Business meeting to consider S.236, to amend the Act of August 9, 1955 (commonly known as the "Long-Term Leasing Act"), to authorize leases of up to 99 years for land in the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe Reservation and land held in trust for the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head (Aquinnah), S.1513, to take certain Federal land in the State of Washington into trust for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, S.2098, to provide for the conveyance of certain property to the Southcentral Foundation located in Anchorage, Alaska, S.2735, to take certain Federal land in the State of California into trust for the benefit of the Shingle Springs Band of Miwok Indians, H.R.681, to amend the Act of August 9, 1955 (commonly known as the "Long-Term Leasing Act"), to authorize leases of up to 99 years for land held in trust for the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe and the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head (Aquinnah), H.R.2302, to take certain Federal land in the State of California into trust for the benefit of the Shingle Springs Band of Miwok Indians, H.R.2388, to take certain Federal land in the State of Washington into trust for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, and H.R.3620, to provide for the conveyance of certain property to the Southcentral Foundation located in Anchorage, Alaska; to be immediately followed by an oversight hearing to examine the President's proposed budget request for fiscal year 2027 for the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service.

Afternoon, everyone. Committee comes to order. We're meeting to consider 8 pieces of legislation this afternoon, 4 Senate bills and their House companion bills. These land-related measures will benefit tribes, tribal members, and surrounding communities. First, S.236 and H.R.

681 Would amend the Long-Term Leasing Act to authorize leases of up to 99 years for land in the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe Reservation and land held in trust for the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head. This would allow both federally recognized tribes in Massachusetts to lease trust lands to support tribal economic development. Second, S.1513 and H.R.2388, the Lower Elwha Kalalum Tribe Project Lands Restoration Act, would take approximately 1,082 acres on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington State, currently managed by the National Park Service into trust for the Lower Elwha Kalalum Tribe. This legislation would complete the restoration of the Elwha River ecosystem and fisheries and return stewardship of the river and cultural homelands to the tribe. Next on the agenda is my bill S.2098, the South Central Foundation Land Transfer Act of 2025, and its House companion bill H.R.3620, sponsored by Congressman Begich.

This legislation would convey approximately 3.372 acres of land from the Department of Health and Human Services to the Southcentral Foundation for use in connection with health and social services programs. This transfer would allow Southcentral Foundation to continue providing services through the Quyana Clubhouse and enable SCF to finance capital improvements on the property to expand outpatient programming. And finally, S. 2735 and H.R. 2302, The Shingle Springs Band Miwok Indian Lands Transfer Act, would take approximately 265 acres of BLM land into trust for the Shingle Springs Tribe. The tribe plans to use 185 acres of one parcel to build much-needed housing for tribal members, while the remaining acreage will be actively managed to reduce wildfire risk and preserve open space.

Each of these bills is important to the Native communities that would benefit from their enactment. So I want to thank each of the sponsors for their work on the measures, and I look forward to continuing to work together to advance these bills and see them signed into law this Congress. I'll now turn to Vice Chairman Schatz for his opening. Thank you, Chair Murkowski, for convening this business meeting today. These bills advance tribal sovereignty and self-determination through tribal decision-making over their own lands, resources, and services aligned with the needs of the members.

I urge my colleagues to vote to advance each of these bills and to work with me and the chairman to pass them out of the Senate and eventually into law. Thank you, Senator Schatz. We need 6 members physically present to report the legislation from the committee because we can't presume a quorum to report legislation at the business meeting. So I will ask members if they want to make a statement on any of the measures that we have in front of us. But before I do, I want to acknowledge Senator Armstrong.

He is— I think this is your first meeting of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, so we welcome you to the committee. We actually like working on these issues in front of us for the most part, so I'm glad that you're part of our team, and I look forward to working with you on these matters. Madam Chair. Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Chair Murkowski and Vice Chair Schatz, for holding this important business meeting.

Really appreciate the fact that you two continue to work together on these important policies. I appreciate S.1513, the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe Project Lands Restoration Act, being on the agenda. This is a very important part of our state, and the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe play an important role in a variety of issues in the state of Washington. S.1513 would, as you said, Madam Chair, transfer 1,000 acres of land outside the boundaries of the Olympic National Park to be held in trust for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe. These lands were originally acquired by the Park Service to remove two dams on the Elwha River and open up more than 70 miles of salmon habitat.

After decades of advocacy and the completion of the Elwha Ecosystem Restoration Project over 12 years ago, it was time to return this land to the Lower Elwha Tribe. Taking this land into trust boosts the habitat restoration efforts led by the Lower Elwha Tribe and federal agencies. It will help us in the recovery of all 5 species of Pacific salmon and other native fish and preserve the tribe's cultural and natural resources along the river. Passing this bill is an important action for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, and I look forward to getting it signed into legislation. Again, thank you to you and the chairman for including it on today's markup.

Thank you, Senator Cantwell. We do have 6 members present. Are there any other— before we move to take a vote, are there any other members that would wish to make a statement at this point in time? Okay. Let's move to the business portion of the meeting.

We do have a quorum present. On the agenda are 8 items numbered 1 through 8. You and your staff received copies of the agenda for this business meeting on Friday in accordance with committee rules. So I would ask unanimous consent to take up en bloc and adopt the 8 items on the agenda numbered 1 through 8. Is there objection?

Hearing no objection, the question is on agreeing to agenda items 1 through 8 en bloc. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed say nay. The ayes appear to have it.

The ayes do have it. The bills are agreed to, and that concludes our business. So I want to thank members for getting that out of the way quickly, and I'm pleased then to be able to move to the next phase of our meeting today, which is to welcome the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, Mr. Billy Kirkland, along with his Chief of Staff and Ms. Jillian Curtis. So we will conclude this portion of the meeting and move into our budget hearing.

Okay, we're back on the record here. We have an oversight hearing this afternoon to examine the President's budget request for Indian Affairs at the Department of Interior and for the Indian Health Service. For fiscal year 2027. So welcome to our witnesses today. Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, Mr. Billy Kirkland.

I will note, Assistant Secretary, this is your first appearance before the committee since your confirmation, so welcome to you. We have Mr. Clayton Fulton, who is the Chief of Staff for the Indian Health Service. He has assumed the delegable duties of the IHS Director. We appreciate that. Many of us would like to see the administration submit a formal nomination for director of Indian Health Service.

No offense to you, we appreciate your business and your interest in helping us work through so much of the business. And then we have Ms. Jillian Curtis, who is the director of the Office of Finance and Accounting at the Indian Health Service as well. As I mentioned to Senator Armstrong, this is a committee that works on some good issues and hopefully issues that we feel good about advancing. We've got a long bipartisan tradition of moving forward tribal priorities.

As we look to the budget in front of us, you know, we have a saying around here that the The executive proposes, the Congress disposes, and we're kind of in that same mode. As I look at the proposed FY27 budget for Indian Affairs programs, I've got questions as to whether or not it will meet the well-documented needs across Indian Country. You look to the proposed reduction of more than one-third to the operation of Indian programs, along with the elimination of programs ranging from welfare assistance to tribal community resilience, I look at that and I get concerned about it. So I want to start the hearing this afternoon, Assistant Secretary, with my acknowledgment and genuine thanks for your willingness to come to Alaska a couple weeks back to hear directly from tribal leaders, who were primarily from the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta. You can't get further from Washington, D.C. to places like Kipnuk and Kwigillingok.

You heard voices during that two-part field hearing about the disaster that had just profoundly devastated these communities and the environment around them.

In the tribal listening session that we had towards the end of the second day, I was particularly struck by words from Charlotte Nyagak from Chevak, and she said, "Finally someone from out there, not just from Alaska. Finally somebody is listening to us. We need this. We need this help." And, you know, it was just such powerful reminders that these folks are just asking to be heard. These communities are asking to be heard, to be respected, and to be partnered with as they confront some really challenging— some would say existential— existential threats to their villages and their way of life.

