sitting up here arguing —no one out there that's a cottage law backyard farmer is going to be able to understand if we sit up here and can't agree on what it is either.

We have food deserts in this town because we can't keep grocery stores open. We have a food security problem, and we're arguing over whether someone in their backyard should be able to sell milk or eggs.

I still don't understand. So I'm, I'm still not, not clear what, what, what it does. It includes raw milk. What, what does that mean? Thank you.

Um, Mr. Prisveri had the floor. I should have been a little more, but I guess it's kind of a relaxed night. Mr. Rivera is next. All right, um, thank you, Mr. Chair.

Um, so I just want to check the assertions that the chair made, which which I believe are valid, but want to check that with our legal folks. So is there someone— could be counsel, could be law— who can speak to the statements that the chair made regarding the clarity?

Could you give us a moment to confer? Sure. Thanks. While you're doing that, would you look for any reference in the code for raw milk?

Mr. Chair, can we just revisit this later on this evening?

I bet the attorneys are getting pretty close, so I think that it's a good question to prompt the attorneys to perform performance law. Time for Shakespeare.

Sure, Ms. Silver, why don't you go ahead, or Mr. Rivera, you're next in the queue, or you asked, so Ms. Silver, go ahead. You ready? Yeah. Hola, Ms. Silver. That's the look of I'm ready.

Yeah, so to respond to the question, um As currently written in code and under the original version, uh, the sale of raw milk would be allowable under the municipal code, um, and would be governed by state law and state administrative code. Um, and as stated by the sponsor of the S version, the S version just makes that explicitly clear and contains the reference to the applicable version of the Alaska Administrative Code. That would govern that provision, thus making it really clear. So to answer Mr. Rivera's question, the chair was speaking in order. Yeah, so I know— no, you have a question.

It's fine to question. I think— appreciate that. But I— so the answer is, um, Ms. Solis, I just wanted to provide a little more clarity to Cameron's question about like what is raw milk. The type of raw milk products that I think people purchase, some that I purchase, is like goat milk yogurt, goat milk cheese, kefir, and various products like that.

Back in the queue, Mr. Presvernia. Yep, yep, uh, thanks. That was really helpful. And I, um, I would just— we're on the motion to postpone, correct? Yes.

So I would encourage my colleagues not to postpone this. I think that the original version is ready to go. Lots of work has been done on it. It's really important. Um, I—.

My understanding of the S version is it just states what is already in state law, and I'm not sure it adds any value to it at all. So I would encourage folks to not postpone this and allow us to go back to the original version and pass it tonight. Thanks. All right, Mr. Waller, you're getting in the queue. Getting in the queue.

Um, you know, I think I'm—. I can support that as well, and I'm happy to withdraw my motion.

I will just say, you know, I think— I, I guess I would just want to remind us as a body that we have a great resource in our chief medical officer, and I think right now we have someone who is well qualified and super competent. So as these questions come up, I, I hope that we can think of that as a person to weigh in on some of these pieces of legislation that come forward. Thank you.

So the motion to postpone Motion has been withdrawn. We're back on the question of the motion to substitute.

Miss Brawley. Thank you. Yeah, and I again understand the general principles. As I reread some of the language, I'm looking at page 8 in particular. It says that the municipality does not— this is really a legal question— the municipality does not regulate this.

It is regulated through the state and it references those pieces. Because we would be putting it in our local code, does that create any expectation or requirement to— for the muni to step in and regulate? Because it says, for example, it does recognize the state, but it also says that they must have a current registration with the state, etc. So I'm just making sure again that there's no gray area where we're creating something that says we don't regulate this. And also, there are conditions that are put in here that are defined in code.

So the question is, is— does the way that it's written create any expectation or any legal authority to actually check if someone has a state registration or not? [Speaker:ANDREW] I wouldn't say that it creates a requirement. However, the fact The fact that we haven't— it would encode it in the municipal code does give us the ability to do some enforcement if an issue were brought to our attention, but I don't think it creates an expectation or a requirement of us to start going around inspecting milk and milk products. Thanks. Yeah, I think Director Rasch spoke to situations where the municipality may assist the state, so thank you.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Brawley asked the question I was going to ask, more or less, but the answer we received from Mr. Hurd, I think, has me feeling more inclined to support the S version. It doesn't seem to create any new burdens for the municipality, but in those instances where somebody is not compliant with state law or potentially creating a health hazard, that we would have a mechanism to perhaps take action feels like it creates some, some potential utility. So in my mind, I see perhaps some use here, but not much downside. So based on that, I think I'm inclined to support the S version here.

Ms. Wint Pearson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I might just offer a comment about why you might be seeing puzzled looks from some of us here on the administration side. I think it's because generally speaking, when something is regulated by the state and the municipal code is silent on it, we defer to state regulation.