The federal support that you announced, Assistant Secretary, is an important first step in a longer, complicated process involving infrastructure hardening, pre-disaster mitigation, recovery, and in some cases relocation for affected villages. But for these efforts to succeed, Native communities must continue to have a seat at the table. Agencies like the BIA must remain engaged and responsive and really willing to listen directly to those who have been impacted. And these communities are telling us what they need. Our responsibility is to hear them out, to work alongside them, to ensure that they have support and resources that they need for them and their families.

So let's get to the budget here, or the proposed budget for IHS. Mr. Fulton, over the, the last year we saw the importance of advanced appropriations for the IHS long, prolonged government shutdown in 2025. I first introduced legislation to provide advanced appropriations for IHS back in 2013. We ultimately enacted that policy some 10 years later through the Interior Appropriations Bill. So I'm pleased to see the president's FY27 budget continue to— the advance appropriations.

We have heard significant concerns from tribal health leaders, particularly in Alaska, about the ongoing IHS realignment of the agency's structure and operations. At the same time, I'm keenly aware of the increasing pressure on the IHS budget from contract support costs and the 105L lease costs, all of which have to be balanced in the Interior appropriations. It's kind of hard for me. I'm not only the chairman on the authorizing side, I'm also chairman on the appropriating side, so I got to figure it out on both ends, and working with you, we need to address this. So to both of you, I look forward to hearing from you about how this proposed budget takes into account the priorities tribal leaders have raised across the country.

And if I can just take the privilege of the chair for just a moment before I turn the microphone over to Vice Chairman Schatz, I want to recognize a woman on my committee, Sarah McInnis. She's one of the professional staff members here at SCIA. She's a very important member of my team. This is Sarah's last week with us before she goes off to Harvard Law School in the fall. I've reminded her that there's a lot of time between now and the fall, but apparently she wants to have a little bit of a life before she does that.

But I want to thank her publicly for her hard work, for her professionalism, her dedication to doing good policy work for Indian Country. She came to the committee in 2023. She was a staff assistant, about as low on the totem pole as you can get there. She's leaving us as a professional staff member. And I think this is a reflection of both her talent and her teamwork.

She has helped us develop this Native Children's Commission draft. I'm very proud of the work that she and several others have put into it. But she's really played a very key role in keeping us organized, keeping us moving in the right track. And I just want to say, gunalchéesh. Thank you, Sarah.

You got a lot ahead of you, but thank you for what you've given to our committee. So congratulations to you. You're welcome. And I will now turn to Vice Chairman Schatz for his statement. Thank you, Chair Murkowski.

We're here to discuss the budget request for fiscal year '27, and I'm sad to say that it falls short of its trust and treaty obligations to American Indians, Native Hawaiians, and Alaska Natives. Just how short is a little unusual. It's true to say that a lot of times a budget comes in a little short and then we make up the difference, but this is a little different. The overall request for BIA is $1.8 billion, a $647 million decrease from fiscal '26. And while the request for the Indian Health Service increases funding and includes advanced appropriation, it cuts funding for key programs required by law and supported on a bipartisan basis, such as sanitation facilities for tribal homes, special diabetes programs for Indians, and scholarships for health professionals.

Across agencies, the administration's proposed budget is underfunding federal programs that carry out federal trust and treaty responsibilities to Native communities impacting all 575 tribes and millions of individuals across Indian Country. Here's what the budget actually does. It cuts BIE by 32% and BIA by 27%, over $1 billion total. It eliminates the widely successful Two-Way Program. It cuts funding for tribal 638 contracts and compacts despite claiming to support these authorities.

It guts tribal government and human services programs. It cuts funding for resource management and road maintenance. It completely defunds tribal colleges and universities except for two directly operated by the BIE. It eliminates several behavioral health programs. Let me put a finer point on it.

If enacted, these cuts would mean less self-determination and self-governance, fewer tribal police officers, and underfunded tribal courts, less funding for job training, roads, housing, teachers, schools, ICWA compliance, and keeping Native families together. Closure of tribal colleges and universities, continued gutting of BIA, BIE, and Interior regional offices, leaving tribes unable to even find the federal employee that could provide any help. And that's on top of the impacts that we've already seen from this administration over the year and a half. Tribes and tribal organizations are feeling the effects of agency reorganization and reduction in force efforts. Staffing levels across agencies, including IHS, are down.

Tribes have lost contacts and relationships they spent years forming as regional offices close. And tribes and Native Hawaiian organizations are facing uncertainty and instability as the federal grants that they rely upon are abruptly, and often without any notice at all, cancelled, delayed, or even transferred. It's disappointing, but let's remember that this administration proposed similar cuts last year and Congress rejected them on a bipartisan basis. So as a member of this committee and the Appropriations Committee, and being pretty good friends with the key appropriator and chair of the relevant committee on the Appropriations Committee, we are going to continue to fight against these cuts and protect federal funding, funding that the United States promised to provide through treaties, laws, and court decisions. We must demonstrate through our actions that the federal trust responsibility is not an inefficiency to be eliminated, but an enduring commitment that rises above partisan politics.

Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Schatz. We will now turn to our witnesses. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, welcome again to the committee. Appreciate you being here this afternoon. Once Assistant Secretary has made his remarks, Mr. Clayton Fulton, the Chief of Staff for the Indian Health Service of the Department of Health and Human Services, will provide his testimony.

And it's my understanding, Ms. Curtis, that you are providing backup? Got it. Got it. So, I appreciate that. Gentlemen, know that your full comments will be included as part of the record.

We'd ask that you try to Keep your remarks to about 5 minutes so that we have plenty of time for the Q&A. So, Assistant Secretary Kirkland, please proceed. And is that backup for both of us, or how's that work? Just— thank you.

Thanks again for the warm welcome, Chairman Murkowski and Vice Chairman Schatz. Appreciate y'all welcome having us here today, to the committee as well. My name is Billy Kirkland. I'm an enrolled member of the Navajo Nation and currently serving as the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior. And thank you for having us here today to testify on the President's fiscal year 2027 budget request.

I appreciate the committee's continued leadership and longstanding commitment to upholding the federal government's trust and treaty responsibility to tribal nations, American Indians, and Alaska Natives. The mission— the mission of Indian Affairs is to uphold our trust and treaty responsibility while approving the quality of life across Indian Country. We do this by strengthening government-to-government relationships, supporting tribal self-determination, and ensuring tribes have the tools and flexibility to necessarily serve their communities. In support of our mission, the FY27 budget request for Indian Affairs totals $2.8 billion across the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Bureau of Indian Education, and the Bureau of Trust Fund Administration. Since taking this role, I've traveled across the country meeting with tribal leaders and communities, and one message remains.

One message I constantly hear is that tribal nations want a federal partner that is responsive, accountable, and focused on results. Tribal leaders have emphasized the need for fewer delays, less bureaucracy, and a government that upholds its trust responsibility, not just in principle but in practice. This budget is intended to meet that expectation. Under President Trump's leadership, Interior is upholding its commitment to supporting Indian Country by allocating funds for energy development, public safety, and infrastructure. This budget will increase the efficiency at the department, cut red tape, and speed up approval processes for projects that improve Indian Country.

A major focus of this request is supporting tribal self-determination and stewardship of trust resources. The budget includes investments in trust natural resource programs, that support tribal energy development, active forest management, and stewardship of trust lands. Earlier this month, the department approved the nation's first-ever tribal resource agreement with the Southern Ute Indian Tribe, an important milestone that increases tribal authority over energy development decisions on tribal land while reducing unnecessary burdens. This agreement demonstrates how tribal nations can exercise greater control of their own resources while helping advocate, advance, reliable and domestic, domestic energy production. The budget continues to support tribal self-determination.

We are requesting funding for the Tribal Priority Allocations Program, which provides tribes the flexibility to set priorities based on their needs of their own communities. The budget also fully contracts support— the budget also fully funds contract support costs for payments for tribal leases under Section 105 of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act. Another key priority is improving trust services. For far too long, the probate backlog and outdated processes have delayed opportunities for families and limited the productive use of trust lands. This request includes resources to help modernize the probate operations, reduce the backlog, and improve the trust management system so these systems will work better in the future.

The sys— the safety and security of tribal communities is a core priority for the department. Earlier this month, the department launched a new Indian Country Violent Crime Task Force to strengthen coordination among tribal, federal, and state law enforcement partners and combat violent crimes, drug trafficking, and crimes against children in tribal communities. The budget continues to support tribal law enforcement detention centers and tribal court programs throughout the Office of Justice Services, while also strengthening investigative and public safety capacities across Indian Country. The budget is about carrying out core responsibilities in a more effective and accountable way. It focuses on strengthening tribal communities, improving service deliverables, supporting economic opportunities, and ensuring the federal government remains a reliable partner to tribal nations.

Thank you again for the opportunity for being here today. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Assistant Secretary. Mr. Fulton, welcome. Thank you, Chair Murkowski, Vice Chair Schatz, and members of the committee.

We appreciate the opportunity to come testify on the President's fiscal year 2027 budget for the Indian Health Service. I want to start by thanking this committee for its longstanding support. Over the past several years, the investments made by Congress have increased the IHS budget by 60% and strengthened healthcare across Indian Country. And that is progress that does matter. Our goal with the FY 2027 President's Budget is to build on that very foundation.

It advances our mission to raise the health of American Indians and Alaska Native communities and to fulfill the federal trust responsibility by supporting a system of over 600 facilities, 41 urban Indian organizations that serves nearly 3 million people annually. This budget is primarily guided by 3 priorities. Strengthening the future of the Indian Health Service, improving health outcomes, and supporting tribal self-governance. First, we're working to modernize the IHS system. Our current structure is not sustainable.

As more and more programs become operated by tribes, the Indian Health Service must evolve to meet the realities of what the system now demands of it. We are actively evaluating changes that streamline operations, that reduce administrative burdens, and improve accountability so that our providers can focus on patient care, the thing that really matters. Second, this budget prioritizes direct healthcare services. It includes $9.1 billion in discretionary funding and continues to advance— continues advanced appropriations to ensure stability of care and shutdowns just like the one the chair mentioned. We're investing in core elements that are needed to deliver that high-quality care.

That includes $84 million to staff and operate new and expanded facilities so they can operate as intended. That includes $265 million for current services to keep pace with inflation, population growth, and increasing workforce demands. Additionally, there's $5 million for increased oversight of IHS-operated hospitals and health clinics in order to improve our system-wide performance. Together, these investments ensure that care remains consistent and accessible in each and every tribal community. We're continuing to modernize our health information system.

The budget includes $287 million for electronic health record modernization. This is a critical investment to improve the way care is coordinated, the efficiency and long-term outcomes in our communities. At the same time, we're addressing the longstanding infrastructure needs. The budget includes an additional $5 million for healthcare facilities construction. And while 36 of the 42 priority list projects from the 1993 list, we still are completed, 6 still remain.

The Secretary has also committed a multi-year pledge of $1 billion in existing HHS resources to go to help us try to finish this 1993 priority construction list. Modern facilities are critical to delivering safe and high-quality care. As some of our facility engineers told me just yesterday, hospitals are our biggest patients, and we're constantly working to keep them afloat. Third, the budget strengthens tribal self-governance by fully funding contract support costs and tribal leases under Section 105L. These investments support tribal control as tribes continue to take on their health systems and tailor them in a way that is unique to their community and their needs.

The budget also includes initial funding for newly recognized tribes, including the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina, and for statutory required funding for the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. These resources ensure that access to care is there as services continue to expand. In alignment with the Secretary's Make America Healthy Again pledge, this budget supports efforts by proving outcomes and reducing disparities through programs such as our pilot— our Produce Pilot Prescription Program, which aims to reduce food insecurity, improve dietary health and health outcomes. Recent investments have contributed to measurable success, including an increase of 2.3 years in the average life expectancy for Alaska Natives and American Indians in 2022, with additional increases coming in 2023. Finally, I want to highlight the importance of the advanced appropriations.

This resource ensures that care continues uninterrupted despite things like our recent government shutdown. The FY 2027 budget builds on that success by requesting $5.6 billion in advanced appropriations for FY 28 to ensure that stable and predictable funding is available for tribes as they continue to plan. In closing, this budget is about delivering on fundamental commitments and by ensuring American Indians and Alaska Native communities have access to high-quality, reliable healthcare no matter where they are. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fulton.

All right, let's begin with our round of questioning. Assistant Secretary, I'm going to begin with you. Again, I really appreciated that you came to Alaska and you were participating in this field hearing on and the impact to our coastal communities and how they can be more resilient in the face of ongoing threats from erosion, flooding, permafrost thaw, failing infrastructure. It's all complicated. It's long in duration, and it's very costly.

But as I have mentioned— and I just came from giving a speech on the floor before this hearing, part of the challenge that I think we have is that you don't really have a lead agency when it comes to how we deal with these disasters and particularly as we're talking about tribal relocation. BIA is not formally designated as the federal lead. But I think more and more you're seeing tribes that are looking to BIA as the primary partner coordinating across these agencies and helping communities navigate. You kind of suggested at the hearing BIA and Indian Affairs are not specifically the lead, but they are the lead agency, so almost by default. So, I want to just have you share, having given some thought since that hearing to how the department and BIA are approaching this responsibility, what kind of a role you see BIA playing in perhaps coordinating long-term tribal resilience relocation efforts.

I mentioned in my comments the announcement coming from your department on the community— tribal community resilience. That helps, but we all know that there's more needed there. So can you kind of give me an update in connecting the dots about how we can address the challenges with lead federal agency and whether or not there's perhaps additional authorities or resources or interagency coordination we need to be looking to.

Thank you very much, Senator. I was excited to come up and visit Alaska, and I appreciate you and your staff for the hospitality, but also for the ability to show me a really real situation out there.

Talk about, uh, just having your eyes open. I don't know that, um, unfortunately there's a Christmas Carol that, um, it will never have the same meaning. Uh, it was— I don't know that you can explain it unless you heard that little girl talk about it. Um, and, and you're right, there are a number of, of agencies that are involved in the, the process in Alaska. I think first and foremost, um, mentioning whether or not there is a relocation.

Um, you know, there were— I believe the— it's like a kind of like a straw poll, right? The folks that I were able to speak to, I felt like the majority of those individuals did want to relocate. I'm sure there's some that maybe, uh, don't. So I think first and foremost, figuring out that process, and that's going to be a lengthy, involved process in which it's going to take more trips, more talking, more intimate conversations, and tough conversations with whether or not these individuals want to leave, in many cases, the only homes that their families have known for years on end. I think in, in the role that the BIA serves, we have a permanent footprint in Alaska.

We have a regional director there. We have an office there, not specifically that is in Bethel full-time, but that is able to get, able to get to Bethel, able to meet with the folks in those areas and in the regions where folks might want to relocate. I think that it only makes sense that the Indian Affairs and within the BIA that we're communicating with you and your staff, we're communicating with the committee as much as possible to figure out how we can not just maybe lead the effort currently and moving forward, but also build a team to best serve and make sure that any type of relocation that takes place or any type of rebuilding that takes we make sure that those families aren't forgotten. I think it's easy to respond to an emergency at the first step. It's easy to know that there was a tragedy.

I think the tough part is sticking around and making sure the job gets finished. Well, and that's where I want to make sure that we don't drop the ball, that we don't leave the impression that the disaster is now past and all is fine. You have displaced families, that may be displaced for a period of time. You mentioned community consensus. Solutions also need to be community-driven.

But I think we also need to recognize that even if you have people who want to go back, it may not be safe to go back. When you have land that, again, feels like you're walking on a waterbed or, or, or Jell-O pad is what it was described as, or the lands are so contaminated, it's not— it is just not safe for you and your family. So these are all— these are big decisions. And I appreciate what you're sharing, which is a desire to work with us, to work with impacted communities. But again, recognizing it's not just two communities that we're talking about.