As a matter of law. So it is somewhat inconsistent with the way in which, like, the primacy of state law works vis-à-vis the municipality for us to explicitly say we follow state law, because we have to follow state law. There is no— unless we are explicitly given the opportunity to make our laws, you know, additive to state law in some way, the general framework of law is that, again, we all follow federal law, and then we all follow state law, and then from there we have the opportunity to make make some tweaks in our municipal code. So I think that's part of our puzzlement. Part of it also, I think, is some of the language in here, which I know in reading it myself, I say, what does it mean for us to implement within the municipality the state program for raw milk?

That's somewhat— it's just, it's just, it's just diverges from generally, again, how we would— we would generally, we would defer wholesale to what's written in the administrative code and into the Alaska statutes and we look to that to govern how things are to be regulated within the municipality. And again, that's the default wholesale. Like, there's no— if it's— we're not regulating, then that's where we go. So I think that's why you're getting some puzzled faces from this side of the room. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. They're not just from that side of the room. Mr. McCormick. Yeah, I think there's a lot of puzzled faces, and that's why we need to make it clear, because we just spent 30, 40 minutes with multiple attorneys trying to figure out the answer here which means backyard farmers don't under— they supposed to hire an attorney to try and figure this out? Like, let's just make it easy.

I appreciate Member Johnson's comments that there's very little downside. This, as we have now figured out and been enlightened, this is regulated by the state. There's no liability risk to us. Let's just make it clear so people in Anchorage know what they can do and get, get local fresh food from their neighbors. Thank you.

Mr. Pressworthy. Yeah, last stab at this. I think this makes it less clear. State law is very clear. Putting this into our own code, I think, in, in this way confuses it.

And so I think not saying anything about it allows it to defer to state law, which is very, very clear. And so I think, as we heard, this is not typical in terms of what we would do, and I think these actions make it more confusing. So I would really encourage my colleagues to— let's follow practice. The law is very clear at the state level, and we would just defer to that. So that's my last pitch.

Thanks. Mr. Boland. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was just going to say that I think we should move to a vote.

Um, I'm gonna have one last comment on this before we take the vote. Mr. Constant? Yeah, it was asserted that a person producing raw milk shouldn't or doesn't have an attorney. I would recommend anybody producing raw dairy products and selling them on the market has an attorney because you're probably 10 to 1 more likely compared to non-raw providers to need one.

So with that, on the question, members may proceed to vote. The motion is to substitute.

Member Martinez?

No. Member Baldwin-Day?

No. A vote of 5 to 7, and the youth member votes Yes. Yes. The motion fails to pass. We're back on the main motion.

Any further discussion?

Seeing and hearing none, members, may I proceed to vote?

Member Baldwin-Day. Yes. Member Martinez? Yes.

On a vote of 12 to 0, AO 2025-114 has— and the youth member votes yes. Yes. AO 2025-114 has passed the body.

Next we have item 14J, which is AO 2025-119, an ordinance amending extrajudicial code Title 2, Section 2.40.035, recognition of community councils 2.40.040, establishment of community councils in 2.40.090, community council maps in order to carry out the 10-year review and adjustment of community council district boundaries. Public hearing— before we open the public hearing, let Ms. Spraulley speak to the plan. Yeah, thank you. We have been requested to postpone this item to the meeting of December 2nd. And so we would take testimony tonight.

We're also going to schedule a work session, I believe, for this Friday so that we can dig into this a little further because we understand there's, there's comments. So you are welcome to testify now or to hold until that future hearing. And I would offer that the anticipated scope of changes are not substantive enough to likely cause a continued public hearing, or a new public hearing, if you will. And so if you testify tonight, then you would use your opportunity to speak to the matter once changes are proposed. So with that, public hearing is now open.

Anyone wish to testify tonight? Again, this item is likely to be continued to another night.

Are you coming forward?

Okay, welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes.

Hello. Okay, I'm going to testify as an individual tonight. Uh, we might have someone here from our community council at the next meeting testifying. Is that gonna be okay? Please state your name, where you're part of town from.

We got 3 minutes. Steve Callahan from University Area Community Council. Uh, that's, that's where I live, and I just so happen to be the president of the community council, but I'm not representing the community council at this time. Um, I support postponing this. Uh, one reason is we are probably going to merge with Tudor Area Community Council.

We have not come up with a new name name yet. It'd be nice to have a little more time to, uh, discuss that with our community council. Okay, the other item, I just want to point out that there was a resolution, it's on, uh, page 1036, that we, uh, just so happened to sign this resolution We're against giving up that area between Tudor, Northern Lights, uh, Baxter, and Boniface.

And, um, that's all I'm going to say. All right, thanks. Thank you, Steve. Welcome anyone else want to testify on this item. Again, this item— this public hearing will be continued to the meeting December 2nd.

All right, Ms. Sprague, move to continue the public hearing to the meeting of December 2nd. Second. Motion to continue by Miss Brawley, second by Mr. Myers. Any discussion?

Oh, I'm sorry, of— okay, you want to come on back? She has a question for you, Steve. Go ahead. Yeah, there's— since there's not a lot of pressure, we can let him come back next time. Just speak up if I miss you somehow.