It is what happens when the next disaster strikes. And I'm speaking about Alaska's example. But my colleague and friend here is, is still living with the trauma from the Lahaina fires. Um, that, that fire may be over, those people may in fact be returning to a place that they barely even recognize, but the trauma from that does not leave them. I'm over my time.

I will turn to Senator Shaw. Thank you, Chair. Thank you to the testifiers. I want to start with you, Mr. Fulton. Nice to meet you.

Um, so fiscal year '24 was the last year that IHS hired more employees than it lost. Um, during this administration, IHS has 1,200 fewer employees than it did 2 years ago. That's a 9% reduction. That's a 9% reduction on top of a 30% vacancy rate. And so the committee is a bit in the dark about this new hiring initiative and We've been trying to understand what you're up to, and I don't mean this to be provocative.

I actually just want to know what you're up to. I'll just observe that there are only so many things you can do in terms of recruiting techniques or processing procedures to increase the rate at which we hire people, because so much of it is structural. It's pay. It's whether we have the money. It's housing especially.

But I'm interested in what this is. And also, just as a more broad point, prerogatives on a bipartisan basis of this committee, like, we should know what it is. And it shouldn't be that we have to pull teeth to figure out what you're up to. We're supposed to do our oversight, but we have a pretty good tradition of being collaborative here. But we can't be collaborative if we don't know what you're up to.

So this is your opportunity to tell us what you're up to. Well, perfect. Well, thank you, Vice Chair. Appreciate the opportunity to share. As you mentioned, staffing is probably the biggest challenge that the Indian Health Service faces.

It's do we have the right people there to provide care? And that is a challenge system-wide, both at IHS Direct facilities and at our 638s. And a lot of that will not, as you mentioned, is systematic and will not be solved overnight. But our goal is to make a deliberate push to hire 3,300 new people into the agency this fiscal year. And while we have not hit 3,300 yet, we are seeing several good signs that indicate a genuine interest to come and serve in tribal communities.

We've received over 10,000 unique applicants who are interested in over 300 jobs that we currently have posted within the Indian Health Service. We've also seen— we have 930 of those— 922 of those already interviewed, selected, waiting to go through the process with a nearly 80% selection or acceptance rate on those tentative job offers. I'm going to interrupt you because we have 2.5 minutes. You are telling me the data is encouraging. Great.

So get us that data. I don't know what the regular pace of updates would be reasonable without burdening you with a terrible reporting requirement, but certainly it seems to me monthly, quarterly, whatever, so we know where you are at. That is number 1. Number 2 is I still haven't really heard— you characterize this as a reorganization, and this just seems like a hiring push. And it's fine if it's that, but I'm trying to figure out what you're doing differently and if we should be tracking that.

Perfect. So there are 2 different portions that you may be referring to. One is our hiring charge to get people on board today, which has been enabled because previously HR and hiring efforts were spread across the agency, done in localized area offices. Before I joined, that was unified under a single body. So we're able to work through that process more systematically.

And I think that's why we're seeing significantly higher onboard rates than what has maybe been the historical approach because of systematic changes. But then we are working on a broader realignment to make sure the agency is set up and structured in a way that is focused on the future. Got it. So with the permission of the chair, can we, can we make a request to you to reduce— just to summarize all of this in writing and not— don't make us wait 120 days for a letter. We just—.

And it doesn't have to be perfect. We just need to know what you're up to. And there's lots of times we're adversarial. This is not one of them. We just actually want to know what is going on over here.

Is it going well? Do we have visibility into this? If you've got all these— if you're meeting all your marks, awesome. Tell us. If not, we should know that too.

So thank you very much. We can do that, Chair.

Secretary Kirkland, good to see you.

The Secretary of the Interior testified in the House that Interior's budget cuts to tribal programs are cuts to programs that are ineffective and laden with overhead.

What are we talking about? Which programs are ineffective and laden with overhead?

Thank you for the question, Secretary. I'm sorry, thank you for the question, Senator. I don't know if that— I don't know if you can say the promotion or not, but, uh, appreciate it. And I appreciate again the time to, uh, to be a lateral move. Lateral move.

Maybe it depends on the agency. Um, and well, I guess the state as well. So I think you're— yeah. Maybe, maybe definitely lateral on your part.

The budget overall, the core of our budget requests are getting back to the fundamentals of BIA, making sure that we're providing services, making sure that we're being effective, making sure that we're utilizing our workforce development and also any duplicative programs. So there's a number that you've got, and I'm happy to follow up with you and your staff and get more specific, but off the top of my head, There's duplicative programs, loan programs that USDA offers. They're similar. SBA. I'm happy to dive as deep as you want.

I mean, I think that—. I mean, I love the idea of looking at programs that provide the same service and figuring out how they can work together, or maybe even they can be merged. But what you're proposing is a nearly 30% cut to BIA and BIE. And that's not like Businesses, when they do cutting like that, they make a 5-year plan. They account for the rate of inflation.

They do it in a way that where you can stay operational, right? And these are agencies that were falling massively short before all of this. And so if there's efficiency to find— one of the lessons, it seems to me, of DOJ is it didn't save any damn money. Right? Violence to the administrative state might be cathartic if you hate the administrative state, but if you actually want the place to work better, then you have to work a business plan.

And it can't just be decapitating agencies that don't have a political constituency that's powerful enough. And so work with us, because we're all for the efficiency too, and we're not sitting here defending a bureaucracy. We're defending these programs that provide services. So if they're doing it in a stupid way, in a duplicative way, in a heavy, too much overhead way, that's fine. Let's talk about that.

But a 30% cut and then just saying, well, the reason it's a 30% cut is because they're, they're top heavy. I'm gonna need a little evidence for that before I stipulate to it. Thank you. Sorry for going over overtime. Thank you, Senator.

Senator Armstrong.

Yeah, good afternoon and thank you all for joining us. Appreciate you all being here to offer your thoughts. This is a pretty dramatic change, and I'm all for dramatic change to the degree there's a plan. And I'm really here asking questions to understand today because I think you guys have got a lot of opportunity for improvement. It looks like you're going after that.

But I'll start with on the natural resources management piece of it because that's a very sizable cut in the space, and I wonder about exactly what you're going after there. And because if we sit here today, we've got a, you know, high oil prices. A lot of these leases in a lot of these areas have a big opportunity perhaps for a pickup in activity. And so I want to make sure I understand that we're not undermining the ability for the Indian Nation and the tribes to be able to see the resources developed on their lands. So maybe if you could talk— you mentioned a little bit in your opening comments about Southern Ute tribes.

So maybe, Assistant Secretary Kirkland, if you could hit on what's being done differently in that space, that'd be helpful. I think specifically, specifically, Senator, in the referencing of the Southern Utes, for— and the body would know better than I, but for over 20 years, there's been a system out there, a little tool that Congress came up with called the TERRA, which is the Tribal Energy Resource Agreement that allows and gives tribes specifically greater control over their own resources, their ability to manage those better, their ability to negotiate, whether it's lease or negotiate with industry providers and not having to work through us. So we were able to sign the first ever TARA agreement with the Southern Ute, giving them more control over their energy production. And that's something that we want to do more of. We want to do more approving those.

We also want to do more efficiency in general, and that's something that, you know, we talk about reorganization or we talk about workforce efficiencies. The BIA, there's a lot of dedicated people in there. There's a lot of folks that have been there for a long time, but the management layers and the organization structure is the same today as it was in the '70s. So you do have a system where you've got, in some instances, for every one manager, you've got one supervisor. So you've got essentially a supervisor managing one person.

Um, so there's a lot of, uh, a lot of look that needs to be taken there. There's a lot of efficiencies that need to be worked out. And once again, I think that, uh, Senator, I've never met you, I haven't had the pleasure, but, uh, congratulations on your appointment. Thank you. I'm happy to share my contact information with you if you've got questions.

You can to directly reach out. I know that multiple senators on the, on the committee have reached out directly, and directly either to our staff or to me personally, and find that I'm— I like to think that I'm fairly, uh, responsive, and I'm happy to continue any type of conversation at any point that you, you have, or any questions you want to learn more about, or any topics that you are more interested in. Okay, and so maybe just a little— so you're expanding the ability for the tribes to take over the management of stuff that used to be done by BIA, and that's allowing reduce your organization costs. Yes, sir. And, and not just, not just cost but efficiencies.

They're, they're no longer having to go to the regional office for those answers that, that they have in the past. Yeah, I'm, I'm familiar with that effort, and I think that's a fantastic idea. Is that being spread rapidly to other, uh, tribes as well? Well, we're working on that, sir. Uh, first and foremost, we're trying to figure out what took so long in the first place.

Why did it take 20-plus years to have one of these resource agreements signed and enacted. You know, the best form of advertisement, everybody thinks oftentimes, especially this being a political setting, is television. You see the flashy campaign commercials or whatever it may be, but the real, the best form of advertising is mouth-to-mouth, person-to-person, in this case, tribe-to-tribe. And the Southern Utes, they're, I mean, they're going door-to-door telling people and telling other tribes about how easy we were to work with to get this done, how much we helped. And, you know, they're evangelists of this now.

They want other tribes to come into this and make one and join in the TERRA. And they've been our biggest champions. And we've gotten a number of tribes since the TERRA signing 2 weeks ago that are very interested in working on joining the Southern Ute in the process. That's great news. And I think, you know, certainly Oklahoma has very sophisticated sophisticated tribes that are very capable of managing their own affairs in that regard.

So that's a great example of opportunities to reduce costs. Thank you. I yield my time. Well done as an appointed senator. You landed right on the moment.

We're all still working on that. Senator Smith.

Thank you to the chair and to the vice chair, and welcome to our panelists today. Vice chair, I'd like to start by recognizing Chair DesChamp of the Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior. Lake Superior Chippewa Gitchi-igami, who is in the audience today. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for joining us.

And I have— will have many questions which I will submit to— for the record regarding the President's budget, though I want to associate myself with the Vice Chair's remarks and questions on what's going on and what the plans are. But today I'm actually going to focus my questions to Assistant Secretary Kirtland this afternoon. Welcome. It's good to see you again. Assistant Secretary.

So Assistant Secretary Kirtland, in your role, you're responsible for supporting the Secretary of the Interior in fulfilling this country's trust responsibilities to federal recognized Indian tribes and maintaining those government-to-government relationships between the federal government and Indian tribes on behalf of the Department of Interior. Is that correct, right?

Yes, Senator. Thank you. And do you believe that the department is obligated to consult with tribal nations prior to taking any actions that affect those treaty rights?

Yes, Senator. Thank you, thank you. I'm not trying to trick you here or catch you in any way. I apologize, I was making sure the talk button was on. I wasn't trying to trick you.

That's okay, I just wanted to make sure. So you may know that in January of this year, the Department of the Interior took action to overturn some critical protections for the pristine boundary waters in northeastern Minnesota. These protections were put in place because the area is vital to the health and traditional cultural values and subsistence-based lives of tribal nations, particularly the, the 1854 treaty tribes. And wild rice, mahnomen, is particularly susceptible to the impacts of mining and mining pollution, and that is why these protections were put in place. And then earlier this year, this— the department issued a statement of administration policy recommending the passage of House Joint Resolution 140 relating specifically to this moratorium on mining in the Boundary Waters.

Were you aware of that before it happened? Does that sound familiar to you at all? Thanks. Thank you, sir. No, I was not reached out to by any tribe about that particular matter or, or the department.

You're not aware of what the department didn't reach out to you? I'm not aware of any tribe reaching out to the department either. No, ma'am. Okay. Well, so what I'm trying to understand here is that this statement of administrative— excuse me, the statement of administration policy would directly affect treaty rights and therefore seems to me, seems to me according to the law that tribal consultation would be required.

And so this is how it unfolded. There was this statement of administration policy, then the House the same day passed a congressional resolution overturning this moratorium on mineral leases. It was unprecedented use of the congressional review process, I might add, something that was great concern to many on both sides of the aisle. And then you have the Department of the Interior proceeding. So my question is, are you aware of any formal consultation that has happened as the Department of the Interior is taking these steps that has a direct impact on the treaty rights of tribes in the ceded territory?

As stated before, Senator, I was not reached out to by a tribe for the consultation process or have knowledge of them making, or any tribe making a request for that. So is it your view that the federal government only needs to do formal consultation if a tribe specifically reaches out to the Department of Interior? It's my view that we want to take that consultation process as seriously as possible, and when a tribe reaches out about an issue that they have, we want to follow up on that and make sure that our all due diligence is given. But do you see that you have a responsibility if the administration, if the department is taking an action that affects treaty rights? Don't you agree that the department has a responsibility to do consultation, that it's not just a reactive stance, it is a responsibility to make sure that that consultation happens?

Senator, I'm happy to look into that and find out more information on that, and I encourage you to reach out in the future as well when you feel that there is a consultation that needs to be looked into or hasn't happened or needs to be enacted? Well, so, I mean, it is my view, and I think that this is backed up by the law, and this is certainly the view of many in Indian Country, that the Trump administration, the Department of the Interior, did not do the consultation that's required, and in fact, they disrespected the government-to-government responsibility that is owed to these Treaty of La Pointe tribes. And as a result, this has happened without any consultation to date. So you can help fix this, um, by committing to me that you will help make sure that these federal agencies involved in these leases, as this process goes forward— it will be a lengthy and expensive process— help make sure that as this process proceeds, that there will be appropriate tribal consultation.

Senator, we'll commit to always looking for looking to follow the law on all aspects of the trust relationship, including consultations. Well, I will follow up with you on this, and I will look forward to doing all the work that I can to make sure that those, those consultation responsibilities are fulfilled. But I, I find it sort of stunning to hear you say that you were sort of waiting for a phone call from somebody to be reminded that the department has a legal responsibility to do consultation. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Senator Smith.

Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, panelists. Thank you all for being here. Not that you really had a choice, but thank you.

Let me, Assistant Secretary Kirkland, start with you. I understand there are reductions at BIA of about 500 staff. Is that correct?

Senator, I couldn't give you the exact number of reductions of staff. What I can tell you is that we've currently enacted and approved the hiring of 400 staffers in critical positions that we're currently advertising on USAJOBS and working to fill those outwardly facing critical roles at the—. And what are the critical roles? Are some of them include BIA officers? Some of it from law enforcement officers to regional offices to superintendent's offices.

Would you be willing to give us a breakdown of that? That would be very helpful. If this budget isn't cutting staff, which doesn't sound like it should be if you're actually hiring 400, but I would like to know, and here's why. I am hearing not just from my tribes in Nevada, but our law enforcement as well, that BIA officers are far and few between. They're just understaffed.

And I know some of these officers, they're— they want to do right, but they are understaffed. And the way it's broken down into regions, it is very hard to get a response into Nevada. And, and if you've been to Nevada, and Assistant Secretary, I don't know if you've been to our rural areas, but if you have, you will understand that many of the rural areas where our tribes live, mainly desert not a lot of interconnectivity, and you could drive for hours before you actually see somebody. And so I need a response time that is immediate, especially if there's tribal crime happening, to keep our community safe. And so I want a commitment.

If you're willing to help me address this issue, particularly as it pertains in Nevada with a lack of BIA officers and more staffing that is necessary for our law enforcement in Nevada and in that region, would you be committed to working with me and provide that document or that information? Yes, Senator. Unfortunately, it's also not a problem that's unique to Nevada specifically. So that's something that we're working on all across. Yeah, I'm from Nevada though.

That's my—. No, I know that. So that's what I'm getting a commitment from you is I want to see what you're doing specifically from Nevada because I've been hearing about this as long as I've lived there and I just— we have to address it. And I think if you can address it in Nevada, you probably will be able to address it in other places as well. And not only happy to get you the information you request.

I know there's a lot of, uh, y'all are very busy here with, with votes, and oftentimes when we're in recess, we're back in the state or in the district, specifically coming up November. I understand that, but we're— we'll be here all the time. Good. So I'll be here, I'll be there, and I'll be waiting for your call. I'm going to move on though because I only have so much time.