Do you know how many people are in your community council? You know, that's a good question, and the problem we have is, uh, we have a lot of transient people in our community council area. So we also have the hospital, we also have of course the university, so that, that complicates things somewhat. Um, I was shocked to find out that 2,500 people were in the area between Baxter Boniface Tutor in Northern Lights. So I'm estimating that we probably have upwards of 8, 9, 10,000 maybe.

And, you know, possibly, uh, you know, a small percentage of that actually show up to the meetings. But, you know, having all the people at the hospital and stuff, you could say, well, you know, we have all these students and all these other people that would be eligible be part of the community council. So, thank you. I mean, does anyone know off the top of their head? I know it's the neighboring community council that is wanting to take some of the people from your community council.

I think they have 3,000-ish people total. So they're a very undersized community council and they're surrounded by two much larger community councils. And so I guess I'm just trying to think of how to balance balance, you know, the desires of the community council, but also with like the being equitable about the size of the community councils. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] The particular area I live in is actually pretty dense, and this area is not as dense. I thought there was maybe 1,500 in that area, but apparently I was like wrong.

Thank you. Okay, thank you. All right, now the public hearing is closed. We have a motion to continue the public hearing. Anyone wish to speak to that?

I'd like to ask unanimous consent. Is there an objection to the motion? Seeing, hearing no objection, that item will be back before us on December 2nd. Which brings us now to item 14K. Item 14K is AO 2025-120, an ordinance Municipality of Anchorage, Alaska, authorizing negotiation between the municipal manager and execution and delivery by the municipality of a purchase and sale agreement for City Hall located at 632 West 6th Avenue, related parking located at 613, 621, and 633 West 7th Avenue, and negotiation by the chief fiscal officer of a ground lease and facilities leaseback to determine the terms and conditions, including financing terms relating to the ground lease and facilities leaseback, and appropriation— excuse me— and appropriating the proceeds of such ground lease.

The public hearing on this item Item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing, hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed. What's the will of the body?

Move to approve. Second to approve by Miss Brawley and a second by Mr. Vollen. Before we get to member comments, Mr. Fawcett has been asked to make a brief but thoughtful presentation. Mr. Fawcett. Mr. Celsi, minus his superpower, no PowerPoint.

No PowerPoint today, but thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I appreciate the Assembly's consideration of this item. It's really addressing two buildings. Where does City Hall find itself in the future?

And if we buy it, what mechanism do we use? Do we use— as you know, this is a long-discussed issue. The municipality has been in what was formerly called the Hill Building since the 1970s. Current lease was signed in 2001, and we've been leasing the building since our first occupation. Um, and the current lease has an option for us to purchase the building at 97% of fair market value.

The prior administration secured an appraisal for the building in May 2024. We came into this concept because we knew that the lease for the building expires at the end of this year, and so we needed a solution. And of course, there are many potential options. We could have negotiated a new lease to stay where we are and continue to rent. We could have gone somewhere else, and that would have been leasing a new space or buying a different space or building a different space.

Or we could execute the purchase option. We wanted to test those various options, and so as we mentioned to the assembly in the late on the table item this morning, we actually put out a request for proposals, 2025-P7, which was just entitled provide office space for an alternate or renewed City Hall, and that process really did not yield any solution other than the City Hall stays in its present location. So we made the decision to move forward, and then that teed up the question of do we continue to rent or do we buy the building? Our current landlord represents that the current triple net lease that we are paying is actually at under market rates, but we had no indication that we would be able to secure a new lease at under market rates. And we were very mindful of the fact that the appraisal for the building and the parking lots today, the all-in buy price, is $28.5 million.

But since 1979, and without adjusting for inflation, we've already paid more than $60 million in rent. It looks to us as we were analyzing the possibilities that there's just no reason reason to keep doing that in perpetuity, and it'll be in the municipality and the public's long-term best interest to just buy the building. And so we are now proposing to execute the purchase option that is in our current lease. Um, what happens as a result of executing that option is that we effectively swap out our current annual rent payment for a debt service payment, and that is more— the debt service payment is more than our current rent payment, but our annual operations and maintenance costs associated with the building go down, largely because we are not passing— we are not paying property taxes that the private landowner has to pay and passes through back to us, and because we procure property insurance at a much steeper discount because we have so many buildings and we procure our insurance with the school district. All of which, when you put that together should result in a small amount of annual savings for us even over the next 30 years of leasing.

And then of course that rent payment, that debt service payment, would effectively go away. So that is our proposal, that we are choosing that at the long last many decades of discussion whether we should own this building or continue to rent it, that we would like to purchase it. We also clarified for the assembly we haven't assumed assumed any operational changes other than today the maintenance is largely performed by— the day-to-day maintenance is largely performed by an individual who is a contractor, and we will need to bring somebody in, in-house. So we have assumed that we'd continue paying the same amount that we're paying for the contractor. It would just go to a new maintenance and operations facilities employee.

And we had a very smart question from Member Voland, who said, well, if we buy this building, how do we ensure that it stays in good repair? And at least the initial pitch is that today our lease obligates us to make about $205,000 of deposits into a tenant improvement and a capital reserve account associated with the building. We haven't assumed any changes to that, so if you pass a continuation budget next year, we would still have the budget ability to make that same level of annual deposits. As a total aside, I'd say that as an owner of the building, I think we would also be motivated to make a number of efficiency changes. A good part of our current contractor's day is spent changing light bulbs because none of the fixtures in that building have been upgraded to LEDs.

I think we would make those kind of capital decisions. We're both saving time on the maintenance side and in the long-term utility costs. So that's the building transaction side. That's why we are proposing that it is now time for the municipality to own its City Hall. And then that quick note on the mechanism.

The mechanism is a little bit, uh, inscrutable to those who have dealt in the world of municipal finance or otherwise in the finance world and see the lease-leaseback mechanism, I think the way to potentially demystify it is to say that if the assembly approves this today, we are presently planning to transact with JP Morgan Securities. And so the way the lease-leaseback transaction would work is you can think of it as step 1, JP Morgan Securities gives us the $35 million we need. Step 2, we use that building— that money to buy the building the building from the current owner, which is Anchorage Public Private Partnership, of which we mostly deal with Mark Pfeffer. Step 3 is now that we are in possession of the building, we lease City Hall to JP Morgan Securities because they just gave us $35 million. And then finally, Step 4, JP Morgan Securities leases the building back to us at $1.8 million a year for the next 30 years.

So that ultimately winds up together feeling a lot like, we just borrowed $35 million from JPMorgan Securities at $1.8 million a year for the next 30 years. It's sort of a little cumbersome because it involves all of the lease-leaseback verbiage and machinations, but that's sort of the essential business essence of the case. With that, I'm happy to answer any questions. We were gratified that the public got sort of extraordinary notice of this transaction, as we got a front page article in the Anchorage Daily News, and so far we've actually not really heard a lot of comments about it. I think folks have hopefully come to see it in a similar way, that this is in the long-term best interest of the municipality.

I think you left off one detail. You said we lease it back from the financing at $1.8 million a year, but then—. And then at the end of the term, we come into full possession of the building and we are no longer paying debt service or rent. So it's rent-to-own. Yeah, but we own the— we really own the building.

Okay, so now, Miss Brawley, you were the mover. Anything— would you like to speak to the motion? Yeah, I mean, I'll say I think this makes a lot of sense. I think the part where I've been struggling, partly because we know there's so much else going on, it was difficult for me to really grasp what this lease-leaseback situation is, because— and the reason is not just because I need to understand it, but because all of us are going to be answering questions, and especially where did we get $35 million, um, in an environment we— where we are saying, which is also true, we don't have extra money, we don't know what our fund balance is. And so I think, um, I, I think the explanation makes me understand it better, but I still anticipate that we will get questions like that from the public, and it will be hard to understand, even though it is very easy to understand that we already paid $60 million to— it sounds like basically a private individual over, what, 50 years, 20 years, whatever it was with the current owner.

So I guess my request would just be, like I said, I support this, and also I'm really struggling to communicate how this creates value other than the very technical explanation. And so I'm trying to still get to somewhere, and that's not an ask for the dais right now, but how to translate that further into, um, helping people understand that we're not just spending out $35 million all at once. I think that's really the challenge, um, but I appreciate the explanation. I appreciate all the information, and I would urge folks to look at the, um, the answers to, to questions that are written down because that was also very helpful. Thanks.

Thank you, Miss. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Anderson. Yeah, thank you. First off, thank you to the administration for investigating this.

Um, I look forward to coming back in 2055 and appearing before the assembly and saying you're welcome, assuming this all comes to pass. Um, just to clarify a few things about the ordinance before us though, so this would authorize the municipal manager to negotiate and execute a purchase and sale agreement, so there would not necessarily be a follow-up ordinance or other, uh, other item that would require approval by the assembly for, for the sale agreement to actually be executed. Is that correct? That is correct. This would be the single vehicle.

Okay. Um, however, as I'm looking at this, and then based on the explanation you provided, this sounds like this is, this is a good deal. You know, the fact that our carrying costs reduced by around $300,000 a year, sounds great. However, as I understand it, we're in the process of negotiating, right? I mean, are there any concerns that there may be in that process material changes to the purchase price or other parts of the deal structure that might impact, you know, what we could call the, the desirability from, from our point of view?

Um, I guess I'm just— I feel slightly trepidatious about handing over that power and then realizing that we might ultimately, um, have without another opportunity to, to take a stab at it, see something different from what we are contemplating here. Very fair question, Member Johnson, through the Chair. No, we are not expecting anything exotic about the purchase and sale agreement at all. We are obligated under Title VII to give you the essential terms of these agreements. And here the essential term really is the purchase price and that we are acquiring the City Hall parcel and the parking lots in front of them.

We are actually in the midst of working on the agreement now in anticipation of a possible Assembly approval. And I'll say everyone involved in the transaction has said this is a very vanilla agreement. There's really nothing other than we are buying the building. Okay, thank you.

Got a queue going. Ms. Silver.