Let us know when you—. During your nomination hearing last year, I asked you about the detention funding issue facing tribes in Nevada with the 6th 38 contracts. And quite honestly, at that time, and I think the chairman and the ranking member are very aware of this, they had the rug pulled out from under them when their regional BIA office suddenly reinterpreted their contracts and was going to force them to pay for detention services for the pretrial detainees. This is before you even got there. And this is why I asked you at your hearing, your nomination hearing, if you would promised to work with me to address this issue and ensure that open lines of communication are opening.

I am still hearing from our tribal law enforcement and tribes that this is an issue for them and has not been addressed. Can you give me an update at all on this issue? We've got— I've got staff behind me that are making a note of that right now, and as soon as we get out of here, we're happy to give you an update. Please do. I appreciate that.

And I would also like, as part of this discussion, and maybe it is time that we reevaluate the funding levels that tribes with 638 law enforcement contracts are entitled to, given population growth, price increases, and other costs. I would be interested in addressing that as well. So if you want to make a time, come to my office, sit down, talk with me about all of the above, I will definitely make myself available. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.

Senator Daines. Chair Mikulski, thank you. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, thanks for your testimony earlier. Going back to your confirmation hearing, we discussed Montana's final Indian water settlement, the Northern Montana Water Security Act. You mentioned, in fact, memories of hauling water across the Navajo Nation with your grandmother.

You understand the challenges and the necessity of securing water rights and access in Indian Country. You also committed to working with Congress to ensure the federal government upholds its trust and treaty obligations, which includes protecting water rights. And I want to make sure we hold each other accountable to that. During President Trump's first term, his support was instrumental in enacting the Montana Water Rights Protection Act to settle the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribe's water claims. These are century-long fights, as you well know.

Some of the toughest fights are water fights, and some of the most interesting fights, it gets into treaty rights as well. They recently reached a major milestone. This is going back to the Salish Kootenai. Compact that we— that the Trump administration, Trump 45, got done. The president signed.

We finally got the Montana Water Court's final order approving that compact last week. This is a big win for our farmers, our ranchers, the tribe, and the federal government, and for President Trump. This action by Congress and the court now brings certainty to all water users in the region. There's a lot of false information spread up in that part of our state. It's just not true.

And we're grateful working with President Trump. We got this thing signed and the court just affirmed it in Montana again last week. Had we not gotten this done, the alternative was almost unthinkable. Without a settlement, the majority of the water right claims in Montana would have been litigated over several decades, and that's thousands of water right claims. And as we know, the courts are increasingly sympathetic to the treaty rights that oftentimes predate statehood.

Non-tribal water users would have faced unprecedented uncertainty and possibly seen diminished access, and would have cost the federal government an untold amount of money. Now, the Fort Belknap, alongside the many farmers and ranchers who rely on the Milk River to make a living, want to bring the same certainty to their region. It's the last water compact to be settled in Montana history. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, do you support the idea of settling rather than litigating Indian water rights claims? Senator, the department supports the idea of, uh, of settling any and all water settlement claims that we can.

And we've seen if we don't settle, obviously very expensive. That's a lot of lawyers wear really nice suits. So it's a lot of legal fees. And then the uncertainty and losing those water rights if the litigation proceeds, the risk of losing water rights for our economy in a place like Montana is very real. And it's significant.

And there's a clear blueprint to getting this done. I want to work with the Trump administration to build off these past models of success. None of these are ever easy. I experienced that myself under Trump 45, like the Salish-Kootenai, CSKT Compact we call it, and to move forward, enact the Northern Montana Water Security Act. One thing that's sometimes lost in translation here in Washington in a place that gets 41 inches of rain every year.

I didn't realize what rain was all about. I know Senator Murkowski sees a lot in Alaska, and we envy her precipitation, but they get more rain here than in Seattle by a little, by a small amount, because when it rains here, it rains an inch or two at a time, it seems. Where we are battling in this last water right claim, in these last tribal rights, is an area of our state that gets 12 to 15 inches of rain a year. It's a semi-arid environment, and that's why water is so critical to keep things going. My distinguished colleague here from Oklahoma can nod his head because they know what it means to live in a state that doesn't get a whole lot of rain.

Montana similarly is a state that doesn't get a whole lot of rain in most of it. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, times are the essence on the issue. Can we work together and push to get this done? This year. Senator, I know you just recently spoke to Secretary Bergum on this as well, and I'll echo him that we'll continue to work with you and the committee on settling all inactive water rights.

We're going to name a town in Montana called Bergumville if we get this done. I'll tell the Secretary that. I'm just going to ask for a street. Okay, we'll give you a street, we'll give you a post office if you need it. Just let me know.

This is about water security for tribal and non-tribal water users. It's for infrastructure for Montana agriculture and certainty for future generations of Montanans. These are legacy kind of, of decisions we can make and move forward and settle it and not put this on the backs of our children and grandchildren. The bill I have ensures long-term stability across the High Line of Montana and upholds the federal government's trust responsibility. It is past time to get this done.

Thank you for your comments, Secretary Kirkland. Thank you, Senator Daines. Senator Lujan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Kirkland, at your confirmation hearing last year, we discussed the importance of Indian water rights settlements, and I was critical that the Trump administration proposed $0 for the Navajo Gallup water supply project.

Do you recall that?

Yes, Senator. After that, I worked with my colleagues, and I want to thank every one of my Republican colleagues and Democratic colleagues and the staff, because since the administration didn't provide any dollars, we were able to work. We got $55 million in congressionally directed spending for the project. We worked to raise the cap on Reclamation water settlement funds to access an additional $120 million. And as you know, and I shared with you, failure to do so would have meant the first Indian water rights settlement to fail.

And I know what everyone else knows— once there's a first, there'll be a second. Mr. Kirkland, do you know how much money was proposed in President Trump's budget for the Navajo Gallup Water Supply Project for FY27?

Senator, I'm happy to, uh, and I know that, uh, my colleague Scott Cameron recently came up and and spoke to you as well. And you guys, you guys talked about— I'm actually very here to talk about Indian Affairs budget and the budget request. Mr. Secretary, do you, do you advise the Secretary or the President when it comes to your work and the priorities that you have for tribes across the country budgetarily? Senator, we— I give the President and the Secretary advice on, on issues affecting the Native communities. And I I'd really like to work with you.

I'd really like to work well on the water. Mr. Secretary, do water settlements affect Native communities? Yes. And I hope that you look at this on the Wallapai water settlement. We're here to talk about water settlements.

We just had a wonderful conversation with this. Let's talk about my colleague from Montana. Dollars that we put in the budget that we're looking to. Okay. Because you mentioned it, Senator.

You said that if we let one go, you're claiming they're all going to go. Madam, Madam Chair, I just think submit the budget into the record if it's not already in there. There's zero dollars for this project again. So I'm going to come visit with you in your office. I'm going to visit with your staff in your office.

I'm going to go visit with the Dems in their office. I'm going to go visit with Chairman Cole, everyone that we can. Since the president didn't put any money in— and Mr. Secretary, please, for this water settlement now in Montana, let's get the money for it. Let's get the money for all of these and let's get it done. This is something we all agree on.

Democrats and Republicans across the country.

Mr. Secretary, how many times have you sat with the working group on Indian water rights settlements, which you're a member of? I've met with the group a number of times, as well as multiple tribes on specific water settlements and water rights. And I'd just like to also appreciate and work with you to make sure that we fully fund the Hualapai water settlement as well. I think they've received $150,000 up to this point of nearly $330 million that are due the 2029. I hope that we don't see any water settlements fail and that we can work together, get the technical support required.

Mr. Fulton, I want to thank you. You recently visited New Mexico and there's a great picture of you here visiting with some of the leadership from the Navajo Nation, the Department of Health. Um, there's two issues I want to raise. One, um, as you know, one of the elevators isn't working over that way, and I had received a response from someone on your staff on Monday that said patient safety is a priority, that they would work on this as quickly as possible. But they highlighted in the email that one elevator is not sufficient to fully support patient care needs in the building.