Yeah, we could have purchased that building multiple, multiple times with what we have paid in lease payments so far. So I want to thank the administration for working to make sure that we do not pay lease payments in the amount to purchase it multiple, multiple more times into the future. And I'm definitely in support of this. Mr. Kirker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And maybe just a clarifying question for my benefit, but my understanding is that the proposed fair market value was done in May of 2024. Is that correct? That is correct.

There were formally two appraisals because the whole transaction involves formally, I think it is, five different lots. City Hall sits on one platted lot, and then the parking lot in front of City Hall to the south by the— is formally like four, four or five more lots. And so there was two different appraisals. I'm talking about the City Hall appraisal appraisal was May 2024. The parking lot appraisal came in after that, and I think it was this calendar year.

So has the owner agreed that that is the current fair market value? Yes. Okay, okay, thank you.

Okay, you know, I think that— I mean, to Member Brawley's point earlier, it's when we're sitting here, we're saying we're at a fiscal cliff, and, you know, we're— there's multiple I think like 5 different tax proposals on the table. I think that it's a hard thing for people to wrap their heads around that, oh, by the way, we're going to commit $35 million, we're going to buy a building. So the timing obviously is not ideal, though I do understand, of course, we've been renting this son of a gun for quite a while, and I understand the arguments for it. I do just, you know, the timing just really isn't ideal. And I don't know if that gets better at all at any point.

But thank you. I yield back.

And if I could, Mr. Chair, I think we were mindful of that as well. There was a different version of this transaction we considered, which was, you'll see in this document, we are also intending to finance some essential improvements. We're going to replace the roof, which is at its end of useful life. We're going to replace the fire alarm system.

Alarm system, which also needs to be fixed. It's broken currently. A different version of this transaction could have been, well, if we're going to acquire this building, we could also finance a bunch of tenant improvements. So we thought about that, but really, born of our sort of municipal poverty, we just couldn't get there. And so we landed largely as is, where is, except for the roof and for the fire system, because that led us to have a small amount of year-over-year incremental savings.

So I think we were thinking similarly.

Put myself in the queue. Mr. Constant. So I've been asking this question for as long as I've been on this body. When are we going to get the middleman out of the way and stop renting a building we've bought 3 times or so?

So this just is the only thing that makes sense at this point. I will say on our trip that we just took, we visited a city that had gone through a major crisis, lost thousands of people in earthquake and tsunami. And because of their federal investment, they built a new city hall. And the city hall we went into was basically 20 months old, 18 months old, and it was so extraordinary. A rooftop deck, a room that showed you the whole city.

You could walk around and interpret the beauty of the city. An assembly chamber inside the building with the viewing lodge and room for testifiers, all just pristine. And the mayor's offices, suites and offices for large meetings and small meetings. And oh, it would be so nice to be that city, not the trauma that they went through, but the fact that they've been able to invest in themselves and they see a future bright enough for themselves to do that. And I think that this argument is an argument in the brightness of our future, that we are the rightful stewards of owning our own City Hall and that we should be the ones that possess it so that we can unilaterally and individually make decisions about how we organize the floors and how we organize the structures.

And oh, I long for the day when Anchorage is flush and healthy financially so that that we can be like our neighbors and our sister cities. But until that day, this is the best deal, I believe, and I urge your support. Ms. Brawley. Thanks. Just one other question to make sure I understand.

So the payments that we'd make is $1.8 million a year, and then what is the duration of those? I know you said the number of years, but I missed it. I believe it's 30. Okay, so it's like mortgage essentially. Okay, thank you.

Anyone else?

Seeing, hearing none, members may proceed to vote. Oh wait, um, Chair, could I— sorry, Miss Baldwin-Day, thanks for speaking up. Miss Baldwin-Day had asked to be in the queue. Sorry, I didn't see you. Go ahead, Erin.

Yeah, thank you. One, one final question for Mr. Fawzy. Uh, how, um, how does this $1.8 million per year square with what we are currently paying in rent on an annual basis?

Thank you for the question, Member Baldwin-Day. I'm pulling up the assembly memorandum, which I believe details that we are currently paying $1.871 million in rent for the building and $2.12 million in annual operations and maintenance, for a total carrying cost of about about $4 million. After the transaction, we're going to incur a new annual lease payment, which is like the debt service, of $2.35 million. I think I had— I was using the wrong number when I was describing this before, but $2.35 million. But our annual operations and maintenance costs decreased to approximately $1.3 million, and that's how you get to the annual net carrying cost savings of about $300,000.

Thank you. Yeah, so that, that seems like a really helpful thing to be able to share with the public that we are in fact saving money. We are being more fiscally responsible by engaging in essentially a rent-to-own agreement versus continuing to pay rent in perpetuity. So thank you. That's helpful.

Anyone else? Thanks for speaking up, Ms. Baldwin-Day. It's easy to miss the ones on the phone. Seeing hearing none, then members may proceed to vote.

Member Baldwin-Day? Yes. Member Martinez?

Yes.

On a vote of 11 to 1, and the youth member votes yes. Yes. AO 2025-120.

Pass the body.

Next we have Item 14L. 14L is AO-2025-121, an ordinance authorizing the relinquishment of one recorded— one recorded by document 60-foot water and sanitary sewer easement located on former Kincaid Estates Tract 1, Plat 2003-95, known as Sonoma Glen at West Park. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Seeing, hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed. Would swell the body move to approve? Second. Motion by Miss Spradley, second by Miss Rowland. Any discussion?

Miss Spradley. Um, yeah, just I'll say thank you to AWWU for providing a more clear map. Um, if you look in the original item It's, it's just a drawing and it's not clear where it is in physical space. So please look at the additional laid on the table AIM for a clear map of what this is. Thanks.

Anyone else? Seeing and hearing none, members may proceed to vote.

Member Martinez. Yes. Member Baldwin-Day. Yes.

On a vote of 12 to 0, and the youth member votes yes, yes, AO 2025-121 has passed the body. Now we have item 14M, AO 2025-122, an ordinance of the Municipality of Anchorage, Alaska, authorizing and providing for the issuance of general obligation refunding bonds of the municipality to provide funds required to refund certain outstanding general obligation bonds they may Municipality, providing for the form and manner of sale of said bonds, pledging the full faith and credit of the municipality to the payment thereof, authorizing authorized representative of the municipality to determine the manner of sale of said bonds and related matters. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Seeing and hearing none, public hearing on this item is now closed. What say all the body? Move to approve. Motion to approve by Miss Brawley. Is there a second?

Second. Second, I respond. Any discussion?

Seeing none, members may proceed to vote. Member Baldwin-Day?

Yes. Member Martinez? Yes.

On a vote of 12 to 0, and the youth member votes yes, AO 2025-122 is passed the body. So that takes us through all of our public hearing items. Next are quasi-judicial administrative and alcohol and marijuana matters. So at this point, we excuse our youth member. Thank you, um, Ms. Bowser, for participating with us tonight.

And next item up is 15A, Resolution AR-2025-326, a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly stating its conditional protest regarding the renewal of beverage dispensary license number 417 -973, with endorsements for Eagle River Alehouse LLC, DBA Mountainous Brewing Company Eagle River, located at 11901 Old Glenn Highway, Eagle River, Alaska 99577. The public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing, hearing none, public hearing is now closed.

What's the will of the body? Move to approve. Second. Moved by Mr. Meyer, second Mr. Kirker, any discussion?

I'll just say that I'm surprised we didn't hear anything. I often hear from people talking about how loud it is when he throws the summer concerts there, but they sure are good events, and I do hear complaints, but they don't make it here. Those concerts are over. They're building a 15-plex behind it now, so you won't have those complaints any longer. Ah, Mr. Myers reports that the concert venue is no more.

We will It was fun while you could get it. Okay, that probably is why there are no complaints. Then if there's nothing further, members may proceed to vote.

Member Martinez? Yes. Member Baldwin-Day? Yes.

On a vote of 12 to 0, AR 2025-326 has passed the body. Next is Item 15B, Resolution R2025-327, Resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly stating its conditional protest regarding the renewal of package store license number 5723 for Anchorage Ale House LLC, DBA The Continental, located at 2830 C Street, Anchorage, Alaska.

Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all? Seeing, hearing none. Public hearing is now closed.

What's the will of the body? Move to approve. Second. Moved by Mr. Myers— that was in stereo— second by Ms. Brawley. Any discussion?

Seeing, hearing none, members may proceed to vote. Member Baldwin-Day?

Yes. Member Martinez?

Yes.

On a vote of 12 to 0, AR 2025-327 has passed the body. Next we have item 15C, AR 2025-332, a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal Assembly approving an alcohol special land use permit for the retail sale of alcohol with winery retail license number 60683 for Onsite Brewing Company, LLC, DBA Cirque Cider Company, and the B3 General Business District located at 3211 Denali Street within Calle Subdivision, Block 14, Lot 1 through 6, generally located south of East 32nd Avenue, west of the Stewart Highway, north of East 33rd Avenue, and east of Denali Street in Anchorage. Public hearing on this item is now open. Anyone wish to be heard on this item? Anyone at all?

Seeing here none, public hearing on this item is now closed. What's the will of the body? Move to approve. Second. Okay, moved by Miss Spraulley, seconded by Mr. Rivera.

Any discussion? Seeing and hearing none, members may proceed to vote. Member Baldwende? Yes. Member Martinez?

Yes.

So on a vote of 12 to 0, AR 2025-332 has passed the body, which concludes our action agenda for the night. We'll move now on to audience participation. Anyone should be heard, please come forward. Welcome. Please state your name, what part of town you're from.

You'll have 3 minutes.

I'm William Baxter from Fairview. I've asked Alaska Farm Bureau to have a chapter here in Anchorage, and I've— I'm now working on The Grange, which is another agricultural organization I think what we need here is a Farm Bureau chapter and maybe a Grange chapter too. Because— and also we need maybe agriculture, you know. And I think we need— one of the things I believe we need is an agriculture building on the airport for natives and that. Corporation.