What I'd like is a full briefing for this committee, for myself, timeline when that's going to be done, if it's about patient safety, things of that nature. And then second, if I could also ask for a timely briefing on the timeline associated with the Gallup Indian Medical Center, because as you're aware, the project is not on this list again for projects this year. So this is the second time under this administration that the project's been jumped over and If I'm not mistaken, the— all the coverage from the meeting was all positive and said that this was a priority project. We'd get it done. It wouldn't be skipped again.

But if we could just get some information where it is on the list, how we can get this done and things of that nature, I'd certainly appreciate it, sir. I'd be more than happy to. I look forward to that. Mr. Kirkland, I was also told that in addition to sitting on the working group, you oversee the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Bureau of Indian Affairs Education, Bureau of Indian Affairs Trust Funds Administration. Serving hundreds of federally recognized tribes across the country, that your responsibilities as Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs, in addition to that, that Secretary Bergum also nominated you to serve concurrently as Associate Commissioner of the National Indian Gaming Commission.

Is that correct? I've been nominated to serve as a vice associate. Yes, sir. Yes. So this is a position with its own distinct statutory mandate, its own oversight responsibilities, its own docket of decisions affecting tribal sovereignty and economic development.

Is it fair to say they're both full-time jobs? I think it's fair to say, sir, that we had an unprecedented resignation that has put a lot of tribes and tribal economies and economic development at risk, and we want to make sure that gap is as full as possible, and we want to make sure that duties that the committee is responsible for can take place, and we're going to look and look to hire and fill those, those vacancies as soon as possible. In the meantime, I will ensure that things like contracts can be put in place, management contracts and other, other operations that the committee can fully operate. Mr. Secretary, Madam Chair, what I'm asking is if you can get a letter to this committee soon, not 120 days, telling us how you're going to do both jobs. And how the responsibilities you have as Deputy Secretary of Indian Affairs are not going to fall aside.

And one of the concerns that I have is on one side, your responsibilities are to advocate for the tribes. And on the other hand, this administration has taken a different position on prediction markets. The tribes have been suing, man. You're at odds here. I don't know how you're going to do it.

I look forward to reading about it. And having certainty that your primary job as Deputy Secretary of Indian Affairs, you're going to live up to those trust responsibilities. So I very much look forward to learning about this and seeing how these efficiencies can be created. I thank you for the time, Madam Chair. I'm sure you do, Senator.

Thank you. Thank you, Senator. And know that on the water settlements, not only do I hear you, we've had good conversation. And you're right, whether it's water settlements that Senator Daines is concerned about or coming out of your state of New Mexico, These— we have got to— we have got to address them. Lots of work goes into getting to the settlement, but the settlement is nothing more than a piece of paper if we are not actually working to put those dollars in.

So know that we'll be in contact there. We'll go into a second round here, hopefully not too many more. Assistant Secretary, you mentioned probate and the effort that the administration is doing to modernize what we can do within the probate accounts to help reduce the backlog. I've talked to you about it. I've talked to Secretary Bergum about it.

Everybody is giving their commitment. I know that we're moving forward with this effort, but My, my, um, my concern is that we're, we're hearing that all this is taking place, but I'm not seeing that we've actually done anything yet to help reduce that, uh, that backlog, um, and to, to actually get these probates completed for these families. So I, I would just ask for an accounting from you and your team about just how you anticipate this backlog to be addressed. I, I, I— you know what you're trying to do with the modernization. You know how long it's going to take to get these systems in place, recognizing the 47,000 cases that are pending across the country.

Can you— I want an estimate as to how long you're anticipating it's going to be to catch up with your backlog so that as a committee we can kind of be— we can be monitoring this. Because right now what I'm getting is an assurance that don't worry, we're working to update our systems. But what is worrying me is the same constituents are coming to me and saying, "We've heard that, but we still don't know where we are in our case. I'm told we're gonna have this, this dashboard type of an approach where people can check in and, and follow their cases. That's good, but can you give us more metrics in terms of when people can expect this and then to actually see us moving through their, their respective cases?" Thank you for the question, Senator.

And I, I look— you're right to be concerned. Um, you've been on the committee for a while, and this isn't a new, new problem. So you've heard— I'm sure you've heard time and time again individuals come up here and say, we're going to fix the problem, we've got this under control. So until you actually see numbers moving, you're, you're very, you're very right to be concerned. We're concerned.

That's why it was made a priority. Unfortunately, in order to actually work at, at, uh, chopping the problem down one at a time. We had to figure out actually how in-depth the problem was, and that took up for a while for us to get our hands on. I believe a couple years ago in front of this committee, Indian Affairs actually said it was going to take $60+ million and 5 to 7 years to get their hands wrapped around the problem and the backlog altogether. We are in the steps in the process of having that understanding, the full scope of the problem.

By the end of July. So we're going to be able to know what cases are where in the process, what cases are missing what, what families maybe only have one document that is missing from their probate case in order to close it. You mentioned 47,000 cases that are backed up, which is a very high number. More— even more astounding is that's upwards of $770 million of American money, of Native Alaska Natives and Native Americans that money they could be, they could have that they need today, whether that's to buy a home or to, you know, invest in their children's education. Um, you mentioned you're still talking to people that are having issues.

I never thought it was possible that I, I actually met individuals who, um, they, they, they were working on, look, waiting for probates of their dead family members that were still waiting on, on probate. We got this a generational problem. Um, for the first time ever, It's almost unconscionable that in an age and a system where you can order, you could order the committee dinner on an app, you can't, these individuals can't look and track their probate cases. So not only now can probate, will probate cases be able to be tracked, they're going to be able to submit these probate cases online or via their phone. This was something that was, my first trip to Alaska was last month.

Well, but again, it's one thing to be able to submit them, but if it's not going anywhere, and that's been the problem, we can submit them by way of a paper copy and it goes in—. When those submissions come in via paper copy, it's also, it's still antiquated and that's how it's being tracked. That's how everything's being looked at. So you've got a system where, you know, we might have a regional office or an agency and they're going through a filing system to find out what's there. By the end of July, through the new technology, through AI, through the folks that are being trained on the processes right now, they're going to be able to look in Alaska.

They're going to be able to say, okay, let's reach out to Senator Murkowski's team in Alaska and let her know that of those 7,000 probate cases that are backlogged, 5,000 of them are missing one document. This is the one document they're missing. Let's work with those individuals in the state to ensure that that one document can be—. And this is where, and I, I'm going to interrupt because my time has expired and I want to ask others if they have any questions. But it's one thing to have assurances that a system is coming online.

But if you are the family who has lost an elder and the family home was in his name and there is no— the spouse has deceased and the property goes into probate.

The family members have to vacate that home. That family home then is padlocked. The windows are boarded shut. And in villages where you have no housing, you have a perfectly good housing that is then left to the elements. Pipes freeze.

Things get— you can lose your homes. And so it's more than just the money. It's losing the opportunity to have a family home. So I've been pressing on this and raising it with every administration official so that it is reinforced that it's not just the high-tech world we want to know that these promises of modernization are coming, because right now nobody has seen the the promise materialize into— we now— the family now has the keys to the home again. The family now has a few dollars that they are able to pay off something that they have been waiting for.

So know that this continues to be a very, very keen priority of mine and of many on the subcommittee— on the full committee here. I'm going to turn to Senator Hoeven and then I'll have I have a couple more questions I haven't directed anything to you yet, Mr. Fulton, so you are not off the hook yet.

All right. I will let him look at his notes here. Let me ask you about sanitation funding cuts.

The proposal is about $93 million below the FY '26 enacted, and I get the comments there that unobligated Infrastructure and Jobs Act funding remains available. But as one who was instrumental in those IJA funds, that funding was intended to supplement base funding, not to replace it. So I know you're working hard, you're getting sanitation grants out. Let me tell you, the folks in Teller were super excited about the announcements there in Teller. They love the fact that you were out there.