And, uh, the, uh, but I work with FFA and all these people, and, uh, I'm pushing things really hard, really hard. And I talked to Lisa Murkowski's office, I talked to, uh, Nick Bigich's office, I talked to a lot of people. And I'm, I mean, today I was at the, uh, walking around with my sticker shirts and then walking around in the, in the uh, the miners dancing. And I walked around in, uh, other things too. And I, I go to these things.

And next, next week I go to the Farm Bureau thing in here at the, uh, the, uh, Sheraton Hotel. So I really work hard to do this. But I think we need to— I think I'm going to work on getting Farm Bureau. One of the reasons I— we need We need the Farm Bureau. And I think a lot of times, I think what I'm working on, trying to work on out there, the Grange is, you know, CUNY, you know, they should, like the Grange could get involved with the CUNY Council here.

And I think the Grange would also be good. The Grange would be good here for the community councils. You know, like have, like, community farm, our gardens and stuff like that. I think that would be too, and that's another thing I'm working on. But, you know, and I've— then the mayor here, I want to thank the mayor here for— there was a— I helped with a community garden on Ingrid and 14th.

And it was great. And, uh, I think that we could have worked with community gardens with, uh, that. And I think a Grange would be the one to do it. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else wish to be heard, please come forward. Anyone at all.

All right, please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Okay, uh, Jamie Lopez, formerly Coalition, formerly homeless. So Oh, um, end of the meeting. So NASCAR Bill, I love that guy.

His shirts are always imaginative. Sometimes I don't understand what he's saying, but he's definitely committed to it. And yeah, always love seeing him. So that said, uh, Got Milk, uh, you know, uh, milk does a body good. Uh, watch that thing play out 30, 35 minutes, and it got to the point of almost becoming a parody or a satire skit where, you know, you essentially have any number of people up here with beards, and you have a mustache competition where, you know, Mr. Johnson is going against Mr. McCormick against Mr. Vollen and Mr.

Constant about who gets the better mustache and the viscosity of the raw milk and how that plays out. And then obviously the ultimate winner is security guard Brandon out back because he has a majestic mustache. But, you know, he would win the competition. So where do we go from here? So it is a bit of a, you know, comedy sketch routine, but at some time, some point in time, I think you've lost the plot because you spend 30 or 45 minutes on things like that.

But I can tell you there's people freezing outside right now and they're not getting help. And, you know, I'm fearing for the worst. I want to go out there every single night and I see what's going on and more or less they're being run into the ground just by the weather and also by the police. And it's sort of what's playing out right now on the east side of town. And I'm not going to name the spot, but yeah, they're not getting help.

And so more or less, I just, I wish people would listen. I'm trying to do an impassioned plea. I realize I'm beating a dead horse, course. But I'm hoping that people up here will do the right thing, and I continue to try to come here hoping people will do the right thing. Because the Typhoon Huang victims, even though there are federal funds, they got a gold standard, you know.

They, they're getting a good set of care and relief, and, and, you know, they were whisked into essentially hotel rooms within the better span of 2 weeks. And, you know, I fear what happens when that funding is going to run out. They'll end up right outside and they'll be right under, you know, the meat grinder of the police that are going right now, displacing people endlessly. And so, um, yeah, uh, there's not a whole lot more that I can say than, um, please try to support the people outside. They need it.

They're not getting it. The 3 options right now are essentially, uh, you know, the Safety Patrol. They say they take you to the Safety Center. It's the jail. You know, you go there, you essentially go to an SWS facility, or you go to a former strip club.

And, you know, maybe you're lucky enough to get in the Alex Hotel, but few are. And they need better options, and they need to get things so they stay alive long enough to get housing. Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard? Please come forward.

All right, please state your name, what part of town you're from. You'll have 3 minutes. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Savannah Schmidt.

I'm from Turnagain, side of town. Would you pull that microphone down? Thank you. Me and my little self. Hello.

Hi there. Welcome. I'm Savannah. I'll introduce myself again. Savannah Schmidt, Turnagain side of Anchorage.

I am a resident of Anchorage, and I'm here to share an experience that I had on Sunday, November 2nd. My washer broke. Broke, so I went to the laundromat. Um, while doing laundry at the local laundromat, I attempted to leave when I was finished. I was loading my bags into my car when another individual intentionally parked behind my vehicle and refused to move, deliberately blocking— deliberately blocking me from exiting.

I was— the way the car parked was so close next to me that I couldn't even get into my my own vehicle. I was stuck outside of my vehicle, unable to get away in this situation. Um, at this point in time, I called 911. I called 911 at 1:55 PM. Um, APD told me that they were going to dispatch somebody, then I should see somebody soon.

That didn't happen. Um, APD didn't arrive until 3 hours later, and I had been locked out of my car in the middle of the street in the parking lot because the safe place that I was at, the laundromat where I found safe to do my laundry, the individual who blocked me in went and did laundry too. Um, this person held me for over 2 hours, going into 3 hours, into this parking lot, um, unlawfully restrained. There is no law and it falls between a gap as far as statutes for protection. Sorry, I'm a little bit nervous.