This is going to be transformational, and I think you know it. But you also know that there's huge unmet needs here. It just— it's still troubling when I go out to so many of these villages, and, you know, we're talking about We're talking about communities that are still relying on honey buckets, haul wagons, and this again is public safety, public health when you don't have clean water and clean wastewater systems. So just give me the rationale. Maybe you hate it and you really can't give me a good reason for for why you would reduce base funding.

Um, but I also need to know how you're going to continue making good progress on unmet sanitation needs, um, once IJA funding is gone, because that's— there's a cliff here. Believe me, I know all about the cliff. Um, but if you're going to use it to help get you through this funding cycle. What do you do next year when we don't have that? Because I can't go back to communities and say, well, we were making some progress, Keller got money, but the rest of you folks, um, that funding pipeline is not there.

So can you speak to the sanitation funding? Well, thank you, Senator. You hit on a great point. There are sanitation facility needs across Indian Country that are definitely challenging. Um, it fundamentally comes down to the balancing act of— in a tight budget environment, how do we prioritize?

This was a prime opportunity to really invest in things that would revolutionize direct patient care. And so our priority at this time—. Let me just challenge you a little bit on that, because direct patient care— so I'm now sick and you're going to take care of me. Keep me from getting sick by making sure that I have sanitary conditions in my village, that I am able to wash my, my, my hands, um, you know, bathe my kids. Uh, it's kind of the basic thing.

So I get what you're saying, that we want to take care of people who get sick, but I think it's also really basic human need that we have clean water. There are definitely significant challenges. Um, as you know, the goal was to continue to work on our 2,000-plus water sanitation projects that we have under IAJ currently, which includes $1.9 billion that's gone to Alaska over the last 4 years, and continue that process forward. But we know this is an issue that is important to members of this committee, important tribes, and we're happy to provide any technical assistance we can with regards to this topic. Well, I, I think we want more than technical assistance, um, because as, as I speak of this issue.

You know, my colleague from New Mexico has left the committee here this afternoon. But I hear that in many of the reservations they are faced with the same challenges that we may have when it comes to running water and clean basic water and wastewater issues. I hear you saying you made priorities. I know you've got to defend what is put in front of you, but know that from this senator's perspective, I don't think that we can go backwards. I don't think that we should be looking to, to the one-time funding opportunities that we put into place with IJA as what is going to carry us over.

Those were designed to supplement because we were in such a hole that we needed to put billions of dollars towards it. We've made good headway, but we can't— we can't use that as the excuse not to continue a robust base funding for something as basic as clean water and wastewater. Okay, you're now teed up. Okay, thank you, Madam Chairman. Secretary Kirkland, in 2020, we— I worked with Chairman Murkowski and others, and we put in place the funding for the Advanced Training Center at Camp Grafton in Devils Lake to help provide training for BIA law enforcement officers, because in the upper middle— across the upper Midwest particularly, but throughout Indian Country, we are not filling our BIA law enforcement positions.

Uh, in 2021, uh, or by 2021 already, the Advanced Training Center was providing training to over 3,000 law enforcement personnel on an annual basis. And in two— last year, for this year, we secured $2 million to support improving infrastructure there. And most recently— and actually I'm working on getting $3 million this year, it was $2 million last year.

Also this month, Secretary Bergum signed a secretarial order implementing additional basic training options for police and corrections officers at the Indian Police Academy's Advanced Training center at Camp Grafton. Please provide me with an update on how the department plans to use these new funds, as well as that executive order to support the operations and physical infrastructure at Camp Grafton and implement the basic training. Well, sir, as Senator, as you're well aware of, Anteja, New Mexico is quite a long ways away from your neck of the woods. I mean, Antecia is a long way from Antecia, and there's not a lot there. And it's tough oftentimes for officers and folks that want to be BIA law enforcement officers to get there and be away from their families.

So we're very excited about the progress that's been made at Camp Grafton. As a matter of fact, just recently, last month I believe, we were able to hold the first graduation of our correction officers They're going to be going to tribal communities from Camp Grafton. In June or late, late June, early July, we'll be holding the first police officers training, tribal police officers training there. So we'll have a number of officers that are going to be going to either the Office of Justice Services within the BIA or will be going to tribal law enforcement throughout Indian Country to serve and protect Indian Country. That graduation will be in September.

So first and foremost, we're looking to make sure it's utilized to help train officers and do it in a way that we can have those officers trained close— places that are closer to the home, making it easy for them and for the states to get law enforcement that they need. Right. And so that's basic training in addition to the advanced training so we can get more officers into this slot and continue to train them while they're, you know, doing the job, but get these slots filled across the country where we need them so badly. Yes, sir, and we're going to continue. I know we're going to continue to work on that track for you as well.

Are there any specific facilities issues you want to bring up or mention? Um, just in general, we're going to work on everything. We want to make sure that these are the best trained officers that are available, they can get to their communities and best serve and protect. We appreciate very much your work on it, and it fills a vital need just in terms of security for reservations across the country. So thank you for that.

And then also, I work with Secretary Cortez Masto, and we passed the Badges Act to to again try to expedite our ability to get people into a whole variety of law enforcement officers in Indian Country. Across the country, this helps every tribe across the country in terms of safety, security, and law enforcement. That hasn't passed the House yet. Any thoughts that you can offer in terms of support maybe that can be provided by you and others that would help us advance the bill through the House so we get it in place. First, Senator, I'd like to thank you for your work on the Badge Act.

At Indian Affairs, we're going to be supportive of any and all legislation that helps better serve and protect Indian Country, but also that helps make it easier to hire tribal police officers and OJS officers. Well, that's it. It just will expedite that hiring process. So again, it's about getting law enforcement officials in these vacant slots, and vitally important. And then the last thing I want to ask you about is there's a road on Spirit Lake Reservation.

It's called the Tete Topa Four Winds High School Road. It's, it's to the tribal school there, which by the way is a real power in basketball in our state. They're unbelievable. But it's not eligible for BIA road maintenance because it has not been added to the BIA Road inventory. So, uh, how do you plan to consult with Spirit Lake Tribe to get this thing on the inventory and make sure that, uh, those young people can get to that school not only for their studies but also for those great basketball players so they can get back and forth to all their tournaments and continue to be very successful?

How far they make it this year in the state tournament? I think they made it— they didn't win it this year, but they do fairly regularly, and they're always good. Well, maybe if we can work on that road, they can win it next year. I know currently we're— we manage and oversee about 30,000 miles of road at the BIA, and it's a problem everywhere, this road maintenance. You know, lots of tribal schools and tribal communities, they don't necessarily have snow days, they have muddy road days.

They have days where buses can't get down the road. So this is a— I know this is a priority for you and for tribal communities across the across any country, and we're happy to work with yourself and the tribe to get this road on the list. Yeah, uh, appreciate it. And I know it's challenging with all these roads, but you know, this is for high school kids and their safety and everything, so it's really important. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Okay, uh, looks to me like there's no one else to ask any questions, so I think we'll go ahead and gavel out unless there's— is there anything else that any of the three of you wanted to put on the record regarding any of the, uh, questions and, uh, testimony that you gave today.

Mr. Fulham. Thank you, Senator. Um, one thing I would like to provide a little clarity on were with regards to a few of the programs that in some of the opening statements were described as being cut, specifically our scholarships, health professions, um, etc. There are a few of those programs that show decreases in the budget However, those are not— were not intended as policy-level decisions. When the— when the budget was put together in December, in the fall, there had not yet been an FY 2026 budget.

So we had proposed increases for several of those programs, but Congress beat us to the punch and, uh, funded them more than what we had even planned. So that was one aspect that was brought up earlier that I think would be useful for the record in the committee. Very good. Anything else? Just thank you for your longstanding support.

Thank you. I'd like to echo Senator as well. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the committee staff's work. I know that y'all put in a lot of hours to make your bosses look good up here with questions and research.

Thank you, Secretary. Ms. Curtis, anything? Okay. Very good then. Members may also submit follow-up written questions for the record, and the hearing record will be open for 2 weeks.

Again, thanks to all the witnesses. We appreciate you being here, and we are adjourned.