Never stood up before anybody and asked for help like this. So basically, this incident has revealed a troubling gap in protections for Anchorage residents. Right now there appears to be no clear consequences for someone who has intentionally trapped, blocked, intimidated, or in any way unlawfully restrain a person unless it escalates to physical harm. I have two children. My children were at home.

I needed to get to them. I couldn't get to them. That put me in jeopardy. That put my children in jeopardy. Also put my safety in jeopardy because I don't know who this other individual was.

I got lucky. I truthfully got lucky that day because I am who I am and that person happened to be who that person is at the end of the day. But not everybody's case is going to be like that. I could have been a different person, that person could have been different, and it could have endangered both people.

No one should be unlawfully restrained, harassed, or intimidated while going up and about during their daily life. What happened to me could happen to anyone and without stronger protections, others may not be fortunate to have law enforcement intervene before situations get worse. I'm here to respectfully ask and urge the Assembly to consider the following questions: How can we better protect citizens from deliberate acts of harassment and unlawful restraint? How can we better support faster responses from law enforcement and similar similar situations? And how can we— how can we create clear enforceable laws that prevent intentional intimidation and restraint of others in public or private spaces?

I strongly encourage the assembly to review Anchorage current ordinances and explore the new measures and ensure accountability and prevent incidences like this from happening again. Every Anchorage resident deserves to feel safe, supported, and free from intimidation in their daily lives. Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. Um, I actually, this, after this incident, because it did happen Sunday, Monday morning I called the prosecutor's office. The prosecutor is the one who urged me to come here today and speak before you guys because I do fall between a gap in law with statutes as to where I was, I guess, stationarily kidnapped in a sense.

I was unable to leave. I was trapped. I was intimidated. I was harassed. I was yelled at.

And for the record, or off the record, whatever it may be, this person happened to be an 80-year-old woman who was having a bad day and just decided to take it out on me. But that doesn't, you know, build anything better, because what if she came up on somebody that's not me? There's a lot of self-defense laws in Alaska as well. And it could have put her in very much danger as well, or had it been somebody propping me to get taken. Thank you.

So I have myself in the queue first. I'm sorry. Second, um, I did forward your communication that you sent earlier to the chief of police, and he did say that if you'll provide your phone number to the municipal attorney, he will call you first thing in the morning to make sure that the law were applied faithfully, and he is ready for your call, or he'll call you if you give your number. And so, um, she's the municipal attorney up there, so he is expecting to hear from you, or he will— he's expecting your number so he can call you. Otherwise, we have our public safety committee that can really take this question up when the time is right for us in our cycle.

But again, I'm sorry up front, and that sounds terrible and it does sound like you were kidnapped. So, but the chief of police will be calling if you'll give your number. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Do I share that now or later?

She's ready for you now. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you for your time.

Right. Anyone else wish to be heard?

Seeing, hearing none, then we'll now move on to assembly member comments. We'll start with Mr. Presverdia. No comments, thank you. Mr. Kerker. No comments, thank you, Chair.

Mr. No comments, thank you. Mr. Boland. No comments, thank you. Miss Brawley. I'll just remind members to make sure to get your budget amendments to our budget analyst Matthew Farina by the end of day Wednesday.

It does not need to be a complete thought, but really just an idea so that you can talk about what you're trying to do, and there's time to workshop it on the back end. So, um, so please be in touch with him as soon as possible if you haven't, and that way we all have the benefit benefit of seeing the amendments on Friday. Thanks.

Mr. Johnson. No comment, Chair. Thank you. Um, Ms. Baldenday. Nothing for me, Chair.

Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Silvers. No comments.

Thank you. Ms. Martinez. No additional comments. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Mr. McCormick. No comments. Thank you. Mr. Myers.

No additional comments. Thanks, Chair. So I'll just have a couple things. One, to remind folks, Item 14J is about 2 inches of paper in your packet, please save it. The clerk's intent next meeting is not to reprint that on the December 2nd meeting, which is the community council boundaries.

There will be a document with a link that you can open up, but we don't want to kill another tree. You can take the one that's in your packet. If you don't have a packet, there's a box of them out there in the lobby you can pick up off the ground. So just get yours now, it'll be easier for everyone then. And then second, I want to thank APD.

Today they provided for us the dashboard for their camp and fire kind of enforcement. And I think folks have been asking for that for a while to understand how those laws have been implemented and what's happening with them. So if you haven't seen that email, please check it out. I don't have the link handy, um, but it's on APD's homepage if you wanted to check it out to see how APD and AFT are implementing those laws. So I want to thank the team for getting that up and out.

So that members can track the performance of the fidelity to that law. Speaking of holes in the law. So otherwise, thank you everybody for a good meeting. The next meeting is the ultimate poker hand of the year. It is the budget.

We will get it done. And if we don't get it done before the end of the month, we'll meet every single day until it's done. So let's get it done. With that, members, We'll be adjourned.

Uncle Sam ready to save us. Thank God you came, thank God you came, thank God you came. Always the good guys coming to save us, promise a good life. Thank God that you came, always.